Since it's slow - XP, how to handle grief from HR abt doctor's appts

PiscesFish

In the past few weeks, I have had several doctor's appointments, a trip to the ER (all pregnancy related), a stellar performance review, and... several calls from HR asking if I was OK, are the doctor's appts related to my diabetes.

For the inevitable question - a few years back, I had to pull in HR because there was an issue with my old supervisor/client at the time not being willing to let me take meal breaks/keep snacks at my desk/check my blood glucose.  That is how people know I'm diabetic.

The latest convo with HR (yesterday, prior to the review) had to do with the fact that I haven't taken certain online classes to get a particular professional certification. I wanted her take on how to broach the conversation with my manager that I don't have time to study/take classes when I'm right now covering for two other people.

Her:  (Colleague of mine) stays up until 2 AM taking these classes.

Me:  As you know, he's neither covering for two people, nor has he been struggling with a chronic medical condition recently.  He doesn't have one.  My situation is completely different.

Her:  Are you controlling your blood glucose properly?  Remembering to take your insulin shots or whatever it is you need?  Maybe you just need to eat better, and you'd have more energy.

Now she does not work in the same city as I, or even see me in person on a regular basis. I'm not sure (a) how she feels qualified to make an assessment over the phone as to my day to day health; or (b) if she's apparently got an MD with specialization as an endochrinologist, why she's working as an HR rep.

At the review of course, my manager asked me about the classes and I had to give him some BS story.  But this is HR's stance?!

See, conversations like these, make me think they're just going to fire me when they learn I'm pregnant.

Advice on handling this, this woman is beginning to irritate me.

ZRex

Does your company have an Employee Assistance Program?  That might be a good place to start.

Is this woman on the HR team or is she the Director of HR?  Totally inappropriate.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

I would just keep repeating, "I don't feel comfortable sharing my personal medical information."

But she really, really shouldn't be doing that. I'm not sure what to tell you. Is there someone higher up you can go to?

tldh

How many employees are there in your company?  I can't remember if diabetes is covered in the Americans with Disabilities Act but there is a minimum employee number for it to apply.  In case it is, you may want to contact an employment law attorney in your area, especially if you think they'd fire you because of a pregnancy.

Also, looking at this from HR's point of view, staying up late to take online classes shouldn't be that big of a deal.  I went to law school with diabetics who pushed themselves a hell of a lot harder than that while running on no sleep.  I obviously don't know your situation but I'd bet this is how HR is looking at it but they cannot ask about your medical condition, ever. 

Bubbalub

I would go over her head. It is completely inappropriate for a random HR person to be asking you personal health questions and then questioning you on how well you are taking care of yourself. Make a complaint to her manager. It is none of their business WHY you have had multiple doctor visits, only that the reason for your absence has been medical-related.

(HR folks, please correct me if I'm wrong about that!)

[Deleted User]

My old boss gave me crap about my doc appointments, since they are out of town. She told me I should get an in-town doc to make it more convenient for the workplace (basically, so I wouldn't have to take an entire day off, just a couple hours). When I told her I go to this doc for yearly exams to make sure the cancer hasn't come back, she just said I needed to change offices.

I then was told by a friend in the legal industry that it's illegal for bosses to harass employees about health/doctor-related issues. When this was brought to her attention, she never said another word when I asked for time off. I say go over her head and let her boss know she is harassing you. You shouldn't have to deal with this.

arv266

Is there any way you could possibly squeeze in those courses?  Not complying with completing them will give HR an easy out to fire you.  I think it would be hard for your employer to tell you, we have to let you go because you've taken too many sick days... but it would be a breeze to say, you know, you didn;t get your certification, and we mentioned it at your last review... I'm sorry but we're going to have to let you go. Stay as far under the radar as possible.

PiscesFish

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_its-slow-xp-handle-grief-hr-abt-doctors-appts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:ac77e77d-ed0f-4b9f-9632-e6ede03022f3Post:eedf58a1-3e97-4420-beea-d2bf2efe57a8">Re: Since it's slow - XP, how to handle grief from HR abt doctor's appts</a>:
[QUOTE] Also, looking at this from HR's point of view, staying up late to take online classes shouldn't be that big of a deal.  I went to law school with diabetics who pushed themselves a hell of a lot harder than that while running on no sleep. 
Posted by tldh[/QUOTE]

With all due respect for you and your classmates - I'm willing to bet they didn't do that while growing a human being inside their bodies, in the exhausting first trimester of a high-risk pregnancy.

