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Political Question

Fellow knotties: I have a random political question for all of you and am interested in your viewpoints.

I have always been pro-gay marriage. I have my Master's in political science so I have always seen it as an equality issue and human rights issue. Now that I'm engaged, it has become a very emotional issue for me. I cannot imagine not being able to marry my man because other people didn't respect our union.

So in other words, even though my view hasn't switched sides, it has evolved. My question: have any of you switched your position on gay marriage after getting engaged? Was anyone against it and changed their minds when they were in a position to get married? I'm just curious, it's kind of an interesting juncture between values/beliefs and emotions.



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Re: Political Question

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    Nope my thoughts remain the same: people need to get hobbies. If you're concerned about someone else's loving relationship and its legal status, get a hobby.
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    No, nothing has ever changed for me. The only concern I have is promoting equality.
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    You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you marry a Muppet Overlord.

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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_political-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1d282355-3a27-4e5a-b070-8ade4bce47f5Post:54684055-ae7e-45e2-8665-964edaac2e81">Re: Political Question</a>:
    [QUOTE]My conviction that is needed to be legal only got stronger. Getting married in a state that allowed gay marriage- in a venue that had held several gay marriages and posted their pictures as proudly as any other couple - gave me the warm fuzzies. I tried to keep our ceremony as gender-nuetral as I could, because I didn't want my marriage to have wording that excluded gay couples.
    Posted by Harry87[/QUOTE]

    I have to say that I appreciate NH for approving gay marriage. I am proud of that.
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    You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you marry a Muppet Overlord.

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    Nothing has changed for I have always been pro-gay marriage.  It does make me feel bad that I am here all happy planning my wedding, knowing many of my friends can not legally marry.  I love how so many get engaged, and get married still.  Look forward to the day these stupid politics stop and people get over themselves.   
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    I actually was staunchly against it for *gasp* religious reasons for the longest time. It wasn't until I got to college and became great friends with gay people that I realized what I had been taught in church wasn't really what Scripture said. 

    I did a lot of questioning and decided that a God that created us to be in relationship would not be against gay marriage. This video solidified my forming opinions and gave me logical arguments. Then my pastors validated me and encouraged me to be an advocate in everything I do. I <3 my church. 
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    My views haven't changed about it. I have always thought that laws that cause more oppression and harm than good are stupid. Equal rights have never been just for whoever is popular right now, and not standing up for them jeopordizes everyone's rights. The country's ish list is ever changing, and you never know when you'll wake up on it. You had better have put a resiliant structure in place for protecting rights before that day.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_political-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1d282355-3a27-4e5a-b070-8ade4bce47f5Post:4dab2a6c-b7e7-44da-8418-545a8486440a">Re: Political Question</a>:
    [QUOTE]I actually was staunchly against it for *gasp* religious reasons for the longest time. It wasn't until I got to college and became great friends with gay people that I realized what I had been taught in church wasn't really what Scripture said.  I did a lot of questioning and decided that a God that created us to be in relationship would not be against gay marriage.  This video  solidified my forming opinions and gave me logical arguments. Then my pastors validated me and encouraged me to be an advocate in everything I do. I <3 my church. 
    Posted by audrewuh[/QUOTE]

    Thank you for your viewpoint.



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    I've always been pro-gay marriage.  

    Sadly LA (old state) and IN (new state) ban gay marriage.   IN might have come to a vote in the 2014 elections.  It's a pretty conservative so I would not be surprised if it didn't pass.  However that will not keep me from campaigning.  DH and I donate to the cause and Chef D even has a rainbow pin.

    My home state of DE has same-sex civil unions. I can't see it being too long before same-sex marriage is legal.  I've even heard rumors that it could happen this year.  WooHoo.

    Our friends are having their first gay marriage at their hotel in Chicago.  They are all pretty excited for the event.






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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    edited April 2013
    I was never against marriage equality.  I didn't become a strong supporter
    though until I saw the neighbors of friends of mine have the last of their time
    together destroyed by the family of the one who was dying.  They went to
    court to have all of the end of life directives and medical power of attorney
    nullified and then kept the partner of three decades out of the hospital room
    because "he wasn't family."  They then went on to challenge the will, took
    the house and all of the property because "it belonged to the family." 


