Wedding Etiquette Forum

Bridesmaids

So out of my 4 bridesmaids 2 are married, & the other 2 are living with their boyfriends.  One of my bridesmaids is thinking her BF is going to propose so she's already planning their wedding, I mean this literally.  And whenever I talk about the wedding it always ends up on her not even yet engaged wedding.  Then Believe it or not ever since my engagement one of my MARRIED bridesmaids has been talking about her & her husband getting remarried, they haven't even been married for 5yrs yet.  When i was trying on my wedding dresses she told my MOH "is it wrong that I'm thinking about my own wedding right now"  My MOH told her yes & that she better remember who's getting married.  So, a month later we went to pick out tuxes & invites.  This bridesmaids' husband is also a groomsmen, when figuring out who was wearing what she said right in front of me "oh honey I can't wait for our wedding" & started talking about what he should wear.  I walked away before I could get too upset & my Fiance I guess said something to her about it being our wedding right now & she can plan her remarry later.  Is it wrong of me to be getting so annoyed with her comments & trying to get attention with all the wedding stuff?  I'm not trying to sound like a brat, but she had her time as a bride, why can't I have mine? 
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Re: Bridesmaids

  • pkontkpkontk member
    500 Comments
    Honestly, people like to talk about themselves. 

    It sounds like you did the right thing walking away. 
  • Stop talking wedding with them.  There...problem solved.
  • Weddings get people thinking about weddings.  It's just what happens.  I mean, you sit in a room full of women trying on big white dresses.  You're going to think about your own wedding (past or future).  you're going to talk about it because that's what you do.

    You do sound a bit petty, actually.  No talking about weddings other than yours?  Really?

    "You can take your etiquette and shove it!" ~misscarolb
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bridesmaids-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:526038db-d50f-4302-9d0b-b00a570b0c2cPost:b1728445-6ba0-40c5-8259-d14fbc82a50f">Re: Bridesmaids</a>:
    [QUOTE]Stop talking wedding with them.  There...problem solved.
    Posted by gurrlballa10[/QUOTE]
    So I'm not supposed to talk about our wedding with the people that are in it?
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  • I understand why you are upset but the best thing you can do is just not talk about wedding stuff in front of them (aside from the wedding stuff they are involved in like BM dresses).  Its just going to annoy you more and if you say anything you'll come off as a brat (to them at least). 

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  • honestly my solution would be to stop inviting her to wedding things and stop talking about your plans with her outside of her attire and when she needs to be there.  It's pretty obnoxious of her to be doing this, but I'm guessing it would still bother you *almost* as much if she was engaged and actively planning her wedding. 

    This makes me think of the SYTTD commercial I keep seeing where the bride's friend (sister?) called "dibs" on the dress her friend likes, even though she's not engaged or seeing anyone.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bridesmaids-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:526038db-d50f-4302-9d0b-b00a570b0c2cPost:149b380d-64e2-46de-9c28-8a806f7005b0">Re: Bridesmaids</a>:
    [QUOTE]Weddings get people thinking about weddings.  It's just what happens.  I mean, you sit in a room full of women trying on big white dresses.  You're going to think about your own wedding (past or future).  you're going to talk about it because that's what you do. You do sound a bit petty, actually.  No talking about weddings other than yours?  Really?
    Posted by wadingmoose[/QUOTE]
    That's not at all what I was saying actually.  But I do think it's rude of them to talk more about their "weddings" when I'm trying to talk to them about ours that is really happening & only 3 & 1/2 months away.  I'm very supportive of them & if they really will get remarried great I'll be right there to help her.  If the other gets proposed to then yes I'll be right there to help her as well.
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  • So is she planning a vow renewal?  You keeping saying "remarried", but to me, at least, that would imply that they were married at one point, no longer are, but are going to marry each other again.

    Anyway, I could see how the commentary on her plans might get annoying, but at the same time, no one in the world cares as much about your wedding as you do.  Going to try on dresses would certainly make me think of my own wedding, not that I would make it a topic of conversation.  Her self-absorption is tactless, but so is a bride with a "ME!ME!ME!" attitude.

