Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides

VegasCalling · February 2012

I'm really not trying to make all of you feel bad, but are any of you bothered by the sexist wedding traditions such as "giving the bride away"?

I'm sure many of you are intelligent, educated, successful and thoughtful women, who would be bothered by sexist treatment in any other area of your life.

So I'm surprised that the "giving the bride away" tradition still even exists. This was a "passing of property" ritual from one man to another man.

Personally, I find it disgusting, and I'm shocked it still goes on with the frequency that it does.

I'm positive this post will ruffle some serious feathers, but the intention isn't to insult. I'm just dismayed that self-respect seems to take a back seat to tradition in this particular significant ceremony of our lives.

Summer2011Bride · February 2012

I don't see it that way at all, at least that's not how I thought of it for my own wedding. I had both my mother and father walk me down the aisle as they both played an equally integral part of raising me to become the woman I today. They have both shaped my life in important ways. That was the significance of having them walk me down the aisle.

When we reached the end of the aisle, I hugged both of them, and they hugged/shook hands with H. The minister asked, "Who blesses this marriage?" and they replied "We do." I think you can be an independent, strong, educated woman and still appreciate the role your parents have had in your life. To me, this was more of a transition between my family for my whole life and now joining with my husband, or "new family." Sure, if you want to look at it as "I need to have my father's permission and be handed off like a material good to a new man," I can see the sexism, and that may have been how this tradition started out. However, that's not how many people view it today, and I see nothing wrong with it.

VegasCalling · February 2012

Well after thinking about it long and hard, I'm still having my Dad walk me down the aisle, mostly because he's been a great, dedicated father and I think by walking me down the aisle it would be a gesture of honor. I was going to include my Mom but she went nuts about my wedding destination so she's booted from walking me down the aisle.

But he will walk me to the end of the aisle and silently sit down as I grab my FI's arm. I'm still somewhat bothered by engaging in any way with a tradition that has such horrific sexist beginnings, but I came to the decision that significantly altering it still allows me to honor my Dad and keep my dignity in tact.

I don't have a problem with modified language, such as "who blesses etc. this marriage", I guess I have a specific problem with the sexist language implying a trade off of a woman from one man or family to a man as a piece of property.

Soon2BSand · February 2012

Good Lord.

caterpillar85 · February 2012

I agree with PP.

My FI asked my dad for permission to marry me, and I loved that. I think it shows respect to the man that raised me. And my dad will walk me down the aisle too. I don't think of it as sexist at all. To me it is something that a father (at least mine) looks forward to, and it is an honor. He is blessing and accepting my marriage to my FI and I wouldn't want it any other way!

IMO I think some traditions should stay but I see more and more of them lacking, but to each their own.

73jewels · February 2012

I agree with a lot of what OP poster says, and especially as an "older bride" I find it weird to have my father "giving me away". I mean I haven't lived at home for over 15 years!! I am having both my parents walk me down the aisle, really only because it means A LOT to both of them, and it just wasn't worth hurting them. But if it was entirely up to me, I'd just walk myself down the aisle.

Gabrielle76 · February 2012

I can see where you're coming from, and I am usually a feminist through and through. However, before my FI asked me to marry him, he asked my father for permission, and when I get married my dad is going to give me away.
My reasoning is that while those traditions began in a sexist way, now, they are just ceremonial gestures of approval and familial inclusion. As I said, FI asked my dads permission before asking me, but if my dad had said no, he still would have done it. It just made my father feel good to be asked.
We no longer have bridesmaids to trick evil spirits, now it's just a way to honor friends and loved ones. In the same way "giving the bride away" isn't really a father giving his child away like property, it's just a way to honor his role in your life.

Edit: Also, I find it kind of offensive that you seem to be implying that women who hold with these 'sexist' traditions are not intelligent, or not empowered.

dawnp917 · February 2012

My father is walking me down the aisle but there will be no talk of giving me away. My FI did not ask my father for permission to marry me as I told him I did not like that tradition either way. I am a grown woman who can make her own decisions on who is the right person for me to marry. I am also not changing my name after marriage as to me that also symbolizes the transferring of "property". We talked about my FI taking my name or coming up with a new name in the end we will likely both keep our own names.

NOLAbridealmost · February 2012

The meaning of a father walking his daughter down the aisle has evolved from its origins as a property transaction in which daughter's were treated like currency to a beloved and societally accepted wedding tradition. I am highly educated, empowered, and independent and I had my dad walk me down the aisle because I had always imagined my wedding would include that element. I love my dad and it was a great moment that we shared that I'll always remember and I know he will too.

