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Interesting Article (SFW)

http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/all/5719098/america-the-miserable.thtml

1) Do you agree with the author?
2) Do you think his view as a Brit skews his view?
3) If you were to write an article on the "feel" of America right now, what would the title be?
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Re: Interesting Article (SFW)

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    I'm in the middle of it and I'm genuinely curious if "ageing" is misspelled, or if that's a Brit spelling.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-article-sfw?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c9d88cbb-345c-4f4a-a86d-253b380b6626Post:fce80a0c-6ad6-4c28-8f2e-96089393ec24">Re: Interesting Article (SFW)</a>:
    [QUOTE]I'm in the middle of it and I'm genuinely curious if "ageing" is misspelled, or if that's a Brit spelling.
    Posted by laurenclaire1386[/QUOTE]

    Yep! It's legit, although it still looks wrong.
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    1) Do you agree with the author?
    I do. I think the basic mindset of America has changed. It's gloomy. It's hard to see the good right now, for me anyway. I think a lot of people are terrified and unsure that things are going to get better.
    2) Do you think his view as a Brit skews his view?
    Skews isn't the word I'd use. I think his Britishness does inform his opinion. It's a lot easier to make an assessment of someone (or a culture) when you're not part of it.
    3) If you were to write an article on the "feel" of America right now, what would the title be?
    I'm not creative enough for this question.
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    Thanks September. It just looked so incredibly wrong on my screen. But then I figured that this was a reputable source that woudln't be letting misspelled words fly.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-article-sfw?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c9d88cbb-345c-4f4a-a86d-253b380b6626Post:1e6b6f6d-6595-4597-9dc2-813f36acb113">Interesting Article (SFW)</a>:
    [QUOTE]
     1) Do you agree with the author?

    <strong>I do actually.  Everytime I watch/read the US news, it's just SO negative and when I was back in the US, all anyone could talk about was Swine Flu and the economy and how worried they were about their jobs/houses.  It was so weird.</strong>

     2) Do you think his view as a Brit skews his view?

    <strong>Not really.  In general, Brits have a tendency (I've noticed) to look at the US as a bunch of crazies, and to sort of pat us on the head when we do something "silly".  This author seems to not do that.</strong>

     3) If you were to write an article on the "feel" of America right now, what would the title be?

    <strong>America: Too Demanding, Too Stupid to See the Light</strong>
    Posted by AmoroAgain[/QUOTE]
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    Civilisations looked weird to me.  I'm with you on the spelling, LC - hahaha.

    1) Do you agree with the author? Sadly, yes. We're very gloomy, as a whole.
    2) Do you think his view as a Brit skews his view? Not really, I think it's good to be an outsider looking in.
    3) If you were to write an article on the "feel" of America right now, what would the title be? I suck at creative stuff.
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    Well, it is certainly an interesting article and I see the author's viewpoint, but I think he is taking a small chunk of time (the last decade) out of nearly 250 years to show it. We are better off now than we were during the Depression, we are not on food rationing and there is a strong undercurrent of hope for the future that I think he dismissed too easily when he spoke about Obama being elected.

    The immigration thing is hard, too. Once we were a country of indiginous peoples who were invaded (essentially and eventually) by immigrants who took over. Sure, those immigrants formed a foundation for a truly spectacular sense of self in the U.S.  but it can't last forever. We are now bursting at the seams with, essentially, immigrants (all of our families but the Native Americans came from somewhere else, right?) and it is putting a huge strain on not only our economy but our humane resources that are in place with the intent that everyone have the basics they need.If the U.S. just opens its borders completely then it would be like a bucket overflowing with water; we can't handle that many people.

    I dunno, it's a difficult topic to be objective about as an American.
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    Stackeye210Stackeye210 member
    First Comment
    edited February 2010
    I can see this mans POV, he's on the outside looking in and knows America past and present.  So of course he sees the difference much better then I would.  I'm merely only beginning my adult life and the stressors to come along with it.  I've been fortunate to be having the most successful times of my life the past few years and have not been hit by some of the rough times Americans have been hit with. 

    The only thing that has changed with me in the past few years is my desire to explore other cultures and countries and realizing that America may not be the ", land of the free, land of opportunity, best place on Earth" or whatever people once called it (or call it now). 

    I do feel blessed to live in America and always will. 

    Miserable is not a word I would use to describe America though.  I would say that a lot of Americans take for granted just how great this country could be. 


