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At a loss...advice needed.

So while this girl IS one of my bridesmaids, this is a friend issue, not really a BM issue.  But you ladies tend to be right on the money so I thought I'd post here - long version first, then CN.

Long version: My MOH and I got engaged within 5 months of each other, and our weddings are 4 months apart in 2010.  We both asked "Karen" to be in our weddings.  I have been friends with Karen for 12 years.  While I don't agree with a lot of the decisions she makes (money, men, jobs), she used to always be there when a friend was needed.  In fact, she's the one who set me up with FI.

After I got engaged (I was the second engagement), she changed.  A lot. She has become COMPLETELY self-absorbed with her pathetic life (her words, not mine) to the point where this morning, I IMed her saying, "Snow!" and she somehow managed to turn the conversation to "you're just happy because you have someone."  Ouch.

I don't talk to her about the wedding with the exception of "Hey, we need to do BM dresses next month.  When do you have time?"  She accused me of talking about nothing but my wedding with her.  I know not to wedding obsess to her, my MOH and I obsess to each other because we both like talking about it.  I try to find lighter subjects to talk about and she always brings it back to that she hates her co-op, she hates her dating situation, she hates her job, but she's going to drop cash that she admits that she doesn't have on vacations because she "needs" them.

It's clear to me that she's depressed.  But she refuses to seek help and has a slew of excuses as to why.  She'd rather vent and b*tch and whine. I've listened.  It didn't stop.  I've bean dipped.  She's turned the conversation.  I've been rude and just closed the IM and ended the conversation.  She continued to IM back.  I'm just about ready to end the friendship (I know, this makes me a horrible person!) as I have no desire to have someone who puts down my happiness because they're miserable in my life.  But I can see she needs help and I don't want to abandon someone when they're this miserable.  Advice?

Cliffnotes:  Friend drastically changed after my engagement, is a Debby Downer and is depressed herself.  Refuses to get help.  I am ready to end the friendship but am worried about her and don't want to abandon someone when she needs help.  
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RIP Dr. Irving Fishman - 10/1/19-7/25/10 - thank you for holding on for me.
You made my wedding day complete.

Re: At a loss...advice needed.

  • [QUOTE]I'm just about ready to end the friendship (I know, this makes me a horrible person!) as I have no desire to have someone who puts down my happiness because they're miserable in my life.[/QUOTE]

    I don't think this makes you horrible.  Not all relationships are meant to be till the death.  I've cut a friend out of my life for some very similar reasons...way too much drama and negativity.  At the time, I felt she needed my friendship more than I needed hers if that makes sense.  The time came where I had to move on and leave her in her dramatic, self-wallowing mess.
    The Bee Hive Est. June 30, 2007
    "So I sing a song of love, Julia"
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  • Don't abandon her. Is she this way to your MOH as well, or just you?

    With 2 friends getting engaged so close together, she is probably just jealous, and feels that she is being left behind. While its not ok for her to be snitty to you about it, her behavior can be rationalized.

    I really don't know what to do about it other than just be there and listen to her. If you can't stand that anymore, then have a serious talk with her about her depression and suggest that she see a professional, whether it is a life coach or a therapist, to help her feel like she can getback on track with her life. I hate to throw the s word out there, but if she has ever expressed a suicidal thought to you, then you need to get her help. That  is serious business and should not be ignored. If she is this depressed when you are still in contact with her, if you and your MOH stop communicating with her, it could throw her into a dangerous spiral. I don't want you to be co dependant and enable the behavior, but be aware of suicide risk.
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  • Yeah, you probably just need to deal with it until after the wedding and then reevaluate.  Hopefully she'll get some professional help in the meantime.
    The Bee Hive Est. June 30, 2007
    "So I sing a song of love, Julia"
    06.10.10

    BFAR:We Defined Our Own Success!
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  • Sarah - she's never mentioned suicide.  If she did I would be down there faster than I can blink - this honestly feels more like, "i'm single, pity me and my life."  She IS like this to my MOH as well, but more so to me.  I tend to have more contact with her than my MOH because I use AIM and my MOH doesn't.  I also think that I get more of it because she set the two of us up and has jokingly (at least, I THOUGHT it was jokingly) said to me - "You stole my backup!"

