Need some advice.... very, VERY odd situation

golden1215

So H's little sister visited with her girlfriend this weekend and over the course of an evening (of drinking) mentioned that she and her girlfriend want to have kids eventually.  This is no surprise, we've known she wants kids even though she's gay, what took me back was that they want to use Hs sperm...

Now, obviously her girlfriend would be the one bearing the child- not my SIL- but I'm still on the fence about the idea.  I know their reasoning kind of makes sense.  They want SIL to have some biological tie to the baby, since in WI they cant legally be married.  And the thinking is if SIL and her girlfriend ever split, our family would still have some claim to see the baby, be in its life etc.  And then the kid would look like H/SIL/their family etc etc etc

But in my heart, I feel like H- and everything about him, splooge included- are mine.  I don't know if I could detach from the baby enough, even though its not mine.  Or if H and I decide not to have any more kids (despite him reeally wanting a son) and then his sis ends up with a boy, if he could detach. 

I really love my SIL and want her to be happy.  And I know it's really hard being gay in a very straight, midwest society but idk... I'm torn.  It's not something we're gonne decide tomorrow or anything I'm just looking for feedback.

p.s. my first thought was "omg redneck! the kid would have a daddy-uncle!" lol

Beachy730

Haha I'm cracking up at the daddy-uncle comment.

What does your H think about it?  Personally I don't think I could let H do it.  It would be one thing if you were just going to donate your sperm to a clinic, to which you would have no idea if a child was ever conceived with it.  But this is a case where you would know the child and be a big part of its life, but it wouldn't be yours.  When thinking about my brother, if down the road he asked me to be a surrogate, I would probably want to do it, but I would probably be very attached to it so I don't know if it would be possible. 

I don't know if this is something you could ever know the answer to unless you were faced with it.  A few weeks ago I heard a commercial on the radio for an egg donor clinic, and they were paying $3,000 for donated eggs.  I looked at H and said, " there you go, I can go donate an egg real quick and we can have our cruise paid for."  I was kind of serious.  Seriously, $3k for an egg thats just going to waste on my next period anyways?  Sure.  But H told me there's no way he could let me do it because he couldn't stand the thought of one of us having a kid out there that wasn't with us.  To me I was thinking it was just an egg, but H was thinking of it as a child.  So needless to say, my eggs are all still intact and not donated. 

Long story short, it has to be something you're both comfortable with and okay with.  To me, a random donation is one thing, but I don't think I could handle a child we would see all the time.

2dBride

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-advice-very-very-odd-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6d0b122-9a7e-4a87-84a9-be93966ffd14Post:aced4b54-4b9f-4759-88ac-449ef81b52d8">Need some advice.... very, VERY odd situation</a>:
[QUOTE]And the thinking is if SIL and her girlfriend ever split, our family would still have some claim to see the baby, be in its life etc.  And then the kid would look like H/SIL/their family etc etc etc
Posted by golden1215[/QUOTE]I think there are really two issues here.  The first is how SIL would have a claim to see the baby, be in its life, etc.  Your H being the father would not necessarily help with that, since many state laws do not treat a sperm donor as having parental rights.   What SIL really needs is a second parent adoption, which is possible in most states even if they do not recognize gay marriage.  They should definitely talk with a lawyer on this one.

And if your H <em>were</em> recognized as having parental rights by virtue of his donation, then he presumably would have parental obligations--like a duty to pay child support--as well.  And that duty can typically not be waived by the other parent.  Again, you really need legal advice on that issue.

If the issue is just getting the baby to look like H/SIL, their best option is to look for a sperm donor who has similar physical characteristics, which would not be that hard.  And that would avoid the legal morass that having him be the father could cause.

saschaduran

Wow...that would be tough.  I feel like I would be more comfortable if we already had children together.  But it somehow would bother me before.

