Family Drama...Advice??

HilaryH1231 · July 2009

I usually post on the NYC board (altho I do my share of lurking over here), but I figured you guys have experience with difficult situations. So here're mine. I am Jewish, but have not been raised with any sort of religious background. I was not bat mitzvahed, do not know Hebrew, only go to temple for family events such as others' bar/bat mitzvahs. My family follows certain traditions on the holidays, such as lighting of the menorah and fasting on Yom Kippur. However, when I went away to college, I did not follow these and my parents did not say anything to me about it. I have stated many times over the past few years that I am unsure about having a rabbi at my wedding, and that I am definitely not getting married in a temple. I am now marrying a Jewish man, who is also non-religious as I am. We sat down with my parents last night to discuss the fact that my FI and I are not sure that we want a rabbi. We stated that we respect my parents, and know they would prefer a rabbi, but we would not feel connected to a religious ceremony. We have not made up our mind to definitely not have one, but the final decision will be ours. We also said that if they are not comfortable contributing to our wedding in that case, that is totally fine and we will take on the financial burden. My father TOTALLY flips his lid, says that if we're not married by a rabbi, under a chuppah, with a hebrew blessing, etc, he won't come to the wedding. Oh and BTW, my sister is married to a non-Jew and they had a non-denominational officiant at their wedding. Which was fine with my father because my BIL isn't Jewish. Whereas my FI is and therefore we SHOULD have a Jewish wedding.Any advice, ways to deal or approach the situation would be appreciated! I'm sorry this got so long (I was partly venting by writing this).

C W · July 2009

Ugh that sounds frustrating.I think you and your FI need to decide what is more important to you - a non-denominational wedding or making your parents happy. If it were me, I would pick what was important to us. I don't know your parents so I don't know if they overreact and then cool down, but base your decision on the assumption that they won't come if you go ahead with a non-denominational wedding. Either way, make your decision as a couple, and stick to your guns.

tidetravel · July 2009

DH and I are pagan; father is catholic, mother is jewish, both his parents are christian. My dad threatened to not come. Know what I said? "You'll be missed." PS. He came.

torontobride17 · July 2009

Can you let him cool down a bit and then talk to him about why it's so important to him? Can you point to all the things you liked about your sister's non-denominational ceremony and explain you want something similar?Maybe he was secretly always bothered by your sister's cermony and that's why he's reacted this way?I think my parents are vaguely disappointed that I am not having the religious ceremony both my siblings had, but they haven't said anything about it.GL, and stick to what's important to you, even if it's hard.

tidetravel · July 2009

Didn't finish my thought - Point is, the two of you need to do what you feel is right in your heart. If you dont' feel comfortable with a religious wedding, why should you have one? It won't mean anything to you. Stand firm. If you give in on this, you will be setting the stage for a lot of future battles.

Calypso1977 · July 2009

i admire you for not doing a jewish ceremony just to please your parents. i wish more people thought like you. i'd call your dad's bluff. most likely he will end up coming. but if he doesnt, its his loss, adn you and your FI will know that you got married in a way that you believe, not in a way someone else believes.

Night_Sprite · July 2009

FI has nutters grandparents who aren't coming to our wedding because a woman is marrying us. Sometimes you have to lay down the gauntlet and mean it. Also, dad may cool down over time, especially if you have a support us conversation. FI's parents were threatening not to come, but have gotten over it since.

Puppylove*85 · July 2009

Decide who you and FI want for your officiant, then tell the family who you have chosen. Speaking with them about it when it's still up in the air will encourage them to try to convince you to do things their way. Your father is being ridiculous. Don't allow his manipulation to work. Of course he will still come to the wedding.

angiebear11 · July 2009

I can't say that I know what you're going through, but I can relate. My family is Catholic, I was brought up as a Catholic as well but now I am an Agnostic and so is my FI. My family was extremely disappointed that I was getting married in the Church, but IMO religion isn't something you should fake. Personally I think its wrong for people to get married in Church or Temple just because they think it's the right way to do things or because it will make their families happy.If I were you I would pay for my own wedding and plan it the way my FI and I wanted without anyone else's influence.

