HOLA! (poll inside)

shellydiane820 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_hola-poll-inside?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:71f42ee5-9aef-4c3d-91af-306cc9730a1cPost:d991bfb5-9329-412d-bfde-707f8592cd24">Re: HOLA! (poll inside)</a>:
[QUOTE]I voted "offended too easily". I'm still weirded out that Ole Miss is getting rid of the Rebels name. It seems a lot less offensive than many of the other names out there. I mean yeah, there's the whole "The Rebels were from the South, and the South had slaves" argument, but calling the Rebel mascot offensive is more of a stretch than calling the name "Redskins" offensive.
Posted by opalsky007[/QUOTE]

But didn't Ole Miss replace their mascot with Admiral Ackbar. That's just awesome. I'd totally root for their team! Not to mention, he's part of the REBEL alliance :)

MeaghanandMichael · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_hola-poll-inside?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:71f42ee5-9aef-4c3d-91af-306cc9730a1cPost:a5b59849-2250-4970-a8b9-b86bf727d390">Re: HOLA! (poll inside)</a>:
[QUOTE]It upsets me to live in a world where everyone is offended by everything, whether it makes sense to be or not. I feel gypped.
Posted by Nebb[/QUOTE]

*snorts*

k-nem · April 2010

My uncle went to Eastern Michigan when they were just 'the Hurons'. They recently changed the name to 'the Eagles' based on 'racial sensitivity'. My uncle withdrew all financial support after that.
The local Huron population had been happy with the mascot and didn't understand what was supposed to be offensive. I find it amusing that some people are so quick to be offended on other people's behalf.

Moneypenny424 · April 2010

I'll also add that I always thought that naming teams after Indian tribes was a sign that the school/team viewed the tribes and strong, courageous, etc. I don't see it as being different than the Vikings, for example.

But again, naming the team a slur isn't okay.

Moneypenny424 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_hola-poll-inside?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:71f42ee5-9aef-4c3d-91af-306cc9730a1cPost:57d0ac2b-eaf9-460d-a2a9-f1e2110607b4">Re: HOLA! (poll inside)</a>:
[QUOTE]U of I just got rid of Chief Illini. A lot of people around here were peeved. I know you said "still" but there is a town nearby called Pekin, and their high school mascot used to be the "chinks" now they are the dragons. It wasn't changed until the past 10 years (i believe) when they opened the new high school.
Posted by shellydiane820[/QUOTE]

there are no words for this.

opalsky007 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_hola-poll-inside?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:71f42ee5-9aef-4c3d-91af-306cc9730a1cPost:30fd4177-ea5c-479d-8e91-a16cf95026c7">Re: HOLA! (poll inside)</a>:
[QUOTE]I'll also add that I always thought that naming teams after Indian tribes was a sign that the school/team viewed the tribes and strong, courageous, etc. I don't see it as being different than the Vikings, for example. But again, naming the team a slur isn't okay.
Posted by Moneypenny424[/QUOTE]

This pretty much sums up exactly how I feel about it.

shellydiane820 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_hola-poll-inside?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:71f42ee5-9aef-4c3d-91af-306cc9730a1cPost:72e122be-483b-4eee-b030-d97f054065a8">Re: HOLA! (poll inside)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: HOLA! (poll inside) : there are no words for this.
Posted by Moneypenny424[/QUOTE]

Isn't it depressing? They didn't change it until recently. That's really disappointing. Its also not surprising. An infamous white supremacist is from that area too. He's currently serving time, but unfortunately overall, its a racist community. Not everyone, but a majority of the people I have met, I think to myself "wow, people still think like this."

kissamary · April 2010

people are just babies. We have the kansas city chiefs and we aren't allowed to do the tomahawk chop anymore and we have KC Wolf as our mascot. whatevs

crfische · April 2010

Yeah, there is a lot of pride in the Sioux name just like there are in the Sioux people up here.

But man, take away a college mascot, and people get pretty darn harsh.

polichik · April 2010

I can't see polls on my BB, so I didn't vote, but I'd say that it should be up to the cultural or ethnic group in question to decide how they feel about it. I used to volunteer on a Lakota First Nation reservation, and the way I understood it, this issue in particular didn't come from being a mascot. It came from the use of the word Sioux, which means "snake" in the Dakota language, and was a derogatory term that the white settlers chose to refer to the Dakota. The tribe often referred to as "Sioux" is actually the Dakota people. One guy up at the Lakota res said he would love to have a team called the Fighting Lakota, but that using the word Sioux was derogatory to him. Clearly, this is just one person's opinion as I interpret it. Also, the reservation is in SD, not ND, and I'm not totally clear on how First Nation tribes identify themselves. Basically, I don't really know what the story is, but I think that if the Dakota people aren't bothered by it, then it's fine. But if it's offensive to them and brings up past hurt, it should be changed.