And fyi about egg donating...it is not easy at all.  And worth way more than $3000 I think.  I have had 2 friends donate and they had to go through twice daily shots of hormones, bloating, mood swings, avoiding sex with their boyfriends for a month before and a few weeks after, and being put asleep for the surgical removal of the eggs, and had severe cramping after.  My one friend had recurring vaginal infections for a year after donating.

Both of them donated to family members actually.

Beachy730

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-advice-very-very-odd-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6d0b122-9a7e-4a87-84a9-be93966ffd14Post:5ff9079e-8ea1-40da-b864-2b805bd70242">Re: Need some advice.... very, VERY odd situation</a>:
[QUOTE]Wow...that would be tough.  I feel like I would be more comfortable if we already had children together.  But it somehow would bother me before. And fyi about egg donating...it is not easy at all.  And worth way more than $3000 I think.  I have had 2 friends donate and they had to go through twice daily shots of hormones, bloating, mood swings, avoiding sex with their boyfriends for a month before and a few weeks after, and being put asleep for the surgical removal of the eggs, and had severe cramping after.  My one friend had recurring vaginal infections for a year after donating. Both of them donated to family members actually.
Posted by saschaduran[/QUOTE]

Wow, that shows how ignorant I am on the egg donating.  I figured it would be a simple procedure and an easy $3k.  That sounds horrible what you would have to go through.  And you're right, its definitely not worth the money.

tenofcups4me

Wow, tough call. I honestly have no idea how I would feel about that. On the one hand, it makes perfect sense to "keep it in the family" and SIL would have a physical genetic connection to the child, which wouldn't be possible any other way. But I also don't know that I could be ok with DH intentionally fathering someone else's child.

At the very least, it would take a lot of conversation and agreement about what his and your role would be in the child's life. And 2ndbride brings up some great points about talking to lawyers to find out exactly what his legal rights and responsibilities would be.

I don't think there's really a "right" answer here, but I do think you and your DH, and then the two of you and the two of them, will need to have some very long hard talks before you make any kind of decision.

tidetravel

Nope, sorry.  Couldn't do it.  For all of the reasons that you mentioned, plus a lot of the legal reasons already mentioned.  I also don't think that you, nor your DH, should feel guilty about the decision. 

saschaduran

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-advice-very-very-odd-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6d0b122-9a7e-4a87-84a9-be93966ffd14Post:69a774c2-b370-48e9-b6a5-ae2f08c168a0">Re: Need some advice.... very, VERY odd situation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Need some advice.... very, VERY odd situation : Wow, that shows how ignorant I am on the egg donating.  I figured it would be a simple procedure and an easy $3k.  That sounds horrible what you would have to go through.  And you're right, its definitely not worth the money.
Posted by dnbeach12[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Agreed.  Although for $10,000 I may have a different answer:)  But my eggs are too old to donate so it is not even an option.  I think the age limit is 27 or 28.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

thesuninherhead

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-advice-very-very-odd-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6d0b122-9a7e-4a87-84a9-be93966ffd14Post:aced4b54-4b9f-4759-88ac-449ef81b52d8">Need some advice.... very, VERY odd situation</a>:
[QUOTE]So H's little sister visited with her girlfriend this weekend and over the course of an evening (of drinking) mentioned that she and her girlfriend want to have kids eventually.  This is no surprise, we've known she wants kids even though she's gay, what took me back was that they want to use Hs sperm... Now, obviously her girlfriend would be the one bearing the child- not my SIL- but I'm still on the fence about the idea.  I know their reasoning kind of makes sense.  They want SIL to have some biological tie to the baby, since in WI they cant legally be married.  And the thinking is if SIL and her girlfriend ever split, our family would still have some claim to see the baby, be in its life etc.  And then the kid would look like H/SIL/their family etc etc etc But in my heart, I feel like H- and everything about him, splooge included- are mine.  I don't know if I could detach from the baby enough, even though its not mine.  Or if H and I decide not to have any more kids (despite him reeally wanting a son) and then his sis ends up with a boy, if he could detach.  I really love my SIL and want her to be happy.  And I know it's really hard being gay in a very straight, midwest society but idk... I'm torn.  It's not something we're gonne decide tomorrow or anything I'm just looking for feedback. p.s. my first thought was "omg redneck! the kid would have a daddy-uncle!" lol
<p>Posted by golden1215[/QUOTE]</p><p> </p><p>This is a huge issue and will obviously take a lot more thought and discussion than is provided by a drunken night of conversation! That said, I wonder how your H feels about it? Personally I would think that it would be much safer for the relationships of all concerned that they use a sperm donor if they do decide they'd like to conceive... As the above posters have rightly pointed out, his genetic ties to a child wouldn't ensure any rights for his sister/their family in any case- and the risks for their relationship seem to outweigh the benefits. </p>