My company is big enough that ADA applies; since we contract out for HR the department is small, and she is actually the head.

hetshup

1) I'm pretty sure it's illegal to fire someone for anything health related. Do  you have FMLA? FMLA should protect you from any health related questions or terminations

2) According to HIPPA, they can't get info, and you do not need to disclose. 

I'm not a lawyer, but I have a chronic illness, and this is my understanding. 

PiscesFish

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_its-slow-xp-handle-grief-hr-abt-doctors-appts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:ac77e77d-ed0f-4b9f-9632-e6ede03022f3Post:4ae35107-cb3c-4a86-bbba-dbb09c431e8a">Re: Since it's slow - XP, how to handle grief from HR abt doctor's appts</a>:
[QUOTE]Is there any way you could possibly squeeze in those courses?  Posted by arv266[/QUOTE]

Sure... if I wanted to chug a ton of coffee, deny my body and my baby the rest they need, and risk birth defects or a miscarriage, I could totally cut my sleep needs in half and get those courses in at the rate they seem to think I should.

As it is, I have about 2 hours between getting off work and bedtime. <em> </em>That's like an hour to an hour and a half once you factor in commute home.  I can either use that time to make dinner/run errands/make sure my place is clean enough for it to be healthy for a pregnant woman to live there, or I can use it to sneak in class time.

And the certification is needed only if I want a promotion, which I'm not going to want that weeks before giving birth.

mica178

Well, the good thing is if they try to fire you for being pregnant, you can sue them for a lot of money.  Because as PP mentioned, that'd be a violation of FMLA.

HIPAA protects your privacy, but if you voluntarily offer up information to the HR lady in a moment of anger, you just broke your own privacy rights.  Don't do that.  Take deep breaths and think about what you're going to say before the words start spilling out. 

arv266

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_its-slow-xp-handle-grief-hr-abt-doctors-appts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:ac77e77d-ed0f-4b9f-9632-e6ede03022f3Post:eab4ab89-fe13-40ea-b319-172326c6f2df">Re: Since it's slow - XP, how to handle grief from HR abt doctor's appts</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Since it's slow - XP, how to handle grief from HR abt doctor's appts : Sure... if I wanted to chug a ton of coffee, deny my body and my baby the rest they need, and risk birth defects or a miscarriage, I could totally cut my sleep needs in half and get those courses in at the rate they seem to think I should. As it is, I have about 2 hours between getting off work and bedtime.    That's like an hour to an hour and a half once you factor in commute home.  I can either use that time to make dinner/run errands/make sure my place is clean enough for it to be healthy for a pregnant woman to live there, or I can use it to sneak in class time. And the certification is needed only if I want a promotion, which I'm not going to want that weeks before giving birth.
Posted by PiscesFish[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>My apologies if I pushed your button on completing the courses.  From the initial post I had the idea that these were a requirement, not optional.  PP had great suggestions, hope it helps.

<div>
</div></div>

katiepoppy

Unless you miss three consecutive days of work for illness, you have no obligation to discuss your medical situation (and even then you should only need a doctor's note). If she asks you more questions, tell her that you do not wish to discuss it further.

In terms of termination, unless you are unionized you are likely an employee at will, meaning that you could be let go for any reason at any time. That means it does not matter whether or not you complete the courses - your attitude could count for a lot. I would focus on your relationship with your boss and continue to perform well. Make sure that you and your boss are on the same page regarding the timeliness of you completing the course, and if you are able to take them during regular work hours.

Good luck!

thesuninherhead

If you lived in Australia, I would say that there are laws that protect you from having to answer these sorts of questions and that if you're producing a doctor's certificate, that is enough and you don't legally have to tell them what the medical issues are... I don't know if they have something similar in the US?

PiscesFish

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_its-slow-xp-handle-grief-hr-abt-doctors-appts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:ac77e77d-ed0f-4b9f-9632-e6ede03022f3Post:59476efc-5c49-4003-8037-d7d52c365148">Re: Since it's slow - XP, how to handle grief from HR abt doctor's appts</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Since it's slow - XP, how to handle grief from HR abt doctor's appts : My apologies if I pushed your button on completing the courses.  From the initial post I had the idea that these were a requirement, not optional.  PP had great suggestions, hope it helps.
Posted by arv266[/QUOTE]

:)  You're sweet, Arv, thanks for saying that.  I'm a little sensitive on this issue in the first place, and you're right, I didn't clarify.
Loved your dog treat "non-invites" btw, and I'm stealing that for my wedding!

