S/O Wedding Fish: Treatment of Animals

beatlesgirl25 · February 2010

I just saw this article about "debarking" surgery for dogs, which consists of cutting their vocal cords. The couple in the article got it so that they could keep their dog because of noise complaints in their apartment building. On the other hand, the dog has lost a major means of communicating and expressing himself. What do you think?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35219154/ns/health-the_new_york_times/?GT1=43001

Apologies if this has already been discussed here. I didn't find it on any recent pages.

missy68 · February 2010

I saw that article and didn't read it, because the title alone made me mad. That's just cruel. Max is a "backtalker" when we're correcting him (which as a puppy is fairly often), and we're working with him to stop that - never in a million years would we do this. Just awful.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · February 2010

“Dogs are usually barking because of some frustration,” said Dr. Louise Murray, director of medicine at the Aspca’s Bergh Memorial Animal Hospital in Manhattan. “It’s frustrating to be a sheepdog with no sheep."

I bet it is, Dr. Murray. I bet it is.

beatlesgirl25 · February 2010

Yeah missy, my mouth was agape the whole time I was reading it. I was waiting for the part that reasoned how this was beneficial to the dog somehow, but no, it is exactly what it sounds like. I think if you want a dog as a pet, then you need to understand that dogs bark. It's what they do. If you can't handle barking, ever, then you should get a hamster or something.

missy68 · February 2010

EX-ACTLY.

beatlesgirl25 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_wedding-fish-treatment-of-animals?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bf00e3cc-b2ef-4464-94fd-e7f0f0950f60Post:516ce3d8-83a1-4100-b5b5-1a370a4df67b">Re: S/O Wedding Fish: Treatment of Animals</a>:
[QUOTE]“Dogs are usually barking because of some frustration,” said Dr. Louise Murray, director of medicine at the Aspca’s Bergh Memorial Animal Hospital in Manhattan. “It’s frustrating to be a sheepdog with no sheep." I bet it is, Dr. Murray. I bet it is.
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

Plus, those poor lost, wandering sheep. It's like a domino effect for bad animal maintenance.

shellydiane820 · February 2010

I don't like it. Growing up we had to put a bark collar on our dog, and I hated it. Our neighbors sucked. There was a cornfield behind us, she was barking at coyotes. I was glad when they moved, and Angel became an inside dog.

beatlesgirl25 · February 2010

Shelly, what is a bark collar? I've never heard of it. Also, call me crazy but wouldn't you want your dog to bark at coyotes? As opposed to staying silent and letting them creep up on your land?

aggiebug · February 2010

There are a lot of negatives with the surgery, most dogs actually become depressed afterwards. We discuss it in class, but mostly as a frowned upon surgery.

The tail docking and declawing on the other hand have their places. Its much better for a puppy to have its tail docked than for an adult to come in to have its tail removed from beating it to death. Yes it happens, quite often actually. No I do not think people should do it at home ( a lot of BYB do and make them too short) and no not every dog does need it.

Declawing is the same as tail docking. An outside or indoor/outdoor cat should never have them taken off. I don't have an opinion on indoor cats. I completely get why people do it and I have seen cats come in with a broken toe because its claw got too long and got stuck on something, but I think its up to the owner. And again get it done young rather than waiting, its much better for the kitties!

beatlesgirl25 · February 2010

for depressed doggies.

Nebb · February 2010

I feel that I will just get sad if i read that, but the very idea of doing that to a dog just disgusts me. I think anyone who would do that to their pet should be hit in the kneecaps, hard. Dogs bark, its kind of a fact of life.

deepcovejackie · February 2010

That's heinous.

ggmae · February 2010

MIL has done this to her cocker spaniels. One has had it just once, while the other has had it twice (and may get a 3rd!) She said they are too loud/annoying when they bark - nooooooo, really?! They're cocker spaniels!

katiewhompus · February 2010

Docked tails are often a purely aesthetic thing, not a necessary surgery. Same thing with cats and getting declawed (saves from getting scratched furniture, etc). I've seen many more cats coming into our vets office because they were attacked and couldn't defend themselves verses getting their claws stuck in something. Keep their claws trimmed, life is good.
I think we've already touched on the declawing issue once so I'll leave it at that.

I wish I could cut off the legs of the kid who lives above us. Today he was jumping and running so hard one of the pictures fell off my wall. Seriously?

Bark collars are specially designed colors to deter dogs from barking. You put it around their throats and it will either give off a static shock, loud beep or spray every time they bark. They are often used as shortcuts instead of properly training a dog to bark when appropriate. One of my ex friends used a bark collar on her dog from the time it was 3 months old (cocker spaniel), then she was pissed because the dog didn't bark when someone tried to break into her house.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · February 2010

Yeah, GG, cockers can be annoying like that!

When I was a kid, our cats were declawed. However, I don't do that to my cats. Actually, one of the cats I have (Nimbus) is declawed, but I adopted him when he was 7 and he came that way. Actually our Persians just went to the groomer and had their nails clipped, which they really needed. I'm not going to lie - it is way more convenient to have declawed cats and saves my shirts, moreso than my furniture, but I can't do it now in good consience.

polichik · February 2010

That makes me want to cry. Some dogs are more difficult to train than others, but that's not excuse for a pet owner taking a cruel route out of the problem.

I know I'm not the first to come up with this, but I feel like people should have to have a license to have a pet.

krmabojo · February 2010

Oh my f****** God.

That is alll I have to say.

beatlesgirl25 · February 2010

Poli, I wholeheartedly agree. Katie, thanks for the info about barking collars, etc. GG, those dogs had the surgery multiple times?! FFS, isn't once enough? Was their rasping too loud?

I shouldn't have read this article. It just makes me angry and sad.

p.s. Nebb, totally agree with your plan about the kneecaps.

Fystybride · February 2010

As a fifteen year breeder/exhibitor of Siberian huskies, I can assure you that there are two sides to this issue. Dogs are not all equal, and some have a propensity to make more noise than others. Do I believe that a single dog owner that leaves their dog alone 80-90% of the time should have their dog debarked instead of training? Absolutely not. I, however own 20+ dogs that live on multiple acres of land, are allowed to run and live freely chasing squirrels and being happy dogs- but some are dedicated "screamers" (something specific to Siberians) and yes, we do debark when necessary. It is absolutely NOT true that the dogs are depressed, or unable to communicate with others after the surgery. We actually only do one side of the cords as opposed to both sides, because of the scar tissue that can result from doing both sides at once. One side is fine, and the dogs are still able to make plenty of noise, it merely reduces that piercing scream down a few decibles. My dogs are far from neglected puppies trapped in cages, so please don't go there. Siberians are ADD crazy dogs, and many people are faced with either debarking or parting with the dog. In situations like this the dog would be put to sleep in most cases- who else would want a dog that screams like a maniac just because it likes the sound of it's own noise?

I understand that for most people this topic is something they never considered and to hear of it they are disgusted- but keep in mind that for breeders, rescues and people with noise considerations (neighbors, etc) something like this can be a lifesaver.

JMHO
~S

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