    ETA: 

    1) Do you agree with the author? No

    2) Do you think his view as a Brit skews his view?  Partially

    3) If you were to write an article on the "feel" of America right now, what would the title be?
    America - Land of the Pessimist. 
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-article-sfw?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c9d88cbb-345c-4f4a-a86d-253b380b6626Post:4e71e702-eadf-4d57-a54b-377db2fe543b">Re: Interesting Article (SFW)</a>:
    [QUOTE]Well, it is certainly an interesting article and I see the author's viewpoint, but I think he is taking a small chunk of time (the last decade) out of nearly 250 years to show it. We are better off now than we were during the Depression, we are not on food rationing and there is a strong undercurrent of hope for the future that I think he dismissed too easily when he spoke about Obama being elected.

    <strong>Oddly enough, what took the US out of the Great Depression was WWII and the growth of industry at that time.  This time, it's war that's pushing us into recession.  Though you dismiss the decade he's looking at specifically, it's easy for him to compare his many decades in the US with what he's seeing now.  Think about the time during the Vietname War, for example.  There was great turmoil and upheaval, not just within the government but socially as well.  Yet, it wasn't all doom and gloom-- there were messages of positivity and beating through the negative.  People revolted because they wanted better.  Obama got elected, people felt better, and immediately it turned into "Why hasn't he fixed this, why hasn't he fixed that" and political stagnation.  For me, the difference is that the people no longer feel that those we elect actually work for us, rather than the Party or the Corporation anymore.</strong>

    The immigration thing is hard, too. Once we were a country of indiginous peoples who were invaded (essentially and eventually) by immigrants who took over. Sure, those immigrants formed a foundation for a truly spectacular sense of self in the U.S.  but it can't last forever. We are now bursting at the seams with, essentially, immigrants (all of our families but the Native Americans came from somewhere else, right?) and it is putting a huge strain on not only our economy but our humane resources that are in place with the intent that everyone have the basics they need.If the U.S. just opens its borders completely then it would be like a bucket overflowing with water; we can't handle that many people. I dunno, it's a difficult topic to be objective about as an American.

    <strong>Most immigrants do not "take" jobs that Americans will do.  When's the last time you met an immigrant from Mexico (for example) that had a high-powered job in the computer industry?  Most of these people barely make ends meet, work in demeaning, basic jobs that an American would never deign to take.</strong>
    Posted by Bubbalub[/QUOTE]
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    1) Do you agree with the author?  For the most part, butI don't think the people of The Biggest Loser have no dignity like he says. 
    2) Do you think his view as a Brit skews his view?  No clue.
    3) If you were to write an article on the "feel" of America right now, what would the title be?  Americans: Too Stupid To Realize They Actually Have It Pretty Good.
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    1) Do you agree with the author? Yes.  It was next to impossible just to survive a week ago.  I hated my job and was completely uncomfortable in the workplace.  I was made to feel dispensible.  I need my house to sell, and bills were just about equal to income.  Then I got laid off.  Appearantly I was.  I have that "30 or 40 years ago" drive and energy - but the anxiety of hiring anyone who doesn't already have the exact needed experience makes it very difficult.
    2) Do you think his view as a Brit skews his view? Not really.  I think it helps him see things more objectively, but not necessarily that it is biased.
    3) If you were to write an article on the "feel" of America right now, what would the title be? I'm not sure, but it would probably have to do with fear... maybe "Cultivating American Fear"
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-article-sfw?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c9d88cbb-345c-4f4a-a86d-253b380b6626Post:6ccf5f07-2f41-4f68-a6c0-6eb6096d439b">Re: Interesting Article (SFW)</a>:
    [QUOTE]The only thing that has changed with me in the past few years is my desire to explore other cultures and countries and realizing that America may not be the ", land of the free, land of opportunity, best place on Earth" or whatever people once called it (or call it now). 

    <strong>Were you someone who didn't care to ever go outside of the US (sorry, just clarifying)?  If so, what made you decide to change your mind?</strong>

    I do feel blessed to live in America and always will.  Miserable is not a word I would use to describe America though.  I would say that a lot of Americans take for granted just how great this country could be. 

