My first RSVP debacle, subbing a DH with someone deliberately left out.

chattychiqa

MIL remains close with a friend she's had since high school.  Their kids are about the same age.  We invited MIL's friend and her husband; FI is friends with one her 3 kids, and that's the only one we invited (with her husband too).  The kids are all adults....25+ years old. 

We got an RSVP from the 1 he's friends with today...again, it was addressed to her and her husband.  Her RSVP said "DH is having oral surgery that week.  If he can't make it, my brother will come in his place."  Ordinarily, numbers are numbers and I alotted to have this woman and her husband come, so it's not the money...BUT...

1-I'm worried about where this puts the 3rd adult child, seeing that her 2 siblings are coming.  Giving her an invitation at this point is not an option, it's rude and 2nd tier, we aren't doing that at all.  I'd prefer to leave well enough alone.

2-I don't know how else to say this, but FI doesn't like this guy and I get a creepy vibe from him.  It's been swept under the rug, and FI only told me because I entered the relationship with kids and sometimes when MIL hosts parties, this family is there, but he was sexually abused as a child and has been, eh, odd in the company of children.  He told me this so that I would know to watch my kids around him.  Nobody has left their kids alone with him, so I can't say with certainty that he has or would do anything inappropriate, but my creepometer was through the roof even before FI told me this. 

It's a relatively big venue with a huge grassy backyard where dinner is taking place and dancing inside the historic mansion.  I suppose I can designate a family member to keep an eye on my kids (9 and 8, maybe my 14 year old can do this), but I worry about where that puts other guests' kids. I would hope that nothing would happen, but there is plenty of space and opportunity. I just have an awful feeling about this. 

So FI could call his friend and say something, but that may cause problems.  We could ask MIL to address it, she's pretty awesome that way, but I don't want to cause a rift in their friendship and her kids are all adults, so it's really not her place.  Or we could allow her to bring her creepy brother who was deliberately left out and I could worry all night about the decision I've made.

It's a craptastic situation all the way around and I'd really appreciate some feedback.

HandBanana

Is there a way to ask MIL for advice without her intervening?  I ask because she knows the family best and may know more than you think about the "creepy" brother.

Sorry.  Not much advice other than that. 

RebeccaB88

I just think you'd be within your rights to tell her that the invitation is only for her and her husband, and you're sorry you cannot accomodate the brother.  No explanation is necessary, and she would be out of line to press the issue.

EK2013

It seems pretty clear that unless the invitation says "and Guest" it's only meant for those whose names are on it.

Someone needs to call this woman and say something like, "We're hoping [your husband] will be well enough to attend, and if it turns out that he's not, please let us know when he decides that it will just be you." If she mentions that she intends to bring her son, this someone can mention to her that guest decisions were made thoughtfully and deliberately--that you are happy to reserve a dinner for her husband, but you cannot accept any alterations to the guest list. If MIL is willing, that's fine. If not, it falls to you and your FI. Good luck!

lauraanne9

Wow.  

I would say call and tell them the guest list, unfortunately, is not flexible as it was planned intentionally.  I say this as you need to make sure you treat all "RSVP Offenders" equally.  If you are going to allow some people to switch out guests, you are going to have to let all of them.  In my case, we are not having kids at our ceremony or reception.  If one person writes in a child and we let it go, we have to let the next person do the same thing, which creates space issues.  So, we have to treat all the same and say "no" to all additions and changes in order to keep it fair.

kmmssg

If I were your FMIL I would be more than willing to sit down and have this chat with you and FI on how to proceed.  It's not just a case of "he's wierd", this is a case of having to watch out for kids and we all know what can happen in the blink of an eye.

You are great for wanting to keep fmil out of it for the sake of her friendship with this guy's mom, but I think she could be a great source of ideas for how to handle this.  If I were her, I'd hope you guys would come to me and let me help or at least offer some suggestions.

seesawgirl

I agree with everything the previous posters said, but if for whatever reason you do have to allow him to attend DO NOT have your 14 year old do this. They may be mature for their age, they might be forewarned, they might have done well in the past. But even a mature 14 year old would be easy to distract, especially if they were to get resentful of being saddled with 2 children while everyone else is dancing and having a good time. Also, something to think about, a 14 year old is still a "child" and would still be susceptible to the very thing that you are trying to prevent happening to the younger ones. I would suggest if you attend church, maybe trying to offer some cash to one of the children's ministry workers, or some other adult in your child's life that wouldn't normally be invited, to keep an eye on things. You would probably need to explain the situation, just so that they know which person to keep an eye on. Once again, I still think that the best thing is to not allow him to come.

