S/O Nigerian Bomber... What Could Have Been Done to Prevent it?

ExpatPumpkin

The facts as I understand them:

- Father alerted U.S. consulate in Nigeria that he'd turned extremist

- Press says that his U.S. visa should have been revoked

BUT 

- He boarded the flight as an alleged Sudanese refugee without a passport

SO

- If he boarded the plane as an unidentifiable person, what could have been done to prevent it?  Taking away his U.S. visa would have had zero effect on whether he boarded the plane...

(I'm not referring to the obvious miss on the part of the security screeners in Amsterdam.)

lyndausvi

I have no clue.  Terriorists are always one step ahead.  Not that we should not try to prevent things, but I'm not sure we will every be 100% safe.

LesPaul

TSA is far too concerned about being PC.  And far too concerned about my 4.5 ounces of toothpaste.  We need to quit worrying about hurting feelings and PROFILE.  El Al airlines (Israel) has been doing this for years, and is the safest airline on the planet.  TSA spent 20 minutes fussing about my daughter's 2" craft scissors in her backpack . . . she was 8 years old at the time and absolutely zero threat to the flight.  The FBI (and others) have a damn good idea who is prone to terrorism, so STOP THEM.

lyndausvi

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nigerian-bomber-could-done-prevent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c7f611ed-f630-4a8b-8c69-a2a9627e024ePost:d5e250e6-f7ea-4e33-9c42-59f113f63e8f">Re: S/O Nigerian Bomber... What Could Have Been Done to Prevent it?</a>:
[QUOTE]TSA is far too concerned about being PC.  And far too concerned about my 4.5 ounces of toothpaste.  We need to quit worrying about hurting feelings and PROFILE.  El Al airlines (Israel) has been doing this for years, and is the safest airline on the planet. <strong> TSA spent 20 minutes fussing about my daughter's 2" craft scissors in her backpack . . . she was 8 years old at the time and absolutely zero threat to the flight.</strong>  The FBI (and others) have a damn good idea who is prone to terrorism, so STOP THEM.
Posted by LesPaul[/QUOTE]

Maybe she isn't.  but that does mean you wearn't. (not that I think you are) Sadly, some people use their kids as a way to commit crimes.   Just saying.

Plus this guy boarded in Amsterdam, not the US, so TSA was not involved in this.

LesPaul

She was flying with her 11 year old sister, so I wasn't on the plane.  Granted, this flight originated outside the US, so the Nigerian bomber is a separate issue, and innocent people can be used as pawns. 

But - I'm sure we have all been frustrated with what we see are misdirected efforts of TSA here in the US.  I'm just saying that being PC should go out the window and get serious about real security.  Profiling isn't a bad thing in airline security.

ricksang

 If the US was alerted about this man, the airline in Am. should have been alerted and the man should have been taken by security. What if his bomb attempt would have worked. It is redic to ignore a terrorist threat just because we don't want to insult someone.

lyndausvi

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nigerian-bomber-could-done-prevent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c7f611ed-f630-4a8b-8c69-a2a9627e024ePost:6648a0ff-9c9f-41ac-8513-d37fc9b18fca">Re: S/O Nigerian Bomber... What Could Have Been Done to Prevent it?</a>:
[QUOTE]  <strong>Profiling isn't a bad thing in airline security.</strong>
Posted by LesPaul[/QUOTE]

This coming from a white non-ethic woman. (at least that is what it looks like from your picture)

I'm sure if you were a 4th generation US citizen of mid-eastern decent you would singing a different tune.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

It depends how you would feel if you were profiled.

First, not all Muslim extremists are Arab. Second, not all Muslims (or Arabs) are terrorists. Not even close.

I'm a white, female, natural-born American citizen, so I can't speak from experience, but if I were a male from Egypt, I don't know that I'd like to be screened and interrogated for 90 minutes every time I got on an airplane.

Yes, it might be safer because threats would be caught, but this is the first threat on a US airline in literally years. Think about how many people who be pissed off, not to mention the wasted resources of a plan like that. And El Al only has a handful of flights a day, so they are able to keep security that tight.