banana468

That is such a tough decision.

I have to say, as someone with a gay sibling, if it was just as easy for me to donate eggs I still don't think I'd be able to do so if my brother asked me.  I completely understand the desire, but that would be MY biological child out there.

And if someone asked DH for his sperm, while it's "his" I also feel like it's mine.  And while I'd never want to tell someone as close as a sibling no, this is one of those times that the word would need to be used.

lilmermaid1582

As a gay woman, i understand the deisre to know the sperm donor and have the child be biologically related to both woman.  If my fiance had a brother this is something I think we would talk about and talk to him about.  In no way would we be upset if he wasn't comfortable doing it.  I know that if either of my brothers asked me to be a surogate I would probably do it, after I was done having children.

cm42878

Someone can call me selfish if they want but there is no way in thr world that I could EVER do that! I understand that they want to have a child and by all means I think that they should be able to have one but I agree with all of your reasons. I would have a very hard time seperating myself from the child and I would think that my FI would have a hard time as well. I just dont think that I could/would ever do it and i dont think you are wrong for not wanting to either.

sarah0725

I dunno... I think you guys need to go with your hearts on this one, because there isn't a logical answer. In my family, though, if I were gay, I could definitely imagine asking my brother for this kind of help. And I think he would give it. We are very, very close.

Weird thing: I used to be best friends with a girl who was gay, and one time FI and I were hanging out with her and her then GF, and he pretty much just told them they could have his sperm if they wanted. And my then-friend said she gets that a lot - apparently, that is how a lot of guys respond to a committed lesbian couple.

ohwhynot

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer - it's not that unusual a request, given the circumstances.   Like Sarah said, in my family, it would probably happen.  But - if you or your husband aren't comfortable with it, then it shouldn't happen for you guys.

It obviously needs to be discussed and researched more.  As others have pointed out, there are serious legal consequences, rights, and responsibilities associated with paternity.  If your husband would want the rights associated with being considered teh baby's father (e.g., visitation and custody rights) then he'd also be on the hook for the responsibilities of fatherhood (e.g., child support).  If he wants to be considered a mere sperm donor, then legal work establishing that will have to be completed - and if he's a mere sperm donor without the responsibilities of fatherhood, then he doesn't get the rights associated with fatherhood, either.  There are variations on this theme, and a lawyer well-versed in these issues can help draft an appropriate agreement. 

I guess the bottom line is that everyone would need to really be on board for this to happen.  The theoretical baby deserves no less than that. 


P.S.  Please never use the word "splooge" again, particularly in the context of something that belongs to you.  Thank you.

golden1215

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-advice-very-very-odd-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6d0b122-9a7e-4a87-84a9-be93966ffd14Post:523f62b0-c29c-4574-a8c1-babfbe0438e1">Re: Need some advice.... very, VERY odd situation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Need some advice.... very, VERY odd situation : I think there are really two issues here.  The first is how SIL would have a claim to see the baby, be in its life, etc.  Your H being the father would not necessarily help with that, since many state laws do not treat a sperm donor as having parental rights.   What SIL really needs is a second parent adoption, which is possible in most states even if they do not recognize gay marriage.  They should definitely talk with a lawyer on this one. And if your H were recognized as having parental rights by virtue of his donation, then he presumably would have parental obligations--like a duty to pay child support--as well.  And that duty can typically not be waived by the other parent.  Again, you really need legal advice on that issue. If the issue is just getting the baby to look like H/SIL, their best option is to look for a sperm donor who has similar physical characteristics, which would not be that hard.  And that would avoid the legal morass that having him be the father could cause.
Posted by 2dBride[/QUOTE]

great point- we didnt even think of that.

