And the War on Women gets more momentum

Snippylynn

I'm so effing disgusted with my home state of Michigan. This piece of garbage legislation they have just passed makes me want to revoke my state residency.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/07/michigan-abortion-bill_n_1578179.html

CN: New abortion bill makes it impossible to have an abortion after 20 weeks, including if the fetus is shown to have a major defect that would render them lifeless after delivery.
- Any clinic performing abortions is required to have a surgery on site, even if they do not perform surgical abortions.
- And then, of course, the standard "screening" to ensure no one has been coerced to have this performed.

aragx6

It's very disturbing to me that legislators think they know more than doctors do.

I read this this morning and it made me want to cry: http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/06/13/498186/michigan-anti-abortion-bill-passes-house/

Anysunrise

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_and-the-war-on-women-gets-more-momentum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:4cd99d38-5d14-441c-8333-9378323eac63Post:6fc79f72-ff1a-4280-b4c1-c2a19e6f8649">And the War on Women gets more momentum</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm so effing disgusted with my home state of Michigan. This piece of garbage legislation they have just passed makes me want to revoke my state residency. <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/07/michigan-abortion-bill_n_1578179.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/07/michigan-abortion-bill_n_1578179.html</a> CN: New abortion bill makes it impossible to have an abortion after 20 weeks, <strong>including if the fetus is shown to have a major defect that would render them lifeless after delivery</strong>. - Any clinic performing abortions is required to have a surgery on site, even if they do not perform surgical abortions. - And then, of course, the standard "screening" to ensure no one has been coerced to have this performed.
Posted by Snippylynn[/QUOTE]

<div>There is absolutely no reason for this. I can understand the others from a pro-life standpoint, but if the fetus is not going to live regardless, there is zero point in making a woman carry it to term except to be an asshole. That is seriously disturbing.</div>

Habs2Hart

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_and-the-war-on-women-gets-more-momentum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:4cd99d38-5d14-441c-8333-9378323eac63Post:b879a20b-4622-4ab3-8598-313027df07f9">Re: And the War on Women gets more momentum</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to And the War on Women gets more momentum : There is absolutely no reason for this. I can understand the others from a pro-life standpoint, but if the fetus is not going to live regardless, there is zero point in making a woman carry it to term except to be an asshole. That is seriously disturbing.
Posted by Anysunrise[/QUOTE]

I agree with this too.  Exactly as Any wrote it.

One question though, does this guy not have any women on his staff in an influential position?

pkontk

But God might resurrect the dead baby!  You don't know!

(sarcasm font, clearly).

I'm so glad I live in Mass., where my rights are protected (for now).  Shiiiiiiiit like this makes me so ragey.  I can't believe they passed it, but then again, I definitely can.

baystateapple

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_and-the-war-on-women-gets-more-momentum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:4cd99d38-5d14-441c-8333-9378323eac63Post:b879a20b-4622-4ab3-8598-313027df07f9">Re: And the War on Women gets more momentum</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to And the War on Women gets more momentum : There is absolutely no reason for this. I can understand the others from a pro-life standpoint, but if the fetus is not going to live regardless, there is zero point in making a woman carry it to term except to be an asshole. That is seriously disturbing.
Posted by Anysunrise[/QUOTE]

If a child is terminal, the decision whether or not to terminate the pregnancy should be between the parents and the doctor.  I cannot imagine carrying a fetus with anencephaly for nine months, knowing that child is going to die right after birth (or soon after).

There was a story about a woman on TB who found out that her baby's limbs were spontaneously amputating themselves, causing the baby incredible pain in the womb.  I think Steph over on SB posted it.  The story was heartbreaking.

pkontk

Also, how are you able to 'screen' for coercion?  And how can you prove whether or not you did the screening?  This is absurd.  Do they require surgeries because surgeries are more expensive to maintain and they're hoping to put planned parenthood out of business?

aragx6

That's heartbreaking Bay.