    If it really bothers you, maybe don't talk wedding stuff as much with them.  Yes, they're you're bridesmaids, but that doesn't mean they need to be involved in every single thing.  You'll have your time as a bride, on your wedding day, when everyone's attention is focused on you and your H.  Any attention people want to pay to your planning prior to that is pretty much gravy.
  • If you don't want them talking about theirs, no.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bridesmaids-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:526038db-d50f-4302-9d0b-b00a570b0c2cPost:145d42e9-411e-43b0-b791-0927bdc321ea">Re: Bridesmaids</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bridesmaids : That's not at all what I was saying actually.  <strong>But I do think it's rude of them to talk more about their "weddings" when I'm trying to talk to them about ours that is really happening & only 3 & 1/2 months away.</strong>  I'm very supportive of them & if they really will get remarried great I'll be right there to help her.  If the other gets proposed to then yes I'll be right there to help her as well.
    Posted by Alisha9544[/QUOTE]

    <div>
    </div><div>Sure, but in reality.  Your wedding is more important to you than it is to them...as it should be!</div><div>
    </div><div>I'd just ignore it, or not talk to wedding stuff around her.</div>
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bridesmaids-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:526038db-d50f-4302-9d0b-b00a570b0c2cPost:ff87e149-8fee-4756-8f5f-c7ec18a11ba0">Re: Bridesmaids</a>:
    [QUOTE]So is she planning a vow renewal?  You keeping saying "remarried", but to me, at least, that would imply that they were married at one point, no longer are, but are going to marry each other again. Anyway, I could see how the commentary on her plans might get annoying, but at the same time, no one in the world cares as much about your wedding as you do.  Going to try on dresses would certainly make me think of my own wedding, not that I would make it a topic of conversation.  Her self-absorption is tactless, but so is a bride with a "ME!ME!ME!" attitude. If it really bothers you, maybe don't talk wedding stuff as much with them.  Yes, they're you're bridesmaids, but that doesn't mean they need to be involved in every single thing.  You'll have your time as a bride, on your wedding day, when everyone's attention is focused on you and your H.  Any attention people want to pay to your planning prior to that is pretty much gravy.
    Posted by Carrie81677[/QUOTE]
    I suppose its a vow renewal.  They're still married.  I really am not being a mememe.  I haven't said a word except to my FI & now you girls.  Trust me they haven't really been involved in anything.  The day I picked out my dress they also picked out theirs.  Besides that I've only gotten to speak with them here & there about anything.  I just find it rude that when I call them to ask their opinion or advice about something wedding related it usually doesn't get answered & instead ends up talking about them.  I'm not an attention hog in anyway & kinda hate the spotlight. 
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bridesmaids-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:526038db-d50f-4302-9d0b-b00a570b0c2cPost:145d42e9-411e-43b0-b791-0927bdc321ea">Re: Bridesmaids</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bridesmaids : That's not at all what I was saying actually.  But I do think it's rude of them to talk more about their "weddings" when I'm trying to talk to them about ours that is really happening & only 3 & 1/2 months away.  I'm very supportive of them & if they really will get remarried great I'll be right there to help her.  If the other gets proposed to then yes I'll be right there to help her as well.
    Posted by Alisha9544[/QUOTE]

    Maybe, as your friends who are close enough to be bridesmaids, they're somewhat tired of it being all about your wedding?  I don't know what your conversations are like, but really?  These people are close enough to you to be in your wedding party.  Is it so bad to talk about their (real or imagined) weddings while planning yours?

    why would your husband tell her not to say, "I can't wait for my wedding," while shopping for tuxes?  That just seems rude.  It isn't all about your wedding and if you want your friendships to last past your wedding, you'll try to keep that in mind.

    "You can take your etiquette and shove it!" ~misscarolb
  • Its YOUR wedding, and its ok for you want the times when they are with you to plan YOUR wedding to ask for them to focus on YOUR wedding.
    I've got my own bridemaids drama where they want my wedding to be their way, and it comes down to its YOUR wedding and you need to do what you want. If they are driving you crazy, then fire them as your bidesmaids if you can't stand it. Don't become a Bridezilla or anything, but you need to discuss with them that their behavior hurts your feelings because it makes you feel like your wedding isn't important to them at all. If you can't come to an agreement with them and this is going to make your wedding day miserable then make a change now, so that you can enjoy yourself. Bridesmaids are called bridesmaids because they are supposed to assist you not annoy you with their own wedding planning.
  • I just am not sure, aside from their dress (which you said they picked out already), what you would need to call and get their opinion or advice on.  That's why I am saying stop talking wedding with them and you won't have to hear about it.
  • edited June 2012
    Yes, it is silly to be so annoyed. It is silly that they keep talking about it at inappropriate times, but heythey are way more interested in their lives than yours. Try to remember to take a step back from wedding planning and have normal conversations with your friends, too. ETA: and I think it was fairly rude for your fiance to call them out, it's not like their trying to steal your wedding day!
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  • shannyb41shannyb41 member
    Sixth Anniversary 100 Comments 25 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited June 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bridesmaids-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:526038db-d50f-4302-9d0b-b00a570b0c2cPost:68633f11-adad-48f7-86dd-ee538e88c058">Re: Bridesmaids</a>:
    [QUOTE]If you don't want them talking about theirs, no.
    Posted by gurrlballa10[/QUOTE]

