Pre-cana issues (more of a vent than anything)

mbcdefg · November 2009

The Church will still marry older couples who unable to conceive because of age/menopause, so I can't imagine that a paralyzed person would be turned away because of impotence. That's just insane.

ootmother2 · November 2009

The Catholic Church has 7 sacraments. Unfortunately sex is not one of them.Go back to CCD classes

Leah&Christian09 · November 2009

"For sin to occur, there has to be intent." Therefore, OP could not possibly have been sinning when she was taking the pill years ago, as she had no knowledge that it could possibily have an abortive effect, and with no knowledge, follows no intent.

ring_pop · November 2009

All that was necessary was for two people to declare their intention to be married, and then to consummate it.So whenever they started teaching the whole "no sex before marriage" thing, it wasn't really that meaningful of a rule, since... sex = marriage? I see...

meltoine · November 2009

mbcdefj - again, infertility and impotence are two different things. ootmother2 - I'm working on a master's in theology and I teach CCD classes, thanks. The sacrament of matrimony is not only the liturgical ceremony, but also the consummation. Kind of like the sacrament of reconciliation is not only the act of confessing, but also doing penance. Therefore, every time you have sex and re-consummate your marriage, it's a sacrament. Just like every time you receive communion it's a sacrament, not just the first time. leah - I didn't say she was sinning then. The fact of the matter is, it is an abortifacient, and any well=informed Catholic cannot, in good conscience use BCP. ring_pop - sex = marriage, so once you had sex, you were married. Look at Henry VIII and his wives Katherine and Anne. Both had issues with prior marriages because they may or may not have had sex with men. Katherine with a man she was liturgically married to, Anne with one she was not. Read Theology of the Body or any of the commentaries on it- especially Christopher West's.

Jay&Marissa · November 2009

The reason why the pill, or any other non-natural contraceptive method are "sinful" by the church's law is easy - the less people are born, and the more independent of the faith the people become in sustaining the one, or two, versus 10 children that they have, the less people will come to church, support church, donate... Note that the really big families are usually the most faithful.Oh, please. That is just crap and is completely illogical. Really?!

Riss91 · November 2009

The reason why the pill, or any other non-natural contraceptive method are "sinful" by the church's law is easy - the less people are born, and the more independent of the faith the people become in sustaining the one, or two, versus 10 children that they have, the less people will come to church, support church, donate... Note that the really big families are usually the most faithful.That is utter nonsense and quite insulting. It always amazes me how acceptable it is to verbally slander the Catholic church, but not any other religion...

Calypso1977 · November 2009

Note that the really big families are usually the most faithful.i'm sorry, but having more kids does not make your more catholic, nor does having only a few kids make you less catholic.the rest of this paragraph also made no sense, and as others said, sex is not a sacrament, i have no idea where that came from.the Pill can cause an abortion if you consider a fertilized egg a person, which the Church does, due to the fact that it *can* make for an inhospitable environment for the egg to implant. obviously, this isnt true 100% of the time since there are folks who got pregnant and carried to term while on teh pill.however, that aside, church teaching is clear that artificial birth control of any kind is not allowed. the pill, whether or not folks believe it can cause abortions, is considered articificial, and therefore not allowed (except when medically necessary as discussed in other threads here).i do agree with you that the way this information was presented in your pre-cana was not the best way.

Laura&Kieran · November 2009

Sorry to hear you didn't have a good experience - I posted a few weeks about about the crappy experience I had in my second day of pre-cana. We choose to do the two full day session. Our first day was GREAT!!! We went into it some with dread after hearing other horror stories. The couple leading the session were AWESOME. The second coupld basically said I should just go and have surgery to fix my fertility issues. Cause ya know its just that simple. Apparently the thousands and thousands of woman dealing with various issues haven't been enlightened.

samruth07 · November 2009

I don't have time to read all of the replies to your post, but I saw some questioning if BCP is abortifacient. Yes, ALL BCP is abortifacient, not just the morning after pill. BCP is made ideally for preventing pregnancy, but in the event that conception occurs, it can and often does cause the embryo to be aborted. Because it is so early on in the pregnancy, most women have no idea. Don't beat yourself up over it. Everyone makes mistakes, and if you were not aware of what you were doing you are not as culpable. But confession is a good start to healing if you are feeling bad about using BCP. Pre-cana is for helping you discuss major issues with your FI to make sure you both know where you stand on issues, and what things can be compromised and what can't. In the Church, marriage is a sacrament and it cannot be dissolved. These classes ensure that you are both fully ready to make this commitment. But it is also the responsibility of the priest and others you are meeting with to inform you of what is morally correct so that you are both leading holy lives and leading each other to holiness. I suggest reading "Men, Women, & the Mystery of Love" by Edward Sri. It's basically a breakdown of JPII's Love & Responsibility. Some of the other books suggested, like Christopher West's book are really goos as well. I'll be praying for you! Trust that because Jesus instituted the Church and the Holy Spirit enlivens, sanctifies, and works in and throughout the Church, that these Truths being taught, though difficult t to grasp at times, are in fact Truth and are given to make us holy and lead us to Heaven.