    <strong>Us as well.  Sometimes, sitting there listening to Brits argue about things in the UK-- such as the aristocracy, and endemic hierarchical society, and how people actually get into college.  It's CRAZY.  What keeps Americans from realizing our potential?  Complacency?  The idea that we CAN'T actually do everything?  </strong>

    3) If you were to write an article on the "feel" of America right now, what would the title be? America - Land of the Pessimist.

    <strong>What makes us Pessimistic?</strong>
    Posted by Stackeye210[/QUOTE]

    Good response Stack. :)  Yeah for discussions!
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    1.  Yes
    2.  No.  I think sometimes an outsider can diagnose problems better than an insider.
    3.  "Dear America:  I'm Sorry Obama Didn't Wave a Magic Wand and Fix All Your Problems Like You Thought He Would, But I Just Wanted To Say:  I Told You So."
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    Amoro, i see your point about the last decade/recession compared to the Depression. I admit I had not thought of that aspect.

    In regards to immigration I wasn't referring to jobs, at all. I was referring to resources in general. Food, houseing, health care, education. Jobs are only one part of many parts that make this a sticky issue.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-article-sfw?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c9d88cbb-345c-4f4a-a86d-253b380b6626Post:7ba0e176-af69-4e60-a320-af0cc6d143be">Re: Interesting Article (SFW)</a>:
    [QUOTE]3.  "Dear America:  I'm Sorry Obama Didn't Wave a Magic Wand and Fix All Your Problems Like You Thought He Would, But I Just Wanted To Say:  I Told You So."
    Posted by goheels05[/QUOTE]

    See, I don't think it's totally Obama's fault.  I believe that politicians have entrenched themselves so deeply among party lines that no one's willing to work towards solutions for the betterment of the people.  Which IS different from the political history of the US.
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    3.  "Dear America:  I'm Sorry Obama Didn't Wave a Magic Wand and Fix All Your Problems Like You Thought He Would, But I Just Wanted To Say:  I Told You So."

    This. I think a lot of people thought this would be the end all be all. Yes, it's a huge step culturally for America to elect a black man. But I also think people get caught up in his cult of personality and the big, sweeping campaign statements and how gosh darned progressive we are. I think Obama's first year in office has caused a lot of disillusionment. And let me just add something that's been bugging me for a while: if you voted for Obama solely because he's black, it's just as racist as someone who DIDN'T vote for him solely because he's black. It's the same goddamn thing. That wasn't in reference to anyone or anything in particular, just something I was thinking.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-article-sfw?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:c9d88cbb-345c-4f4a-a86d-253b380b6626Post:9597ee54-78c0-4fe2-98a1-eaec40296d3e">Re: Interesting Article (SFW)</a>:
    [QUOTE]Amoro, i see your point about the last decade/recession compared to the Depression. I admit I had not thought of that aspect. In regards to immigration I wasn't referring to jobs, at all. <strong>I was referring to resources in general. Food, houseing, health care, education.</strong> Jobs are only one part of many parts that make this a sticky issue.
    Posted by Bubbalub[/QUOTE]

    I'm wondering if there is a statistic on this. Like of the population of people on gov't assistance, how many are immigrants and how many are American born.  I don't think the immigrants are the problem here.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-article-sfw?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c9d88cbb-345c-4f4a-a86d-253b380b6626Post:9597ee54-78c0-4fe2-98a1-eaec40296d3e">Re: Interesting Article (SFW)</a>:
    [QUOTE] In regards to immigration I wasn't referring to jobs, at all. I was referring to resources in general. Food, houseing, health care, education. Jobs are only one part of many parts that make this a sticky issue.
    Posted by Bubbalub[/QUOTE]

    I can see your point with immigration.  It's just very easy, during a difficult economic environment, for people to start pointing fingers at certain groups as being part (or all) of the problem.  The problem isn't immigration, in fact, if the US didn't have such high numbers of immigrants, we'd have negative population growth, causing employers to move elsewhere for their workforce as we wouldn't be able to supply what we have now.  The problem is in the overall economic development of the US, and how we rely on one boom after another to sustain us, as opposed to a slow and steady progression- investing in our future technologies, investing in education from the ground up, and without reliance on old and outdated ideologies to keep us afloat.  We've realized, for decades now, that we had to change the way our country is powered, and yet, have laid stagnant in our complacency in oil.  Instead of developing wind and solar power, we invade other countries in order to control their oil production.  It's not sustainable in any way.
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    "Most immigrants do not "take" jobs that Americans will do.  When's the last time you met an immigrant from Mexico (for example) that had a high-powered job in the computer industry? "

