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NER: Resume References

There was a post about this recently on here about what happens when someone wants to use you as a reference.

I just got a call from a company (they left a voicemail) asking me to give a reference for a girl we fired 1) for not doing any work and 2) for lying on FMLA paperwork (she submitted falsified documents).  We tried to fire her almost a year earlier but we think she invoked FMLA when she felt that we were going to so we had to wait. Then someone found discrepancies on her paperwork and tried to verify them and found they were fakes. I think the company is trying to get her to pay back insurance funds from that time.

So she uses me as a reference without asking me! That's happened to me a few times before. when they are people I would not give a reference to.

I think I'm just going to call back after hours to try to get voicemail and say that she worked here between X and Y dates. Done.
image   imageimage
You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you marry a Muppet Overlord.

Re: NER: Resume References

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    itzMSitzMS member
    First Answer First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Comment
    edited April 2013
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_ner-resume-references?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:91a62723-2ded-4d9f-bd10-6a18ac2ea990Post:6da6779f-b928-4835-a05b-3ef17621750d">NER: Resume References</a>:
    [QUOTE]There was a post about this recently on here about what happens when someone wants to use you as a reference. I just got a call from a company (they left a voicemail) asking me to give a reference for a girl we fired 1) for not doing any work and 2) for lying on FMLA paperwork (she submitted falsified documents).  We tried to fire her almost a year earlier but we think she invoked FMLA when she felt that we were going to so we had to wait. Then someone found discrepancies on her paperwork and tried to verify them and found they were fakes. I think the company is trying to get her to pay back insurance funds from that time. So she uses me as a reference without asking me! That's happened to me a few times before. when they are people I would not give a reference to. I think I'm just going to call back after hours to try to get voicemail and say that she worked here between X and Y dates. Done.
    Posted by MuppetFan[/QUOTE]

    That's fine. IMHO, you should also ask for a signed release from the ex-employee (through the inquiring company) before giving out any information. <em>Especially </em>with employees who caused issues in the past.
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    Because she was a bad employee, all you can legally say is that she was employeed for these dates, this was her salary range and maybe what her duties were.

     

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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_ner-resume-references?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:91a62723-2ded-4d9f-bd10-6a18ac2ea990Post:90891efc-ad9f-455b-b9a3-67943915b548">Re: NER: Resume References</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to NER: Resume References : That's fine. IMHO, you should also ask for a signed release from the ex-employee (through the inquiring company) before giving out any information. Especially with employees who caused issues in the past.
    Posted by itzMS[/QUOTE]

    If she listed me specifically as a reference, isn't that permission?

    Maybe I will just not respond to these folks. I really don't want to talk to her. She keeps trying to connect with me on LinkedIn. I suppose I can just send her a message asking her not to use me as a reference period.

    She told the president of the company he has no balls and she told her boss that he's a puppeteer because he tried to get her to do work and check in with him constantly.  She literally was doing no work. She was supposed to be outside sales and we weren't seeing any activity from her accounts so we asked her for her appointment logs and we called the people she claimed to have appts with and she hadn't talked to them in months.
    image   imageimage
    You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you marry a Muppet Overlord.

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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_ner-resume-references?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:91a62723-2ded-4d9f-bd10-6a18ac2ea990Post:a45972e4-c61f-4012-9c53-69d7bf50a290">Re: NER: Resume References</a>:
    [QUOTE]Because she was a bad employee, all you can legally say is that she was employeed for these dates, this was her salary range and maybe what her duties were.
    Posted by kjhowd[/QUOTE]

    That's what I thought and what I've done in the past.  I've been told that it's okay to say what you feel when it's a personal reference and that you have to minimalize and only give employment verification info when it's a negative professional reference.
    image   imageimage
    You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you marry a Muppet Overlord.

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    itzMSitzMS member
    First Answer First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Comment
    We HR people can be verryyyyy sneaky when we're doing references. When all else fails, get a release. It covers you in case she tries to come back at you for defamation of character if she doesn't get the job (even if you said nothing of the sort). I would also recommend asking the company if you could email or fax your reference response.