    This is why I get so freakin irate whenever someone says that gay
    people can draw up paperwork to have all of the legal protections that a married
    couple has.  They can....and then a court can take it all away.  That
    cannot happen to a spouse.
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    I agree with pretty much everyone else. I've never been against it. Getting married and celebrating made me wish that ALL my friends could do the same legally! The SSM ban didn't pass in my state and a bill legalizing SSM is ready for a vote on the state senate and house floors. It won't be voted on for a while I'm sure, but it's getting there. Our governor said he'd sign it if it makes it to him, and I'm really hoping it does!
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    In Response to Re:Political Question:[QUOTE]I was never against marriage equality.nbsp; I didn't become a strong supporter though until I saw the neighbors of friends of mine have the last of their time together destroyed by the family of the one who was dying.nbsp; They went to court to have all of the end of life directives and medical power of attorney nullified and then kept the partner of three decades out of the hospital room because "he wasn't family."nbsp; They then went on to challenge the will, took the house and all of the property because "it belonged to the family."nbsp; This is why I get so freakin irate whenever someone says that gay people can draw up paperwork to have all of the legal protections that a married couple has.nbsp; They can....and then a court can take it all away.nbsp; That cannot happen to a spouse. Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]


    This is the best example of how totally unfair the prohibition on gay marriage affects us. Of course, the tax benefits and rights of survivorship and social security, etc etc etc would be awesome. But this example is brutal and sadly, it is not uncommon.

    We carry our papers with us all the time. We are registered domestic partners, have the same last name, have medical power of attorney for each other and it can easily be challenged by either of our families. I worry about this often.
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    I used to be anti-gay marriage. My church told me it was wrong, so I listened and believed.  Getting engaged didn't change my viewpoint, growing up did.  I am christian, and have a very strong belief in Christ.  But my views on gay marriage differ from  a lot of Christians my age.  I don't see how this is still even an issue. It still is beyond me how gay marriage has not been legalized in all states.  Being engaged, and now thinking about it, it would tear me apart if I was being told I couldn't marry my FI. I can' imagine how that feels and my heart aches for those who are going through this.
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    I've always been pro-equality. Hopefully Prop 8 gets overturned, my friends and family are really hopeful. I have a few people in my life who oppose it for religious reasons so it's something we don't talk about. They're entitled to their opinion just like I am with mine.
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    I have always been pro-equality in marriage and can't imagine having any other belief. I can't believe the hypocrisy in religions saying that the government is impinging on their religious rights then turning around and saying the government needs to prohibit same sex marriage. If same sex marriage is against your religion, then just don't get a same sex marriage. Don't try to control other people's love lives.

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    I agree with PPs; I've always been pro-marriage equality, and getting engaged hasn't changed that. 

    I was really mad when Amendment 1 passed in NC last spring. I voted against it, of course, but the state as a whole voted for it. The news photographs the next day showed people just celebrating the fact that we'd voted to disallow loving couples from getting married.
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    I've always been pro-equality, even as a Catholic.  Now that I'm getting married, it makes me happy to know that I'm getting married in a state who embraces ALL marriages!
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    I'm a Conservative/Libertarian and I just think government needs to get out of the marriage business completely.  Marriage is a religious institution not a civil one.

    I think that the government should recognize all civil unions (same sex or otherwise) and if people then want a religious ceremony they can also have that performed on the same day so their marriage is recognized by their particular church.  People shouldn't need the government's "permission" to live their lives.
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    I was raised to be against a great many things. I was anti gay marriage, didn't believe that interracial couples should happen, that people of different races were 'lesser'..and I believed it. My grandparents raised me to think this way. My parents never really said much on it, I guess they sort of 'left' it to my grandparents.

    There wasn't a particular day that I just.. changed. I think as I grew up and formed independant views and thoughts, I realized that that way of thinking was wrong, but it also wasn't my grandparents fault. That's how THEY were raised, and it's hard to convince them otherwise when a vast majority of their lives were spent in 'white' places. My great grandfather was part of the KKK, and it's something that I'm ashamed of.

    I am a hundred and ten percent for marriage equality, and our country still shames me greatly that this is STILL an issue. My great grandchildren are going to be shocked and disgusted at the way we treated same sex couples, just as people my age are shocked at the racism that happened during our grandparents time. 