    Maybe it's because I live in FL where there are TONS of immigrants, but I have had plenty of bosses who were born outside of the country and immigrated here. I find that people who come here legally are just as likely to have a good job as someone who was born in the US, and sometimes more likely if they are bilingual. I don't run in circles with anybody in high-powered jobs, but I really believe legal immigrants get a fair shot here in FL.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-article-sfw?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c9d88cbb-345c-4f4a-a86d-253b380b6626Post:e93b0bf1-2a34-4643-9507-733dca103a4b">Re: Interesting Article (SFW)</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting Article (SFW) : I'm wondering if there is a statistic on this. Like of the population of people on gov't assistance, how many are immigrants and how many are American born.  I don't think the immigrants are the problem here.
    Posted by AlexiaANDRobert[/QUOTE]

    The only thing I can *really* get on this Alexia is, the kids who are born in the US, thereby becoming citizens automatically, and enter the educational system.  People's taxes pay for the schools, but many are undergoing cuts because of the financial crisis, while the number of students hasn't gone down.  So, if you have a lot of low-income households with a disproportionate number of children vs higher income households, it causes a strain.  Especially as those higher income households have been seeing a decrease, overall, in taxable income.
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    I don't think it's President Obama's fault, either.  It's not any one person's fault.  One of our biggest problems is our economy, and nothing any politician could have done would have had an immediate effect good or bad on it.  Economic policy takes up to 8 years to make a lasting change.  But everyone talked so much about change and how awful it would be if another Republican was in office and how everything would  get better when Obama took office.  And they were wrong.  And I kind of revel in that fact.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-article-sfw?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:c9d88cbb-345c-4f4a-a86d-253b380b6626Post:dee06bfd-186c-4077-bee9-d630881f7312">Re: Interesting Article (SFW)</a>:
    [QUOTE]"Most immigrants do not "take" jobs that Americans will do.  When's the last time you met an immigrant from Mexico (for example) that had a high-powered job in the computer industry? " Maybe it's because I live in FL where there are TONS of immigrants, but I have had plenty of bosses who were born outside of the country and immigrated here. I find that people who come here legally are just as likely to have a good job as someone who was born in the US, and sometimes more likely if they are bilingual. I don't run in circles with anybody in high-powered jobs, but I really believe legal immigrants get a fair shot here in FL.
    Posted by SarahSmile23[/QUOTE]

    Good point.
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    *I had only ever been to Canada when I was like 13, and it was only to visit Niagara Falls for the day and more recently I've taken a cruise to the Bahamas, but I hardly think that counts.  I just never had the opportunity to travel.  My mom was born in Germany so I've always been curious to travel and see other places, but I think it was merely open ended talk on my part -  I don't think it was until the past few years where I really started to educate myself on how much the world extends beyond my bubble of America that my desire to branch out has more then quadrupled in curiosity. 

    *Maybe b/c most Americans are born and raised and not immigrants is why we feel complacent.  We feel things are owed to us, and we don't get the "work from ground up" satisfaction that our ancestors maybe felt when first arriving here.  I really don't know why we take things for granted, and I think that's something an outsider looking in might be able to answer better.  This is the life I've always known, and to be honest I'm doing better at this point in my life then my parents ever did in theirs (financially speaking) so I feel like I'm achieving my part of the American dream.  I was brought up that you make a life for yourselves better then your parents made for theirs.  I'm a pure Optimist though, and always have been. 

    I think the below statement that you wrote kind of points to why I think Americans are pessimistic.  People have found all the negatives they can about the Obama Administration and aren't even giving chances to want to see him succeed.  We didn't get American into this situation overnight, and we surely aren't going to fix it within on 4 year term.  Yes, I am an Obama supporter, but I'd feel the same way if people were putting down any current president, whether I voted for or against them. 

    Obama got elected, people felt better, and immediately it turned into "Why hasn't he fixed this, why hasn't he fixed that" and political stagnation.  For me, the difference is that the people no longer feel that those we elect actually work for us, rather than the Party or the Corporation anymore.






