Interesting discussion

kikibaby

So... I was lurking on another board and there's a very interesting conversation going on.  Let's discuss:

A woman and her husband are seperating because they are unable to have children.  She wants a baby more than anything, and they've been trying for 5 years.  She is perfectly healthy and fertile, but he has some issues with his sperm.  They are both against adoption or sperm donors, and they are not willing to spend the money on IVF because it has only a small chance of working for them.  According to her they are still very much in love- but she is bitter and he wants her to be happy.

WDYT?  I'm not linking to the original post because I don't mean to mock her situation.  I just find it to be a really interesting discussion topic.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

I think that's sad.  If I wanted to be a mother that badly I'd explore any option I could with Ben - adoption, IVF, whatever.  I know that some women want to be mothers more than anything and I don't judge that - I just don't think that leaving her husband, that she still loves, is the right way to go.  I can't imagine raising a family with anyone else other than my FI.  She wants a child more than she wants the relationship with her husband?  ...Interesting, indeed.

kikibaby

To add and answer some questions:

They discussed it before marriage.  They both said that if they couldn't have children together, they'd get divorced, because it was her deal breaker.

He had a vasectomy reversed and the doctor said everything looked great and she should be pregnant within a year.

andy71781

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-discussion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:6143a652-b10c-410d-9982-84fe586e6a01Post:6fa5c4c9-ccc5-462f-b2c3-986d0d1eb8ab">Re: Interesting discussion</a>:
[QUOTE]I<strong> just watched the movie "Up" last night with FI, that sort of touches on the infertility thing (in the first 10 minutes, so I'm not ruining anything). </strong>I wouldn't judge, but I can't imagine throwing in the towel with FI if I found out he was infertile.  It took me so long to find someone that I was so completely compatible with...I don't think I would ever find someone else that I am this close to, this happy with...and more than that, I wouldn't want to look anymore.  I would adopt, or IVF, or something, before throwing it all in.
Posted by baystateapple[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure I've never cried so hard during a part of a movie before. 

baystateapple

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-discussion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:6143a652-b10c-410d-9982-84fe586e6a01Post:1374151e-cc13-48a8-9ced-a1ea96b11780">Re: Interesting discussion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting discussion : I'm pretty sure I've never cried so hard during a part of a movie before. 
Posted by andy71781[/QUOTE]

Ditto this.  It's my favorite Disney movie, bar none, but it makes me cry like crazy.

apple_green

That's so extreme! How good are her chances that she immediately finds a new husband who's willing to knock her up? This is weird. I wouldn't divorce my husband if we couldn't get pregnant. We'd try everything we could to get pregnant, and adopt if that wasn't possible. I don't get not being open to adoption or sperm donors, but being open to divorce

ThePinkSuperhero

So I guess there's was just a "for better" marriage?  Hey, if that's how you want to roll, that's your life, I guess.

kikibaby

It seems to me like the bigger problem is the toll that the infertility problems are having on their marriage.  It's not just about the baby at this point.  I'm sure he is feeling like a failure of a man/husband, which has beat him down to the point that he'd rather just let her go.  He probably feels like he is holding her back in life, and is tired of seeing her sad all the time.

shaydenise

I think this is really sad...  We probably won't be able to have children naturally because of past medical history and I couldn't imagine giving up US because of that.  We both want kids one day, but for us it doesn't matter if they are our biological children or not...  But then again we've talked about it in depth and know exactly which route we would want to take when that time comes.

I guess I just can't relate to wanting to be a mother so bad you'd give up your husband if he was infertile.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-discussion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:6143a652-b10c-410d-9982-84fe586e6a01Post:fd804a54-d7d7-442b-b35a-20a432395193">Re: Interesting discussion</a>:
[QUOTE]To add and answer some questions: <strong>They discussed it before marriage.  They both said that if they couldn't have children together, they'd get divorced, because it was her deal breaker.</strong> He had a vasectomy reversed and the doctor said everything looked great and she should be pregnant within a year.
Posted by kikibaby[/QUOTE]

To me this part makes it sound like her priorities are strange.  Sounds like she wants a baby more than she wants a husband.  She obviously doesn't care who she's married to, what really matters is if she gets a baby.

strlzfan11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-discussion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:6143a652-b10c-410d-9982-84fe586e6a01Post:fd804a54-d7d7-442b-b35a-20a432395193">Re: Interesting discussion</a>:
[QUOTE]To add and answer some questions: They discussed it before marriage.  They both said that if they couldn't have children together, they'd get divorced, because it was her deal breaker. He had a vasectomy reversed and the doctor said everything looked great and she should be pregnant within a year.
Posted by kikibaby[/QUOTE]

I still think it's wrong.  Anytime a man has had a vasectomy there is no guarantee the reversal surgery will work.  I'm sorry, but that just makes her sound like such a bitch to me.

iamjoesgurl

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-discussion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:6143a652-b10c-410d-9982-84fe586e6a01Post:fd804a54-d7d7-442b-b35a-20a432395193">Re: Interesting discussion</a>:
[QUOTE]To add and answer some questions: <strong>They discussed it before marriage.  They both said that if they couldn't have children together, they'd get divorced,</strong> because it was her deal breaker. Posted by kikibaby[/QUOTE]

I won't go into details because I've been flamed before here for it, but one of us wants children and the other doesn't.  However, we love each other so much that the issue of children does not define our marriage.  We will not have children and we will not get divorced over it.  As pps said, "for better or for worse".

