Need etiquette advice

Knottie_22383700 · March 2013

I would like some etiquette advice on my situation. My fiancé and I recently got “engaged”. I say engaged in quotes because we don’t really care to get legally married, but I have a ring on my finger to signify our commitment to one another. We would like to have a commitment ceremony in a similar fashion as a standard wedding with vows in front of our friends and family. No wedding party, no extravagant dress, no presents. Just a party to celebrate our love with a short ceremony. Is this considered bad etiquette?

misshart00 · March 2013

I think it's fine as long as you're not lying to anyone or getting legally married later. Edit: if you don't mind me asking, what are your reasons. I can't decide if that will change my mind.

cbrown828 · March 2013

I think this can be done just like any other kind of commitment ceremony...however I am also curious about your reasons, in case that changes the whole situation.

QueerFemme · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-etiquette-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:dba12d0e-103d-4f6c-8de0-0b75687312b9Post:83307801-6e6f-453d-af8a-618b16c95c35">Need etiquette advice</a>:
[QUOTE]I would like some etiquette advice on my situation. My fiancé and I recently got “engaged”. I say engaged in quotes because we don’t really care to get legally married, but I have a ring on my finger to signify our commitment to one another. We would like to have a commitment ceremony in a similar fashion as a standard wedding with vows in front of our friends and family. No wedding party, no extravagant dress, no presents. Just a party to celebrate our love with a short ceremony. Is this considered bad etiquette?
Posted by LindaSmith07[/QUOTE]

As long as you invite people to a "committment ceremony" and not to a wedding, I think it's fine. I will say, I would give my left nipple to be able to get legally married though, so I would also like to hear your reason for not getting legally wed.

bopple321 · March 2013

I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with this. You haven't told anyone you're getting married and you don't seem to be going the whole "traditional wedding" route, but I am also curious about your reasons for not getting married. It's just a personal curiosity, I don't think it will change my opinion of your event.

bopple321 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-etiquette-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dba12d0e-103d-4f6c-8de0-0b75687312b9Post:a7482d39-f8d7-4d52-9918-b67d37df2c52">Re: Need etiquette advice</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Need etiquette advice : How is a ceremony with an exchange of vows and rings in front of family not the "traditional wedding route"?
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

I was talking more about the traditional receptions that people do. She said she wasn't having a bridal party, fancy dress, wedding gifts, etc. It seems she's not trying to throw a PPD (did I use that correctly?) without legally getting married. I'd probably be put off as a guest if I was asked to bring presents and watch a lady in a big white dress march down the isle to not get married, but from her original post I'm gathering that this is not what she has in mind.

Knottie_22382102 · March 2013

Meh.

I wouldn't find it at all meaningful to be a guest at a relationship celebration. Normally people who chose not to get married celebrate their commited relationship by themselves on their dating anniversary at a restaurant.

Knottie_22383700 · March 2013

Sorry for the delay in response.

My fiance and I have a lot of homosexual friends and family members who are not legally allowed to get married. Until everyone has equal rights, neither of us feel like we should either. No pretty princess day (lol, never heard that term before), but we would like to host a dinner and cocktail event with our nearest and dearest to celebrate our love.

If in the future we decided to legally change our minds, we would just go to the courthouse and do such. (We wouldn't have another ceremony or reception or anything of that nature.)

lilphillips14 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-etiquette-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dba12d0e-103d-4f6c-8de0-0b75687312b9Post:8b035c2f-f3bf-49b5-8076-4115fd51ccc2">Re: Need etiquette advice</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Need etiquette advice : As long as you invite people to a "committment ceremony" and not to a wedding, I think it's fine. I will say, I would give my left nipple to be able to get legally married though, so I would also like to hear your reason for not getting legally wed.
Posted by cmgilpin[/QUOTE]

<div>Same here. </div>

Knottie_22382102 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-etiquette-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dba12d0e-103d-4f6c-8de0-0b75687312b9Post:5ae520c8-581b-42b7-b474-8be93eff679d">Re: Need etiquette advice</a>:
[QUOTE]Sorry for the delay in response. My fiance and I have a lot of homosexual friends and family members who are not legally allowed to get married. Until everyone has equal rights, neither of us feel like we should either. No pretty princess day (lol, never heard that term before), but we would like to host a dinner and cocktail event with our nearest and dearest to celebrate our love. If in the future we decided to legally change our minds, we would just go to the courthouse and do such. (We wouldn't have another ceremony or reception or anything of that nature.)
Posted by LindaSmith07[/QUOTE]

Isn't gay marriage legal in WA?

wittykitty14 · March 2013

Ok, now we understand where you're coming from. That makes sense to me. It's nice that you're taking them into consideration while standing up for what you believe in. Rock on!