I guess we'll see how the next few years go- and what a lawyer says- but I'm thinking we'll go with our guts and say sorry but no.

for what its worth, H is more open to it than I am, but I think once he realizes he'd be on the hook for any money, his mind will change.  The main reason we'd not have our own 2nd child is due to money and affording a good quality of life for both the new baby and our DD; so if he might ever have to pay for the other kid I think he'd say no.

redheadfsu

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-advice-very-very-odd-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6d0b122-9a7e-4a87-84a9-be93966ffd14Post:4d98c903-3fd0-4653-a690-de599dc963fc">Re: Need some advice.... very, VERY odd situation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Need some advice.... very, VERY odd situation : great point- we didnt even think of that. I guess we'll see how the next few years go- and what a lawyer says- but I'm thinking we'll go with our guts and say sorry but no. for what its worth, H is more open to it than I am, but I think once he realizes he'd be on the hook for any money, his mind will change.  The main reason we'd not have our own 2nd child is due to money and affording a good quality of life for both the new baby and our DD; so if he might ever have to pay for the other kid I think he'd say no.
Posted by golden1215[/QUOTE]

Yep, you really need a lawyer to help explain everything in this situation before SIL/ you two even consider it. You really need to completely understand how your state will handle this. Most states don't have "family" type of visitation. Usually the legal parents are the only ones that have rights or responsibilities concerning the child. He would be the legal father or would not be the legal father, not something in between.

golden1215

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-advice-very-very-odd-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6d0b122-9a7e-4a87-84a9-be93966ffd14Post:4fc89367-5f98-44a7-99ca-b621b86b780f">Re: Need some advice.... very, VERY odd situation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Need some advice.... very, VERY odd situation : Yep, you really need a lawyer to help explain everything in this situation before SIL/ you two even consider it.<strong> You really need to completely understand how your state will handle this</strong>. Most states don't have "family" type of visitation. Usually the legal parents are the only ones that have rights or responsibilities concerning the child. He would be the legal father or would not be the legal father, not something in between.
Posted by redheadfsu[/QUOTE]

To make it even more complex we live in MN and they live in WI

Ghoti

I don't think I'd want him to do it, for the same reason that I can't donate eggs. I can't imagine having little half-me's running around and not be able to care for them or know how they are doing.

This might sound crazy, but why doesn't she just have the baby if it's so important? Or maybe she could have the second child and her GF could have the first?

golden1215

Ghoti- because she's the "male" in the relationship I guess.  I dont know the inner workings of lesbian couples but she has never been open to birthing kids herself and pretty much wont date a girl unless the girl is willing to be the "woman" and bear the kid(s).

Ghoti

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-advice-very-very-odd-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6d0b122-9a7e-4a87-84a9-be93966ffd14Post:3b6b5913-a825-47eb-b8a4-a0a503ac8bac">Re: Need some advice.... very, VERY odd situation</a>:
[QUOTE]Ghoti- because she's the "male" in the relationship I guess.  I dont know the inner workings of lesbian couples but she has never been open to birthing kids herself and pretty much wont date a girl unless the girl is willing to be the "woman" and bear the kid(s).
Posted by golden1215[/QUOTE]

Huh.  Well, good luck to you on your decision, it's definitely not an easy one!

jerseydevil

This is one of those decisions where you need to go with your gut! It is a very serious decision to make and I applaud you for thoughtfully considering both options. Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with it and think it would lead to a lot of complicated emotional and legal issues for everyone involved.

Pirata13

Yeah I wouldn't feel comfortble with that.