I think the key here though is that they talked about it before marriage and clearly did not mean the "for better or for worse" (if they even included that in the vows).  So now they are doing what they planned before they got married, right?

mandapanda78

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-discussion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:6143a652-b10c-410d-9982-84fe586e6a01Post:ece2ec8b-8419-4ef4-8fe3-ce35b35b90a2">Re: Interesting discussion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting discussion : To me this part makes it sound like her priorities are strange.  Sounds like she wants a baby more than she wants a husband.  She obviously doesn't care who she's married to, what really matters is if she gets a baby.
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Agreed.

</div>

kikibaby

Don't we all have our dealbreakers, though?  We all take those vows, but you know you have some THING that would make you want to leave.

KatyRoseM

I'm more ok with it if they talked about it first, though its still weird. 

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

Personally, it wouldn't matter to me. But then again, there are very different circumstances in my relationship. While FI and I both want children, we want to be with each other more. So if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. I was actually on the fence about kids before I met FI. We're also very pro-adoption and if we couldn't get pregnant for a few years, we'd look into adopting, for sure.

It sounds like she wants to use someone as basically a "sperm doner" vs. having children as part of a healthy relationship. I certainly know people who get married BECAUSE they want to have children and need someone to partner with, but I'm not in favor of that. At all.

At the same time, if she's truly unhappy and not having kids is a deal breaker, it will take a toll on her relationship. Looks like it already has.

mandapanda78

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In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-discussion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:6143a652-b10c-410d-9982-84fe586e6a01Post:2ae218df-2be3-4f94-80d6-f65ae0ed479a">Re: Interesting discussion</a>:
[QUOTE]Don't we all have our dealbreakers, though?  We all take those vows, but you know you have some THING that would make you want to leave.
Posted by kikibaby[/QUOTE]

<div>Yeah, but for me my dealbrakers are that my husband breaks the vows. As in, he cheats, he hits me, etc. Other than that... I don't have dealbreakers. He can get hairy, or fat or smelly or sick and I'm sticking around. Heck, he can even wear a kilt like this and I'll stick with him! (I totally just wanted to AW Mr Panda in a kilt.)</div>

akhensley81

I think that's really sad, but I don't really understand it. If they (I'm guessing both) want a child so bad, and have no other biological options, why are they so badly against adoption? I agree that it seems her priorities are a little off. Or maybe just misguided.

I don't understand why anyone is against adoption, personally. But that's besides the point. And likely has something to do with the fact that I was adopted as an infant.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

Yeah, dealbreakers - we've all got them.  But if you have a dealbreaker you gotta get this stuff figured out before you get married, right!?  I guess most people don't go and get checked for fertility before they get married.  But jeez.

The part that makes me think its strange is that she's stopping at trying naturally.  She won't consider adoption, sperm donors or IVF.  So how bad does she want a baby?  Bad enough to leave her husband so she can try again with someone else.  But she won't explore other options with her husband, which makes it sound like she doesn't want it THAT bad.  So she needs this baby, but she's picky about how its made.

I just keep trying to put myself in my shoes and I can't imagine that I'd be lucky enough to find someone I love as much as or more than I love Ben, and that he'd be more fertile.  It's just weird. 

[Deleted User]

I didn't read all of her posts or the flaming, but I have to say that I really dislike her sig pic. Not that it matters, but I can't take her seriously with it.

I agree with the PPs saying that there is more to the story. If I read it right, they got married after a year of dating, and they clearly needed more time to get their shiit sorted out. I don't understand why they're so against other options and are willing to just call it quits with no guarantees that she'll even be a mother after that.

The whole situation is sad because if they do still really love each other, then divorce shouldn't be their answer. I hope they make the decision that's best for them, and based on the right reasons.

Wrkn925

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-discussion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:6143a652-b10c-410d-9982-84fe586e6a01Post:faa4b1d1-af88-4903-9dc1-4e232e8dd3e5">Re: Interesting discussion</a>:
[QUOTE]It sounds like A) she now resents her husband since he couldn't "uphold his end of the bargain", B) she doesn't take marriage seriously, and C) she thinks she wants a baby more than anything. But if she wanted a baby more than anything and took her marriage seriously, she'd find a way to make it work WITHIN her marriage.  <strong>I'm judging her selfishness.  
</strong>Posted by georgia_bride09[/QUOTE]
 
touche'.

kikibaby

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-discussion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:6143a652-b10c-410d-9982-84fe586e6a01Post:cef99b1e-edf3-4590-9b39-b07b4f29210e">Re: Interesting discussion</a>:
[QUOTE]This couple needs counseling. Their issues run deeper than just current infertility.
Posted by georgia_bride09[/QUOTE]

Yes, absolutely.