    This lady seems like she would try to push the issue given how you describe her.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_ner-resume-references?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:91a62723-2ded-4d9f-bd10-6a18ac2ea990Post:acfe31b9-b297-4c64-8a67-5c70d94b2a5d">Re: NER: Resume References</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: NER: Resume References : That's what I thought and what I've done in the past.  I've been told that it's okay to say what you feel when it's a personal reference and that you have to minimalize and only give employment verification info when it's a negative professional reference.
    Posted by MuppetFan[/QUOTE]

    Correct, if it's someone using you as a personal, not professional reference and they weren't a former coworker/employee, there is more latitude with what you can say.

    As a coworker/supervisor - you have to keep it to the basics.  It's pretty much an unwritten HR rule to know that when someone just gives you employment verification, it's not good.

     

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    I would say try and give the reference in writing.  Sounds like she is shady/crazy and she might be actually trying to pull a scam/sue you and your employee by knowing they you will give a bad reference.  Alot of companies will just verify employement dates, and this is why.   
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_ner-resume-references?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:91a62723-2ded-4d9f-bd10-6a18ac2ea990Post:acfe31b9-b297-4c64-8a67-5c70d94b2a5d">Re: NER: Resume References</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: NER: Resume References : That's what I thought and what I've done in the past.  I've been told that it's okay to say what you feel when it's a personal reference and that you have to minimalize and only give employment verification info when it's a negative professional reference.
    Posted by MuppetFan[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>If they call back, I would still stick to the basics and only give out employment verification.

    </div>






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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    I'm thinking that I might just avoid this trainwreck completely. I was not her supervisor and really, didn't even work with her. The VP of sales gave me the update recently. I knew they were trying to fire her and she invoked FMLA...I just found out about the fraud a few weeks ago.

    I'm not going to respond to the employer. If they call back, Is it okay to say that I don't really know her well enough to provide any information?

    I was thinking of sending this to her on Linkedin messages because I really don't want to get calls from more employers and I really dislike that she's given out my personal cell phone number to these people. Does this sound good:

    Dear XX,

    I hope all is well with you. I just received a message from suchandsuch company asking for a referall. Not having worked with you directly, I do not have input to provide and am uncomfortable discussing your employment with us with your potential employers.  Could you please remove my information from your resume?

    image   imageimage
    You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you marry a Muppet Overlord.

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    I really wish there were a general rule prohibiting legal advice on these boards. So much of it is really well intentioned, and wrong.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_ner-resume-references?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:91a62723-2ded-4d9f-bd10-6a18ac2ea990Post:cd7bb9f4-fa73-4afb-90fe-785e3d614551">Re: NER: Resume References</a>:
    [QUOTE]I'm thinking that I might just avoid this trainwreck completely. I was not her supervisor and really, didn't even work with her. The VP of sales gave me the update recently. I knew they were trying to fire her and she invoked FMLA...I just found out about the fraud a few weeks ago. I'm not going to respond to the employer. If they call back, Is it okay to say that I don't really know her well enough to provide any information? I was thinking of sending this to her on Linkedin messages because I really don't want to get calls from more employers and I really dislike that she's given out my personal cell phone number to these people. Does this sound good:<strong>Dear XX, I hope all is well with you. I just received a message from suchandsuch company asking for a referall. Not having worked with you directly, I do not have input to provide and am uncomfortable discussing your employment with us with your potential employers.  Could you please remove my information from your resume?
    </strong>Posted by MuppetFan[/QUOTE]

    That sounds more than polite and still states your place. She should hopefully oblige!

    In your opinion, when you ask someone if you can use them as a reference do you need to ask them regarding every single job you apply to? Or does that grant their general permission to use them for all references you may need?
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_ner-resume-references?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:91a62723-2ded-4d9f-bd10-6a18ac2ea990Post:ed616b7a-457c-4cd4-9897-e4b112ce3f81">Re:NER: Resume References</a>:
    [QUOTE]I really wish there were a general rule prohibiting legal advice on these boards. So much of it is really well intentioned, and wrong.
    Posted by STARMOON44[/QUOTE]

    I don't think anyone is providing anything other than their professional opinion based on experience or educated thought....and that's all that I am taking it as. 
    image   imageimage
    You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you marry a Muppet Overlord.