    Unfortunately this is kinda true.  It sucks because you are excited about your wedding but it just makes them bring up there weddings (even the ones that don't exist yet).

    I was hanging out with a couple of my girl friends last night and one of them is a bridesmaid in my wedding.  She asked me if I thought about colors yet and I told her no (because my wedding is so far away).  After that our friend, who is not engaged, started going on and on about how she just wants a ring already and doesn't know why he's taking so long (her bf of 3 years hasn't proposed yet and she's been chomping at the bit for at least 2 years).  Then after that she started going on about her wedding ideas and stuff.  I really didn't care...I'm pretty laid back and my wedding is so far away so who cares?  But, now I know that if the word "wedding" is brought up it will open up a can of worms.  So I will refrain haha. 
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bridesmaids-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:526038db-d50f-4302-9d0b-b00a570b0c2cPost:9208f200-6a94-4405-9372-9848793e008a">Re: Bridesmaids</a>:
    [QUOTE]Its YOUR wedding, and its ok for you want the times when they are with you to plan YOUR wedding to ask for them to focus on YOUR wedding. I've got my own bridemaids drama where they want my wedding to be their way, and it comes down to its YOUR wedding and you need to do what you want. <strong>If they are driving you crazy, then fire them as your bidesmaids if you can't stand it.</strong> Don't become a Bridezilla or anything, but you need to discuss with them that their behavior hurts your feelings because it makes you feel like your wedding isn't important to them at all. If you can't come to an agreement with them and this is going to make your wedding day miserable then make a change now, so that you can enjoy yourself. Bridesmaids are called bridesmaids because they are supposed to assist you not annoy you with their own wedding planning.
    Posted by psychvet[/QUOTE]

    Oh for heaven's sake, NO.  If you want to continue to have friendships with these women, kicking them out for talking too much about themselves isn't the way to go about.  (Not that I'm saying you're planning to do this.  This is just not good advice.)
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bridesmaids-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:526038db-d50f-4302-9d0b-b00a570b0c2cPost:9208f200-6a94-4405-9372-9848793e008a">Re: Bridesmaids</a>:
    [QUOTE]Its YOUR wedding, and its ok for you want the times when they are with you to plan YOUR wedding to ask for them to focus on YOUR wedding. I've got my own bridemaids drama where they want my wedding to be their way, and it comes down to its YOUR wedding and you need to do what you want. If they are driving you crazy, then fire them as your bidesmaids if you can't stand it. Don't become a Bridezilla or anything, but you need to discuss with them that their behavior hurts your feelings because it makes you feel like your wedding isn't important to them at all. If you can't come to an agreement with them and this is going to make your wedding day miserable then make a change now, so that you can enjoy yourself. Bridesmaids are called bridesmaids because they are supposed to assist you not annoy you with their own wedding planning.
    Posted by psychvet[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>OP.  If you want to remain friends with your bridesmaids after the wedding, please for the love of all things holy, don't take this advice.</div><div>
    </div><div>I understand your irritation.  How often do you talk with your friends about things that aren't wedding related?  If it's non-stop wedding talk, I can totally understand why they aren't as into it.  Try hanging out with them and make a "no wedding talk" rule for the night.  Remember why they're your bridesmaids, and try to let their hypothetical planning go in one ear and out the other.