AmoroAgain · July 2009

I hate it when people try to make your wedding about them. Call his bluff. He'll attend. If he doesn't, he's a jackass.

angiebear11 · July 2009

*wasn't getting married in the Church.

ffmaid · July 2009

I'm Catholic so sorry if some of these questions are uninformed. Will a rabbi only do a very religious ceremoney ? Could a reform or whatever the lest strict type of rabbi do a very lightly religious mainly non denominational wedding with 1 quick hebrew blessing thrown in? Chuppahs look to me just like pretty arches. Many non jewish weddings occur under pretty arches. If I'm not missing anything and this decor element matters I see no reason not to go along with one. Talk to FI and consider not just what religion or lack you wnat in your wedding but what sort of family religion will be in your household. Will you celbrate any jewish traditions which ones? raise kids jewish? This is hard but it is a great chance to discuss your religious thoughst with each other. Weddings are hard when it comes to religion becuase often it is teh first major religious thing since adult kids have moved out and become true adults. So sometimes parents feel like they failed to teach all teh values and lessons they had wished we had all taken from them as kids.

lpstl · July 2009

Well, I suppose if this was really important to him he probably should have raised you as a practicing jew. Saying that probably won't help though. I would explain to him very honestly why you aren't comfortable with it, and ask him why it's so important to him. I don't understand why he would want you to have a jewish ceremony if the traditions are going to have no meaning.

tenofcups4me · July 2009

Without knowing your father, it's really impossible to offer advice about how to address this with him. Does he tend to blow up and then cool off? Can your mother be a voice of reason? Will he listen later when he's had a chance to think it all through? While I think it's important to honor your parents' expectations, I think it's MORE important to set the tone for your marriage. I'm also Jewish, basically non-practicing, and never really considered getting married by a rabbi. That became even more clear when I married a man who wasn't Jewish (2 actually; this is my second marriage). It was, however, important to ME to have some Jewish cultural elements like a chuppah, breaking the glass, both parents escorting me and the groom down the aisle, etc. I think you and your FH need to make a firm decision about what you plan to do and then inform your parents. Unfortunately by presenting it as still an open decision, you've left room for people to try to manipulate you to do what they want. Where does your mother stand in all this?

laurening · July 2009

Oh, that's tough. Can you talk to your Mom and find out why your Dad is being so adamant about this? It's one thing to be disappointed, but another to flip out and threaten not to attend. I don't know enough about the Jewish faith to know if this is even feasible, but is it possible to find a reformed or liberal rabbi who would perform a non-traditional, less religious ceremony? Perhaps incorporating some aspects of the faith that you're comfortable with, but not a fully religious ceremony.

HilaryH1231 · July 2009

Wow, thanks so much for all the responses everyone. I really appreciate it :)In answer to some of your questions, my mom would also prefer that we have a rabbi, but unlike my dad, she feels that it's "our day" and we should have the kind of ceremony we want. She's also very upset by my dad's behavior, and she never mentioned to me that he felt THIS strongly about it, so I don't know if she was as shocked as I was. After the blow up, she said (in a manner very typical to my mom, who likes to just brush problems under the rug), "It's fine, you'll have your wedding, let him stay home if he wants. It'll be fine." Of course, now I'm not even thinking about the kind of wedding I want, but more that my father could be so hurtful. In terms of a less religious wedding by a rabbi, my FI and I never discounted that. I said specifically to my father that we were UNSURE about whether we wanted a rabbi, NOT that we definitely did not want one. I would totally be open to having a very reform rabbi or one willing to do a more spiritual ceremony. Of course, now I just feel like saying, "F you, I'm not having any sort of rabbi b/c I"m not giving in to your temper tantrum." My mom would also like the chuppah and the breaking of the glass, and I want to incorporate those things--I think they're pretty/fun. BUT apparently that's not enough for my dad. Another complicated thing is that while my dad obviously seems to not want to be involved in the wedding, my mom still does. She also wants to pay for it, or pay for the part that we had agreed they would pay for (ceremony and reception). She says she would be paying for it, not my dad, with her own money that's separate from theirs. I'm not sure how to handle this. I don't want to insult her, and of course financial help would be nice, but would it be wrong to have her help pay when my dad is so against it? Or should I let them worry about their own relationship and let my mom do what she wants?