AdeleDazeem · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:c98677b9-e511-4b76-a3e8-6a4ae6ff7c95">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]Good Lord.
Posted by Soon2BSand[/QUOTE]

This was my thought, too!

No, I don't see my father walking me down the aisle as anything other than a lovely father/daughter moment. I'm a perfectly educated, empowered and whatever words you used there... but, I refuse to get up in arms about a lovely tradition for the sake of feminism.

If it bothers you so, just walk down the aisle yourself.

morenachica110 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:2d50ffec-7f04-4353-b9ac-d2e2e4af49b7">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : This was my thought, too! No, I don't see my father walking me down the aisle as anything other than a lovely father/daughter moment. I'm a perfectly educated, empowered and whatever words you used there... but, I refuse to get up in arms about a lovely tradition for the sake of feminism. If it bothers you so, just walk down the aisle yourself.
Posted by Joy2611[/QUOTE]

<div>Ditto all of this. My dad won't be "giving" me to my FI, he will be supporting me as I walk down the aisle. I've always envisioned this and I'm sure my dad has too since I'm his only daughter. Why would I take this away from the both of us just because some crazy people are all riding the feminist wagon? No one's forcing you to walk with your dad.... or anyone. Walk alone if it bothers you. NBD.</div>

meg65 · February 2012

I will be walking myself down the aisle, and while I tell people it's a feminism thing, it is perhaps really because my dad died when I was younger and I can't imagine anyone else "taking his place" to that role.

If he was still alive, I bet I would have him do it, sexist or no.

em01092 · February 2012

OP, I am doing what you're doing. My dad will escort me and then sit down. There will be no "giving away." I am totally more OK with the "who blesses this marriage?" idea though. I am wearing white, but my dress was given to me by my aunt. I would have been fine with off white or ivory had I shopped for one myself.

Also, FWIW, my FI did not ask my dad's permission. He did ask me if he should or if I would like for him to do so, and I said it was not necessary. I knew my dad would not care, and quite honestly I think he would have thought it was weird if FI had asked. My dad feels like it's a silly tradition. I know it's not for permission anymore per se and a lot of people do it for the blessing, and that's fine. It just was not something FI, my dad, or I felt needed to be done.

I think the biggest thing here is brides are taking a tradition that was once sexist and demeaning to women, and rather than do away with them, they have found ways to turn them into something else. As PPs mentioned, having someone escort the bride is no longer an ownership role, but represents someone important in the bride's life.

OP, just going out on a limb here and assuming you are not taking your FI's name when you marry?

VegasCalling · February 2012

Well I'm still undecided if I will hyphenate or just leave my name the way it is. I like the idea of having the same name only because it signifies us as a unit. Then again, I'm grossed out by sexist traditions surrounding marriage. Yet I don't like hyphenated names all that much either.

I don't like the idea of women being asked to lose their identity and become subsumed under the identity of a man. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm super attached to my last name either. It is, after all, a paternal surname and doesn't reflect the women I come from.

In short, it's still up in the air.

JaxInBlue · February 2012

I think I was were you are before I met by DH. I was absolutely convinced that I wouldn't need anyone's permission to be married, I wasn't going to be given away, and I was never going to give up my maiden name. But being successful in my relationship with DH made me more confident that I wouldn't lose myself in a marriage. I began to see those moments in the wedding ceremony the way PPs described - not as what they meant historically but as what they have been reclaimed to mean.

This is what worked for me and for us: DH did not ask for anyone's permission to propose - he actually didn't tell anyone that he was going to pop the question. I did have my parents join me in my walk down the aisle, but I walked the first part of the way by myself. I entered alone - had a moment where I could see DH waiting for and then joined them mid-way up the aisle. They simply sat down at the end. And after a lot of thought, I did take DH's last name. It helped that he never insisted or even asked, simply told me when I asked that he would like us to have the same name but he understood I might not want that and was okay with it. I did hold on to part of my maiden name (I was a hyphenate of both parents' names) and now use my mom's family name as my middle name. I use all three names professionally and as often socially as I can. It was a compromise that worked for me - respectful and representative of both my past and my present.

