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Am I overreacting? School Vent

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Re: Am I overreacting? School Vent

  • What makes me so mad about this situation is that kids today suck. They should just get up pledge their allegiance because it's the proper thing to do. I just find it hard to believe that they are completely clueless regarding that their rights were fought for. Especially since there's a war currently going on. They're in middle school and should know better.
    I'm sorry your kids are acting like little sh*ts.

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  • The point is respect.

    I went to high school with a girl who was Canadian and Muslim. We had to say the pledge and the Prayer of St. Francis every morning before announcements. She wouldn't do either, but she still stood there respectfully until we were done.
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  • Whit, you're the teacher. You're not there to entertain their laziness.

    Take the opportunity to teach them about the pledge. Do some research if you have to, and help them to understand what it means.

    Just be careful on the 'under God' part since all of the parents will come yelling at you.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_am-overreacting-school-vent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:3a5084f9-1838-4171-a30e-3c670b48492ePost:6a02db49-da34-4593-a20f-334bdd07b0dc">Re: Am I overreacting? School Vent</a>:
    [QUOTE]The point is respect. I went to high school with a girl who was Canadian and Muslim. We had to say the pledge and the Prayer of St. Francis every morning before announcements. She wouldn't do either, but she still stood there respectfully until we were done.
    Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

    I'm assuming you went to a religious school?  In that case, a student's parents agrees that there will be a certain amount of religious observance.  That's not true for a public school.  But it is important to at least be quiet and respectful while others recite it.  To require students to stand is borderline, to me. 

    I really have mixed feelings about this.  As an atheist it really irks me that the Pledge was changed to include "under God" and is taught in our public schools.  As someone leery of jingoism, the entire idea of pledging allegiance to one's country rubs me the wrong way.  I am very, very grateful and I feel very lucky to have been  born in this country, but I don't know that I "pledge allegiance" to it. 
  • Whit, tell them they are disrespecting you, their school and their country, and if they don't want to say the pledge they can march themselves down to the principal and tell their story there.
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  • I wonder if any of them have relatives or siblings that are in the military...
    The pledge is an outward profession of patriotism: loving your country, being thankful for the rights and freedoms that have been granted to us because of soldiers fighting for the privileges that we have. Maybe they need to realize that it's not just a boring recitation, but rather it's a symbol of what they have.

    Example of things/freedoms: girls wearing jeans, boys not having to join the military, not being required to be married by a certain age (15-17), being able to go to church because you like it, not because you have to, having the right to choose which church you go to, which religion to practice, the right to say the pledge because you are thankful for these freedoms, the right not to say the pledge because you simply don't want to.

    Be weary if you use that last example that even though they have the right now to say it, it is your right as their teacher to request silence from them for the 30 seconds that the pledge lasts; not because you said so, but because other students have the right to profess their allegiance to their country.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_am-overreacting-school-vent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:3a5084f9-1838-4171-a30e-3c670b48492ePost:06b6c829-9c62-4939-b95e-8e2945db7809">Re: Am I overreacting? School Vent</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Am I overreacting? School Vent : I'm assuming you went to a religious school?  In that case, a student's parents agrees that there will be a certain amount of religious observance.  That's not true for a public school.  But it is important to at least be quiet and respectful while others recite it.  To require students to stand is borderline, to me.  I really have mixed feelings about this.  As an atheist it really irks me that the Pledge was changed to include "under God" and is taught in our public schools.  As someone leery of jingoism, the entire idea of pledging allegiance to one's country rubs me the wrong way.  I am very, very grateful and I feel very lucky to have been  born in this country, but I don't know that I "pledge allegiance" to it. 
    Posted by ohwhynot[/QUOTE]

    Yes, of course. It was a private, Catholic school. Which is also how we got away with having a Canadian in our class. :-) Two, actually. Who physically lived in Canada and commuted across the border everyday. Said girl had also been in that school since age 3.

    You could argue, though, that state and federal tax dollars subsidize public schools and therefore they have MORE of a responsibility to show respect towards the government than someone at a private school.

    I definitely understand your feelings and I share some of them. (I know in Germany there are a lot of people who are very wary of excessive nationalism to this day.) I'd prefer to not argue that the country I happened to be born in is better than anyone else's, but I guess if I HAD to take sides I wouldn't pick a country that I wasn't a citizen of...
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  • I'm kind of in OWN's boat (mostly b/c of the "under God" reference).  I do think they need to be quiet and still during the recitation, whether they recite or not.  I think either sitting or standing is fine, so long as they're not working on homework or rustling through bags and whatnot.