At least North Dakota voters (by a 2-1 margin) rejected their bill. It wasn't only anti-chioce but also made domestic violence against a spouse or child legal if religious reasons were cited.

adamar15

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_and-the-war-on-women-gets-more-momentum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:4cd99d38-5d14-441c-8333-9378323eac63Post:cf853cba-84da-45d8-bfc2-61e727f7d138">Re: And the War on Women gets more momentum</a>:
[QUOTE]Also, how are you able to 'screen' for coercion?  And how can you prove whether or not you did the screening?  This is absurd.  Do they require surgeries because surgeries are more expensive to maintain and they're hoping to put planned parenthood out of business?
Posted by pkontk[/QUOTE]

I think the article said there was a form women would have to fill out now.  They're not requiring surgeries, they're just requiring a surgical setup even if the clinic doesn't do surgical abortions, which is absurd.

Bay, I should never have read that story at work.  I was crying at my desk. 

Snippylynn

That's exactly what I thought too, Any. That's just plain dickish.  If you read the article, it says that there were 90 physicians and regular members of society who were gathered to speak against this bill during the hearing phase, but the committee closed it down after only hearing the pro-Life arguments. Diickish.

I was just reading through the bill, and some of the extra things I got are:
- Any miscarriage/abortion after 8 weeks is required to file a death certificate
- After 20 weeks, they have to file the death certificate and are REQUIRED to bury or otherwise inter the fetus(!).
- DOCTOR'S present for the abortion or miscarriage are REQUIRED to make the burial arrangements
- Any facility providing abortions must have a doctor on staff at all times.

That's as far as I got before my head imploded. It's just so stupid. They are apparently punishing the doctor for providing healthcare to women mby forcing them to make the burial arrangements? How insane is that??

adamar15

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_and-the-war-on-women-gets-more-momentum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:4cd99d38-5d14-441c-8333-9378323eac63Post:bc01cb99-697f-49bb-bd60-6e70bf7eb4b0">Re: And the War on Women gets more momentum</a>:
[QUOTE]That's heartbreaking Bay. At least North Dakota voters (by a 2-1 margin) rejected their bill. It wasn't only anti-chioce but<strong> also made domestic violence against a spouse or child legal if religious reasons were cited.
</strong>Posted by aragx6[/QUOTE]

What the fuuck?!

aragx6

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_and-the-war-on-women-gets-more-momentum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:4cd99d38-5d14-441c-8333-9378323eac63Post:fcf67d3a-fc8e-4b84-b9cd-dab5270870c6">Re: And the War on Women gets more momentum</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: And the War on Women gets more momentum : What the fuuck?!
Posted by adamar15[/QUOTE]

Yup, it's true. <a href="http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/abortion/232491-abortion-rights-groups-cheer-defeat-of-nd-religious-freedom-measure" rel="nofollow">http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/abortion/232491-abortion-rights-groups-cheer-defeat-of-nd-religious-freedom-measure</a>

Habs2Hart

Holy hell.  I am pro life (as we all know) but this bill pushes things way too far.  Jeeze. 

Bay - that is horrible.  My heart hurts for that lady. 

Snippylynn

Reading more:

When the woman asks about abortion, the doctor or person with them is required by law to provide them with a pictorial walk-through of what a fetus looks like at each stage of development before they make their decision.

Um, how is that not a form of coercion?

Here's the actual text:

(a) Produce medically accurate depictions, illustrations, or

 

 8  photographs of the development of a human fetus that indicate by

 

 9  scale the actual size of the fetus at 2-week intervals from the

 

10  fourth week through the twenty-eighth week of gestation. Each

 

11  depiction, illustration, or photograph shall be accompanied by a

 

12  printed description, in nontechnical English, Arabic, and

 

13  Spanish, of the probable anatomical and physiological

 

14  characteristics of the fetus at that particular state of

 

15  gestational development.

