Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?

kate51485

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:91ad7c6f-fbbf-46c9-8fbc-d81b48121cea">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions? : Here's an interjection for you.  Heifer.  Oh wait, that's not an interjection?  My bad.
Posted by cocoreo3[/QUOTE]

:eyeroll:

bbyckes

I love you guys.   Coco, I giggled.

mandybear7

bbcakes- It seems that whatever I say will clearly be misread, however, I do feel badly if you feel that I was insulting your parenting. That was not my intent, as a heifer or not.

SwedishChick2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:d91a71eb-e9a9-4974-b59a-a1dec2f69d52">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions? : :eyeroll:
Posted by kate51485[/QUOTE]
Hey back off, I don't get a lot of chances to use the word heifer, ok?  ;-)

smokeybailey

Mandybear, an interjection is a word that shows emotion.  What emotion were you hoping to convey through um?  I sense exasperation or annoyance.  That is why your um was taken with offense.  It was given with offense. 

bbyckes

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:9cb72fad-b4ff-44c1-9e94-dc8bd0ae3745">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]bbcakes- It seems that whatever I say will clearly be misread, however, I do feel badly if you feel that I was insulting your parenting. That was not my intent, as a heifer or not.
Posted by mandybear7[/QUOTE]

I didn't feel like you were insulting my parenting.  I felt like you were trying to "school" me.  It just came off wrong.  It's cool. 

mwhitson14

Also kmurr, I found myself nodding with everything you said. Glad to have a teacher posting. I'm on lunch but you are saying everything I was thinking as I was reading the responses.

**Mutley**

As a teacher, I compeltely agree with Jasimineh about it not being a teacher's place to suggest medication.  It is up to the teacher to let the parents know what is happening in the classroom with their child.  It is the teacher's duty to recognize the possibily of a disability and to make note of them.  It is then the teacher's responsibility to start a period of intervention with appropriate strategies.  The teacher can start the process for a 504 or IEP, depending on the severity of the disability.  The teacher, parents, administrators, child and doctor need to work together to develop the best plan for the child.  Beyond that, the teacher has NO place to be suggesting medication for the child.  

I do disagree with her generalization that it is the teachers who are pushing medication. 

kmurr010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:93b04b43-5eba-4e6b-8241-f4c949bddfdb">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]Also kmurr, I found myself nodding with everything you said. Glad to have a teacher posting. I'm on lunch but you are saying everything I was thinking as I was reading the responses.
Posted by mwhitson14[/QUOTE]

Thanks! It's good to know someone else agrees and is on the same page. Teaching is a hard job and it often can be confused as parenting for some people. (not anyone on here, but by parents I've had in classrooms, I'm hoping you know what I mean). I got a hilarious e-mail about a voicemail that a school in australia put on their answering machine that is so true!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwghabw4N80">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwghabw4N80</a>

mandybear7

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:16ea2a8c-cc02-4df2-9909-59e4e589d4fc">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]Mandybear, an interjection is a word that shows emotion.  What emotion were you hoping to convey through um ?  I sense exasperation or annoyance.  That is why your um was taken with offense.  It was given with offense. 
Posted by smokeybailey[/QUOTE]

Yes, I do get frustrated when the terms are used loosely. My intention of the frustration was to clear up the terms, not insult someone's parenting. 

J&K10910

Whit, sorry, but I think it's outside the expertise of a teacher to suggest a medication based on a child's behavior in school.  Do I think a teacher should make parents aware of behavioral problems?  Absolutely.  Do I think a teacher is within their rights to suggest perhaps a visit to a doctor/psychologist/psychiatrist for an analysis of things that could be causing a child's behavior problems is in order?  Sure.  But a teacher is not trained in diagnosis or treatment of disorders, thus should not be suggesting medication. 

squirrly

Lots of thoughts -

mandybear, I think bbycakes was trying to make it clear that her son has trouble paying attention, not sitting still.  Since she's a parent, and not a doctor, she used the terminology that she'd been given by the doctor.  While it's cool & all that you want to clarify what the terminology is NOW, the way beatles expressed it was much more appropriate - you made it sound like bbycakes was responsible for reading a medical manual and knowing vocab changes.  And the "um" did read as snotty.