tenofcups4me · July 2009

Or should I let them worry about their own relationship and let my mom do what she wants?This. It sounds like your dad's reaction was unexpected to everyone. Again, I don't know your dad so it's impossible to say with any certainty, but from your description, I bet he'll calm down and come around when he realizes that he was out of line AND his drama doesn't seem to be making a difference to anyone. If your mom still wants to pay and can do it without his cooperation, I'd go ahead and accept with thanks.

tidetravel · July 2009

money very, very rarely comes without strings attached^THISI would recommend planning the wedding that you and your FI want and can afford. In light of the issues between mom and dad, I would politely refuse her money. If mom still wants to give you money, she can give you a really big wedding present

kissybee · July 2009

now I'm not even thinking about the kind of wedding I want, but more that my father could be so hurtful.Tell him that, exactly that. And tell him that whatever his feelings, he needs to articulate them like a grown-up and not by giving you ultimatums. And that you're hurt that he's set a double standard, having supported your sister's choice of ceremony.

A-D · July 2009

Elope.If FI hadn't booked the hall a year and a half ago... that's what we'd be doing!

tidetravel · July 2009

Since he's acting like a child, treat him like one; call his bluff. "If that's how you feel, then I'm sorry. You'll be missed." and leave it at that. You already know he isn't one for reasoning or talking out his feelings, so be direct in making your feelings known.

Calypso1977 · July 2009

its also a grey area as far as "her money" and "his money". FI and i keep separate accoutns for hte most part, yet its still considered our money in that while what i earn is mine, how i choose to spend it affects both of us. money that is your mom"s, that she may give to you, is money that could have gone towards something joint for the household.a good example is my cousin's wife. she drives a car that costs about $900 per month wehn al is said and done. the argument is that "its in her name, and she pays for it". but, that $900 is money she's not putting towards the household, thus putting a burden on my cousin.by your mom giving you "her money" for the wedding, yoru father can say that it was possible for her to give you taht money, becuase she didnt need to use it for hte house becuase HIS money paid for those things, thus making it possible for her to have money to give you. yes, that's theri business between tehm, but do you see how it can get ugly fast?

Lyss5782 · July 2009

Hillary...I am the same kind of Jew you are

and FI is Methodist. We are having a "humanistic" rabbi officiate our wedding. When we met with him it sounded like a made-up religion to me, but it was exactly what we wanted (TRADITIONAL stuff, chuppah, etc, but no RELIGIOUS stuff...ie no mention of G-d or a higher power). I have no idea if the rabbi by me is one of just a few or if these guys exist all over...but you might want to look into it. You can email me at hotmail if you want more info...Good luck with the family stuff....