Gabrielle76 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:d6d71778-87d7-4c9b-94dc-7471b0a7a20d">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]Well I'm still undecided if I will hyphenate or just leave my name the way it is. I like the idea of having the same name only because it signifies us as a unit. Then again, I'm grossed out by sexist traditions surrounding marriage. Yet I don't like hyphenated names all that much either. I don't like the idea of<strong> women being asked to lose their identity and become subsumed under the identity of a man</strong>. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm super attached to my last name either. It is, after all, a paternal surname and doesn't reflect the women I come from. In short, it's still up in the air.
Posted by VegasCalling[/QUOTE]

Lose their identity? It signifies the beginning of a social unit, it isn't meant to take away anyone's identity, or insult anyone, and we are free not to do it. Marriage has a long history, much of which took place in a very sexist climate. That means that many of it's associated traditions (changing your name, giving the bride away, etc.) could be taken as sexist. However, weather or not they are sexist depends on how the men and women involved view them. it isn't up to anyone else to judge weather those decisions come from sexism, or just adherence to tradition. Smart, empowered women will come to many different conclusions about how their weddings and marriages will look. It could range from having a heterosexual civil union, and rejecting marriage entirely, to being given away on your wedding day, and becoming a stay at home mom.

VegasCalling · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:3d1640cc-129a-404f-886c-c572b61ce9a2">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : Lose their identity? It signifies the beginning of a social unit,<strong> it isn't meant to take away anyone's identity</strong>, or insult anyone, and we are free not to do it. Marriage has a long history, much of which took place in a very sexist climate. That means that many of it's associated traditions (changing your name, giving the bride away, etc.) could be taken as sexist. However, weather or not they are sexist depends on how the men and women involved view them. it isn't up to anyone else to judge weather those decisions come from sexism, or just adherence to tradition. Smart, empowered women will come to many different conclusions about how their weddings and marriages will look. It could range from having a heterosexual civil union, and rejecting marriage entirely, to being given away on your wedding day, and becoming a stay at home mom.
Posted by Gabrielle76[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>If that were true, then men would have, throughout history, been equally likely to take the woman's surname.

</div>

em01092 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:7e984936-fa13-48bb-84c2-56ceeca27426">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : If that were true, then men would have, throughout history, been equally likely to take the woman's surname.
Posted by VegasCalling[/QUOTE]

<div>Historically yes, it was because the woman essentially became the man's property, and most predominant European cultures were/are patriarchal, but no one views it like that anymore. Church and government record keeping was done through the man's last name. </div><div>
</div><div>Plenty of societies, such as Native American tribes, were actually more matriarchal in nature but I can't really speak on their name traditions or how they distinguished themselves. </div>

Gabrielle76 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:7e984936-fa13-48bb-84c2-56ceeca27426">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : If that were true, then men would have, throughout history, been equally likely to take the woman's surname.
Posted by VegasCalling[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying that it doesn't come from a sexist tradition, It absolutely does. All I'm saying is that now, in the modern world, it doesn't have to represent sexism.

em01092 · February 2012

Also, I am absolutely dreading being referred to as "Mrs. Scott HisLastName." We are asking the preacher not to say this after the ceremony ( I now pronounce you...). I have my own first name., I don't need to be referred to by his.

I know most people don't care, and I have to get over it because we will receive mail like this, but it irks me. This DOES make it seem like I have no indentity other than my FI's/H's wife, though I know it's not true. I wish this one would die, but it probably won't.

RamonaFlowers · February 2012

I think the beauty of feminism and "empowerment" nowadays is that a woman has the freedom to do what she wants (Be escorted down the aisle/walk solo, keep her name/change her name, etc) because she wants to, not because somebody (Of any gender) pressured her into it.

I took my husband's name because I feel no attachment to my bio dad's last name, and frankly, I liked his name better. My step-dad (Who I consider my "dad) escorted me down the aisle, kissed my cheek, hugged DH and took his seat-no words about him "giving me away" or "blessing our marriage". And when it came time for DH to propose, he didn't ask my parents for permission, but since I am close with them, he did go to my parents to say "Hey, I bought a ring, this is when/how I'm going to propose ... do you think she will like it?"

I hate that there are women that act like making a "traditional" choice somehow makes a woman ignorant or unintelligent. Those are personal choices for each individual has the right to make for themselves based on their personal preferences. Trying to tell other women what decisions they SHOULD make, lest they disgrace our entire gender, is just as bad as any man "oppressing" us.