    </div>
  • Also, you get a wedding DAY when it is all about you. Not a wedding year...not even a wedding three and a half months!
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  • wadingmoosewadingmoose member
    5000 Comments Sixth Anniversary 25 Love Its
    edited June 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bridesmaids-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:526038db-d50f-4302-9d0b-b00a570b0c2cPost:9208f200-6a94-4405-9372-9848793e008a">Re: Bridesmaids</a>:
    [QUOTE]Its YOUR wedding, and its ok for you want the times when they are with you to plan YOUR wedding to ask for them to focus on YOUR wedding. I've got my own bridemaids drama where they want my wedding to be their way, and it comes down to its YOUR wedding and you need to do what you want. If they are driving you crazy, <strong>then fire them as your bidesmaids if you can't stand it. Don't become a Bridezilla or anything</strong>, but you need to discuss with them that their behavior hurts your feelings because it makes you feel like your wedding isn't important to them at all. If you can't come to an agreement with them and this is going to make your wedding day miserable then make a change now, so that you can enjoy yourself. Bridesmaids are called bridesmaids because they are supposed to assist you not annoy you with their own wedding planning.
    Posted by psychvet[/QUOTE]

    Firing them as bridesmaids for not talking enough about your wedding would be the definition of bridezilla.

    Bridesmaids are not chosen as "assistants."  They're supposed to be the most important people in your life who you choose to be a part of an important DAY in your life.  Assistants get paid and don't give a damn about you.  Bridesmaids should be a part of your life before AND after the wedding.

    Firing them would be counterproductive on the "friend" angle.  But good for a paid assistant.

    "You can take your etiquette and shove it!" ~misscarolb
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bridesmaids-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:526038db-d50f-4302-9d0b-b00a570b0c2cPost:9208f200-6a94-4405-9372-9848793e008a">Re: Bridesmaids</a>:
    [QUOTE]their behavior hurts your feelings because it makes you feel like your wedding isn't important to them at all.
    Posted by psychvet[/QUOTE]
     
    Yes!

    <p> I hate that this has turned into making me sound like a selfish B.  I guess if you don't know me then you don't understand.  I'm a very quite person, it takes A LOT for me to ask for help or anything for that matter.  I just thought that the girls who were so excited to be my bridesmaids  & said how much they wanted to help with stuff & do stuff with me for the wedding would actually want to.</p>
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    [QUOTE]Its YOUR wedding, and its ok for you want the times when they are with you to plan YOUR wedding to ask for them to focus on YOUR wedding. I've got my own bridemaids drama where they want my wedding to be their way, and it comes down to its YOUR wedding and you need to do what you want. If they are driving you crazy, then fire them as your bidesmaids if you can't stand it. Don't become a Bridezilla or anything, but you need to discuss with them that their behavior hurts your feelings because it makes you feel like your wedding isn't important to them at all. If you can't come to an agreement with them and this is going to make your wedding day miserable then make a change now, so that you can enjoy yourself. Bridesmaids are called bridesmaids because they are supposed to assist you not annoy you with their own wedding planning.
    Posted by psychvet[/QUOTE]

    This is REALLY bad advice.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bridesmaids-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:526038db-d50f-4302-9d0b-b00a570b0c2cPost:9208f200-6a94-4405-9372-9848793e008a">Re: Bridesmaids</a>:
    [QUOTE]Its YOUR wedding, and its ok for you want the times when they are with you to plan YOUR wedding to ask for them to focus on YOUR wedding. I've got my own bridemaids drama where they want my wedding to be their way, and it comes down to its YOUR wedding and you need to do what you want. If they are driving you crazy, then fire them as your bidesmaids if you can't stand it. Don't become a Bridezilla or anything, but you need to discuss with them that their behavior hurts your feelings because it makes you feel like your wedding isn't important to them at all. If you can't come to an agreement with them and this is going to make your wedding day miserable then make a change now, so that you can enjoy yourself. <strong>Bridesmaids are called bridesmaids because they are supposed to assist you not annoy you with their own wedding planning.</strong>
    Posted by psychvet[/QUOTE]


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  • Yup. They also don't need to accompany you to every single wedding related thing. I did most of that with just my H.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bridesmaids-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:526038db-d50f-4302-9d0b-b00a570b0c2cPost:60c3b818-ef3c-4685-8ee1-31e854d9daea">Re: Bridesmaids</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bridesmaids : Maybe, as your friends who are close enough to be bridesmaids, they're somewhat tired of it being all about your wedding?  I don't know what your conversations are like, but really?  These people are close enough to you to be in your wedding party.  Is it so bad to talk about their (real or imagined) weddings while planning yours? why would your husband tell her not to say, "I can't wait for my wedding," while shopping for tuxes?  That just seems rude.  It isn't all about your wedding and if you want your friendships to last past your wedding, you'll try to keep that in mind.
    Posted by wadingmoose[/QUOTE]
    Well I doubt that since we only talk about theirs.  I wouldn't mind them talking about it if we could also talk some about the one that we actually supposed to be working on.  He didn't tell her not to say she can't wait for their wedding, even though they're already married, he told asked her to focus on the wedding we were there picking out tuxes & invites for since they literally went off into another section when the guys were supposed to be picking out their GM tuxes.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bridesmaids-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:526038db-d50f-4302-9d0b-b00a570b0c2cPost:b3aec2c7-2423-4c52-a544-23812c3f6e20">Re: Bridesmaids</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bridesmaids :   Yes!  I hate that this has turned into making me sound like a selfish B.  I guess if you don't know me then you don't understand.  I'm a very quite person, it takes A LOT for me to ask for help or anything for that matter.  I just thought that the girls who were so excited to be my bridesmaids  & said how much they wanted to help with stuff & do stuff with me for the wedding would actually want to.
    Posted by Alisha9544[/QUOTE]