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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_ner-resume-references?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:91a62723-2ded-4d9f-bd10-6a18ac2ea990Post:9be44d9a-8bd0-43b0-a8e7-c598f3da5406">Re: NER: Resume References</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: NER: Resume References : That sounds more than polite and still states your place. She should hopefully oblige! In your opinion, when you ask someone if you can use them as a reference do you need to ask them regarding every single job you apply to? Or does that grant their general permission to use them for all references you may need?
    Posted by rel1988[/QUOTE]

    In general, I ask them before adding them to my resume, and if I'm applying for anything I will give them a call letting them know they may expect to hear from someone. 
    image   imageimage
    You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you marry a Muppet Overlord.

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    itzMSitzMS member
    First Answer First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_ner-resume-references?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:91a62723-2ded-4d9f-bd10-6a18ac2ea990Post:ed616b7a-457c-4cd4-9897-e4b112ce3f81">Re:NER: Resume References</a>:
    [QUOTE]I really wish there were a general rule prohibiting legal advice on these boards. So much of it is really well intentioned, and wrong.
    Posted by STARMOON44[/QUOTE]

    I'm assuming you're referring to me. I work in Human Resources. I am giving my professional experience and opinion. This is a public, anonymous forum. Information is given and received at your own risk or discretion.

    If you think something is wrong, why don't you state what you think is correct?
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_ner-resume-references?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:91a62723-2ded-4d9f-bd10-6a18ac2ea990Post:9be44d9a-8bd0-43b0-a8e7-c598f3da5406">Re: NER: Resume References</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: NER: Resume References : That sounds more than polite and still states your place. She should hopefully oblige! In your opinion, when you ask someone if you can use them as a <strong>reference do you need to ask them regarding every single job you apply to? Or does that grant their general permission to use them for all references you may need?</strong>
    Posted by rel1988[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>I was recently searching for a job and I asked my references if they would be willing to be a reference.  After they all agreed I then notified them when I had an interview lined up just in case the potential employer asked for my reference list (I only provide the list when asked by an interviewer).  I always sent my references a copy of the job posting so they could tailor the recommendation to the job, but who knows what they actually said.  lol  I got a job so it couldn't have been bad.  <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" />

    </div>
    photo composite_14153800476219.jpg
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_ner-resume-references?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:91a62723-2ded-4d9f-bd10-6a18ac2ea990Post:91639589-1194-4206-a4ff-d300e037b092">Re: NER: Resume References</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: NER: Resume References : I was recently searching for a job and I asked my references if they would be willing to be a reference.  After they all agreed I then notified them when I had an interview lined up just in case the potential employer asked for my reference list (I only provide the list when asked by an interviewer).  I <strong>always sent my references a copy of the job posting so they could tailor the recommendation to the job,</strong> but who knows what they actually said.  lol  I got a job so it couldn't have been bad.  
    Posted by AprilH81[/QUOTE]

    Hey good idea, I never thought of that. I'd sure appreciate that when I give referrals.

     I don't post my resume with references online (I do maintain some online), only when I submit a resume for a job I'm actively applying for.
    image   imageimage
    You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you marry a Muppet Overlord.

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    When I was looking for a job I asked people if I could use them as a reference.  If I got to the interview phase I gave them a heads up they might be getting a call and what the job was about.     

    DH did the same thing when he was looking for a job.  I'm actually surprised it's not standard practice for people?






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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    Oh boy... guess who I've got a missed call from?  

    The message has nothing in it though. Both annoyed at the call and disappointed that I don't hear her response.
    image   imageimage
    You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you marry a Muppet Overlord.

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    Jobs are hard to come by, one would think you would want to be 100% sure you refereneces are going to speak highly of you, no?

    Maybe I'm over thinking this.







    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_ner-resume-references?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:91a62723-2ded-4d9f-bd10-6a18ac2ea990Post:71281f92-7ea5-4e75-aa79-a01d511ab0ca">Re: NER: Resume References</a>:
    [QUOTE]Jobs are hard to come by, one would think you would want to be 100% sure you refereneces are going to speak highly of you, no? Maybe I'm over thinking this.
    Posted by lyndausvi[/QUOTE]

    You'd think. You'd also think she'd choose people who care about her or know her. I saw her 3 times a year for 2 years and 2 of those times were during retreats where I did spend time getting to know her a little bit on a personal level but avoided her often because she kept smoking in my face. Once, she picked up package for me from a place she lives near and brought it to HQ and I thanked her... of all the people to ask.... I won't even accept her LinkedIn request!!!