However, if you didn't have some homosexual family members/friends, would you still wish to have a wedding? If that's the only reason, I would gently suggest that you rethink this a little. If I were a homosexual, and you were my friend who was planning a wedding, I would be SO happy for you! Just because I couldn't get married to my SO doesn't mean I would be bitter about your wedding. I would want to celebrate with you! Talk it over with your VIPs if you haven't already, they might have some thoughts on your dilemma. Chances are they'll be happy for you either way!

Whatever you decide to do, congratulations! Wedding or commitment ceremony, either one is a very special celebration of your relationship! Do whatever suits you two as a couple! And if you go for the wedding, don't worry, it doesn't have to be the "pretty princess day"

Good luck to you!

Knottie_22383700 · March 2013

Yes.

However it still is yet to be legal in more than 10 states. It's a personal preference and doesn't sit well with me or my fiance.

cbrown828 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-etiquette-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dba12d0e-103d-4f6c-8de0-0b75687312b9Post:5ae520c8-581b-42b7-b474-8be93eff679d">Re: Need etiquette advice</a>:
[QUOTE]Sorry for the delay in response. My fiance and I have a lot of homosexual friends and family members who are not legally allowed to get married. Until everyone has equal rights, neither of us feel like we should either. No pretty princess day (lol, never heard that term before), but we would like to host a dinner and cocktail event with our nearest and dearest to celebrate our love. If in the future we decided to legally change our minds, we would just go to the courthouse and do such. (We wouldn't have another ceremony or reception or anything of that nature.)
Posted by LindaSmith07[/QUOTE]

Understandable. I think it's all in the way you present things and the honesty with your family/guests that determines whether you will get any side-eye. I wouldn't side-eye this kind of celebration, but I also agree with Stage about the logic. Although not being from your circle of friends and family, I can't say one way or another that I would do anything differently. Have fun!

Knottie_22382102 · March 2013

I say engaged in quotes because we don’t really care to get legally married, but I have a ring on my finger to signify our commitment to one another

Ah, I can put my finger on it. What you said originally (pasted above) is that you don't care to get legally married...which does not represent the sentiment at all of people looking for equal rights (which your state offers).

I guess I don't get it or buy it and you don't need me to. But you might want to ask your gay friends about whether they feel this supports them. I'd argue that showing your support at a rally or something would be better. I don't know..

ETA: I guess what's bothering me most is that you don't care to be legally in the first place.

[Deleted User] · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-etiquette-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:dba12d0e-103d-4f6c-8de0-0b75687312b9Post:f37987d9-f919-4e76-8729-3b5681059f62">Re:Need etiquette advice</a>:
[QUOTE]Others may disagree with me, including Cmgilpin, but I don't get generally care for this logic. I think the heart is in the right place, <strong>but I personally kind of feel like WILLINGLY refusing something others would give their left nipple to have is both pointless and sort of... Offensive isn't the right word because it's too strong</strong>. Maybe presumptive? I don't know what word I'm looking for, but I don't like it. ETA: I don't mean that particularly about anyone who boycotts marriage for this reason. I guess it's specifically still having a big weddinglike celebration and just not signing the license that is rubbing me wrong.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

I'm in the same boat, and I, too, see that the OPs heart is in the right place. I just feel like in order to better honor those who can't marry, you could privately donate to causes to support the effort for equality. Not getting married won't do anything, but money and time can.

