Down a groomsman, I think - WWYD?

NuggetBrain

So Noodle had his bachelor party up in Duluth this weekend, and he had a blast except for one incident.  Apparently his cousin, who's a groomsman and who he pretty much grew up with, hauled off and punched a good friend of his in the face for no reason at all.  Split his lip and got blood everywhere.  Cousin was drunk, of course, and the guy he punched is one of those super nice guys who everybody likes.  The guy didn't even tell anybody Cousin punched him because he didn't want to ruin Noodle's party, he just said that he ran into something and of course the drunk guys believed him. 

Sober the next day, cousin told Noodle what really happened, said that he doesn't even know why he punched the guy and that he totally didn't deserve it, apologized up and down to both Noodle and the guy he punched, but Noodle is extremely upset and wants to boot him out of the wedding party.  He told him how disappointed he was in him and that h was done with it, and so on. I talked to Noodle about it for a while, and he's really fed up with him and pretty firm on wanting him out. This cousin has had drug and alcohol issues in the past and has 2 felonies, and once got drunk at our place and pulled a knife on another guest (once again, for no good reason). 

I'm not sure if this falls under an "acceptable reason to boot someone out of the WP", but I'm kinda torn.  I know if I insist upon it, Noodle will not kick him out (but he won't be real happy about it), and he is sorry and all, but I'm kinda done with this dude too.  He's a nice guy while sober, but a total wanker when drunk and neither of us trust him not to get wasted at the wedding, especially with an open bar, and create some serious shenanigans.  Noodle flat out told him the only way he would even still be invited to the wedding is if he didn't drink at all.

louisvillebride21

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_down-groomsman-think-wwyd?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:3e6c5f54-ea83-47d9-8280-3d41054f704fPost:6335c9a8-8063-4dbb-9dee-20e4f383eb34">Down a groomsman, I think - WWYD?</a>:
[QUOTE]S<strong>I'm not sure if this falls under an "acceptable reason to boot someone out of the WP", but I'm kinda torn.</strong>  I know if I insist upon it, Noodle will not kick him out (but he won't be real happy about it), and he is sorry and all, but I'm kinda done with this dude too.  He's a nice guy while sober, but a total wanker when drunk and neither of us trust him not to get wasted at the wedding, especially with an open bar, and create some serious shenanigans.  Noodle flat out told him the only way he would even still be invited to the wedding is if he didn't drink at all.
Posted by NuggetBrain[/QUOTE]

I vote, absolutely. I'd say that's pretty high up on the list. You don't want grandma Nugget getting punched out because she got a little excited on the dance floor and accident ran into douche bag cousin.

pumpkinpumpkin

This cousin has had drug and alcohol issues in the past and has 2 felonies, and once got drunk at our place and pulled a knife on another guest (once again, for no good reason).

This really has nothing to do with the situation at-hand. Assuming this all happened before Noodle asked cousin to be a BM?

How does the other GM feel about it? Tough one.

jasmineh7777

So, you would be both kicking him out of the wedding party and not letting him attend as a guest? That sounds like it would really end the relationship. Is Noodle ready for him and his cousin to never be okay again?

danieliza1127

With only one month to go?  I don't know, that's a tough situation.  Is he really considering not even inviting the cousin?  It sounds like they need to have a serious talk about cousin's lifestyle and drinking before he makes a decision.

baystateapple

Ouch.  I'm sorry, Nugget.

If the GM is seriously contrite and agrees to not drink at the wedding, and Noodle is okay with it (it's his cousin and his GM), I would say let him stay.  If the above don't happen, then yeah, I think I'd kick him out.

That sucks that this is coming up so close to the wedding.  I'm sorry, again.

louisvillebride21

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_down-groomsman-think-wwyd?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:3e6c5f54-ea83-47d9-8280-3d41054f704fPost:fb683dc1-e51c-45d1-a3f7-79935f7aba1b">Re: Down a groomsman, I think - WWYD?</a>:
[QUOTE]This cousin has had drug and alcohol issues in the past and has 2 felonies, and once got drunk at our place and <strong>pulled a knife on another guest </strong>(once again, for no good reason). This really has nothing to do with the situation at-hand. Assuming this all happened before Noodle asked cousin to be a BM? How does the other GM feel about it? Tough one.
Posted by pumpkinpumpkin[/QUOTE]
I think it is relevent. It shows he has a history of getting violent for no reason when he's drinking. That's something you would want to prevent at your wedding, I'm assuming.

andyandhillary

I could be wrong on this, but I think it's completely legit to either boot him or ask that he stay sober for the evening. 

NuggetBrain

P2 - I know, just some background info on the fact of how he is and that this wasn't a one-time incident.  The other guy isn't a GM but is a good friend, and he (being that super nice guy) doesn't want to "create any issues". 

Jas - Noodle wants to boot him from the WP, and said the only way he could come as a guest is if he promises not to drink.  Cousin actually told Noodle during their convo that if he wanted to give his tux to somebody else he'd understand because he knows he f*cked up. 

brookelynpaisley

I think it's Noodle's deal, period. If he wants the guy out and considers this a valid reason (which I don't think he's wrong about), it's his choice. Obviously it's a cousin, so the guy's not just going to disappear, but maybe for Noodle, he needs distance from the drama. Support his choice either way.

ecsmiles

Hmm.  This is a tough one.  I think it would be an acceptable reason to kick him out - It could cause hardships in their relationship, but it sounds like cousin has taken care of creating them himself.  Its good that he's sorry, but it doesn't change the fact that he has very dangerous behavior when drinking.