I am NOT saying that if, god forbid, a terrorist were successful in blowing up another plane that it would be a small price to pay for our "freedoms" or whatever the hell some people think. Just that there are other options than treating every innocent person like a criminal.

lyndausvi

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nigerian-bomber-could-done-prevent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c7f611ed-f630-4a8b-8c69-a2a9627e024ePost:d142b5af-603b-49f3-9119-0eb04610c4fe">Re: S/O Nigerian Bomber... What Could Have Been Done to Prevent it?</a>:
[QUOTE] If the US was alerted about this man, the airline in Am. should have been alerted and the man should have been taken by security. What if his bomb attempt would have worked. It is redic to ignore a terrorist threat just because we don't want to insult someone.
Posted by ricksang[/QUOTE]

I believe he flew under a different name, as a refugee, not passport.  Nothing that connected him to his real name.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

Oh, and I think the whole, "This guy is from Sudan, so he doesn't need a passport" ruse to get on the airplane? What kind of Sudanese refugee is taking a commercial flight out of Amsterdam? THAT kind of stuff should be investigated. Not brown people in general, or foreigners in general, or non-Christians in general.

ricksang

Yes, but this man should have been profiled FFS his own father called to warn the airline! We shouldn't profile everyone but possible threats FUKC YEAH!

AmoroAgain

So, I recently flew on this exact same flight from Amsterdam to Detroit.  First off, they screen the hell out of everyone.  In Amsterdam, you enter a glassed off waiting area, and go through EXTRA security questions.  The security in Amsterdam is tight.

Secondly, the man should have thrown up so many red flags before the flight that he should never have been allowed on there.  Beyond the previously mentioned items, the guy paid cash for his one way ticket with no bag.  Um, hello?  Red flags anyone?  If he was flying as a Sudanese refugee, he would have had some sort of international support from say, Amnesty International or UNHCR, and would not be flying on his own. 

And Les, I'll thank you to keep that "profiling isn't a bad thing" schit put away.  My husband gets hassled because he's Asian American.  His former boss, who's lived in the US for 30 years, gets hassled because his name is Ali.  Also, let's not forget that the shoe bomber was freaking British, mkay?

ricksang

Hmmm that DOES complicates things. I wonder why the dad did not offer a picture of this man?

ricksang

Yes there are  WHITE sympathizers.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

He was already on a watch list, Ang. There were apparantly a huge number of cockups that allowed him to get on that flight, like Amoro mentioned. Which is scary, because it makes me doubt that the ONLY time they messed up this bad was when it was a terrorist. No. This kind of stuff probably happens a lot. Security fail.

lyndausvi

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nigerian-bomber-could-done-prevent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c7f611ed-f630-4a8b-8c69-a2a9627e024ePost:4aa13826-2178-44d3-a5b7-34168d350eeb">Re: S/O Nigerian Bomber... What Could Have Been Done to Prevent it?</a>:
[QUOTE]Yes, but this man should have been profiled FFS his own father called to warn the airline! We shouldn't profile everyone but possible threats FUKC YEAH!
Posted by ricksang[/QUOTE]

I really do not know how that all works.  I think the dad voiced his concerns about his son, but did not have anything specific on how he might carry something out.

So unless there is some sort of book with a picture of EVERY single 'possible' terrorist sitting in EVERY airport around the world, I'm not sure how he would have been caught. 

Outside of getting everyone in the in the entire world's eye identifcation.  I'm not really sure how you can stop this 100%

ricksang

Hmmm. You know what? I think I am going by boat for now on! Then I have to worry about pirates dang.

ExpatPumpkin

I think it's a HUGE LEAP to assume that a pseudo 16-year-old Sudanese refugee in Amsterdam is the same 23-year-old Nigerian reported to the U.S. consulate in Lagos...

Can you imagine how many such reports are probably made AND how many refugees are flown to the States?