Cassandria · April 2010

polichik makes a good point. I don't think that taking their opinions into account is being overly sensitive.

MissLeahM · April 2010

Poli, that would make sense because we're referred to as Iroquois but some people find that offensive because the name meant People Killer.

Mind you we do have a pretty violent past but we've changed our ways since then. So we won't call ourselves Iroquois unless its to educate or correct someone, and just because its what we're known in history as.

J&K10910 · April 2010

Now, someone may have already said this, but when I was up there, at least, a major part of the problem wasn't just the nickname, but the fact that the mascot was on the floor at the Alerus and everyone walked on the sacred eagle feather on his head. That was a huuuuuuuge no-no to the Sioux culture.

I also think that you can't tell someone how they should feel "Oh, you should be honored!" Bull shiit, I'm quite sure they have their reasons for not being honored, and if you don't know jack about their culture, then you should probably not be telling them it's an honor.

Moneypenny424 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_hola-poll-inside?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:71f42ee5-9aef-4c3d-91af-306cc9730a1cPost:13b3486e-178b-4908-9ed5-e014d2d2d91d">Re: HOLA! (poll inside)</a>:
[QUOTE]I can't see polls on my BB, so I didn't vote, but I'd say that it should be up to the cultural or ethnic group in question to decide how they feel about it. I used to volunteer on a Lakota First Nation reservation, and the way I understood it, this issue in particular didn't come from being a mascot. It came from the use of the word Sioux, which means "snake" in the Dakota language, and was a derogatory term that the white settlers chose to refer to the Dakota. The tribe often referred to as "Sioux" is actually the Dakota people. One guy up at the Lakota res said he would love to have a team called the Fighting Lakota, but that using the word Sioux was derogatory to him. Clearly, this is just one person's opinion as I interpret it. Also, the reservation is in SD, not ND, and I'm not totally clear on how First Nation tribes identify themselves. Basically, I don't really know what the story is, but I think that if the Dakota people aren't bothered by it, then it's fine. But if it's offensive to them and brings up past hurt, it should be changed.
Posted by polichik[/QUOTE]

I agree. This is what I was saying at first--not being of the culture, I don't fully understand why some of the names are offensive...but I support what that culture feels to be derogatory.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · April 2010

I read a ridiculous story a few months ago about how the state of Maine was going to outlaw place names with the letters S, Q, U, A and W together. Because there was a road called Squaw Valley or something, and some people got offended by it. So they said you couldn't use the name "squaw." So they changed it to Squawvalley. (I don't think it was exactly squaw valley, but you get the gist.) I'm super PC, and I thought it was really over the top.

Sioux isn't offensive, first off. The Irish aren't up in arms over Notre Dame's mascot.

And I've often wondered how the Washington Redskins have gotten away with their mascot for so long. THAT I can see as offensive, and maybe the warriors or chiefs. A high school near my mom is the "Indians" and they might have to change it. (FYI, no one is up in arms about the Florida Seminoles because, again, the name of a tribe isn't offensive.)

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · April 2010

Poli, do the Lakota use the term "First Nation"? I've only heard that in reference to tribes living within Canada. (And I know some tribes span the border, but I've heard it used by the Canadian government and citizens to describe Native Americans.)

J&K10910 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_hola-poll-inside?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:71f42ee5-9aef-4c3d-91af-306cc9730a1cPost:2c9853a3-155e-4697-9c8e-6fb9c29d7171">Re: HOLA! (poll inside)</a>:
[QUOTE]Sioux isn't offensive, first off. The Irish aren't up in arms over Notre Dame's mascot.
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

The Irish have nothing to do with the Sioux. Now, unless you're Sioux, you have no place to say that it's not offensive. Surely, it's not offensive to YOU, and that's fine. But you're not the one to make the decision. This statement is asinine.

Moneypenny424 · April 2010

I do know Irish people who are offended by Notre Dame's mascot.