 

16        (b) Subject to subdivision (g), (e), develop, draft, and

 

17  print, in nontechnical English, Arabic, and Spanish, written

 

18  standardized summaries, based upon the various medical procedures

 

19  used to abort pregnancies, that do each of the following:

 

20        (i) Describe, individually and on separate documents, those

 

21  medical procedures used to perform abortions in this state that

 

22  are recognized by the department.

 

23        (ii) Identify the physical complications that have been

 

24  associated with each procedure described in subparagraph (i) and

 

25  with live birth, as determined by the department.

sparent2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_and-the-war-on-women-gets-more-momentum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:4cd99d38-5d14-441c-8333-9378323eac63Post:bc01cb99-697f-49bb-bd60-6e70bf7eb4b0">Re: And the War on Women gets more momentum</a>:
[QUOTE]That's heartbreaking Bay. At least North Dakota voters (by a 2-1 margin) rejected their bill. It wasn't only anti-chioce but also<strong> made domestic violence against a spouse or child legal if religious reasons were cited.</strong>
Posted by aragx6[/QUOTE]

JFC I am glad I don't live in a state where that was even considered. WTF is wrong with people?

Snippylynn

Okay, this is the actual consent form they have to sign:

"I, _____________________________ , voluntarily and

 

 5  willfully hereby authorize Dr. __________________ ("the

 

 6  physician") and any assistant designated by the physician to

 

 7  perform upon me the following operation(s) or procedure(s):

 

 8        ____________________________________________________________

 

 9  __

 

10        (Name of operation(s) or procedure(s))

 

11        ____________________________________________________________

 

12  __

 

13        A. I understand that I am approximately _____ weeks

 

14  pregnant. I consent to an abortion procedure to terminate my

 

15  pregnancy. I understand that I have the right to withdraw my

 

16  consent to the abortion procedure at any time prior to

 

17  performance of that procedure.

 

18        B. I understand that it is illegal for anyone to coerce me

 

19  into seeking an abortion.

 

20        C. I acknowledge that at least 24 hours before the scheduled

 

21  abortion I have received a physical copy of each of the

 

22  following:

 

23        1. (a) A medically accurate depiction, illustration, or

 

24  photograph of a fetus at the probable gestational age of the

 

25  fetus I am carrying.

 

26        2. (b) A written description of the medical procedure that

 

27  will be used to perform the abortion.

 

 1        3. (c) A prenatal care and parenting information pamphlet.

Lizzieyounce

I think the law goes too far!  It's cruel to make someone carry a baby to term, when you know ir's going to die at, or soon after birth.  This is coming from a pro-lifer (I don't think that abortions should be illegal, though. My view point is a personal one, I can't judge others, it's not my place. I would, if asked, counsel a mother to not abort though.)

As for the doctor on staff thing, while I don't think it's necessary to have the doctor make the burial arrangements, I can see some possible need for a physician to be present. Sometimes things go wrong (like a uterine perferation) and the patient would need a doctor pretty darn quick, at least to stablize them long enough to get them to the ER.  Although complications are rare, they do happen.

EDIT: P&R...I have to get to class. 

aragx6

Lizzie, doctors have been safely sending women home with the "abortion pill" for years quite safely.

edit: I should have said in early pregnancy to be clear. I believe you can take it up until 8 weeks.

baystateapple

So I guess it's still okay to stone your wife.  That's cool.

aragx6

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_and-the-war-on-women-gets-more-momentum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:4cd99d38-5d14-441c-8333-9378323eac63Post:9be5ff18-de8e-408d-8502-83e37f284eec">Re: And the War on Women gets more momentum</a>:
[QUOTE]So I guess it's still okay to stone your wife.  That's cool.
Posted by baystateapple[/QUOTE]

And the irony is that a lot of these are people are also crowing about the danger of Sharia law coming to this country.

Bkseller13

Coersion:  Psst, c'mon, have an abortion.  All the cool women are doing it.  You know you wanna...   Get the fluck real people.