    I guess that's just it - I've told her she needs to see someone and she refuses.  And my sanity just can't talk too much more of it, which I why I feel like a terrible person.

    image Anniversary

    RIP Dr. Irving Fishman - 10/1/19-7/25/10 - thank you for holding on for me.
    You made my wedding day complete.
  • I think it might be time for a heart to heart where you say, "Karen, I absolutely love you but I CAN'T talk to you if you're going to continue to be like this."
  • Ditto Banana. Don't make it about "you are too depressing for me to be around," focus on "I love you and care about you too much to be able to handle hearing you like this." Hopefully she'll get the help she seems to need, but while of course you want to be a good friend, you can't take on all of her problems.
  • I can relate its really exhausting trying to always be the listener & friend and help her through what ever crisises shes in. She needs to talk to someone professional. This is not an easy thing to deal with has I have expereinced this many times with so called friends that were drama ridden and they will suck the life out of you.

    She is suffering from depression it may be slight but its quite evident and nothing you say is going to hit home. You can tell her that she really needs to talk to someone who can help her sort out her feelings and for her to get healthy. You are her friend but not her counselor and in many ways she is taking advantage of your friendship.
     
    Its like an alcholic  or an addict they have got to face the reality that they need to deal with the stuff in their life instead of whining, and complaining about it. You may have to be that one that says "Enough I love you but I can't be the platter your dumping all your misiries on. I am your friend and I tell you go talk to someone who has been trained in their field" THeir called a counselor, or psychologist. GL.
  • Why not just confront her? "Friend, I love and care about you, and we go way back, but right now I need people around me who are happy for me. I don't feel like you are happy for me. I know that this must be hard for you with two friends getting married at once, and if you can't do this, I'll understand, no harm, no foul. But the negativity is getting really hard to deal with, and I can't imagine you're going to meet someone when you are feeling this bad. What can I do to help? I will be happy to do constructive things, but I just can't listen to you complain without doing anything positive."

    I said something similar to a BM and I'm really glad I did. She admitted her jealousy and it made things better in our friendship. 
  • ok so I know this sounds harsh, but I ditched a bridesmaid. She made similar comments to me about not wanting to talk about the wedding and so forth, when I very rarely discuss the wedding.  I thought at first she was just jealous because she has been with her boyfriend for a long time and I was engaged first, but then I realized that all the drama and the rudeness is just the way she makes herself feel good.  Her attitude just got really bad.  At the engagement party she even slapped one of the groomsmen across the face.  When I tried to talk to her about the incident and the way she had been acting; the conversation resulted in me deciding it was best for everyone if I just cut all ties with her.  I do not regret my decision, all the drama associated with the wedding is now gone, it was her that was behind all the arguments and tension.  I guess what I am trying to say is do what you think is right.  There comes a time in your life when you have to realize that you can't control other people's behavior and if it is affecting your life in a negative way then it's time to reevaluate your friendship.  This may not be the best decision for you, I am just saying I feel like I made the right decision. 
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_lossadvice-needed?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:2af92b9c-7a4d-4c11-b95e-7ddf0eb46dc7Post:5234fd1c-9a0a-4e73-9dcd-f318688ffd6c">Re: At a loss...advice needed.</a>:
    [QUOTE]Now, the wedding day will definitely be drama free!!!  
    Posted by jlomba11[/QUOTE]