I personally think that ADD (and/or ADHD  ) is very real, and affects a startling number of people.  However - I also think that our expectations of children to be still for long periods of time, to concentrate on a single task for long periods of time, etc., are skewed.  It's important that they learn material while in school, but they also need an outlet for all the energy they have - and that doesn't make them ADD. 
I also agree that gifted kids are often misdiagnosed.  I got in trouble for reading something other than text books in class a LOT as a kid - but I was always done with my work and bored.  I was in the gifted program in elementary school, but that was just 1 day a week - the other 4 I was in regular classes.  Middle school we just had advanced math and advanced English, which weren't all that advanced, and I was bored a lot there too. 

I do think that parents need to PARENT more.  As many of you know, I don't teach, but I do coach middle and high school athletes, and it is obvious which kids have parents that set boundaries, are active in their kids lives, and expect their kids to work for/earn their successes in life.  I have parents call and ask me how to parent their child regularly, because they see that the child respects me and follows my rules, but doesn't do the same for them.  I think if kids have structure, rules, and consequences for breaking those rules at home, it helps tremendously.  Also, I know as a kid if I got in trouble at school it was going to be even worse at home.  That's missing too. 

I do think that a teacher has the right/responsibility to make parents aware of troublesome behaviors/issues a child is experiencing in their classroom.  I think it's appropriate that they suggest a doctor's visit.  But I would not expect them to suggest medication.  Personally, I have suggested players need to see the eye doctor on several occasions, because their hand-eye coordination/depth perception seems troublesome.  I've said, "Suzie seems to be having trouble with depth perception - the eye doctor might want to take a look and consider glasses or contacts."  But I've never suggested a specific prescription. 

And, across the board, I think we turn to medicine too quickly for EVERYTHING, not just this.  And we don't re-evaluate that medicine frequently enough.  ADD, depression, headaches, even heart conditions.  My grandparents did a medicine cleanup a couple of years ago - and found out their doctors still had them on pills for conditions they hadn't had in 3 - 5 years.  Pills are easy.  Behavior changes are harder.  But they're so much more worthwhile, I think. 

SwedishChick2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:9cb72fad-b4ff-44c1-9e94-dc8bd0ae3745">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]bbcakes- It seems that whatever I say will clearly be misread, however, I do feel badly if you feel that I was insulting your parenting. That was not my intent, as a heifer or not.
Posted by mandybear7[/QUOTE]
BTW, I don't <strong>really</strong> think you're a heifer.  Sorry, I'm kind of terrible at being mean, even on a message board.  I always feel bad afterward.

AlexiaANDRobert

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:e4727ae8-41c9-4552-a897-ba96052cbf18">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]As a teacher, I compeltely agree with Jasimineh about it not being a teacher's place to suggest medication.  It is up to the teacher to let the parents know what is happening in the classroom with their child.  It is the teacher's duty to recognize the possibily of a disability and to make note of them.  It is then the teacher's responsibility to start a period of intervention with appropriate strategies.  The teacher can start the process for a 504 or IEP, depending on the severity of the disability.  The teacher, parents, administrators, child and doctor need to work together to develop the best plan for the child.  Beyond that, the teacher has NO place to be suggesting medication for the child.   I do disagree with her generalization that it is the teachers who are pushing medication. 
Posted by **Mutley**[/QUOTE]

I don't blame the teachers at all.  I don't really blame anyONE party. <strong> I think everyone wants instant gratification. </strong>(YES, I'm generalizing!)

sarabellam

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:c2a0541c-e3fa-469b-9dcf-437a083c71ff">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]It is over diagnosed and over treated, to the point of absurdity. There are some kids who genuinely benefit from the medication, <strong>but mostly it is an easy out for teachers who can't deal with large numbers of small kids</strong>.Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you, but that's fucking bullshit. Teachers have absolutely NO authority to diagnose children or prescribe medication. None, nada, zip. Do some children benefit greatly? Absolutely! Are there other courses of action to take, both behavioral and diet relatd? Sure. But to lay the blame on the teachers is grossly unfair. I'm not saying that it is entirely the parent's fault, either.

[Deleted User]

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:5115dff8-4e8c-4e5f-bd2b-346194ade514">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions? : Yes, I do get frustrated when the terms are used loosely. My intention of the frustration was to clear up the terms, not insult someone's parenting. 
Posted by mandybear7[/QUOTE]

I don't think anyone took it as an insult to her parenting. It was just as asshole-ish way to say it.

mandybear7

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:7badeb2d-31a7-4986-a289-2dcac286bf8c">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions? : BTW, I don't really think you're a heifer.  Sorry, I'm kind of terrible at being mean, even on a message board.  I always feel bad afterward.
Posted by cocoreo3[/QUOTE]

Haha, it's all good.

kmurr010

As a teacher, I would never directly say to a parent, "little jim bob is having a hard time behaving, he needs ritalin or adderall."