As for the beating for religious reasons, "God told me to beat the crap out of my wife."  Glad that ND beat that one down. 

ArynBaker

I'm pro-life also but this bill is ridiculous. Why did they pick 20 weeks? That's so random to me. And I agree with Habs about the part if the baby is terminally ill, don't make the mother live with carrying her child to term just so he can die. That would be mental torture. 

SB1512

This is getting crazy.  I'm pro-choice and fully believe that the issue of abortion should not be a governmental issue at all, it's between a woman, the father of the child (if he's around) and the woman's physician.  I can see perhaps an exception for clinics performing abortions that receive government funding, but if a woman wants to have her doctor in a private practice either perform an abortion or prescribe a pill to abort, the government should have absolutely no say in this.  I find it ironic that law like this can get passed and there isn't too much screaming about rights being infringed on, and the choice of a woman doing what she wants with her body, but the Mayor of NY tries to limit the sizes of soft drinks (and snacks) possibly being sold in stores and people are up in arms about it screaming that the government is dictating what people can and can't eat and put into their bodies.  And while I do see the side of pro-life people my one question is, where are all these pro lifers going to be when a woman is forced to have a baby that she doesn't want or can't afford, etc.  Are these governmental officials going to be lining up to adopt unwanted babies, or babies that are severely mentally or physically handicaped that a women/family was required to give birth to? Doubt it.  They are only concerned that a fetus is allowd to live, seems like they couldn't give two shits about what happens after it's born.  If they did, orhpanages and foster homes wouldn't be overflowing with unwanted children, they would have been adopted by someone that was so glad they got to live instead of being aborted.  Public programs and assistance are being cut left and right so first you tell a woman she has to have her child, but then you don't offer her any means of help for supporting it.  Complete and total bullshit if you ask me

aragx6

If you don't want women to have an abortion the single best way to make sure that happens is to give them easy and cheap access to that stuff that makes you not have babies. What's it called again? Oh, that's right, BIRTH CONTROL.

pkontk

I get being pro-life from a religious standpoint, and believing that life begins at conception (I don't agree with it, but I understand the viewpoint).  But God also told us to be fruitful and multiply.  So if a woman is required to carry a terminal baby to term, that gives her less time to be able to have a healthy child that will actually live.

aragx6

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_and-the-war-on-women-gets-more-momentum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:4cd99d38-5d14-441c-8333-9378323eac63Post:3adf871e-bfe9-4f64-9dee-870a8b18a767">Re: And the War on Women gets more momentum</a>:
[QUOTE]I get being pro-life from a religious standpoint, and believing that life begins at conception (I don't agree with it, but I understand the viewpoint).  But God also told us to be fruitful and multiply.  So if a woman is required to carry a terminal baby to term, that gives her less time to be able to have a healthy child that will actually live.
Posted by pkontk[/QUOTE]

And what about when her health is in jeopardy? Most of these hard-liners don't appear to give a fuuck about that. You've got Tim Tebow crowing about how the doctors told his mother she should get an abortion and she didn't and the world is lucky enough to have a football player as amazing as him. Well I'm sure glad the doctors were wrong in this case because it could have very easily turned out differently and there would be no Tim Tebow <em>and</em> no Tim Tebow's mom. Because she'd be dead.

SB1512

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_and-the-war-on-women-gets-more-momentum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:4cd99d38-5d14-441c-8333-9378323eac63Post:af18fdbd-8a54-4c09-91a3-7593a19ea082">Re: And the War on Women gets more momentum</a>:
[QUOTE]If you don't want women to have an abortion the single best way to make sure that happens is to give them easy and cheap access to that stuff that makes you not have babies. What's it called again? Oh, that's right, BIRTH CONTROL.
Posted by aragx6[/QUOTE]