Mofongo

I read the whole thing. If your husband cannot have children and HE is not willing to adopt or use sperm donors, I can totally see how that could be a dealbreaker. I definitely think they need therapy, but I can understand wanting out for that. I agree, it all seems strange, but she was very open.

mandapanda78

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-discussion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:6143a652-b10c-410d-9982-84fe586e6a01Post:a232fb33-c370-46ce-b8a4-3a10e96c1e00">Re: Interesting discussion</a>:
[QUOTE]I can't judge the lady in mention.  I feel like I don't know enough.<strong> But Mr Panda can totally rock a kilt.</strong>
Posted by Wrkn925[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Heehee, thanks! 

</div>

kikibaby

I think my biggest question is- how does she know that leaving him will make any difference?  I'm sure she's a great girl, but it personally took me about 15 years of dating to find someone I wanted to marry/have children with.  So, isn't it possible it will take an awfully long time to find that AGAIN? 

Beachy730

Is there really a way to ever know a woman is completely healthy to carry a baby?  There are many tests to determine if you can produce eggs and become pregnant, but carrying a pregnany to full term is another story.  What if this woman now leaves her husband to find someone to impregnate her, and finds out she is unable to carry a baby to full term?  Then she has no husband and no natural child.

I have a big family with lots of pregnancies and I feel like I've seen it all.  I had an aunt who had to give herself injections everyday while pregnant because of how many miscarriages she had.  I had a close friend be told by her dr that she would never be able to concieve, and she got pregnant the first month they tried.  And I also have an aunt who went through 3 rounds of IVF, practically depleting their life savings.  I saw the toll it took on her, and how upset she was going into the 3rd and final round because the dr told her if it didn't work that time then it was never going to work.  Luckily her prayers were answered and the IVF worked the 3rd time and they have a healthy 2 year old now.  But it was a very emotional, expensive road.

I don't know, I also don't have such a strong urge to have children of my own that i would leave H for it.  However, it does make me think that it is a good excuse to leave him if there was other issues going on.  I'm not saying I would use it, I mean this woman.

Belle2Be

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-discussion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:6143a652-b10c-410d-9982-84fe586e6a01Post:a232fb33-c370-46ce-b8a4-3a10e96c1e00">Re: Interesting discussion</a>:
[QUOTE]I can't judge the lady in mention.  I feel like I don't know enough. But Mr Panda can totally rock a kilt.
Posted by Wrkn925[/QUOTE]

This. Both parts :)

I'm not going to say I think its sad, I don't, really.  Motherhood is her dealbreaker, just like cheating or abuse are others. Everyone has their priorities, and it sounds like they were discussed before marriage, so it's their deal.  Adoption isn't for everyone, so I can't really judge her for not wanting to go that route.

Belle2Be

Sorry, serial poster, but does IVF work if its the Mans "fault" and not the womans?

kikibaby

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-discussion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:6143a652-b10c-410d-9982-84fe586e6a01Post:e9a57cc1-7e7b-43e0-a862-f338354b97f9">Re: Interesting discussion</a>:
[QUOTE]Sorry, serial poster, but does IVF work if its the Mans "fault" and not the womans?
Posted by Belle2Be[/QUOTE]

I don't know much about IVF, but she said if they did it, they have something like less than 10% chance of it taking.  So yeah, I have no idea.

noodle_oo

Wow, this is nuts. 

All I can think about is if a man said he was divorced his wife because she was barren, people would be outraged over how he was treating his wife.  This is the same thing, but in reverse.

However, none of us can really jugde the situation.  He knew it was a deal breaker going into it.  She's just doing what she has to do for herself.  I don't agree with her, but it is her life and if she wants a baby that badly...

Infertility is a horrible fear of mine.  I have several friends who have gone through IVF (2 successfully on the first try!), but it sounds awful.  I'm so afriad that when DH and I are ready, we'll have problems.  But I'd never leave DH.  He's my perfect match, and we can always adopt. 

Birdie1483

From the little I know about IVF, a man goes to the bathroom to do his thing and bring out his little fighters. Then a woman goes through a procedure to extract her eggs. They put them together in a Petri dish and then after a 3-6 day period they implant them into her uterus. If he had a vasectomy, I could see how he wouldn't be producing enough fighters for it work.

I haven't read the OP and from what I've seen here, it's hard for my not to have my judgy pants on. I feel like neither one of them are taking this marriage seriously. We all have out dealbreakers, but I feel like this would be something that could and SHOULD have been talked about before their said I Do. She knew going into the marriage that he might not be able to have biological kids and she decided to marry him anyways. And I can't believe that he never mentioned anything about his beliefs towards adoption until after the wedding.

RE: people who don't like adoption, that is the part that fascinates me. It sounds like dude has some trust issues or something, but I've read up on people and groups that are anti-adoption. I came across them when googling Caitlyn and Tyler from Teen Mom. They're all conspiracy theorists and believe that a child should be with the birth family, no matter how horrible the conditions are. They also feel like there is a conspiracy where people talk moms into giving up their babies so other people can have babies (like stealing them) or society just doesn't think those type of people should be moms or something. The website I found was so strange it's hard for me to even paraphrase what they thought..