    They probably do, but at the same time, they're going to want to talk about what's going on in their lives.  And yeah, it might even mean talking about planning their weddings (again, real or imagined).  It doesn't negate your wedding.  It doesn't make your day any less special.  It just means they're people with their own lives, thoughts and interests.

    I just can't imagine looking at my friends or family and thinking, "God, I wish they'd just shut up and talk about my wedding!"  I would've been appalled if my husband had told someone to shut up about their wedding because we were shopping for our wedding.  I just can't imagine how that is ok at all.

    "You can take your etiquette and shove it!" ~misscarolb
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bridesmaids-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:526038db-d50f-4302-9d0b-b00a570b0c2cPost:5ea66494-bafc-409e-8dfe-2e40425a5fc1">Re: Bridesmaids</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bridesmaids : No she doesn't. This whole post is bullschitt.
    Posted by edielaura[/QUOTE]
     For a group about etiquette this is ridiculous.  So sorry I even asked about anything.
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  • edited June 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bridesmaids-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:526038db-d50f-4302-9d0b-b00a570b0c2cPost:b3aec2c7-2423-4c52-a544-23812c3f6e20">Re: Bridesmaids</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bridesmaids :   Yes!  I hate that this has turned into making me sound like a selfish B.  I guess if you don't know me then you don't understand.  I'm a very quite person, it takes A LOT for me to ask for help or anything for that matter.  I just thought that the girls who were so excited to be my bridesmaids  & said how much they wanted to help with stuff & do stuff with me for the wedding would actually want to.
    Posted by Alisha9544[/QUOTE]

    Being asked to be a bridesmaid is (usually) exciting.  Offering to help with wedding planning is easy.  Following through?  That's another story.  They're human, they have lives, and the stuff in their lives is always going to be more important to them than your wedding.

    I think people understand why you're annoyed; what we're trying to get across is that there's not a whole lot you can do, other than try to remove yourself from situations where this is going to be a problem, and manage your expectations of what your bridesmaids' roles actually are.

    My MOH did the least "helping" of any of my bridesmaids, because she lived the farthest away.  But she was the person that I wanted standing next to me, and that was all that really mattered.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bridesmaids-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:526038db-d50f-4302-9d0b-b00a570b0c2cPost:b2714fe0-97b6-4ed1-a845-61739375ec2b">Re: Bridesmaids</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bridesmaids :  For a group about etiquette this is ridiculous.  So sorry I even asked about anything.
    Posted by Alisha9544[/QUOTE]

    <div>Slow your roll, honey.  Edie wasn't talking about your post.  She was talking about the terrible, stupid post she had quoted.</div>
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bridesmaids-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:526038db-d50f-4302-9d0b-b00a570b0c2cPost:29c41fe8-d3fa-4a49-8bab-3ec83f88cc14">Re: Bridesmaids</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bridesmaids : Well I doubt that since we only talk about theirs.  I wouldn't mind them talking about it if we could also talk some about the one that we actually supposed to be working on.  He didn't tell her not to say she can't wait for their wedding, even though they're already married, he told asked her to focus on the wedding we were there picking out tuxes & invites for since they literally went off into another section when the guys were supposed to be picking out their GM tuxes.
    Posted by Alisha9544[/QUOTE]

    Right.  I kinda remember why I stopped giving serious advice around here.  Questions get asked.  They don't get the answer they want so they add more and more information until they get the answer they want.

    A lot of this would've been helpful in the original post.  But it wasn't there.  So now I'm sitting here thinking, "Well, hell, if you'd just said that to start with we could've avoided me thinking you're embellishing your story to make yourself look better."

    "You can take your etiquette and shove it!" ~misscarolb
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