Summer2011Bride · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:d6d71778-87d7-4c9b-94dc-7471b0a7a20d">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]Well I'm still undecided if I will hyphenate or just leave my name the way it is. I like the idea of having the same name only because it signifies us as a unit. Then again, I'm grossed out by sexist traditions surrounding marriage. Yet I don't like hyphenated names all that much either. <strong>I don't like the idea of women being asked to lose their identity and become subsumed under the identity of a man. </strong>I wouldn't necessarily say I'm super attached to my last name either. It is, after all, a paternal surname and doesn't reflect the women I come from. In short, it's still up in the air.
Posted by VegasCalling[/QUOTE]

I took my husband's name and can assure you I did not lose my identity. It's my name. But it does not define who I am as a woman or person. Even when you were single, you (most likely) had your father's name. Did that mean your identity was wrapped up in your father's identity? I guess I just never understood the notion of someone's last name telling everyone who they are. If you prefer keeping your name or hyphenating, I think that's great. People choose to keep their names for reasons from everything from professional to simply liking that name better. But it definitely does not define who I am as a person, anymore than your maiden name defines you.

VegasCalling · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:80809d56-e463-4ce5-81e1-67c07bcbc47a">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]Yep. Definitely trolling.
Posted by artbyallie[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>I usually ignore accusations of trolling, because it's juvenile and rude, but I'm starting to get annoyed. When the f*ck did it become trolling to discuss uncomfortable issues? UGH! In my circles, we frequently have open debate and discussion about sociological and political issues. Perhaps that's because we all have 7+ years of education beyond high school, but even high school graduates can engage in thought-provoking and stimulating conversation. It does not equate trolling. If you aren't intelligent or interesting enough to have thoughtful conversation about unusual or controversial subjects, it doesn't make everyone else a troll. In short, get off my back. </div>

VegasCalling · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:90fdcb9d-ed24-427e-bf9c-91b04ec29455">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : No, I think this lady is for real. I don't understand her, though. She posts some really extreme ideas. Yesterday she posted that she used her Facebook account for STDs!
Posted by CMGr[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>Just because you don't understand my ideas doesn't mean that they are extreme. And you are right, I am not trolling. I am for real. The following ideas that I've posted about in the last couple days are <em>neither extreme nor trollish,</em> and in sum, they include the following:</div><div>1. I'm bothered by the sexist origins of many wedding traditions, and am further disturbed that they continue. (That's not extreme or trollish) </div><div>2. Sending out any type of communication, other than perhaps legal notices, such as subpoenas, is outdated and unnecessary. (that's not extreme or trollish - it's a fact)</div><div>3. I am having a gay male attendant (that's not extreme or trollish, unless you are an antiquated homophobic bigot). </div><div>4. I believe that gay marriage is a fundamental human right that is being violated (this is not extreme or trollish for the same reasons cited in #3). </div><div>5. I have entertained the idea of ordering my dress 2-3 sizes smaller than my current size because I am dieting and plan to lose 10 pounds per month (this is not extreme or trollish either. People may think it's unwise, but it is not extreme or trollish)</div><div>
</div><div>There. That's pretty much all of the topics I've posted in the last 4 weeks. I might be missing some, but those are the memorable ones. </div><div>
</div><div>As an aside, I appreciate the conversation that has taken place by several of the other members, and welcome anyone's input on the OT. </div><div>
</div>

RunsWithBears · February 2012

I agree that this tradition used to be sexist, but I seriously doubt anyone still thinks of the tradition of the father giving away the bride as an exchange of ownership. My dad will walk me down the aisle, but, like you, it's because it's an honor and a way to include family. I have always been my daddy's little girl and I also see it has him passing on the responsibility to love and protect me to my future husband.

I will also be changing my name. My name does not define who I am nor will changing it cause me lose my identity. I'm sorry, but I will never understand how it does.

As far as the trolling comment goes, I didn't think you were trolling. However, I do think you wanted to stir the pot. Your comments come off as a bit arrogant and you implied that if you don't believe that this is sexist then you are unintelligent and submissive. So I can easily see why others thought you were trolling.

AdeleDazeem · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:19bb3722-f5e2-4596-93bf-effe57ca7fe3">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : I usually ignore accusations of trolling, because it's juvenile and rude, but I'm starting to get annoyed. When the f*ck did it become trolling to discuss uncomfortable issues? UGH! In my circles, we frequently have open debate and discussion about sociological and political issues. Perhaps that's because we all have 7+ years of education beyond high school, but even high school graduates can engage in thought-provoking and stimulating conversation. It does not equate trolling. If you aren't intelligent or interesting enough to have thoughtful conversation about unusual or controversial subjects, it doesn't make everyone else a troll. In short, get off my back.
Posted by VegasCalling[/QUOTE]

I was wondering when you'd tell us how old you were. This sounds a lot like the stuff we used to talk about in college when feminism was rammed down our throats through odd classes like "Women's Studies." I'm not saying it's a bad thing - a lot of people identify with it... but now that I have 1, 2, 3... 14! years of education and life beyond college, I've learned that life is what you make of it. If you don't like the traditions, don't do them. If you see your father smile broadly at the thought of walking his little girl down the aisle and wishing her well, then why would I hurt him by taking that away? I applaud you for thinking critically (something so many people these days don't do), but it is possible to see some of these traditions in new lights and it's not uncomfortable for us to talk about, it's just that we have moved on to bigger issues.

caterpillar85 · February 2012

I agree that you weren't trolling. Anyone who posts anything about "controversial" topics will get plenty of heat from the opposing side. Sometimes those comments aren't rational, intelligent, or even constructive but I don't think they are necessarily wrong because of that.