However, we are trained to recognize the symptoms and signs of certain issues that can hinder academic performance. That is why we play an integral role in the IEP team (Individualized Education Plan). We do not diagnose, but we can bring it to the attention of parents that "Little Jim Bob is struggling. Is anything happening at home? No?" and go from there. Teachers can push for a child to be evaluated, but I would never directly suggest a medication. I would push for a child to see someone to find out what the struggle is, though. And if that results in medication, the so be it.

squirrly

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:e6865206-8725-497e-bc42-afd0fbca8792">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions? : I don't blame the teachers at all.  I don't really blame anyONE party.  I think everyone wants instant gratification. (YES, I'm generalizing!)
Posted by AlexiaANDRobert[/QUOTE]

AB-SO-FRICKIN-LUTELY. 

Teachers, parents, doctors, even the kids - they want the easy way out, and that's perceived to be medicine. 

ETA:  Just to reinforce, from my post above - I do think medicine is warranted in some cases.  Just not all, and just not as the first choice. 

AlexiaANDRobert

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:1ffcc157-26b2-4786-a3e2-bc13a614f0c1">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]Whit, sorry, but I think it's outside the expertise of a teacher to suggest a medication based on a child's behavior in school.  Do I think a teacher should make parents aware of behavioral problems?  Absolutely.  Do I think a teacher is within their rights to suggest perhaps a visit to a doctor/psychologist/psychiatrist for a analysis of things that could be causing a child's behavior problems is in order?  Sure.  But a teacher is not trained in diagnosis or treatment of disorders, thus should not be suggesting medication. 
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

I don't think anyone should prescribe medication except a doctor.  A teacher spends A LOT more time with a child than most parents do, especially if it's a one teacher classroom and not different teachers per subject.  They see things that a parent may not see.  I do think it's their right to suggest a doctor's visit or whatever, but NOT: "Oh Jonny, is not paying attention, have you thought about Ritalin?" There is a difference.

kmurr010

Teachers often spend more time with students than their parents sometimes. We have them 7-8 hours a day for 5 days a week.  Some kids go to afterschool or daycare. Some parents have their kids at night when they sleep or on the weekends. Teachers have to be able to push for evaluation and to recognize the signs of problems because we see them the most.

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:e6865206-8725-497e-bc42-afd0fbca8792">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions? : I don't blame the teachers at all.  I don't really blame anyONE party.  I think everyone wants instant gratification. (YES, I'm generalizing!)
Posted by AlexiaANDRobert[/QUOTE]

Yes, sometimes medication is used as instant gratification.  But for many people with psych disorders, medication is sometimes necessary (IMO) to get them to a point where they can even TRY to start making long term changes.  I am all for not using meds as a quick fix, but if a kid can't even focus long enough to do a 10 minute math assignment, how are they supposed to focus enough to figure out what changes they need to make, how to make them, and put forth the effort TO make them?  I like to think of medication as a vehicle that gets you to your final destination.  Could you walk from NYC to LA?  Well...yeah, depending on how you go about it.  Is it practical at ALL, or even plausible for many people? 

For example, take depression.  Some people deep in depression need a little something to get them to the point of being not depressed enough for therapy to be useful. 

beatlesgirl25

What I think is shitty is after the diagnosing stuff is all said and done, then the treatment all falls on the teacher alone. My dad teaches 6th grade and currently has 30+ rowdy kids in each class, many of them with special needs, IEPs, etc. And he has no help, no paras, nothing. It's just wrong and not fair to the kids or to him. The diagnosis/IEP part is supposed to be the beginning of the kid's treatment, not the end of it.

squirrly

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:7e28d443-3df7-4282-b70c-518476f473a0">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions? : Yes, sometimes medication is used as instant gratification.  But for many people with psych disorders, medication is sometimes necessary (IMO) to get them to a point where they can even TRY to start making long term changes.  I am all for not using meds as a quick fix, but if a kid can't even focus long enough to do a 10 minute math assignment, how are they supposed to focus enough to figure out what changes they need to make, how to make them, and put forth the effort TO make them?  I like to think of medication as a vehicle that gets you to your final destination.  Could you walk from NYC to LA?  Well...yeah, depending on how you go about it.  Is it practical at ALL, or even plausible for many people?  For example, take depression.  <strong>Some people deep in depression need a little something to get them to the point of being not depressed enough for therapy to be useful. 
</strong>Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

This is true sometimes.  But, often, the people who just need a little help are put on meds and it's YEARS before anybody tries to get them off the meds.  A little help shouldn't turn into a decade of pills just because it's easy. 