Mmoray

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_my-first-rsvp-debacle-subbing-a-dh-with-someone-deliberately-left-out?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a22354da-2d66-4baf-91b0-d9c27750c292Post:4c343598-8c05-438e-8a0b-0253f1323b71">My first RSVP debacle, subbing a DH with someone deliberately left out.</a>:
[QUOTE]MIL remains close with a friend she's had since high school.  Their kids are about the same age.  We invited MIL's friend and her husband; FI is friends with one her 3 kids, and that's the only one we invited (with her husband too).  The kids are all adults....25+ years old.  We got an RSVP from the 1 he's friends with today...again, it was addressed to her and her husband.  Her RSVP said "DH is having oral surgery that week.  If he can't make it, my brother will come in his place."  Ordinarily, numbers are numbers and I alotted to have this woman and her husband come, so it's not the money...BUT... 1-I'm worried about where this puts the 3rd adult child, seeing that her 2 siblings are coming.  Giving her an invitation at this point is not an option, it's rude and 2nd tier, we aren't doing that at all.  I'd prefer to leave well enough alone. 2-I don't know how else to say this, but FI doesn't like this guy and I get a creepy vibe from him.  It's been swept under the rug, and FI only told me because I entered the relationship with kids and sometimes when MIL hosts parties, this family is there, but <strong>he was sexually abused as a child</strong> and has been, eh, odd in the company of children.  <strong>He told me this so that I would know to watch my kids around him</strong>.  Nobody has left their kids alone with him, so I can't say with certainty that he has or would do anything inappropriate, but my creepometer was through the roof even before FI told me this.  It's a relatively big venue with a huge grassy backyard where dinner is taking place and dancing inside the historic mansion.  I suppose I can designate a family member to keep an eye on my kids (9 and 8, maybe my 14 year old can do this), but I worry about where that puts other guests' kids. I would hope that nothing would happen, but there is plenty of space and opportunity. I just have an awful feeling about this.  So FI could call his friend and say something, but that may cause problems.  We could ask MIL to address it, she's pretty awesome that way, but I don't want to cause a rift in their friendship and her kids are all adults, so it's really not her place.  Or we could allow her to bring her creepy brother who was deliberately left out and I could worry all night about the decision I've made. It's a craptastic situation all the way around and I'd really appreciate some feedback.
Posted by chattychiqa[/QUOTE]

<div>You're well within your rights to specify that the invitation was not for him.</div><div>
</div><div>But I think you should know that how you're judging him as a person is completely unfair. Someone cannot help that they were abused...and only the minority of sexual abuse victims go on to commit such abuses themselves. </div><div>
</div><div>My FI was abused (sexually, physically, emotionally) as a child, and he came out of that experience knowing just what he didn't want to be like. It's unfair and hurtful that you would assume you needed to watch your children around this guy just because he has been victimized. </div><div>
</div><div>I realize you get the creepy vibe too, but I just thought you should know how your judgements affect other people, </div>

Mmoray

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_my-first-rsvp-debacle-subbing-a-dh-with-someone-deliberately-left-out?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a22354da-2d66-4baf-91b0-d9c27750c292Post:4c343598-8c05-438e-8a0b-0253f1323b71">My first RSVP debacle, subbing a DH with someone deliberately left out.</a>:
[QUOTE]MIL remains close with a friend she's had since high school.  Their kids are about the same age.  We invited MIL's friend and her husband; FI is friends with one her 3 kids, and that's the only one we invited (with her husband too).  The kids are all adults....25+ years old.  We got an RSVP from the 1 he's friends with today...again, it was addressed to her and her husband.  Her RSVP said "DH is having oral surgery that week.  If he can't make it, my brother will come in his place."  Ordinarily, numbers are numbers and I alotted to have this woman and her husband come, so it's not the money...BUT... 1-I'm worried about where this puts the 3rd adult child, seeing that her 2 siblings are coming.  Giving her an invitation at this point is not an option, it's rude and 2nd tier, we aren't doing that at all.  I'd prefer to leave well enough alone. 2-I don't know how else to say this, but FI doesn't like this guy and I get a creepy vibe from him.  It's been swept under the rug, and FI only told me because I entered the relationship with kids and sometimes when MIL hosts parties, this family is there, but <strong>he was sexually abused as a child</strong> and has been, eh, odd in the company of children.  <strong>He told me this so that I would know to watch my kids around him</strong>.  Nobody has left their kids alone with him, so I can't say with certainty that he has or would do anything inappropriate, but my creepometer was through the roof even before FI told me this.  It's a relatively big venue with a huge grassy backyard where dinner is taking place and dancing inside the historic mansion.  I suppose I can designate a family member to keep an eye on my kids (9 and 8, maybe my 14 year old can do this), but I worry about where that puts other guests' kids. I would hope that nothing would happen, but there is plenty of space and opportunity. I just have an awful feeling about this.  So FI could call his friend and say something, but that may cause problems.  We could ask MIL to address it, she's pretty awesome that way, but I don't want to cause a rift in their friendship and her kids are all adults, so it's really not her place.  Or we could allow her to bring her creepy brother who was deliberately left out and I could worry all night about the decision I've made. It's a craptastic situation all the way around and I'd really appreciate some feedback.
Posted by chattychiqa[/QUOTE]