You have your beliefs and I have mine. We are able to carry on our lives and hold on to what we find true, thanks to America. Having a CHOICE to do any of these things everyone should be grateful for, not nitpicking the opposite.

On a different topic, it's snowing like a biitch outside and I have to go to work... usually takes me 10 minutes, and I am calculating I should triple my trip time... so wish me luck out into the wintery clusterf-- of dumb drivers.

calliopeia2013 · February 2012

On the original topic, since I do think the OP is interested in people's opinions (I find them interesting too)- I do think that a father "giving a bride" away is a sexist wedding tradition, for pretty much the reasons you state- even if it's not an excahnge of property anymore, it's a symbol/ritual that re-enacts the days in which is WAS an exchange of property. I mean, that's just...what it is. It's memorializing it.

That said, I think there's an alternate meaning it's possible to evoke, which is of a parent (or ideally parents) escorting their child symbolically from their original family to the new family they're creating with their new spouse. I think that how you do both the walk down the aisle and how you phrase various things in the ceremony contribute to which meaning you end up evoking. (E.g. if you say "Who gives this woman to be joined with this man," you're pretty much evoking the first, sexist one.)

I'm having both of my parents escort me down the aisle, and there will be no "giving away" as part of the ceremony.

RamonaFlowers · February 2012

I still want to know how making the choice to have your dad walk you down the aisle because one thinks it's a nice gesture is "disgusting" and oppressive, but having some stranger who knows nothing about me or my life tell me how ignorant and uneducated I must be for not having a problem doing so is "empowering" to women.

Having a vagina doesn't give you a free pass to bully women and make them feel like crap for making choices you don't agree with. It's hypocritical to go around saying "Don't do something that a MAN came up with, instead do things MY way, or else you're shaming women everywhere with your lack of intelligence"

I seriously have no patience for this "sexism in weddings" bullsh!t. Times have changed, women can choose to do whatever they want-including stick with certain traditions because they view them as "nice gestures" or whatever. Just because a woman wants to change her name or be escorted down the aisle by her father, doesn't automatically mean she can't think for herself.

artbyallie · February 2012

Not trolling perhaps, but certainly deliberately posting flamebait, which I consider to be very similar, particularly when the OP takes an attitude with anyone who dares have a different opinion. I have had friends who liked to 'debate' in such a manner. I found it to be like talking to a brick wall, since they never listened to my actual arguments and instead just stubbornly repeated their own over and over. Note that I put these friends in the past tense.

I agree with Joy that your views seem to come straight out of a Women's Studies class and I agree with other PPs that it's fine for you to hold those for yourself... but wrong to try to impose them on those of us who view such traditions in a positive light.

I walked down the aisle on my father's arm and he answered the question of "Who gives this bride?" with "her mother and I." I am proud and grateful of the way they raised me and was happy to acknowledge that. It didn't make me (or you, for that matter) any less of my own person to use those words.

MyNameIsNot · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_sexist-wedding-traditions-and-intelligent-brides?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:b246a7e1-c217-4a32-ab47-46dc4b094703Post:19bb3722-f5e2-4596-93bf-effe57ca7fe3">Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides : I usually ignore accusations of trolling, because it's juvenile and rude, but I'm starting to get annoyed. When the f*ck did it become trolling to discuss uncomfortable issues? UGH! In my circles, we frequently have open debate and discussion about sociological and political issues. P<strong>erhaps that's because we all have 7+ years of education beyond high school, </strong>but even high school graduates can engage in thought-provoking and stimulating conversation. It does not equate trolling. If you aren't intelligent or interesting enough to have thoughtful conversation about unusual or controversial subjects, it doesn't make everyone else a troll. In short, get off my back.
Posted by VegasCalling[/QUOTE]

<div>Barf. This kind of crap gives educated people a bad name. Get over yourself. </div><div>
</div><div>I agree with you that many traditions are sexist, but your attitude is gross. </div>

Sexist wedding traditions and intelligent brides

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