Problems with Church...should I be honest

akcrrr

I needed a place to vent and hopefully get some advice. 

My FI and I are getting married in the Catholic Church and I just got a call from the priest who will be marrying us saying that he wants to meet with us to discuss how "seriously" we are taking the wedding as we haven't been to church as much as we should. 

I could make a million excuses for why we haven't been going (and some of them are valid including us moving into a new house, the flooding over the past few weeks, and my fiance having to work every 4th Sunday), but what really turned me off to the whole thing is the pre cana that we attended a few months ago. 

I disagree with some things the church teaches (I went to Catholic grammar, high school and college) but always try to give them the benefit of the doubt. At precana all they did was talk about how people should not have premarital sex or abortions and that you should not use birth control. This was supposed to be a class to teach us how to have a better marriage...

Aside from that every single thing we do is another "mandatory" donation. For the church, for the priest, the organist, the altar boy, the required classes. 

While I want to get married in the church (and I don't plan on changing that) I want to be honest with the priest about why I haven't been going but I am affraid he might say well then don't get married in the church. 

Ugh...sorry for the long post...

NJhousewife22

I think you can be honest without giving too much information (i.e., saying you had wished the class you attended had been more in depth on how to have a strong marriage, but not necessarily delving into the "we don't share the church's beliefs"). It's obviously important that you get married in the Catholic church, even though you don't 100% share the belief system, so I think if you can articulate why it's important for you guys to start your marriage that way, then I don't think they would turn you away, especially if you are paying. 

alykat216

My original priest questioned us on living together and the fact that we do not attend mass.  He made a comment that he was worried we would not have a successful marriage because of the two.  I felt HORRIBLE after he said that and wasn't sure what to do.  I was very involved in the church growing up but as I got older I strayed, it is still very important to me to get married in church because I know I will go back to attending mass and raise my children Catholic.  This priest was not in my church anymore, I found him and asked him to come back and marry us.  After he made those comments I just felt it wasn't the right fit for us anymore, I didn't want to have to lie or feel like we were total sinners.  I told him that I felt it would be better for us to use a priest that is in my church now.  I changed to a priest from my church that I knew was a little more laid back and it was the right decision, we have had a great experience so far. 

mbcdefg

I think it's fine to say that you were hoping that the Pre-Cana would be about marriage more than birth control, and that you'd rather they just say that there are "fees" rather than "donations." You can always go to another Pre-Cana session at a different church if you feel like you could use some more prep work (and it's not like the Church's view on sex and birth control is a secret, so I'm sure going into this you may have had an inkling that this topic might come up), and you can always say, "I'm fine with paying a fee so let's not call it a donation since it's required," or you can just let that part roll off your back.

But if you're not attending Mass, then I think he's asking you a very valid question. I can appreciate why these things have irritated you, but Pre-Cana and wedding fees/donations are a one-time thing. You're ideally going to be Catholics for life and therefore should be attending Masses, will likely be his argument. The wedding prep isn't the same as Mass.

Have these things turned you off of this particular church, and you're attending Mass elsewhere? Or have they turned you off from attending Mass, period? 

Again, I can understand why these things would annoy you. But they've really got nothing to do with weekly Mass in the end (because you'll only deal with it for your wedding and that's it), and I think that's the bone he's got to pick with you. I can definitely appreciate that everyone has their own set of beliefs, but attending Mass is a pretty core Catholic value to the priests, so I don't think that disliking Pre-Cana and donation fees is going to fly with him.

Why DO you want to get married in the church, if you don't want to attend Mass? (Serious question, not sarcastic.)

cindyn9178

I can understand where you are coming from. We are getting married in a Catholic church and we do not attend mass at all. (it has been years). I know many people would have an issue with that and ask us why we are getting married in the church.
For us personally, while we are not super religious or even really practicing the religion in our daily lives (sex before marriage, living together, not attending mass), we still consider ourselves Catholics (again, some people would question that), and in our eyes, part of being Catholic is getting married by a Priest, in a Catholic church, just as part of being Catholic is getting bapitized and making your First Holy Communion.
That being said, we were lucky enough that he Priest never once questioned us about whether or not we attend mass. We had a different kind of "pre-cana" program to go through, so it wasn't all about not having sex and not using birth control...
However, there is a way to be honest without going into complete detail and also without lying.
Personally, if the Priest were to ask us why we hadn't attended Mass, I would say that over the years, we have unfortunately grown apart from the church, but we are making a positive decision in wanting to get married in the Church, and just leave it at that.
If the Priest took that to made us feel guilty about not attending mass, then I'd look for another Priest that was more accepting of us (such as the one that is marrying us).
By the way, I completely agree with you about the mandatory donations to all of those things and I definitely do not agree with all of the church's teachings..but that is another story in and of itself.