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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-article-sfw?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c9d88cbb-345c-4f4a-a86d-253b380b6626Post:4d4d037c-9c7b-48dc-a295-66e59b8168b7">Re: Interesting Article (SFW)</a>:
    [QUOTE]I don't think it's President Obama's fault, either.  It's not any one person's fault.  One of our biggest problems is our economy, and nothing any politician could have done would have had an immediate effect good or bad on it.  Economic policy takes up to 8 years to make a lasting change.  But everyone talked so much about change and how awful it would be if another Republican was in office and how everything would  get better when Obama took office.  And they were wrong.  And I kind of revel in that fact.
    Posted by goheels05[/QUOTE]

    Mm.. I see what you're saying.  I posit that things have gotten better in some ways-- even if it's just change in international opinion.  Anyone who thought there would be immediate changes is just as bad as someone who will only vote for one party, rather than making educated choices.  Unfortunately, I think that Bush used up the "good name" of the Republican party for that last election.  I remember when Bush and McCain were going at it in the primaries and McCain was clearly the better choice.  But he didn't get the nod from the party because he wasn't "party enough".  I was really interested with what he would do/say during the election because I had a good former opinion of him.  Frankly, I was horribly disappointed in him.  In order to get the nomination, he changed his tone on SO many issues that are important to me, and he overall sounded so war mongering and... wrong.  Then, with his choice of Palin, it kind of nailed the coffin shut for me. 
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    Amoro, I tried to PM, but I'm still having glitches in starting PMs.

    I love your new signature photo.

    It's amazing.

    The end.
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    Frankly, I was horribly disappointed in him.  In order to get the nomination, he changed his tone on SO many issues that are important to me, and he overall sounded so war mongering and... wrong.  Then, with his choice of Palin, it kind of nailed the coffin shut for me.

    I think he took the "war mongering" stance because he wanted to try to show that Obama didn't know squat about the war, nor have the experience to lead the country at war.  It definitely hurt him, IMO.  I thought McCain clearly could have had the edge had he tried to campaign for himself, and not compaign the pitfalls of Obama.  He just wasted too much time and energy saying what Obama would do wrong and not what McCain would do right.   AND PALIN.  I'll never understand that choice. 

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    Re: party divisions. I'm a Libertarian and I'm really fearful that the Libertarian party will never have enough recognition to hang with a Rep. or Dem. candidate. I'm a huge Ron Paul supporter, and I think he's probably going to run again in 2012. I just don't think he or his party will ever be in the spotlight enough to garner a response from the American public.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-article-sfw?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c9d88cbb-345c-4f4a-a86d-253b380b6626Post:0dac9db4-cfe9-4121-9c20-a19e9d15f99c">Re: Interesting Article (SFW)</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting Article (SFW) : Mm.. I see what you're saying.  I posit that things have gotten better in some ways-- even if it's just change in international opinion.  Anyone who thought there would be immediate changes is just as bad as someone who will only vote for one party, rather than making educated choices.  Unfortunately, I think that Bush used up the "good name" of the Republican party for that last election.  I remember when Bush and McCain were going at it in the primaries and McCain was clearly the better choice.  But he didn't get the nod from the party because he wasn't "party enough".  I was really interested with what he would do/say during the election because I had a good former opinion of him.  Frankly, I was horribly disappointed in him.  In order to get the nomination, he changed his tone on SO many issues that are important to me, and he overall sounded so war mongering and... wrong.  Then, with his choice of Palin, it kind of nailed the coffin shut for me. 
    Posted by AmoroAgain[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I'm right there with you.  I was pulling for Romney, but even with him, it was sort of like the lesser of 2 (or 3) evils, for lack of a better phrase. 
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-article-sfw?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c9d88cbb-345c-4f4a-a86d-253b380b6626Post:a9016fe6-dfd0-4df2-aee5-cb2e6c5c8583">Re: Interesting Article (SFW)</a>:
    [QUOTE]Re: party divisions. I'm a Libertarian and I'm really fearful that the Libertarian party will never have enough recognition to hang with a Rep. or Dem. candidate. I'm a huge Ron Paul supporter, and I think he's probably going to run again in 2012. I just don't think he or his party will ever be in the spotlight enough to garner a response from the American public.
    Posted by laurenclaire1386[/QUOTE]

    Me too, but I think the dissatisfaction with the current administration, Congress, and the Republican and Democratic parties as a whole is going to give the Libertarian party it's best chance to shine in the next election.  It will be very interesting to see what happens, but I think a lot more people will be seriously considering other parties' candidates. 
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    That's what I'm hoping for too, Heels.
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