<div>You're well within your rights to specify that the invitation was not for him.</div><div>
</div><div>But I think you should know that how you're judging him as a person is completely unfair. Someone cannot help that they were abused...and only the minority of sexual abuse victims go on to commit such abuses themselves. </div><div>
</div><div>My FI was abused (sexually, physically, emotionally) as a child, and he came out of that experience knowing just what he didn't want to be like. It's unfair and hurtful that you would assume you needed to watch your children around this guy just because he has been victimized. </div><div>
</div><div>I realize you get the creepy vibe too, but I just thought you should know how your judgements affect other people, </div>

malakelle

  I was sexually abused as a child, and I would never do something like that to anyone and I would kill anyone who did that to my kids. 

    I would like to know what sets off your creepy feeling? How does he act weird around kids? Stares and drools? Or acts differently around them? Some adults who are abused as kids will act different, but that doesn't mean hes going to attack anyone. What has been swept under the rug? You allude that maybe there has been something going on? If thats the case, friendship be dammed, protect your kids. If thats not the case, and its just the creepiness I would talk to your MIL, ask her about the brother. I would not worry about ruffling any feathers, and just straight out ask her. 

willywally5

Since he pegs your creepometer, don't allow him to come. 

I would enlist FMIL's help in doing so if she is willing. I

anniversaryontheway

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_my-first-rsvp-debacle-subbing-a-dh-with-someone-deliberately-left-out?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a22354da-2d66-4baf-91b0-d9c27750c292Post:086627c5-e164-4cb4-bf87-39bd320eafdf">Re: My first RSVP debacle, subbing a DH with someone deliberately left out.</a>:
[QUOTE]  I was sexually abused as a child, and I would never do something like that to anyone and I would kill anyone who did that to my kids.      I would like to know what sets off your creepy feeling? How does he act weird around kids? Stares and drools? Or acts differently around them? Some adults who are abused as kids will act different, but that doesn't mean hes going to attack anyone. What has been swept under the rug? You allude that maybe there has been something going on? If thats the case, friendship be dammed, protect your kids. If thats not the case, and its just the creepiness I would talk to your MIL, ask her about the brother. I would not worry about ruffling any feathers, and just straight out ask her. 
Posted by malakelle[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>I wonder if the guest (who is bringing an univited guest) would love to attend the wedding, but is uncomfortable leaving her 14 year old, who has been abused, alone for 7 hours due the fact she doesn't trust the child around other adults w/o supervision. Your weird vibe could also be due the fact this kid has some kind of social skills issue (somewhere on the autism spectrum-like my cousin) and leaving him home is harder than it looks, especially if her spouse in unable to help due to the surgery, it sounds like part of what is going on is that this person, who you chose to include a part of the party,needs some accomodating. </div><div>
</div><div>You can say, "we'll take you and your plus one" and live with it, because she may see bringing her son as a way to resolve a lot of problems that are in her life that day/month. You can also say, "I'd love to see your son, but we've had to draw a line in the sand for our other guests, in reference to childen outside of (immediate family/members of the wedding party, whatever). I hope you understand why including him in the guest could be awkward for me and get me in hot water with other people, who will be more insulted if I had him."</div><div>
</div><div>I taught HS when I got married, and I had to say, "no teenagers" b/c I said my students would crash my wedding if I opened it up, and I didn't want to spend my wedding day keeping 17-year olds away from the open bar/fireworks.  One family was annoyed, and didn't come.  We have made up now.</div><div>
</div><div>Kids who are abused often do give off a vibe, and they need more love and understanding. I hope you can include him in your day of love, and I hope you and your fh are never in the shoes this woman is in.  That being said, if you really can't afford to accomodate this change, there are tactful ways to say so. My aunt brings my cousin to weddings, no matter what, because she has to. It is her life on good days and bad ones, and we make it work. </div>