klkuczynski · July 2009

Hilary, After reading all of the posts and replys it seems to me that there is a much deeper underlying problem in your family. It looks like you and your father have a patern of him demanding things of you, you not obeying his word and then him punishing you for your disobedience. While I am no psychologist, this seems like an extremely unhealthy parental relationship you have. Unfortunately your situation is not at all uncommon. Is your father an older gentleman? Perhaps set in the mindset that a woman should do as her man tells her and not question? If so, I would definitely discourage your mom from helping financially, but perhaps helping emotionally. I think what I would do is to come to terms in your own mind with how you feel about your dad overall... not just wedding related, but life related. Write down the good and bad parts of your relationship with him and when you are clear headed (probably after crying it out ~ just from personal experiences) sit down like a calm rational adult and go through your list with him line by line. Make sure that he understands that you are not picking a fight, but that you need to clear your heart before you can move on with your life and have a fullfilled and healthy adult life including a healthy marriage. It may come as a "slap in the face" about how his behaivor has affected your life and either create a change in him, or it could cause a "white elephant" for you. Either way, you can't be healthy and happy in your life holding this hurt and resentment. Its better to get it out and be okay with yourself than to carry it around with you to appease his ego. I know its not easy... again from experience... but also remember that he is a human being and sometimes its much easier to ignore our own bad behaivor than to face it. If you want to chat more about this I can be reached by email... I think its in my bio...

jennylynnhankins · July 2009

You shouldn't use a rabbi to please anyone, but is it really worth all the drama if you both don't feel strongly one way or the other? If I were you I would feel more comfortable with a rabbi than a JOP without any Jewish influence. It might be that you don't know any rabbis, or are worried they might require you to prove your "Jewishness."Here in Dallas we're using a service provided by ministers and rabbis that basically "just marry you," and we're TOTALLY able to tailor our ceremony to fit us. I'm sure they have a similar service availbale in NYC, ask your venue coordinator (if you have one).

ec0983 · July 2009

my dad behaves very similarly to your dad- he'll totally blow up at me about something, we won't talk for a period of time (whether hours or days), and then all of a sudden things go back to normal and it'll be like nothing ever happened. he's been like that since i was a kid (and as much as i hate to admit it, i've started doing it myself). the blow-ups have gotten more frequent and more ridiculous since my engagement, and especially as the wedding draws closer. i've had several talks with my mom about it because it's starting to drive me crazy and i feel like i'm walking on eggshells around him! she says that essentially he's just emotionally freaking out because his only little girl is getting married and leaving for good, and this is how it's getting expressed (not healthy or ideal, but what can you do?). is it possible your dad is feeling the same way? i know you said you had another sister so you're not the only "little girl", but are you the youngest? even if you're not, it could just be hard for your dad to come to terms with the fact that another of his daughters is leaving, and so he's taking it out on you in silly, childish ways. hopefully he cools down and realizes that just because you're getting married doesn't mean you're disappearing from his life- but that if he keeps acting this way, you just might.

amykay19 · July 2009

that is very frustrating. I think you should wait a little while for your dad to calm down. How does your mom feel about this? can she coax him down?BTW i love how you said your sister is married to a non jew. he doesnt belong to the club.lol

Reghan · July 2009

I know this is not exactly the same thing, but here goes:My FI and I wanted to have a destination wedding. My mom was actually the one to suggest it (she loves people and parties, and this is a big one). My dad has always been easily stressed out, but this hit it big-time. His sister (my aunt) and her husband are very arrogant and they were throwing big fits about me getting married in the first place. Apparently he was having to hear from them how much they disapproved of me getting married so young (I turn 20 a few months after the wedding). This brought on all kinds of stress in his mind about all the family on his side that would be upset about not being able to come. He finally just said, "You can have the wedding wherever you want, 'cause I won't be there." This killed me. It got to the point where I was ready to ask my cousin to give me away.That's all been dealt with and he eventually came around, but the bottom line is that it's your wedding and you should not feel like you have to sacrifice what you feel is best for the sake of pleasing your family or anyone else.I don't know your family, but you might just have to call his bluff. Is he just trying to get you do what he approves of or is he really going to skip out on your wedding? In my situation, I had to be prepared to have a wedding without my dad. As much as it hurt my feelings, I wasn't going to make my dad (or my aunt and uncle or whoever) happy - it simply isn't their wedding.Sorry this is so long! I hope it helps!

Family Drama...Advice??

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