AlexiaANDRobert

I also think teachers are used as substitutes for parents.

My mom teaches 4 year olds, and sometimes the parents will actually say: "How do you get them to listen? They never do what I tell them to!" while the kid is STANDING RIGHT THERE!!!

My mom face palms on a regular basis.  I'm NOT saying she is perfect, but IMO parents are afraid of / don't know how to / have trouble with parenting and then start laying the blame on other parties.

Everyone should be working together.

I'm just amazed at how much emailing and websites and all the crap parents do with teachers to get their kid's work done.

I had a planner, I wrote down my assignments and did them.  My parents "spot checked" kind of like pop quizzes, but it wasn't a hand holding experience.  I'm just amazed at how things have changed.

**Mutley**

Alexia, I never thought that was your point of view.  I think that your OP has several different components coming together and people have all sorts of different opinions based on their backgrounds and experiences.  You have parents, teachers, psychologists, and others weighing in on a topic that can be very charged.  It has been very interesting for me to read. 

I do think that sometimes teachers are lazy or complacent.  I've seen lots of them.  Especially now that I am out of the classroom and doing teacher trainings.  I see them in the hallways at conferences. I see them doing all of the behaviors that they tell their students not to do.  If you want truly bad students, teach teachers.  

ETA: I am really slow at responding today.  This was in reference to your earlier post.

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:2d4ebdb4-02a4-43b3-977b-dd93f6353424">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions? : This is true sometimes.  But, often, the people who just need a little help are put on meds and it's YEARS before anybody tries to get them off the meds.  A little help shouldn't turn into a decade of pills just because it's easy. 
Posted by squirrly[/QUOTE]

I agree with this, but my personal opinion is that it's sad that the fact that many people don't care to try to make the long term changes detracts from the people that might actually require the medication to help them make the long term changes.

mwhitson14

Sorry, just got a second to respond. Kids are in music, 3rd activity of the day. This school has a lot of activities! I'm sorry, I don't mean that I'm qualified to suggest medication. I personally will never go there with a parent, just because I'm much more willing to try other methods first. I didn't come off the way it did. I would never say, Go get your kid some ritalin. I just mean, I don't think it hurts to say, we've tried a, b, and c with the student, have you seen a doctor about the issues? A lot of the times they're supposed to be taking something and the teacher might not even know it, unless we ask. And as I've said before in other posts, I have a pretty limited experience with ADHD. What about after several intervention methods and things still aren't getting any better? Then is it ok to suggest seeing a doctor about medicine?

smbrend

I will apologize in advance if this has already been said because I haven't yet read all the replies.  I work as a therapist, and I agree that ADHD is over-diagnosed.  I also believe that there are kids with behavioral issues that are a result of, or exacerbated by, bad parenting, and they are diagnosed with ADHD when that is truly not the issue.  I try to work with parents on behavioral interventions and most of the time I get. absolutely. nowhere.  While I don't like that the meds are overprescribed, if the medication helps the child be more successful in school and get yelled at less at home, I guess I can't be completely against it.

Do the kids always need the medication?  Probably not.  Is it worth it to give it to them to help them succeed because their shitty parents won't do anything else about it to help?  Maybe.

AlexiaANDRobert

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:97af1446-6c55-4b27-845c-6f8e67c65e7b">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]Alexia, I never thought that was your point of view.  I think that your OP has several different components coming together and people have all sorts of different opinions based on their backgrounds and experiences.  You have parents, teachers, psychologists, and others weighing in on a topic that can be very charged.  It has been very interesting for me to read.  I do think that sometimes teachers are lazy or complacent.  I've seen lots of them.  Especially now that I am out of the classroom and doing teacher trainings.  I see them in the hallways at conferences. I see them doing all of the behaviors that they tell their students not to do.  If you want truly bad students, teach teachers.   
Posted by **Mutley**[/QUOTE]

Which one?  I'm lost... which point of view are you referring to? I have too many on this topic...