J&K10910 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_hola-poll-inside?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:71f42ee5-9aef-4c3d-91af-306cc9730a1cPost:5c0a5913-1711-4169-a0d8-85f6b19ac05b">Re: HOLA! (poll inside)</a>:
[QUOTE]I do know Irish people who are offended by Notre Dame's mascot.
Posted by Moneypenny424[/QUOTE]

Obviously they're anomalies, Money.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_hola-poll-inside?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:71f42ee5-9aef-4c3d-91af-306cc9730a1cPost:b4d87fd5-a34d-4e1a-a697-629817c316b9">Re: HOLA! (poll inside)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: HOLA! (poll inside) : The Irish have nothing to do with the Sioux. Now, unless you're Sioux, you have no place to say that it's not offensive. Surely, it's not offensive to YOU, and that's fine. But you're not the one to make the decision. This statement is asinine.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

Did you really not get my comparison to the Fighting Irish? I mean, really? You know, the team with a leprechaun-like Irishman? (For that matter, my elementary school's mascot was the Dutchman.) My point is that it is an actual name. I don't understand why a name which is used in other contexts is offensive in one particular context. I agree with Penny that something like the redskins or another slur IS obviously offensive. Did you also not see the part where I pointed out the controversy over the Seminoles and how the actual SEMINOLES themselves have stated that they don't belive Florida's mascot is offensive?

J&K10910 · April 2010

Oh, I assure you that I got it. I just think that in context, it seemed like you were saying "The Irish aren't offended, so why should the Sioux be offended?" If you knew more about the controversy (or read my previous post, even), you'd understand that it's NOT just about the name, and that I believe that you, if you are not Sioux, and everyone else who are not Sioux have NO PLACE to tell the Sioux how to feel or say that it is not offensive.

Edited for horrific grammar.

Moneypenny424 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_hola-poll-inside?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:71f42ee5-9aef-4c3d-91af-306cc9730a1cPost:7b4a841b-1bd4-4ccb-af2e-c4f809ead977">Re: HOLA! (poll inside)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: HOLA! (poll inside) : Obviously they're anomalies, Money.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

You're right--I was just agreeing with your statement that Mery's generalization was asinine.

smokeybailey · April 2010

To me, when you use the name of a people with less power than you and make them "mascot" then you've got a problem. Now, the Vikings and Fighting Irish are slightly different in that they are the people that named the team AFTER themselves. It wasn't a bunch of white people who got together and said, let's be this and then chose something other than themselves.

I have no idea what the Sioux think of this but I do know that the Seminoles pocket a nice chunk of change for the use of their name. Do the Sioux also get to lease out their name? That could be a consideration.

It's a power play. Whoever has the power makes the decisions so those without power have no say. "Oh, let's make this little tribe our mascot. How cute they are! Look at them with the face paint and the feathers. How fun!"

Now if the school had been founded and funded by the Sioux, I wouldn't have anything to say about it.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · April 2010

I understand, J. My thought process was more like, "Well, there's a huge difference if someone calls me white vs. calling me a cracker." But you're right, no one can dictate what others are offended by.

J&K10910 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_hola-poll-inside?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:71f42ee5-9aef-4c3d-91af-306cc9730a1cPost:8786c802-1edf-4a3a-b07c-31ffc122d6af">Re: HOLA! (poll inside)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: HOLA! (poll inside) : You're right--I was just agreeing with your statement that Mery's generalization was asinine.
Posted by Moneypenny424[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I should have turned my sarcasm font on. I knew that's what you were doing, I was being a brat :)

J&K10910 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_hola-poll-inside?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:71f42ee5-9aef-4c3d-91af-306cc9730a1cPost:4708d8bb-d337-4361-bf48-169f52662c1f">Re: HOLA! (poll inside)</a>:
[QUOTE]To me, when you use the name of a people with less power than you and make them "mascot" then you've got a problem. Now, the Vikings and Fighting Irish are slightly different in that they are the people that named the team AFTER themselves. It wasn't a bunch of white people who got together and said, let's be this and then chose something other than themselves. I have no idea what the Sioux think of this but I do know that the Seminoles pocket a nice chunk of change for the use of their name. Do the Sioux also get to lease out their name? That could be a consideration. It's a power play. Whoever has the power makes the decisions so those without power have no say. "Oh, let's make this little tribe our mascot. How cute they are! Look at them with the face paint and the feathers. How fun!" Now if the school had been founded and funded by the Sioux, I wouldn't have anything to say about it.
Posted by smokeybailey[/QUOTE]

This is the way I feel about it. Now, add to that taking their sacred things and putting them on the FLOOR for people to defile daily, and that just disgusts me.

Moneypenny424 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_hola-poll-inside?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:71f42ee5-9aef-4c3d-91af-306cc9730a1cPost:0c87a8d8-1b19-457d-85cc-95edc357c9a5">Re: HOLA! (poll inside)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: HOLA! (poll inside) : This is the way I feel about it. Now, add to that taking their sacred things and putting them on the FLOOR for people to defile daily, and that just disgusts me.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

smokeybailey · April 2010

Moneypenny,

Please stop looking at me that way.

Thanks,
smokey

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