kmt_cas · November 2009

Yes, ALL BCP is abortifacient, not just the morning after pill. BCP is made ideally for preventing pregnancy, but in the event that conception occurs, it can and often does cause the embryo to be aborted.I'm not even going to waste my time with how incorrect this statement is.That said, I know several people are offended with: the less people are born, and the more independent of the faith the people become in sustaining the one, or two, versus 10 children that they have, the less people will come to church, support church, donate...But on some level there is truth to that. Take the Shakers for example. I mean that completely lighthearted, so please take no offense! I really think that all religious denominations need at least some procreation, otherwise their word simply wouldn't continue. Again, those poor Shakers.

Riss91 · November 2009

Ugh... The church's rules against BC have nothing to do with needing people to procreate for the sake of having future members of the church to provide funding. Everything being discussed here is based on the general idea that the church believes in a very basic natural approach to relationships. The purpose of marriage in the church's eyes is for love AND procreation. The reason for sex is for love AND procreation. It must be for BOTH, not just one. Hence, the church's stance on homosexuality. It's no different than a fertile couple that enters into marriage with no intention of reproducing. It goes against the church's view of marriage.So, by using BC, you are intentionally and unnaturally preventing procreation. The church allows NFP as a form of prevention as you are not unnaturally preventing pregnancy, you are abstaining during your fertile phase. The church does not have rules against BC to assist in medical problems. So, regardless of whether the BCP you use is "abortive", it is not acceptable merely as a form of BC.

e_jakiela · November 2009

Hi, Maybe I was not too sensitive in my post before, and I apologize for offending anyone, this was not my intention. My main point was - I believe that church, whether Catholic, or any other, seems to be poking too much nose into something that two people in love should be allowed to figure out by themselves. Guidelines of morality are good, but we all know that there are things we do with our loved ones that a few priests would frown upon... I am sure that each one of you did something like that at least once that you though was naughty on some level but decided that it was fun/great feeling/bonding, and you do not consider it a sin... All I meant is -give us guidelines and let us do our own thing... God gave us free will, we know what the punishment might be (or not be) so tell us, and leave us alone. Too many priests have double standards and pass judgements when they are not supposed to... like the one who called me a b*tch and told me I stole heaven from my ex-bf.

Jay&Marissa · November 2009

My main point was - I believe that church, whether Catholic, or any other, seems to be poking too much nose into something that two people in love should be allowed to figure out by themselves.While I agree the whole "anything other than missionary position is a sin" is just crap, I disagree with the whole idea that the "Church should stay out of the bedroom"Sure, the Church shouldn't be publicly prying or berating you, but sex is as much a part of a marriage as the emotional relationship two people have. It would be considered wrong to abuse or misuse your spouse emotionally, as much as it would be wrong to abuse/misuse your spouse sexually. All the BC rules, etc. do sound crazy if you don't know the background, but if you really dig into it, you will find the Church has very good, well thought out reasons for this--for a bunch of celibate old men, I think they did a pretty dang good job.

Theresa626 · November 2009

Hope I'm not too late to this board. I totally disagree with a lot of things the Catholic church teaches but I'm still Catholic. People who make you feel guilty or who tell you you're not a true Catholic are assholes. They talk about how you can't "pick and choose' the rules but if you look at religious history, you'll see we've done just that. Just over fifty years ago, it was ludicrous for the mass to be done in English and now everywhere it is normal. That's just one example. There are plenty of things in the Old Testament that we dont' follow or believe any more. You have to decide for yourself what YOU believe. Just because other people want you to believe the same thing doesn't mean you can just agree if you don't feel it is right. Believing without reason or conviction is just silly. It has to come from you and be your choice. If you don't agree that sex has to always be missionary then don't let anybody else tell you differently. There are plenty of liberal catholics out there who would agree with you. Secondly, have an open and honest discussion with your fiance. He was raised Catholic. He should understand that not everything has to be taken so literally all the time. Discuss with him what YOU believe and how YOU want to raise your kids. On the next session, if they say something you don't agree with, try to both laugh about it on the way home. You don't have to defend something you dont' agree with.

Theresa626 · November 2009

Laura, what????? They told you to fix your fertitliy issues with surgery? that is ridiculous!

Pre-cana issues (more of a vent than anything)

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