The Ring

ArynBaker

So as most of you know, I'm leaving FI very shortly. I've always heard that if the woman calls off the engagement then the ring should be returned to the man. Considering that FI owes me and our landlord a chunk of money, do you think in this case it would be okay for me to take it and sell it myself to ensure some of what he owes is returned? 

Meegles4

What are the laws in your state? I'd figure that out so you know you're standing on solid ground if he tries to come after you for it.

I've sort of followed your posts in some of the morning and evening threads. Sorry you're going through this and that it's ending up this way :-(

adamar15

I kept my ring when I broke up with my fiance.  He let my mom put a good chunk down on it, and the payments came out of our joint account.

Anysunrise

You miiiight check your state law, because I think some have a dealy where if you break it off, legally you have to give it back? If NC doesn't do that, then I think absolutely you should sell it.

ArynBaker

Good point Meegles. The law in our state says I should return it, but he doesn't have the financial means to fight me for it. 

SB1512

I would keep the ring, and perhaps explain your reasoning to him for keeping it.  In the event he does drag you to court over it, it sounds like he doesn't have solid ground to stand on because of the financial situation

baystateapple

I'm sorry, Aryn.

I would make sure you're very, very certain that he's not going to try to take you to court on this, before selling it.  I know that you said he doesn't have the money to fight you for it, but I would still make sure anyway.  And then yes, I would probably sell it.

midgetthemighty

As long as it's not against the law in your state, keep it and sell it. I'm sorry about your whole situation. *massive hugs*

Meegles4

Yeah, then I'd go with what SB (and Liatris) said. Definitely give him the heads up as to why. Hopefully he's reasonable and realizes that by you selling the ring to pay off the landlord (and yourself), then you're letting him out of having to deal with that mess.

ETA: STOP CENTERING MY POSTS, TK!!!

MyUserName1

Have you considered writing up a contract?  Put in writing how much he owes you and that you are keeping the ring as partial payment for that amount

Meegles4

ooo, muni is smart (duh)! Also, I love your new sig pic!

DreamCLG7

when I broke off my engagement, I returned the ring. I wish I would have kept it and soldthat beast. it would have made me feel better.

i say keep it

edited for spelling

Callmefia

Aryn, Sorry about this. I saw it awhile back when you first started posting about it.

Small claims court is really cheap and easy, so he could definitely take you to small claims court even though you said he doesn't have the financial means to come after you. Atleast in our state (Ohio) its only a small filing fee (like $75). My guess is that his family or a friend would front him the money if the ring is worth enough to try to come after you. You don't need a lawyer in small claims and its pretty much frowned upon.  

So I'm on the same page as MUNI - I would write up a contract, both sign and have a witness or two, and a copy for each of you that you are keeping the ring in payment of what he owes you. (I wouldn't say ANYTHING about the landlord being owed unless the landlord can hold you responsible for his share of the rent).   If you have a dollar amount of what he owes you, you might even consider an appraisal on the ring to show that it is similar value etc... I would consider having an appraisal before you sell it, just in case he does try to come after you for it; that way you have record of what it was worth if you do go to court.

The other thing, considering his money situation, are you sure he doesn't still owe on the ring? If he does, you might not be allowed to sell it?

 I know I might sound really negative and maybe you really don't think he will be that upset by it... but when my sister went through her divorce, the ex was kind of a jerk and seemed like he would do anything to get revenge on her for leaving... sad stuff.

adamar15

<div align="left">In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_the-ring?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:f49759b6-ae69-4ae0-b279-bc8c57fbfd46Post:a25d5c57-af98-4b77-9207-7cd47eb58758">Re: The Ring</a>:
[QUOTE]when I broke off my engagement, I returned the ring. I wish I would have kept it and soldthat beast.<strong> it would have made me feel better</strong>. i say keep it edited for spelling
Posted by DreamCLG7[/QUOTE]

You wouldn't have felt better if he had sued you for the ring if you had kept it.  This isn't something you can just base on feelings. </div>

ArynBaker

Muni is smart and has a fabulous sig pic! 

Since I still plan on breaking it off once I'm gone (he can be emotionally manipulative) do you wise ladies think it's reasonable for me to take the ring with me, tell him from a distance my reasoning, and if he throws a tantrum to high heaven just mail it back to him? 