And I echo PPs statements re: looking into all legal aspects. You don't want to have to pay child support on someone in your own family if the SIL & gf break up. I agree that the money issue could definitely make him think "WHOA, wait!" 

And these days, can't you read all kinds of info about the donors etc so hey, go pick a nice looking smartypants and hope for a smart, good-looking kid.

squirrly

I would absolutely donate eggs for my sister, if she needed them, or be a surrogate for her - assuming that it wouldn't conflict with our own child bearing plans.  And I know my H would absolutely be a sperm donor for his brothers, if either of them couldn't have kids on their own.  And we'd see the child as our neice or nephew, and love it accordingly.  The only thing we'd expect is to be named the child's caregiver if something happened to its legal parents.  I probably also would want things to be open and honest, because that's a hell of a secret to try to keep.

I couldn't donate to somebody who isn't family.  I couldn't have a child out there that I couldn't ensure was taken care of.  But a niece or nephew I could deal with.

noodle_oo

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-advice-very-very-odd-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6d0b122-9a7e-4a87-84a9-be93966ffd14Post:911b8416-9cbc-4ee7-a66b-5da120f99daf">Re: Need some advice.... very, VERY odd situation</a>:
[QUOTE]Nope, sorry.  Couldn't do it.  For all of the reasons that you mentioned, plus a lot of the legal reasons already mentioned.  I also don't think that you, nor your DH, should feel guilty about the decision. 
Posted by tidetravel[/QUOTE]

Agree with this completely.  And yes, if you and your H decided you did not wnat to do it, then his sister has to respect that decision, no guilt trip.

And I agree with you. While this is ultimately a decision for your H, your feelings have to be included as well.  You guys are a family unit.  I dont' think I could handle my H doing this, but I guess I'd try to be supportive if he REALLY wanted to do it.

Regarding the question:  I think it is funny that your SIL brought it up at dinner.  My reaction would also completely depend on how she brought it up.  Because what she is asking is HUGE and serious.  So if she brought up in as an afterthought (as though it was a given your H would do it) that would bother me.

jemmini6

I don't think it's that odd of a request.  In fact, it makes perfect sense.  However, it's one of those things where "sense" and "feelings" don't always go hand in hand.  I wouldn't want FI donating to just anyone, but if it were family, I'd have to really think about it and discuss every possible situation, etc (including talking to a lawyer).  Being that I am not in that situation, I really can't tell you what I'd do.

In your case, I think it's important that both you and your H are comfortable with it though.  True, it's his sperm, his DNA, etc, but being married, I just feel like you have the first right of refusal on who he shares his DNA with...if that makes sense.

Jay&Marissa

I wouldn't do it...I think good fences make good neighbors and good families. That blurs so many lines and you could end up heartbroken later.

How do you explain to your current child that his/her cousin is actually his/her half sibling. What if something happened and you couldn't have another child? What if you have serious reservations about the way they are parenting the child--technically you would have no real say, but it might kill you emotionally. How would you feel watching another woman give birth to your husband's child.

I'm not keen on the idea of sperm donation in general, but I definitely think anonymous donor is the way to go here.

Kristin789

>>Nope, sorry.  Couldn't do it.  For all of the reasons that you mentioned, plus a lot of the legal reasons already mentioned.  I also don't think that you, nor your DH, should feel guilty about the decision. 

That.  Exactly.

DramaGeek

I'd like to think I'd let H make the decision (and I'm fairly certain his decision would be no), but I agree that it's one of those things that you have no idea how you'll react until you're in the situation.

I do have friends who were trying to get pregnant via a friend's sperm.  There was tons of legal paperwork spelling out exactly what rights everyone involved had - parents, grandparents, siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins...you name it.  He was in no way responsible for the child, but he also gave up parental rights.  Essentially, my friend who was not carrying the child would have to adopt the baby and the sperm donor friend had to sign away his parental rights.  Once that's done, it's done, and he would never be on the hook for anything - but also never have any kind of claim to the kid either.  So there's that.

If you/your H have any inkling of possibly doing it, definitely talk to a lawyer first.