I wonder how the rest of the night was.  Was the GM acting normal and having fun with everyone before/after punching the guy?  Any idea what the other GMs think of the situation?

pumpkinpumpkin

I mean that it was an issue (assuming so) before he was asked to be a GM. Noodle should've thought of that before he asked a person to stand up with him. And really...like we've said to so many other people, how many times, you can't invite someone to the wedding and ask them not to drink.

I think Noodle's going to have to be prepared to have his relationship with cousin ended.

jasmineh7777

Okay, that makes more sense.
If he is going to attend either way, then it really is about what you and your FI are comfortable with. He could stay sober as a groomsmen, or as a guest. He could also get drunk and violent as either.
Is there anyone you can designate to keep an eye on him?

Night_Sprite

If cousin understands how horrible he was and Noodle wants him not to be involved, I think you should leave it to Noodle.  It would reduce your stress and maybe give the cousin a serious wakeup call.

tidetravel

IMO, threatening (and surely inflicting) bodily injury on close friends/family is just cause to boot someone from the WP.

But, ultimately, it's Noodle's GM, so it's his choice.  I would just support him in his decision.

ETA:  If it were me, dude wouldn't even be INVITED to the wedding, and the friendship/relationship would be over.  He's had a history of violence in the past, and you cannot prevent an alcoholic from drinking, especially with an open bar.  It's also not fair to designate someone to babysit him all night.

FutureMrsTR

I think if he's going to attend, Noodle might as well leave him in the party because having him as a GM doesn't increase the likelihood that he will cause problems. 

I would either leave it and have someone keep an eye on him and have Noodle let him know that any sort of inappropriate behavior will be taken very seriously or don't invite him at all and have Noodle be prepared to have a sort of bad relationship with his cousin for awhile. 

I say "awhile" because it seems like the cousin knows he was in the wrong so I don't think they would be totally estranged forever or something.

NuggetBrain

I guess I'm jumping the gun a little because I know Noodle, and I have a feeling that he's going to ask what I thinks he should do because that's what he does when situations like this come up.  And I don't really know what to tell him.  I guess I'll stick with "Do whatever makes you comfortable, but be prepared to seriously damage your relationship with Cousin." 

Kristin789

>>Noodle is extremely upset and wants to boot him out of the wedding party.  He told him how disappointed he was in him and that h was done with it, and so on. I talked to Noodle about it for a while, and he's really fed up with him and pretty firm on wanting him out.

Noodle already told Cousin that he was done with it.
Cousin already told Noodle that he understands and he's giving up his tux.

Why are we talking about this?  It's Noodle's call, he made it, and Cousin understands and accepts this consequence of his own behavior.

And as far as wondering if Cousin will show class and manners at the wedding and reception, I would have Noodle call Cousin's parent and talk to the parent about this.  Cousin's parents have been involved with Cousin's behaviors for YEARS and YEARS, and it's Cousin's parents who should be participating in Cousin's behavior adjustments.  If he attends the wedding and reception, Cousin will be seated with his parents, who - after the conversation with Noodle - will be fully aware that they must keep an eye on Cousin and remove Cousin if he gets away from their watch and becomes uncontrollable.

NuggetBrain

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_down-groomsman-think-wwyd?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:3e6c5f54-ea83-47d9-8280-3d41054f704fPost:47804bc6-c8c1-4bba-af78-8c886147710c">Re: Down a groomsman, I think - WWYD?</a>:
[QUOTE] />>Noodle is extremely upset and wants to boot him out of the wedding party.  He told him how disappointed he was in him and that h was done with it, and so on. I talked to Noodle about it for a while, and he's really fed up with him and pretty firm on wanting him out. Noodle already told Cousin that he was done with it. Cousin already told Noodle that he understands and he's giving up his tux. Why are we talking about this?  It's Noodle's call, he made it, and Cousin understands and accepts this consequence of his own behavior. And as far as wondering if Cousin will show class and manners at the wedding and reception, I would have Noodle call Cousin's parent and talk to the parent about this.  Cousin's parents have been involved with Cousin's behaviors for YEARS and YEARS, and it's Cousin's parents who should be participating in Cousin's behavior adjustments.  If he attends the wedding and reception, Cousin will be seated with his parents, who - after the conversation with Noodle - will be fully aware that they must keep an eye on Cousin and remove Cousin if he gets away from their watch and becomes uncontrollable.
Posted by Kristin789[/QUOTE]

A) His cousin is a grown ass, 30 year old man.  I'm not going to ask his mom to spend her time at the reception watching her grown ass son because he can't get his sh*t together.  I'm not going to ruin her night.  Why the hell should she be responsible for her son at this wedding?  There comes a time when a parent can no longer run their child's life, and it's not fair to expect them to have to babysit because their kid makes stupid life choices.  This isn't a teenager here.

B) Noodle hasn't actually told his cousin he's out of the wedding.  He's told ME that he wants to kick him out, and he had an angry convo with his cousin who said he'd understand IF he kicked him out, but he hasn't done the "Dude, you're out" yet. And I have a feeling, like I said, that he's going to calm down a little bit, and ask my opinion on what to do, because he's not going to want to deal with the drama but it's still his cousin (and he has an overdeveloped sense of loyalty to people).  So that's why we'r discussing it.