    I might even understand it slightly if I had a connection to the company she's applying for but I have no idea who they are.
    image   imageimage
    You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you marry a Muppet Overlord.

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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_ner-resume-references?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:91a62723-2ded-4d9f-bd10-6a18ac2ea990Post:ed616b7a-457c-4cd4-9897-e4b112ce3f81">Re:NER: Resume References</a>:
    [QUOTE]I really wish there were a general rule prohibiting legal advice on these boards. So much of it is really well intentioned, and wrong.
    Posted by STARMOON44[/QUOTE]

    I you're referring to me because I said "legally" - that's not legal advice per se.  I know from experience that you are not allowed to say anything negative if they were a poor employee.  It can open companies up to lawsuits for defamation, libel, slander...pick one.

     

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    lyndausvilyndausvi mod
    First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited April 2013
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_ner-resume-references?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:91a62723-2ded-4d9f-bd10-6a18ac2ea990Post:77e970da-a4f4-4c34-89ff-02f7a7fb3e7b">Re:NER: Resume References</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re:NER: Resume References : I you're referring to me because I said "legally" - that's not legal advice per se.  I know from experience that you are not allowed to say anything negative if they were a poor employee.  It can open companies up to lawsuits for defamation, libel, slander...pick one.
    Posted by kjhowd[/QUOTE]

    <div>
    </div><div>I think it's really state dependent, although a national/international company is likely to have the same policy throughout just to cover their bases.</div><div>
    </div><div>Louisiana is an At-will, Right-to-work state.  You can be fired in for wearing a pink shirt on a Tuesday.  You can't be fired for race, color, religion, gender, etc but other that that you can be fired without a reason.   You are not a Saint's fan? See ya.   </div><div>
    </div><div>You don't have to give notice either.  Professionally it's still always a good idea, but legally it can't be held against you.</div><div>
    </div><div>Because of those rules I'm not sure if they even call ex-employers for anything other than the vitals.  If you can be fired for wearing a pink shirt, asking questions  like "are they able to be rehired" are not really helpful.   They could not not eligible because they are not Saint's fan.  Has nothing to do with their performance.</div>






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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    MrsMack10612MrsMack10612 member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Answer First Comment
    edited April 2013

    Excellent points Lynda.  Now that you say that you may be right.  That calling for vitals maybe different than references.  My references have always been people of my choosing and I have been able to request that a prospective employer not call my current employer if I'm looking for a job on the quiet (holy run on sentence sorry!)

    I believe MA is an At Will state as well.

    Edited to fix spelling

     

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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_ner-resume-references?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:91a62723-2ded-4d9f-bd10-6a18ac2ea990Post:564488a9-c709-45b5-ad21-7785f3dca19f">Re: NER: Resume References</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: NER: Resume References : Muppet, Just direct the other company to your HR department. Tell them you are not in a position to verify any employment information and they need to contact Ms. Smith in HR at (555) 456-7894. Then you don't have to deal with it at all.
    Posted by Ctexasgurl26[/QUOTE]

    I talked to her former boss about something else today and mentioned it and he said "WTF. Seriously?"

    We don't really have an HR department but he owner handles some of those things.We're always just instructed to put people into his voicemail...which I'd love to do except they called my cell and I can't transfer it.... but I guess if I give them the main line, the receiptionist willl just throw them into his vm.

    I keep thinking she's going to respond to my LinkedIN msg online but I've got nothin from her.
    image   imageimage
    You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you marry a Muppet Overlord.

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    I wouldn't touch this withva ten foot pole if I were you. She has demonstrated a working knowledge of HR law, and a willingness to abuse it. At most, I'd just leave a message saying you aren't comfortable giving a reference for her. No elaborations. Definitely send a letter asking her to remove you via certified mail, and keep a copy. Cover your butt from this one.
    Don't make me mobilize OffensiveKitten

    image

    Anniversary

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    I just sent the linkedin message that I posted above.  I don't have her address and I don't to ask her for it LOL. I think this will be sufficient.

    image   imageimage
    You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you marry a Muppet Overlord.

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    WTH. Still nothing. Yesterday I was annoyed that she did this and....now I want to see a response for her out of sheer curiousity. Does she understand? Is she mad? Is she laughing? Is she flipping me the bird? Is she crying? Was this a test?
    image   imageimage
    You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you marry a Muppet Overlord.

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