ETA - If the Priest really told you that you "haven't been to church as much as you should" that is pretty messed up IMO. I wouldn't want to be married by a Priest that was going to judge me like that. While attending Mass is an important part of the religion, it is nobody's right to tell me how often I SHOULD be attending.

akcrrr

FI and I want to get married in the church because we believe in God and want to raise our children (when we have them) in the church. I had a wonderful experience growing up in the church and want to continue to have that. 

I grew up going to church every Sunday, no matter what, and I still go on holidays and when I can. Now I know I might get a lot of crap for saying this but I do not feel you have to go to church every Sunday to show your devotion to God or that you believe. Religion is much more about your values and how you live your life then if you go to a building for an hour every Sunday. 

I 100% admit that I should go to church more often and I am going to tell the Preist that.

I do not feel like I need more preperation or counseling before the wedding, I have no doubt that my fiance and I are meant to be together and I believe that God brought us together. 

WHAT I HATE is that the church made a whole big deal about marriage being sacred and us having to do all of these things to "prepare" us for our lives together when that does not seem to be the case at all. 

shoebie

We are getting married in theh Catholic church (a strict one) and need to do 8 months once a week for 2 hours of religious education because I was never confirmed and fi is Methodist so one of us need to be confirmed. To be married in the curch under god you need to play by their rules .... do I agree no.... sounds like they put you through gods plan and pre cana which is rough. Be honest with him tell him you mvoed and their was flooding but if you plan on being married their absolutly do not tell him you do not agree with gods plan if you do not believe in gods plan there is no reason to be married in the catolic church. I am 24 living with fi and we have a 4 year old daughter so trust me we have been there and back with getting bitched at by the church. You really need to sit down with fi and think about how bad you want to be married there, you have 2 months to go so thatsroughly 8 sundays for 1 hour you need to commit to god if you want it you will do it, Im sure the last thing you want is for him to deny your marriage after your invites are already out which they absolutly can. Please do not think I am a crazy Catholic freak I have not gone to church since i was ummm 4? and my grandma moved to Florida but she was very religious and always wanted us to marry in a church my older brother went through all of this in her memory and so will I and I hope my other 3 siblings will too when its their day. If your still reading this hang in there smile nod and never voulenteer information keep your answers on point and be very apologetic after the wedding your free. lol Best of luck to you !

ginabean82

I grew up Catholic going to church every Sunday.  But all that you mentioned has really turned me off to churches in general.  The whole pre-cana thing, the no living together before marriage, the no sex before marriage, the mandatory "donations".  I think that's why most people get turned off to church.  And honestly I havent stepped inside of a church in close to 15 years (since I made my confirmation) Because of this I knew I never wanted to get married in a church.  I'm totally not against people getting married in churches, I just wish they were all more laid back because then I think more people would do it.

cindyn9178

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/local-wedding-boards_new-jersey_problems-churchshould-honest?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Local%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:90Discussion:065e5dbd-187e-401f-8952-4792ca1c5f60Post:9ba97fae-0d95-4e60-abd7-3364ca5a0b0e">Re: Problems with Church...should I be honest</a>:
[QUOTE]We are getting married in theh Catholic church (a strict one) and<strong> need to do 8 months once a week for 2 hours of religious education because I was never confirmed and fi is Methodist so one of us need to be confirmed. To be married in the curch under god you need to play by their rules .... </strong>do I agree no.... sounds like they put you through gods plan and pre cana which is rough. Be honest with him tell him you mvoed and their was flooding but if you plan on being married their absolutly do not tell him you do not agree with gods plan if you do not believe in gods plan there is no reason to be married in the catolic church. I am 24 living with fi and we have a 4 year old daughter so trust me we have been there and back with getting bitched at by the church. You really need to sit down with fi and think about how bad you want to be married there, you have 2 months to go so thatsroughly 8 sundays for 1 hour you need to commit to god if you want it you will do it, Im sure the last thing you want is for him to deny your marriage after your invites are already out which they absolutly can. Please do not think I am a crazy Catholic freak I have not gone to church since i was ummm 4? and my grandma moved to Florida but she was very religious and always wanted us to marry in a church my older brother went through all of this in her memory and so will I and I hope my other 3 siblings will too when its their day. If your still reading this hang in there smile nod and never voulenteer information keep your answers on point and be very apologetic after the wedding your free. lol Best of luck to you !
Posted by shoebie420[/QUOTE]
Well yes, in order to get married in the Catholic church, at least one of you needs to be confirmed.. so yes, you have to go through the classes so you can get confirmed. You cannot get the sacrament of marriage until you've received your other sacraments. That is just part of the religion, otherwise, anybody and everybody could just get married in the Catholic church.

mbcdefg

But here's a general question for the whole board, if anyone wants to discuss it ... why should the Church have to be more laid-back and change its expectations just because you (general/collective "you") don't agree with their rules?