DreamCLG7

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_the-ring?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:f49759b6-ae69-4ae0-b279-bc8c57fbfd46Post:a471800d-e8b4-4012-93dc-2576d78fc469">Re: The Ring</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Ring : You wouldn't have felt better if he had sued you for the ring if you had kept it.  This isn't something you can just base on feelings. 
Posted by adamar15[/QUOTE]

he wouldn't have sued me, thanks.

baystateapple

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_the-ring?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:f49759b6-ae69-4ae0-b279-bc8c57fbfd46Post:8ff14094-3d8e-4f21-b73a-2aa351995956">Re: The Ring</a>:
[QUOTE]Muni is smart and has a fabulous sig pic!  Since I still plan on breaking it off once I'm gone (he can be emotionally manipulative) do you wise ladies think it's reasonable for me to take the ring with me, tell him from a distance my reasoning, and if he throws a tantrum to high heaven just mail it back to him? 
Posted by ArynBaker[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't mail it back.  Too many things can go wrong.  Or he can claim he never got it.  I'd give it to someone who you trust to bring it back to him.

ArynBaker

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_the-ring?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:f49759b6-ae69-4ae0-b279-bc8c57fbfd46Post:a471800d-e8b4-4012-93dc-2576d78fc469">Re: The Ring</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Ring : You wouldn't have felt better if he had sued you for the ring if you had kept it.  <strong>This isn't something you can just base on feelings. </strong>
Posted by adamar15[/QUOTE]

<div>This is why I asked yall. You can think about this way more objectively than I can at the moment. </div>

Smash Adams

The engagement ring is generally a gift given in contemplation of marriage, so if the marriage doesn't follow through, then the ring-giver is the proper owner of the ring.  Generally speaking.

I think taking it with you when you break it off with him from afar is fine, and then if he freaks out, give it back.  But like Bay said, I wouldn't mail it because it's too easy for him to claim that he never received it.  

You could suggest to him that in lieu of you pursuing him for whatever money he owes you (I don't know the back story), you would just keep the ring and make sure you get it in writing that this satisfies his debt to you (or that portion of it).

And weirdly enough, I have to add the disclaimer that this isn't legal advice, I'm not licensed to practice law, etc.  (I know that's obnoxious but apparently it's a thing)

adamar15

<div align="left">In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_the-ring?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:f49759b6-ae69-4ae0-b279-bc8c57fbfd46Post:5abb9ff5-129b-4571-8f5e-bcec59534c14">Re: The Ring</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Ring : he wouldn't have sued me, thanks.
Posted by DreamCLG7[/QUOTE]

You have no way of knowing that for sure.

Aryn, I would definitely take it with you and mail it back if it looks like you need to.

ETA: Good call on mailing it, Bay.  I didn't think of that.</div>

Smash Adams

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_the-ring?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:f49759b6-ae69-4ae0-b279-bc8c57fbfd46Post:39a8dc92-e606-40da-a206-c2f6cb09606c">Re: The Ring</a>:
[QUOTE]You could always mail it certified or with signature confirmation.
Posted by Liatris2010[/QUOTE]
The only thing that makes me nervous about this is that it's a signature that he received the package, but he could still claim the ring was missing or something.

Habs2Hart

Aryn, as PP's have said, this is what I would do.

I would get records of what he owes you (not the landlord unless you can be held accountable like previously mentioned).

I would get the ring appraised (or is it already?) Anyway, have the appraisal on hand and ready for documentation.

I would write out a letter stating he owes you such and such money, but you will accept the ring as payment for his debts.  If the ring is sold for more than the debts, tell him you will give him back the remaining amount.  Jewellery isn't sold for how much it appraises for, just remember that.

Sign it, with a witness, 3 copies.  Send two by registered mail to him, with copies of the appraisal and records showing what you are owed.  Make sure there is a long paper trail.  Ask that he signs the documents and returns one of them to you.  If you have a mutual friend you can trust, ask them to be the witness. 

It would be better if you can do it in person, but if not, there are other ways to do it.

Good luck.  I hope it all works out for you. 