frantastic12

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_my-first-rsvp-debacle-subbing-a-dh-with-someone-deliberately-left-out?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a22354da-2d66-4baf-91b0-d9c27750c292Post:457bde76-ec91-48d1-b209-3e0f3bcdaecb">Re: My first RSVP debacle, subbing a DH with someone deliberately left out.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: My first RSVP debacle, subbing a DH with someone deliberately left out. : I wonder if the guest (who is bringing an univited guest) would love to attend the wedding, but is uncomfortable leaving her 14 year old, who has been abused, alone for 7 hours due the fact she doesn't trust the child around other adults w/o supervision. Your weird vibe could also be due the fact this kid has some kind of social skills issue (somewhere on the autism spectrum-like my cousin) and leaving him home is harder than it looks, especially if her spouse in unable to help due to the surgery, it sounds like part of what is going on is that this person, who you chose to include a part of the party,needs some accomodating.  You can say, "we'll take you and your plus one" and live with it, because she may see bringing her son as a way to resolve a lot of problems that are in her life that day/month. You can also say, "I'd love to see your son, but we've had to draw a line in the sand for our other guests, in reference to childen outside of (immediate family/members of the wedding party, whatever). 
Posted by anniversaryontheway[/QUOTE]

Might want to re-read the original post.  The uninvited guest is the invited guest's adult brother, not her child.  OP has the 14yr old. 

OP, I'm another vote for "tell her no"...I'm not sure how I'd go about it though.  Discussing with your FMIL is your best bet. 

specialk84

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_my-first-rsvp-debacle-subbing-a-dh-with-someone-deliberately-left-out?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a22354da-2d66-4baf-91b0-d9c27750c292Post:457bde76-ec91-48d1-b209-3e0f3bcdaecb">Re: My first RSVP debacle, subbing a DH with someone deliberately left out.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: My first RSVP debacle, subbing a DH with someone deliberately left out. : I wonder if the guest (who is bringing an univited guest) would love to attend the wedding, but is uncomfortable leaving her 14 year old, who has been abused, alone for 7 hours due the fact she doesn't trust the child around other adults w/o supervision. Your weird vibe could also be due the fact this kid has some kind of social skills issue (somewhere on the autism spectrum-like my cousin) and leaving him home is harder than it looks, especially if her spouse in unable to help due to the surgery, it sounds like part of what is going on is that this person, who you chose to include a part of the party,needs some accomodating.  You can say, "we'll take you and your plus one" and live with it, because she may see bringing her son as a way to resolve a lot of problems that are in her life that day/month. You can also say, "I'd love to see your son, but we've had to draw a line in the sand for our other guests, in reference to childen outside of (immediate family/members of the wedding party, whatever). I hope you understand why including him in the guest could be awkward for me and get me in hot water with other people, who will be more insulted if I had him." I taught HS when I got married, and I had to say, "no teenagers" b/c I said my students would crash my wedding if I opened it up, and I didn't want to spend my wedding day keeping 17-year olds away from the open bar/fireworks.  One family was annoyed, and didn't come.  We have made up now. Kids who are abused often do give off a vibe, and they need more love and understanding. I hope you can include him in your day of love, and I hope you and your fh are never in the shoes this woman is in.  That being said, if you really can't afford to accomodate this change, there are tactful ways to say so. My aunt brings my cousin to weddings, no matter what, because she has to. It is her life on good days and bad ones, and we make it work. 
Posted by anniversaryontheway[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>The OP wasn't talking about someone bringing her son instead of husband. She's talking about a grown adult substituting her adult brother on an invitation addressed to her and her husband. Big difference.

</div>

lb1212

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_my-first-rsvp-debacle-subbing-a-dh-with-someone-deliberately-left-out?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a22354da-2d66-4baf-91b0-d9c27750c292Post:4e331fb6-755a-45cd-83b8-8468a1576ca0">Re: My first RSVP debacle, subbing a DH with someone deliberately left out.</a>:
[QUOTE]I just think you'd be within your rights to tell her that the invitation is only for her and her husband, and you're sorry you cannot accommodate the brother.  No explanation is necessary, and she would be out of line to press the issue.
Posted by RebeccaB88[/QUOTE]

THIS!  I would give FMIL a head's up though.  If you and FI are uncomfortable with Creep-O being around your kids, then you shouldn't allow him to come.  Period. 

IMO, asking a 14 yo to protect younger siblings isn't a good idea.  What if (God forbid) something were to happen? Would you really want your 14 yo to live with that guilt? If something happens and Creep-O attends, plan on hiring someone to entertain the kids and let them know that Creep-O should be watched.

pearlaqua

I'm guessing, OP, that there are more than a few people who are attending your wedding who were abused sexually as children. 

I'm not suggesting doing a psychological scan of all potential guests or ascribing criminal traits to the univited guest, it doesn't have to come to that.

You can just let the wife know that the invitation is for her husband and to keep you posted if he can come, but otherwise you are unable to accomodate anyone else. (That is, if she RSVPs for herself and son, as far I could tell, you've heard this from her daughter, right?)