[Deleted User] · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-etiquette-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:dba12d0e-103d-4f6c-8de0-0b75687312b9Post:3ff68d18-54db-40dd-8a7c-5d1185e569ca">Re: Need etiquette advice</a>:
[QUOTE]I say engaged in quotes because we don’t really care to get legally married, but I have a ring on my finger to signify our commitment to one another Ah, I can put my finger on it. What you said originally (pasted above) is that you don't care to get legally married...which does not represent the sentiment at all of people looking for equal rights (which your state offers). I guess I don't get it or buy it and you don't need me to. But you might want to ask your gay friends about whether they feel this supports them. I'd argue that showing your support at a rally or something would be better. I don't know..
Posted by MuppetFan[/QUOTE]

Same.

lilphillips14 · March 2013

As a member of the LGBT community, I applaud your attitude, OP. But if that's the only reason you don't want to be legally committed to each other, I wouldn't let it stop you. But if you want a simple committment ceremony because you don't want to be legally married for other reasons, I totally commend you for it, and say go on with your bad self, have a good day celebrating your committed relationship, and let everyone know that's what it's for.

Knottie_22383700 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-etiquette-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dba12d0e-103d-4f6c-8de0-0b75687312b9Post:71fda4fc-528e-4498-a44c-ae74325a1930">Re:Need etiquette advice</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Need etiquette advice : I'm in the same boat, and I, too, see that the OPs heart is in the right place. I just feel like in order to better honor those who can't marry, you could privately donate to causes to support the effort for equality. Not getting married won't do anything, but money and time can.
Posted by Domino04[/QUOTE]
Much money and time of mine IS spent supporting equal rights for everyone. That doesn't negate how I feel about marriage. Until it's an equal right for EVERYONE, I don't feel comfortable partaking. <div><div>
<div>
</div></div></div>

Knottie_22383700 · March 2013

Aside from whether you agree with my beliefs and feelings on the matter, if I am upfront about it being a ceremony of commitment and don't have any of the "Pretty princess day" (love that term, lol) things, is this okay? That's basically all I want to know. Does it follow etiquette?

Knottie_22382102 · March 2013

I don't think it's "rude" to throw a party about anything

QueerFemme · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-etiquette-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:dba12d0e-103d-4f6c-8de0-0b75687312b9Post:f37987d9-f919-4e76-8729-3b5681059f62">Re:Need etiquette advice</a>:
[QUOTE]Others may disagree with me, including Cmgilpin, but I don't get generally care for this logic. I think the heart is in the right place, but I personally kind of feel like WILLINGLY refusing something others would give their left nipple to have is both pointless and sort of... Offensive isn't the right word because it's too strong. Maybe presumptive? I don't know what word I'm looking for, but I don't like it. ETA: I don't mean that particularly about anyone who boycotts marriage for this reason. I guess it's specifically still having a big weddinglike celebration and just not signing the license that is rubbing me wrong.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

Eh.. I'm somewhat indifferent. I appreciate the gesture, but honestly... If I was OP's friend, I would say "GET MARRIED!! and then, continue to educate people about marriage rights and make donations to organizations fighting for marriage equality.

lilphillips14 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-etiquette-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dba12d0e-103d-4f6c-8de0-0b75687312b9Post:d710109c-3a81-40fd-92bb-d149b67c0a24">Re:Need etiquette advice</a>:
[QUOTE]Etiquette doesn't really have anything to say about what you're proposing because it just isn't a common issue that is old enough to have a precedent. So, it's not against etiquette, in the same way sending your personal robot to deliver invites isn't against etiquette. It just hasn't ever, to my knowledge, been covered. ETA: however, I still don't see it as that different from having a fake ceremony before or after a legally binding one, and thusly, I wouldn't personally attend it.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

<div>Just out of curiosity, would you attend a gay couple's commitment ceremony if they planned on getting married when it became legal in their state? Or would that be a fake wedding? </div><div>
</div><div>My fiance is transgender, we're having a traditional wedding ceremony as if we could legally get married in our state, and not calling it a commitment ceremony, because if we could, we would be getting married and we will be signing a marriage certificate as soon as we're legally able to. Would you attend it?</div><div>
</div><div>Not to be rude, just curious. I don't view a straight couple as any different if they want to do a commitment ceremony now and then decide to get legally married later. A straight couple can just not believe in the institution of marriage and still invite people to watch them commit to each other, in my opinion.</div>

QueerFemme · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-etiquette-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:dba12d0e-103d-4f6c-8de0-0b75687312b9Post:6d47a722-2d4d-4771-974d-c8554145e30b">Re: Need etiquette advice</a>:
[QUOTE]Aside from whether you agree with my beliefs and feelings on the matter, if I am upfront about it being a ceremony of commitment and don't have any of the "Pretty princess day" (love that term, lol) things, is this okay? That's basically all I want to know. Does it follow etiquette?
Posted by LindaSmith07[/QUOTE]

I think you can do it and it wouldn't violate any etiquette. And if you decide to make it legal later, just do a quicky JOP ceremony. No guests, no party.