StefffiC

No advice, but hugs to you.

aragx6

Everyone here is very smart and I have nothing to add other than I'm sorry you have to deal with this ish, and I hope everything works out well for you!

baystateapple

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_the-ring?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:f49759b6-ae69-4ae0-b279-bc8c57fbfd46Post:61a6c800-6011-427b-85d3-aadce311ac57">Re: The Ring</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Ring : The only thing that makes me nervous about this is that it's a signature that he received the package, but he could still claim the ring was missing or something.
Posted by Smash Adams[/QUOTE]
This.  This is how the jump drive with our wedding pictures got stolen.  Or he could claim that he received the package, but the ring wasn't inside it.

I just wouldn't trust the mail system.  Or him.  I'd get someone that I KNEW I could trust (a mutual friend, a parent, whomever) to bring the ring to him in person.  Someone who could swear, in court if necessary, that they returned the ring.

rsanna

I don't have any advice, but I hope everything works out.  Good luck and I'm sorry you're going through this.  

OliveOilsMom

I agree with the contract talk above.  I thinks Habs suggestions about the multiple mailings will work best.  Write that any communication regarding your contract must be done in writing, either email or snail mail.  You will not discuss the issue over the phone.  I would also include a stamped return envelope, so he would have no excuses as to why he couldn't return his signed copy.

Also, if in the end you do need to return the ring to him.  You can always hire a courier to deliver it.  The ones we use at work must certify their pick up and deliveries.  It would cost more than the USPS, but you would have higher piece of mind and the courier would be a neutral party to everything.

BTCarolus

On small claims court, which is definitely pretty cheap and easily accessible, the only thing that would prohibit him using it would be the value of the ring. Most courts have a limit on what can be brought to a small claims court, so if the limit is $5,000 and the ring is valued at $8,000, he wouldn't be able to sue you there. But if it is only valued at $2,500, small claims court is fair game. Also, if he hasn't paid it off, the original jewelry store or their debt-collector might come directly after you.

Take note of what Habs said about appraisal value v. re-sale value. An appraisal for insurance purposes is basically looking at what you would need to receive from insurance to replace the item with an equally nice item. However, jewelry, especially e-rings, actually usually re-sell for far less than their purchase or appraisal prices. This is different if the ring were really high value like a million dollar ring custom made by a famous boutique jeweller or an antique ring, (especially an antique with a history demonstrated by a confirmed provenance, like a Rockefeller once wore it or something). But if this is just a sort of average engagement ring, even a $25,000 engagement ring from Tiffany's, expect to see it lose 50% or more of its value. (Incidentally, he can still probably sue you for appraisal or purchase value.)

crash2729

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_the-ring?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:f49759b6-ae69-4ae0-b279-bc8c57fbfd46Post:fc4261e9-b927-407b-a920-6c336cbf53fb">Re: The Ring</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Ring : I wouldn't mail it back.  Too many things can go wrong.  Or he can claim he never got it.  I'd give it to someone who you trust to bring it back to him.
Posted by baystateapple[/QUOTE]
If he throws a fit over it, I would UPS it. 
That way you can track it and it will show who signed for it. 

I also think there is an option where you can have it NOT be left at the door if he's not home. <div>
</div><div>*hugs*</div><div>
</div><div>ETA:I just read the part about he could claim it wasn't in the box. 
I think he could also do this with the person (She never showed up, etc.) without something in writing, it could just turn into he said/she said.</div>

pkontk

Aryn, do you have a mutual friend you can trust to deliver it if he wants it back?  Or a person who would go with you to return it? 

baystateapple

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_the-ring?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:f49759b6-ae69-4ae0-b279-bc8c57fbfd46Post:e7c0b704-a52f-4878-8662-f24396f6e809">Re: The Ring</a>:
[QUOTE]Aryn, I'm running in real quick between phone calls, but if this hasn't been covered yet, please consider how incredibly difficult it is to get money for a pre-owned ring.  Any jeweler will not give you what was paid for it, because it needs to be resold so that the retailer can make a profit.  Sometimes it's better to just give it back and let him have the headache.  Also, you will not get the value at which it's appraised, because that amount factors in loss/theft and appreciation, since it will likely cost more to replace the ring later due to fluctuations in the economy, gold market, diamond prices, etc.  Big old hugs to you hon.
Posted by EaglesBride2012[/QUOTE]
Yeah, this.

I pawned a ring an ex-friend of mine gave me.  I didn't get one-TENTH its market value.  I was desperate for rent money so it didn't matter to me, but seriously...you won't get close to what it's worth.