I mean, would you expect a sorority to initiate you as a member if you said, "Well, I don't think I should have to pay dues or do all of the volunteer work, and I only want to go to one meeting a year, but I still want to wear the letters sweatshirt"?

I totally agree that one's spirituality should be one's own decision, and they should worship as they see fit, but I don't think it's fair to hold it against a specific religion just because their rules aren't enjoyable. In that case, find a religion that's more in-sync with your own personal values and how you want to worship.

cindyn9178

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/local-wedding-boards_new-jersey_problems-churchshould-honest?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Local%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:90Discussion:065e5dbd-187e-401f-8952-4792ca1c5f60Post:326fe3c1-8644-44ce-89a8-bca98301554b">Re: Problems with Church...should I be honest</a>:
[QUOTE]But here's a general question for the whole board, if anyone wants to discuss it ... why should the Church have to be more laid-back and change its expectations just because you (general/collective "you") don't agree with their rules? I mean, would you expect a sorority to initiate you as a member if you said, "Well, I don't think I should have to pay dues or do all of the volunteer work, and I only want to go to one meeting a year, but I still want to wear the letters sweatshirt"? I totally agree that one's spirituality should be one's own decision, and they should worship as they see fit, but I don't think it's fair to hold it against a specific religion just because their rules aren't enjoyable. In that case, find a religion that's more in-sync with your own personal values and how you want to worship.
Posted by mbcdefg[/QUOTE]
I don't necessarily think they need to be "more laid back".. but many of the beliefs of the church are based on life thousands of years ago. Things have changed, society has changed.. and I feel that the church should adapt, at least a little bit for today's society. And many Priests have changed (including ours), many of the older more traditional ones haven't.

akcrrr

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/local-wedding-boards_new-jersey_problems-churchshould-honest?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Local%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:90Discussion:065e5dbd-187e-401f-8952-4792ca1c5f60Post:326fe3c1-8644-44ce-89a8-bca98301554b">Re: Problems with Church...should I be honest</a>:
[QUOTE]But here's a general question for the whole board, if anyone wants to discuss it ... why should the Church have to be more laid-back and change its expectations just because you (general/collective "you") don't agree with their rules? I mean, would you expect a sorority to initiate you as a member if you said, "Well, I don't think I should have to pay dues or do all of the volunteer work, and I only want to go to one meeting a year, but I still want to wear the letters sweatshirt"? I totally agree that one's spirituality should be one's own decision, and they should worship as they see fit, but I don't think it's fair to hold it against a specific religion just because their rules aren't enjoyable. In that case, find a religion that's more in-sync with your own personal values and how you want to worship.
Posted by mbcdefg[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>it isn't that I feel the church should change with the collective "you" it is that I feel the church has changed and not for the better. </div><div>People used to feel a sense of community going to church, they went because they believed in God yes, but they also went to be part of something. </div><div>
</div><div>Growing up we were always doing something in the church. Festivals, Soup Kitchens, etc, not because we felt obligated but because we wanted to. It seems as if the church no longer cares about a lot of it's members. Of course people need to believe in the core values of the church and they should make sacrafices to be part of something they believe in but they should not feel guilted or shamed into doing things and it should not be a one way relationship. </div><div>
</div><div>Should the Church say yes, you can have premarital sex, and live together before marriage, and use birth control, and not go to church on Sunday...no....I don't believe that they should. But, just like any other organization, they should listen to there members. If membership in Catholic churches is dwindling, but it is rising in other religions, then maybe they should take a step back and think long and hard about why that is. The rules of the church were made by men and me not believing that some of them are 100% true does not make me any less of a Catholic. </div><div>
</div><div>In regards to the marrigae prep. Everywhere you look people are saying "well I don't understand why so many people are getting divorced, etc". But if your "marriage" prep class just consists of don't have sex without trying to have a baby and don't have an abortion OR ELSE then what do you expect? </div><div>They should be teaching people how to communicate with each other and with God, teaching people how to make God and Religion a part of their life. They should teach people about how to manage their finances and how to weather bad times and it should be taught while saying that the church will always be there for them to help along the way. </div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

USER876

I think a lot of these issues are unique to the catholic religion.  I would encourage you to seek out another church in the christian community, there are many.  Same beliefs, but more relaxed and not as many "man made rules"

PeteandJen

FI and I have gone through PreCana and God's Will, and they both touched on the no sex before marriage and no birth control, especially on the wedding night because the marriage isn't true unless you can conceive. I don't agree with all of that, but they had so much more in these classes. I feel like you got a bad experience. We had several speakers, one who spent an hour on financial, she went over how to have a healthy marriage, and even what documents we should fill out to ensure we have our wishes known for the future with our future spouses.