I imagine most of your close friends and family know that you are passionate about equal marriage rights and wouldn't be surprised that you are choosing not to make it legal until everyone can be legal. So, as long as you are honest with them and invite them to a committment ceremony, I think you are ok.

Speaking as a queer though, I say, get married and get the financial benefits, and give that extra money to charity! ;)

[Deleted User] · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-etiquette-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:dba12d0e-103d-4f6c-8de0-0b75687312b9Post:d710109c-3a81-40fd-92bb-d149b67c0a24">Re:Need etiquette advice</a>:
[QUOTE]Etiquette doesn't really have anything to say about what you're proposing because it just isn't a common issue that is old enough to have a precedent. So, it's not against etiquette, in the same way sending your personal robot to deliver invites isn't against etiquette. It just hasn't ever, to my knowledge, been covered.<strong> ETA: however, I still don't see it as that different from having a fake ceremony before or after a legally binding one, and thusly, I wouldn't personally attend it.</strong>
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

Same. I feel like it pays more respect to those who cannot marry...to marry because you can and make sure it's a lovely and lasting marriage.

And honestly, people who do this kind of make me roll my eyes because it feels like "LOOK AT ME, I SUPPORT THIS CAUSE." It's the same in my head as donations as favors. It just doesn't DO anything to solve the problem of inequality, so it feels like a waste of energy.

lilphillips14 · March 2013

I just don't think I would view it was a 'fake ceremony.' My brother and his now ex (male) boyfriend/fiance/husband had a perfectly lovely commitment ceremony and we didn't view it as fake just because they didn't get legally married. It was still very much like a wedding. They had a preacher, and told each other how much they loved each other, exchanged rings, etc. And no one viewed it as fake. I don't think commitment ceremonies should just be limited to those who can't get married. If you don't wanna get married for whatever reason but still want to celebrate your long-term committed relationship, have at it! Long as you don't decieve anybody into thinking it's something it's not, which it doesn't sound like OP is doing.

QueerFemme · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-etiquette-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:dba12d0e-103d-4f6c-8de0-0b75687312b9Post:fe591334-4fa8-4dbe-9f31-29946deba6b8">Re: Need etiquette advice</a>:
[QUOTE]I just don't think I would view it was a 'fake ceremony.' My brother and his now ex (male) boyfriend/fiance/husband had a perfectly lovely commitment ceremony and we didn't view it as fake just because they didn't get legally married. It was still very much like a wedding. They had a preacher, and told each other how much they loved each other, exchanged rings, etc. And no one viewed it as fake. I don't think commitment ceremonies should just be limited to those who can't get married. If you don't wanna get married for whatever reason but still want to celebrate your long-term committed relationship, have at it! Long as you don't decieve anybody into thinking it's something it's not, which it doesn't sound like OP is doing.
Posted by lilphillips14[/QUOTE]

I think, for me, If you are legally prohibited from getting married (as I am) and you want to call it a wedding (as I did), then by all means, DO THAT. But, if you are legally permitted to get married, and you are choosing not to, for political reasons, you shouldn't call it a wedding. I think it IS a committment ceremony and it isn't a fake one. But, given the fact that a straight couple is allowed to have a wedding and is choosing not to, they should make it clear what they are doing.

AND, if they do decide to make it legal later, they should NOT have a do-over. I think the whole point is, you don't get two. You either have a committment ceremony, or you have a legal wedding. If we decide to get legally married later, it will be a very quiet affair. AND, we probably wouldn't bother doing it until it is federally recognized anyway. This whole state by state thing is pretty much BS. The rights we get from getting married at the state level are so minimal, it gives us no significant legal protections anyway.

lilphillips14 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-etiquette-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dba12d0e-103d-4f6c-8de0-0b75687312b9Post:54216f0e-03a9-4f50-926e-97b3766f77d8">Re:Need etiquette advice</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Need etiquette advice: So are you okay with someone doing a JOP first and then having a big ceremony in front of family and friends later as long as they are honest? If not, why not? I'm just genuinely curious, not trying to be snarky at all.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