    If I'm in a church for a wedding and there's a prayer, I sit quietly.  I generally don't bow my head or close my eyes, because that seems silly to me.  But I am most definitely quiet, still, and respectful of the people who appreciate that prayer.  They can learn to do the same. 

    And, I don't think they need to be able to articulate WHY they don't want to recite it.  If they decide later that they do, it's much more likely to be a conscious decision to do so.  And, at that age, you really can't make them think that deeply about stuff if they don't want to.  Better to teach them to be respectful now, and let them make their political/religious decisions for themselves when the time comes.
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  • Like other people said, I'd be more concerned that they're acting like shitheads in general than specifically about the pledge. They don't HAVE to say it, but they DO have to be respectful, to the pledge and the people who are saying it and to you.
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  • The rule at our school is that you must stand. Whether you choose to say the words or not is up to you, but you must stand and be quiet. There are many reasons to not say the pledge (religious/athiest, political, exchange student, etc) but they still need to be respectful during that time. To be acting up, talking, moving around, etc is completely unacceptable.

    www.youtubeloader.com is your friend Whit. You can convert youtube videos and put them on a flash like a pp said. Just make sure the video is school appropriate (obviously) and you follow all of the copyright rules for your school so you don't get in trouble.

    I really like the idea of working in a lesson on being respectful during societal norms, like the pledge of allegiance, the singing of our anthem, prayer, moments of silence, etc.
  • I'm late to this, but I'll add my two cents as a teacher.

    What is the district policy on the Pledge?  Our district requires quiet and respectful attention.  Students know that they don't have to say the Pledge, but that they are required to at least stand and be respectful.  That cuts down on some issues, since it's a school requirement.

    Second, our homerooms cycle every 4 years, so, for instance, I'll have a group of freshman this year that will be in my homeroom until they graduate.  At the beginning of this year, I'll give them a talk about why they need to be at least respectful during the Pledge and that I won't tolerate anything less.  I also make an example out of the first one to break this rule (i.e. no warnings, just a detention with me).  My age group really responds to explanations of why they should do things and, other than my first year or two teaching, I've never had an issue since. 

    I know you don't want to automatically fall back on "Because I said so", but sometimes that's the case.  You are the teacher and sometimes they have to do things just because you require it. 

    I think you're going in with the right plan tomorrow!
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_am-overreacting-school-vent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:3a5084f9-1838-4171-a30e-3c670b48492ePost:b9101b75-4c97-4eba-b3e9-c92835f605e3">Re: Am I overreacting? School Vent</a>:
    [QUOTE]They should have the option to not recite the pledge if they don't want to (conscientious objection), BUT they do not have the option to be outwardly disrespectful. You can (firmly) give them the option to either recite the pledge, or to stand up with their mouths closed, standing still and respectfully.  But those are really the only options they should have, and if they can't be respectful and behave, they should accept the responsibility of their actions.  Dani's right, it's up to you to demand their correct behavior.
    Posted by baystateapple[/QUOTE]

    Agree with this
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  • I tried to edit my post, but it wouldn't let me.  I don't necessarily think they should have to stand up for the pledge, but they should be quiet and respectful.
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  • I teach preschool in a Catholic school and we have to say it everyday at circle. We do not tolerate anyone being disrespectful. I do have a couple of boys who like to goof off and be silly during it and we are working hard on correcting it now early in the school year.
  • Another teacher chiming in:

    Eighth graders can be seriously annoying first of all.

    Re: "It's just a bunch of words!":

    Do you guys have team teaching?  If so, perhaps you could collaborate with their English teacher and/or Social Studies teacher (or, preferably, all three of you together) to come up with a lesson about the pledge. 

    That is, the English teacher could, for example, lead by doing a vocab lesson about the pledge.  A colleague does that every year and is always surprised to learn how many kids aren't familiar with the meaning of words like "allegiance" and "indivisible" or other words.

    Once they have the vocab down, the Social Studies teacher could talk with them about the history behind the crafting of the pledge, etc.  (Not being a Social Studies person, I'm being purposely vague here.).

    That way, they can make informed decisions as to whether to recite the pledge or to sit/stand quietly.  There is no third option.

    And about feeling discomfort at telling them they must do something "just because": You'll be preparing them for life, I think - not every boss is going to take the time to explain his/her motivations.  Sometimes what is, just is.
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