This one, unfortunately, slipped through the cracks.  That's what makes it so scary

alixzafiris

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nigerian-bomber-could-done-prevent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c7f611ed-f630-4a8b-8c69-a2a9627e024ePost:562b1482-7785-49cc-b740-8b269971490c">Re: S/O Nigerian Bomber... What Could Have Been Done to Prevent it?</a>:
[QUOTE]And Les, I'll thank you to keep that "profiling isn't a bad thing" schit put away.  My husband gets hassled because he's Asian American.
Posted by AmoroAgain[/QUOTE]

Yep. Yep. Yep.
Take me, for example. I'm a freaking white chick with blonde hair. I travelled on a South African passport and got hassled the fvck out of. I had to switch to my UK one as soon as it arrived. My dad is Greek and travels on a Canuck passport and gets hassled all. the. time. It's no fun at all being profiled, irritating as hell, incredibly embarrassing and just plain rude 90% of the time.

lyndausvi

sadly even with 9/11 and other plane attacks.   Air travel is still one of the safest forms of transportation. 

lyndausvi

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nigerian-bomber-could-done-prevent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c7f611ed-f630-4a8b-8c69-a2a9627e024ePost:6d90af77-c3d9-4cb9-be9c-a3774edb7b31">Re: S/O Nigerian Bomber... What Could Have Been Done to Prevent it?</a>:
[QUOTE]. Can you imagine how many such reports are probably made AND how many refugees are flown to the States? This one, unfortunately, slipped through the cracks.  That's what makes it so scary :(
Posted by ExpatPumpkin[/QUOTE]


That is what I was thinking.  I can imagine the numbers are outragous.

AmoroAgain

http://gizmodo.com/5435954/the-true-odds-of-airborne-terror-chart

ricksang

Yeah, I think you take your chances no matter what you do in life and with all the fights that take off each day, the attempts are quite small in comparision. 

lyndausvi

I love it Amoro.

AmoroAgain

I will tell you though, it's a bit freaky to think that I was *just* on that flight from Amsterdam a couple of months ago. heh.

thesuninherhead

Is 'profiling' the new PC term for racist stereotyping? 

I have never head of it before (well, other than the show 'profiler', but the colour of a person's skin didn't seem to come into that equation). 

 

In any case, as Amoro very rightly points out, these 'threats' do not simply come from those with a particular country of origin or skin colour. Through applying such blatantly racist stereotypes and regarding whole groups of people as requiring extra scrutiny, we risk further alienating those groups and fuelling the undercurrent of hostility towards our western countries that impose such hypocritical processes... not to mention, allowing our bias to result in people who don't 'look' like terrorists slipping through the cracks. 

thesuninherhead

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nigerian-bomber-could-done-prevent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:c7f611ed-f630-4a8b-8c69-a2a9627e024ePost:f1903b61-7521-4e49-bd51-2bb1c581a88d">Re: S/O Nigerian Bomber... What Could Have Been Done to Prevent it?</a>:
[QUOTE]Yeah, I think you take your chances no matter what you do in life and with all the fights that take off each day, the attempts are quite small in comparision. 
<p>Posted by ricksang[/QUOTE]</p><p> </p><p>So true. It's amazing how much attention the media focuses on the threat of terrorism, when things like car accidents and suicide are claiming far higher percentages of our communities lives. Not to say that we should disregard the threat, but that there is no need to put such alarmist focus on it when in reality it's very well managed, and we take greater risks stepping into our car than we do in getting onto an airplane.</p>

ricksang

You def. take a greater risk in a car with me on the road ;P

thesuninherhead

hahaha.

Remind me never to drive in the states! ;P

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

Well said, Sun. And profiling involves a lot of stuff... but when you get down to brass tacks, it's basically saying, "People with this skin color/religion/ethnic background are more likely to be terrorists."

40,000 people each year die in auto accidents in the US alone. You really take your life in your hands any time you get into a car. What sucks about a terrorist killing a plane full of people is that is seems so preventable and the deaths so unnecessary. But then again, so is drunk driving.

ricksang

Just stay up North Sun and you will be fine!

Hey TK ate your thread too!