<div>No, I just don't think there's anything wrong with a commitment ceremony in front of friends and family as long as that's what they call it and don't pretend it's a wedding. I don't think the LGBT community corners the market on commitment ceremonies just because we can't legally be recognized as a couple on a federal/state level. I believe straight couples can and should be able to have their friends and family together, exchange vows of love together in front of those friends and family, and not call it a wedding, but call it exactly what it is, a ceremony...and not be side-eyed for it just because they're straight and they are allowed to be married. Just because they're allowed, doesn't mean they should be forced to just because they can be. </div><div>
</div><div>If they change their minds in the future and decide to become legally husband and wife by going down to the ceremony and filling out the paperwork, that's perfectly fine with me, it has no bearing on me. Now if they disregarded their earlier ceremony day and decided 'oh, well now we're going to have a REAL wedding, and that one didn't matter' I would side-eye it because I would say 'so that didn't matter, huh? Nice.'</div><div>
</div><div>If a couple WANTS to get married at the time, and are legally going to and planning to get married, they should have one day and be done with it, not have one ceremony to be an AW and then have their JOP wedding. </div><div>
</div><div>You get one day to celebrate, and if you want that day to be a commitment ceremony to each other, awesome, just don't call it a wedding. If you want that day to be a wedding, then have it in one place, celebrate it in one way, and have that be it. I guess that's my point.</div>

lilphillips14 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-etiquette-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:dba12d0e-103d-4f6c-8de0-0b75687312b9Post:9c9496ad-9f47-4aac-a5ce-1a57dd8f7172">Re: Need etiquette advice</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Need etiquette advice : I think, for me, If you are legally prohibited from getting married (as I am) and you want to call it a wedding (as I did), then by all means, DO THAT. But, if you are legally permitted to get married, and you are choosing not to, for political reasons, you shouldn't call it a wedding. I think it IS a committment ceremony and it isn't a fake one. But, given the fact that a straight couple is allowed to have a wedding and is choosing not to, they should make it clear what they are doing. AND, if they do decide to make it legal later, they should NOT have a do-over. I think the whole point is, you don't get two. You either have a committment ceremony, or you have a legal wedding. If we decide to get legally married later, it will be a very quiet affair. AND, we probably wouldn't bother doing it until it is federally recognized anyway. This whole state by state thing is pretty much BS. The rights we get from getting married at the state level are so minimal, it gives us no significant legal protections anyway.
Posted by cmgilpin[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Cmg said it exactly how I wanted to say it but better. I completely agree.

</div>

lilphillips14 · March 2013

I guess I just don't feel like every serious relationship in the world HAS to develop into marriage, LGBT or straight. So if they don't want to get married but still want to show their family that they are committed to each other for life, I don't see the problem with it.

Knottie_22382102 · March 2013

Yeah, I'm just back to my original thought... if you don't care about a wedding or being married... celebrate your commitment to each other annually on your dating anniversary at a nice restaurant together.

There's only one person in my life that i could see boycotting marriage as a statement to promote civil rights because she left her job to lobby against Prop 8 in CA on principle....and she's married.

ETA: Lil, I totally agree that not every committed relationship needs to lead to marriage. I do think LGBT community does have the commitment ceremony market fairly cornered though, I've never heard of it for peopel who could otherwise get married.

QueerFemme · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-etiquette-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:dba12d0e-103d-4f6c-8de0-0b75687312b9Post:e3cfbe40-c93c-4a07-aa04-a8bafc7c8954">Re: Need etiquette advice</a>:
[QUOTE]I guess I just don't feel like every serious relationship in the world HAS to develop into marriage, LGBT or straight. So if they don't want to get married but still want to show their family that they are committed to each other for life, I don't see the problem with it.
Posted by lilphillips14[/QUOTE]

That's kinda how I feel. As long as they don't do two at any point, it just isn't something I would get super ruffled about.

ALTHOUGH, again, with my left nipple. I really don't "get" why someone would NOT want the benefits of marriage. The only scenario I can think of is elderly couples who lose benefits or social security when they remarry and can't afford to live without their former spouse's pension, etc. So, they live together without marriage.

Need etiquette advice

Re: Need etiquette advice

Choose Another Board

Search Boards