thesuninherhead

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_its-slow-xp-handle-grief-hr-abt-doctors-appts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:ac77e77d-ed0f-4b9f-9632-e6ede03022f3Post:a71aab86-6035-4cad-a695-094e5afc6f38">Re: Since it's slow - XP, how to handle grief from HR abt doctor's appts</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Since it's slow - XP, how to handle grief from HR abt doctor's appts : With all due respect for you and your classmates - I'm willing to bet they didn't do that while growing a human being inside their bodies, in the exhausting first trimester of a high-risk pregnancy. My company is big enough that ADA applies; since we contract out for HR the department is small, and she is actually the head.
Posted by PiscesFish[/QUOTE]
<p> </p><p>I don't see how one would feel it would be at all appropriate to <em>ever</em> suggest that an employee stay up to 2am in their personal time taking classes associated with work. </p><p> </p><p>Work is work and happens in working hours. I don't think you need to provide any explanation for why you don't want to be up at all hours studying for work, if this course is solely for your position.</p>

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_its-slow-xp-handle-grief-hr-abt-doctors-appts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:ac77e77d-ed0f-4b9f-9632-e6ede03022f3Post:834f466a-2b2a-499f-b474-e9cb598a7d1e">Re: Since it's slow - XP, how to handle grief from HR abt doctor's appts</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Since it's slow - XP, how to handle grief from HR abt doctor's appts :   I don't see how one would feel it would be at all appropriate to  ever suggest that an employee stay up to 2am in their personal time taking classes associated with work.    Work is work and happens in working hours. I don't think you need to provide any explanation for why you don't want to be up at all hours studying for work, if this course is solely for your position.
Posted by thesuninherhead[/QUOTE]

I'm with you, Sun. I realize that if one is a salaried employee, you devote however much time is needed to your job. But if they want you to complete work-related course, they need to compensate you in some way - monetarily for your time or by reducing your workload.

tldh

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_its-slow-xp-handle-grief-hr-abt-doctors-appts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:ac77e77d-ed0f-4b9f-9632-e6ede03022f3Post:a71aab86-6035-4cad-a695-094e5afc6f38">Re: Since it's slow - XP, how to handle grief from HR abt doctor's appts</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Since it's slow - XP, how to handle grief from HR abt doctor's appts : With all due respect for you and your classmates - I'm willing to bet they didn't do that while growing a human being inside their bodies, in the exhausting first trimester of a high-risk pregnancy. My company is big enough that ADA applies; since we contract out for HR the department is small, and she is actually the head.
Posted by PiscesFish[/QUOTE]

LIke I said, I don't know your situation but it's in my nature to look at both sides to figure out how to handle a problem.  HR cannot ask you about your medical conditions nor can they fire you for being pregnant.  They can fire you for other reasons if you are an at will employee.  If this is something that is really worrying you, again, I suggest contacting an employment law attorney in your area.  You may need her.

ipen44

I agree that employers should not pry into health issues.  To keep them from asking, I would not use the condition as a reason for not completing coursework.  It seems like you could attack the issue from another stand point--reasonable working hours and conditions.  Research shows that people who work over 40 hrs are less productive (note to self-stop working 50).

It has also been shown that lack of work/life balance causes absenteeism and long term illness that are a huge drain on your employer and society.  You can address not wanting to take classes at 2 am from these general standpoints.  When you say "he does not have a chronic disease" that invites (not legally, but opens a conversational door) for your employer to try to get details about your condidtion.

One thing is clear:  Stress is can kill you/Diabetes can kill you/Your job will not kill you.  Take care of yourself and your family.  Do your best at your job, but do not put yourself at risk.

Kristin789

>>I don't see how one would feel it would be at all appropriate to ever suggest that an employee stay up to 2am in their personal time taking classes associated with work.

My workplace requires each new hire to complete two courses within the first two years.  The last person to be fired for non-completion had asked the college professor (these courses are outsourced to the local college) for an "incomplete" and she would finish the spring semester course over the summer by the first day of the fall semester.  The college prof said yes.  The workplace fired her anyway.  And YES, she WAS in her difficult first trimester.   And YES, she was a phenomenal girl that our workplace has used since then in a part-time capacity, and she's been GREAT.

Our workplace absolutely holds the line on requirements and "discontinues" anyone who doesn't fulfill them.  HR is totally upset when people take sick leave, and this has rolled out in a monthly "health awareness" program and each individual must complete a "health unit" on our benefits company's website every three months - if we don't, we are billed the difference between the discounted price that the workplace will provide and the regular cost of insurance.

I realize that the OP's workplace has suggested advanced training that is OPTIONAL, to be completed IF she wants a promotion.

But I'm saying that workplaces today are almost forcing this issue, because they will be able to get the clearance to hire more lower-level workers once the other people do the training and get promoted.  They CANNOT get the clearance to hire middle-level workers - and that's why the OP is doing 2 other people's jobs.