    My mother jokes that I'm so open minded that my brain is going to fall out, but I have sat down with both my parents and explained same sex marriage, that everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) deserves to be happy, and they have actually changed their viewpoint and agree with me. Makes my heart proud :)

    But, it is possible to be raised in ignorance and come out okay. At least I think I did.
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    I'm going to agree with AprilH81 on this one. Personally, I don't think the government should have a say in marriage at all. But, don't get me wrong, I am all for everyone having the same legal spousal rights. I just am not a fan that the government is trying to ditcate this.

    To answer the question, though, no. My views have not changed since I got engaged.
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    edited April 2013
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_political-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1d282355-3a27-4e5a-b070-8ade4bce47f5Post:92068934-d20c-46b2-84ba-629223cdf132">Re: Political Question</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Political Question : See, here is what I don't get though.  Why do you have an issue with the government "dictating" a completely secular idea that has been around since before most major religions were even founded?  
    Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

    <div>This is where our views differ, Stage. I believe that marriage is a "religious thing" and has been around longer than any government. Now, if we/the government/etc were to agree that everyone (religious or not) has to sign "civil union" paperwork or whatever, then everyone has the same rights. There would be nothing that would mean you are "more or less" legally bound. The difference would be that marriage is not a contract. The civil union would be. Marriage (as defined by the Bible) is a sacred covenant. I think it should stay that way.</div><div>
    </div><div>Unfortunately, I do know that if this were to actually happen, there would be people who have the "holier than thou" attitude and would think "well since we're religious and had the religious ceremony, we're "more married" than that couple who isn't religious". Which completely sucks, I agree. </div><div>
    </div><div>ETA: The people who have the "holier than thou" attitudes even now annoy the snot out of me.</div>
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_political-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1d282355-3a27-4e5a-b070-8ade4bce47f5Post:20ffde5b-7f12-439b-97d2-4a482d870cde">Re: Political Question</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Political Question : It's not about permission. It's about being granted the same liberties and access with and to their loved ones. Though, I suppose by your viewpoint, I won't be getting 'married' either because there will be no religious aspect.  Methinks this viewpoint is that which is trying to redefine 'marriage', not the other.
    Posted by TheMissusLia[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>I think you may have misunderstood my post (or maybe I didn't explain myself well).  I don't think that people who get married without a religous ceremony should have fewer rights, I don't think that same sex couples should have fewer rights, I just believe that marriage is a religious institution NOT a legal institution. </div><div>
    </div><div>That is why I think for the legal rights (custody of children after a partner dies, wills, power of attorney, hospital visits, ect) a civil union for ANY couple would be recognized by the courts.  This would allow churches who do not approve of same sex marriages can still keep their own marriage traditions or whatever you want to call them.  If a church agrees to marry a same sex couple then great, if not they still have the legal protection of a civil union.  Does that make sense?

    </div>
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    edited April 2013
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_political-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1d282355-3a27-4e5a-b070-8ade4bce47f5Post:d8dee8f8-384c-481b-837d-858f308a608e">Re: Political Question</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Political Question : So what you are talking about is changing marriage by current legal definition to "civil unions" in name (because actual civil unions provide much less protection) and just taking out the word marriage?  See, I don't get why people get so riled up by a name.  Especially since, as I've said before, marriage is not a religious instituion.  It predates all of the Abrahamic religions, and marriage as we see and define it today doesn't actually exist in the Bible at all.
    Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