    <div>Just a quick comment.  No matter WHAT you do to reduce your stress, don't count on this!  I do live theater.  Trust me, where humans are involved, there can always be drama!  LOL</div>
  • I just asked a friend to take a step back, and had a different friend to take her place.  This friend recently started dating someone and that's all her life is about.  I asked her immediately following the engagement to be a BM, sent her a link to the dress (a $50 Marilyn Monroe style black dress on JCPenney.com), and then things deteriorated.  We barely talked, when we did--I was nicely asking her to get the dress without trying to get upset that it had been months since I asked her the first time.  I gave up.  I did not fit into her life.  Between her 3-week trip out of the country and her handful of trips to Alabama to see her boyfriend, I saw that my extremely exciting moment was not going to fit into her schedule (and she had over 6 months to get into BM mode).  I didn't want her to continue putting me off while dealing with the stress of wedding planning.  And I really, really did not want to lose her as a friend because of her unreliability.  Sadly, it's been a month since I told her about my decision, and we still haven't spoken.  If you are going to put yourself in this situation, you need to be ready to end a friendship.  This is not a selfish statement--this is YOUR wedding, do you want to deal with her getting upset, crying, disappearing, and/or not being reliable on the big day?  It's additional stress that you don't need.  But at the same time, do you want to end a 12-year friendship over a few months of depression?  It's a hard decision that I thought about for 3 months.  I tried to think of other alternatives.  I wish you the best.  This is the worst friendship situation you can be in.  I hope it works out better for you than me.
  • Learn from Randi.  If you ditch someone as a bridesmaid, it is highly unlikely you can retain the friendship.  If you don't care, fine.  If you want the friend, though, you cannot remove her from the wedding party.  You really can't.  There's no better or less painful or kinder or more polite way to do it.
  • Totally understand!  I am getting married in 6 months and just went through a very similar situation.  All I can say is that I didn't want to "break up" with one of my best friends, but in the end it was a good (albeit, hard) decision.  You get resentful and that's not a good thing for a friendship.

    My BM and I were best friends since we were 13 years old and over the past couple years she has really changed (or maybe she hasn't changed, but I've grown up!).  It's not worth stressing over when you already have a lot going on.  I know other people might say that you shouldn't "give up" on your friend, but sometimes letting go is necessary.  If you really think she won't continue to be this way after you and your other friend get married, well then maybe you guys have a shot.  But as far as I can tell, she's (at least a little) upset you guys' lives are changing and they aren't going to be any more like hers once you are married.

    Only you know what your relationship really is, so do what is best for you.  Not just because you're getting married, but because you are about to have a new life soon.  If she can't handle you being engaged...wait until you're actually married!  Good luck. 
  • I had this similar situation happen a year or so ago. However not mixed in with a wedding (thank god). when it gets to a point where you have done everything in your power to make the situation better for your friend and yourself- I think it is time to say goodbye! and after some emotional moments - you will most likely be better for it.
    it is tough deciding whether to cut this friendship off now or after the wedding. It could create some stressful drama not needed when planning your wedding.
    also on the other hand when you look back on your wedding photos will you want to see her in them?
    When it has consumed you so much that it starts to effect your happiness I think that its time to make a change.

    Good luck I hope you figure things out :)
  • If I were you, I would just completely kick her to the curb. It doesnt make you mean, it makes you someone that only wants to surround herself with positive people. I would just tell her 'Your participation in my wedding is not needed.' and if she asks you why, tell her.

    Good Luck. I am getting married this year too!! Congrats!!
  • Bottom line is this: it's your day and you can basically do whatever you want. you're going to remember it forever, so why would you want to include someone as ugly and negative as that to ruin YOUR day? Even if she bought the dress, made reservations, whatever, she can't expect to be involved in such a wonderful occasion if she's going to act like such an ass
  • What's with all these people joining just to flaunt their 'zilla-ness?  I don't get it.

    Anyway, I think you should probably just stick with her until after the wedding.  Then you can decide if you really want to try and help her, or if the friendship has just turned toxic and needs to end.  A come-to-Jesus talk like Banana suggested might not go amiss.
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    Sometimes I feel like people think that brides are delicate little flower princesses who get all dressed up and pretty for one special moment of their dreams, when really they're just normal people who just happen to be getting married. Things shouldn't have to be sugar-coated for grown-ass women. -mstar284
  • LarissaAnnLarissaAnn member
    1000 Comments 5 Love Its
    edited January 2010
    Wow.  I'm glad none of you four (not including Aerin) are my friends.  MY friends believe in standing by their friends when they need help.  Hope none of you ever need anyone for love, help, or support when you're really in need.
  • I am SO disappointed in all the ladies who will end a friendship because they think the friend isn't "into" the wedding enough.