It's a good step, but it doesn't solve all the problems.  Condoms break, BC that is supposed to work 99% of the time fails.  This can happen to anyone, whether it be a teenager, college student, married women.  Some people do all they can to avoid a pregnancy and it happens anyways.  and some peole just don't want the child, and don't want to carry it to term for adoption.  I'm not saying this makes up a large percentage of abortions, but you can take every precaution against a pregnancy and it could still happen.  But ideally yes, BC should be cheap and easy to access......actually speaking of, come August, aren't a lot of forms of BC for women (pill, shot, nuva ring, even tubal ligation) supposed to be free of charge if you have insurance?  No more copays?!  I know reading last year July that it was supposed to take effect in August 2012.

mari0225

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_and-the-war-on-women-gets-more-momentum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:4cd99d38-5d14-441c-8333-9378323eac63Post:f9b3af3c-4ec1-493d-a49c-d3b4c1de8e66">Re: And the War on Women gets more momentum</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm pro-life also but this bill is ridiculous. Why did they pick 20 weeks? That's so random to me. And I agree with Habs about the part if the baby is terminally ill, don't make the mother live with carrying her child to term just so he can die. That would be mental torture. 
Posted by ArynBaker[/QUOTE]

I'm pro life as well, but oh my gosh I cannot imagine the torture of carrying and loving a baby for nine months just knowing that it's going to die during birth or shortly after. How awful!

RupertPenny

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_and-the-war-on-women-gets-more-momentum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:4cd99d38-5d14-441c-8333-9378323eac63Post:65ef7a43-05fa-4265-bcdf-d50ba8d2541a">Re: And the War on Women gets more momentum</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: And the War on Women gets more momentum : I agree with this too.  Exactly as Any wrote it. <span style="font-weight:bold;">One question though, does this guy not have any women on his staff in an influential position?</span>
Posted by Habs2Hart[/QUOTE]

Ugh this story is making me nauseous.

And as to the bolded, it is very possible that he does not. State legislators often have very small staffs. Plus I doubt many staffers would try to talk their boss out of something like this. That would be an awesome way to lose a job.

Habs2Hart

It just seems so needlessly cruel.  Too bad there isn't some sort of equal that men have to deal with, maybe he'd have a slight sliver of a heart about the matter.  You got to wonder where his head is in thinking that sort of cruelty is okay. 

pkontk

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_and-the-war-on-women-gets-more-momentum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:4cd99d38-5d14-441c-8333-9378323eac63Post:82fbe169-874a-4ebd-9b8d-5200319acb0c">Re: And the War on Women gets more momentum</a>:
[QUOTE]This is getting crazy.  I'm pro-choice and fully believe that the issue of abortion should not be a governmental issue at all, it's between a woman, the father of the child (if he's around) and the woman's physician.  I can see perhaps an exception for clinics performing abortions that receive government funding, but if a woman wants to have her doctor in a private practice either perform an abortion or prescribe a pill to abort, the government should have absolutely no say in this.  I find it ironic that law like this can get passed and there isn't too much screaming about rights being infringed on, and the choice of a woman doing what she wants with her body, but the Mayor of NY tries to limit the sizes of soft drinks (and snacks) possibly being sold in stores and people are up in arms about it screaming that the government is dictating what people can and can't eat and put into their bodies.  And while I do see the side of pro-life people my one question is, where are all these pro lifers going to be when a woman is forced to have a baby that she doesn't want or can't afford, etc.  Are these governmental officials going to be lining up to adopt unwanted babies, or babies that are severely mentally or physically handicaped that a women/family was required to give birth to? Doubt it.  They are only concerned that a fetus is allowd to live, seems like they couldn't give two shits about what happens after it's born.  If they did, orhpanages and foster homes wouldn't be overflowing with unwanted children, they would have been adopted by someone that was so glad they got to live instead of being aborted.  Public programs and assistance are being cut left and right so first you tell a woman she has to have her child, but then you don't offer her any means of help for supporting it.  Complete and total bullshit if you ask me
Posted by SB1512[/QUOTE]

Eye to eye, sister.