They even had an entire section on communication, and a workbook with questions to refelect with your fiance. I feel like you had a bad experience, because if all they had told us was no sex before marriage, no living together and no birth control I would have been just as turned off. I understand the frustration, we had our priest over our home, where we live together, and he made no remarks, he was happy for us and we had a nice dinner. He is also not a priest we knew very well, but has been very open to us, even though we don't attend mass like we should.

I would consider changing priests, your experience should be enjoyable not stressful.

shoebie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/local-wedding-boards_new-jersey_problems-churchshould-honest?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Local%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:90Discussion:065e5dbd-187e-401f-8952-4792ca1c5f60Post:5579b7e7-b073-4466-bc3a-4c550be09c55">Re: Problems with Church...should I be honest</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Problems with Church...should I be honest : Well yes, in order to get married in the Catholic church, at least one of you needs to be confirmed.. so yes, you have to go through the classes so you can get confirmed. You cannot get the sacrament of marriage until you've received your other sacraments. That is just part of the religion, otherwise, anybody and everybody could just get married in the Catholic church.
Posted by cindyn9178[/QUOTE]

<div>Yes I am well aware of that I was jsut letting PP know others are going through the same hoops if not more </div>

cindyn9178

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/local-wedding-boards_new-jersey_problems-churchshould-honest?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Local%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:90Discussion:065e5dbd-187e-401f-8952-4792ca1c5f60Post:3d76fc25-62ec-4484-90d3-39e25c324e71">Re: Problems with Church...should I be honest</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Problems with Church...should I be honest : it isn't that I feel the church should change with the collective "you" it is that I feel the church has changed and not for the better.  People used to feel a sense of community going to church, they went because they believed in God yes, but they also went to be part of something.  Growing up we were always doing something in the church. Festivals, Soup Kitchens, etc, not because we felt obligated but because we wanted to. It seems as if the church no longer cares about a lot of it's members. Of course people need to believe in the core values of the church and they should make sacrafices to be part of something they believe in but they should not feel guilted or shamed into doing things and it should not be a one way relationship.  Should the Church say yes, you can have premarital sex, and live together before marriage, and use birth control, and not go to church on Sunday...no....I don't believe that they should. But, just like any other organization, they should listen to there members. If membership in Catholic churches is dwindling, but it is rising in other religions, then maybe they should take a step back and think long and hard about why that is. The rules of the church were made by men and me not believing that some of them are 100% true does not make me any less of a Catholic.  In regards to the marrigae prep. Everywhere you look people are saying "well I don't understand why so many people are getting divorced, etc".<strong> But if your "marriage" prep class just consists of don't have sex without trying to have a baby and don't have an abortion OR ELSE then what do you expect?  They should be teaching people how to communicate with each other and with God, teaching people how to make God and Religion a part of their life. They should teach people about how to manage their finances and how to weather bad times and it should be taught while saying that the church will always be there for them to help along the way. </strong>
Posted by akcrrr[/QUOTE]

I think this is a huge part of the reason why our Priest (head priest at our church), changed the "pre-cana" program that they require couples to go through (note, it is NOT required by the diocese, it is entirely up to each individual church what they want to require/not require).
He introduced a new program a couple years ago called "For Better and Forever". He assigns a "mentor couple" to the engaged couple, and you get a workbook with 16 chapters. You have to meet with them 6 times to go through everything in the book and it touched on everything, not just sex and birth control (they actually BARELY talked about that with us), but finances, communication, beliefs and much much more.
While it was kind of annoying having to go through such a long process as compared to the usual one or two day thing, I am glad we got to discuss all of those issues, and I really feel like it is a much better program than the typical pre-cana sessions. While we felt that most of the topics discussed were pretty self explanatory, and we had talked about them plenty of times already on our own, we could see how the program could be very beneficial to other couples.
Honestly, I'd ask your Priest/church about the "For Better and Forever" program, see if they are aware of it, and possibly interested in using it instead in the future.