    Are you really ready to walk away like that?
  • My MOH "dumped" me (but luckily enough only 9 mos pre-wedding).  thing is, she's flaky, but since we've been best friends for more than a dozen years, I felt obligated to ask her to be my MOH.  Deep in my gut, I knew something like this was gonna happen cuz we've kinda drifted apart these last couple of years (originally I wanted to ask another friend to be MOH). Well, I ended up asking them both and was fine with 2 MOH, but now looks like my gut was right and she's out of the WP.  Part of me is not surprised, and part of me is disappointed.  I've given so much to keep this friendship afloat, and even though I understand her "reason" for dropping out, I can't help but think it's the last straw.  Breaking up is hard to do.
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  • I totally feel for you! I am in a very similar boat. My BM is also (severely) depressed, she knows it but has no insurance to keep up with her medication. It was very strong and much needed. She is driving not only me crazy with her self pity, but also her husband. I don't know what to do either. Best of luck with this, I feel for you in not wanting to leave behind a big part of your life (her) in exchange for what is to be one of the happiest times in your life. Best wishes!
  • Your friend is clinically depressed and you're labeling it as "self pity"?  Seriously?
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_lossadvice-needed?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:2af92b9c-7a4d-4c11-b95e-7ddf0eb46dc7Post:100d228d-f34a-42c4-b79e-bdef144f52cc">Re: At a loss...advice needed.</a>:
    [QUOTE]I totally feel for you! I am in a very similar boat. My BM is also (severely) depressed, she knows it but has no insurance to keep up with her medication. It was very strong and much needed. She is driving not only me crazy with her self pity, but also her husband. I don't know what to do either. Best of luck with this, I feel for you in not wanting to leave behind a big part of your life (her) in exchange for what is to be one of the happiest times in your life. Best wishes!
    Posted by dartshann[/QUOTE]

    Be a good friend to her, try to act as part of her support system, and hope that either she or her husband gets a job with good benefits.  Leave the wedding out of it.
  • Wow.. when did Mean Girls show up in WP? I missed this yesterday.

    1- Drama is only as bad as you make it. Yes, it wil be sad if your friend doesn't make it to your wedding, but YOU decide how you react to that. It doesn't have to ruin your day. It is possible to be sad and disappointed without being dramatic.

    2- If planning a wedding is that darn hard and stressful, hire a planner or elope. I am not a natural party planner.. in fact, I hate it, but its not hard. Its about you and FI getting married with your closest friends and family, not the BM shoes, GM's ties, or if your invitiations match your dress. Yes, there may be other changes going on in your life as a result of the wedding, but if you treated your friends like friends, then they might be inclined to support you during those times too. If you get rid of all your friends during wedding planning, where will they be during hte marriage, when you may REALLY need support.. over losing a preganancy, having issues with DH, etc. THose are the REAL moments in life that you need support, not when planning a party.

    3- Losing friends over your expectation of how excited they should be for you is just plain stupid. That means you value attention more than friendship. Just because someone's clinical illness and recovery don't fit with the date you set for your wedding doesn't mean they are trying to be a bad friend. NO ONE will be as excited about your wedding as you and your FI.. you are the ones getting married to each other after all.

    4- Yes, this is your and your FI's day, but then you have the rest of your life afterwards. If you put half as much care and concern into your MARRIAGE as you do into your wedding day, you may not end up as a sad statistic.

    Grow up!
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  • Ladies,

    This is the one reason why my FI and I are getting married WITHOUT attendants, MOH, BM, FG or RB.  No drama!!!  Just guests, officiant, and he and I at the alter... 

    I don't envy what you have to go through, but it is your day and your decision.  It will not be easy, not matter which decision you make.  I would hope that she doesn't make a scene at your wedding/reception that would force you to kick her out.  Have you talked to your MOH about your friend's involvement in HER wedding?  Is she more receptive and compliant to your MOH's wishes?

    H in Georgia
  • I hope all of you who are so obsessed with "MY/YOUR day" (I assume you consider the groom an accessory since that's the only way you could make that statement) never ever need a shoulder to cry on if and when your husband leaves you, your parents die, you suffer a miscarriage or lose a job.  You will be very alone after losing close friends over something as stupid as how much they were/were not into the wedding.  
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