    <div>You make a very good point, Stage. For me, the name is a big deal because I'm stationed in the "words mean things" camp. Please don't think I don't think you know this - I know you do. It's to my understanding that the word "marriage" was first defined in the Bible. "Civil union" is something the government has created. I'm not saying that partnerships didn't exist prior to the recordings of the Bible - there just wasn't a defined word/term/name for it.</div><div>
    </div><div>I do think, though, that if the transition from "marriage" to "everyone is in a civil union" were to ever happen, then civil unions would need to have every single right/liberty/legality that marriage, as it is currently recognized by the government, has.</div><div>
    </div><div>I recognize, though, that the government has certainly helped improve on some things that the Bible states - such as the procedure for getting divorced. Back then all that needed to happen was the man say, "I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you." And then it was done. No, the woman couldn't do it. But - then again, the only reason he could ever say that to his wife is if she had committed adultery. But, that's entirely off topic.</div><div>
    </div><div>
    </div><div>ETA: PS Stage, I can't ever look at your posts without saying "Ar-kansas". I know I know. You probably hate it. Sorry...</div>
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_political-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:1d282355-3a27-4e5a-b070-8ade4bce47f5Post:84ed08b0-23b8-4d3b-9ac2-5df370fcf71e">Re: Political Question</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Political Question : You make a very good point, Stage. For me, the name is a big deal because I'm stationed in the "words mean things" camp. Please don't think I don't think you know this - I know you do.<strong> It's to my understanding that the word "marriage" was first defined in the Bible.</strong> "Civil union" is something the government has created. I'm not saying that partnerships didn't exist prior to the recordings of the Bible - there just wasn't a defined word/term/name for it. I do think, though, that if the transition from "marriage" to "everyone is in a civil union" were to ever happen, then civil unions would need to have every single right/liberty/legality that marriage, as it is currently recognized by the government, has. I recognize, though, that the government has certainly helped improve on some things that the Bible states - such as the procedure for getting divorced. Back then all that needed to happen was the man say, "I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you." And then it was done. No, the woman couldn't do it. But - then again, the only reason he could ever say that to his wife is if she had committed adultery. But, that's entirely off topic. ETA: PS Stage, I can't ever look at your posts without saying "Ar-kansas". I know I know. You probably hate it. Sorry...
    Posted by lplions[/QUOTE]

    Okay.  Our laws and government are not based on or dictated by the Bible, Torah, Koran or any other religious book.  Period.  If the bible happens to have the same laws that societies the world over have like "thou shalt not kill" that is not evidence that laws are based on the bible.

    Also, churches do not perform marriages.  They perform weddings.  There is not a law that can be created to force a religious instiution to perform a wedding.  There need to be laws that allow anyone to enter the legal state of marriage by getting a marriage license.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_political-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:1d282355-3a27-4e5a-b070-8ade4bce47f5Post:1cea330b-7188-452a-ab27-7bc8105e8e08">Re: Political Question</a>:
    [QUOTE]Actually, the word "marriage" didn't come around until around 1250.  It comes from the Latin maritus, which means "husband" or "man who is bethrothed/committed".  Latin, being a the language the Romans spoke even back in their polytheistic days.  It is NOT a word that originated with the Bible since the Bible is older than the English language.  Each time the word marriage or any of its' derivatives are in the Bible, it is because Maritus (or one of it's derivatives) was put there when the Bible was being translated from its multiple native languages (which also all have words for marriage and had them prior to the authors' lifetimes). Every single language known to man has had a word or phrase for marriage and spouse, and most if not all (I don't know enough to say all with certainty) have held wedding ceremonies, including the ancient Greeks and Egyptians well before the writing of the Bible and fully without influence of the Christian God.  So, while I agree that words mean things, I find this Christian certainty that marriage is a concept and word THEY came up with.  With all due respect, if you're going to tell me that words have meaning, please know the meaning and history behind the word. And don't get me STARTED on the Bible and homosexuality. ETA:  Please feel free to take the Aramaic or Hebrew words for marriage and make them your own.  I just don't understand why the Church has a claim on the English word.
    Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

    <div>I just need to say that I love all of this AND you for saying it so perfectly. </div>
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    edited April 2013
    I apologize first for any formatting/spelling issues, I'm replying on my phone. Stage, yes. I agree that the word "marriage" predates the Bible. I honestly don't know how to properly word what I am thinking; that's what I get for responding so late. It is good to read other people's perspective on this topic, I admit that. All I can do is hope that you do not think I am as I have been previously called by an old coworker a "Biblethumper". I respect you and all of the other ladies on TK and your opinions. Stage you always have an extremely persuasive response from what I have seen. And, to top it off, are extremely wellversed. Maybe I will think of a better response overnight. If I do, I'll respond again. If I don't, though, I think I will have to leave my thoughts as they are, rather than stumbling through an attempt at an intelligent meaningful response. ETA: GoodluckBear, I do not think that the Bible defines any laws set by our government. I agree that they are coincidences and/or similarities, but not duplicates.
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