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Catholic Weddings

What is diversity?

In some of the recent kiss-and-make-up threads, people mention or allude to the diverse Church and how it should be celebrated.  (Well, that was the feeling I got from some of the posts anyway).  Diversity is a soft word to me.  That means that it is used so often in so many situations that it is virtually meaningless.  I've reasoned my own meaning to it, but what does it mean to you (general you) when you use it in the context of the Catholic Church? 

Re: What is diversity?

  • agapecarrieagapecarrie member
    Knottie Warrior 1000 Comments 100 Love Its Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    As was mentioned in another thread, there are different orders...Franciscans, Benedictines, etc... and from there we go to the Religious Communities. And we have those that like the extraordinary and ordinary forms of the mass, and then we have the Eastern churches and rites. And within our own communities, we have those that are musical, those that have a calling to work more directly with elderly, some to evangelization and teaching, etc.

    The important thing here is that while one is an ear, the other an eye.... these are all charisms...different movements of the Holy Spirit, we are one body in Christ...united in faith. All of these different practices and charisms are under obedience to Rome, and they all believe in the same unchanging truths.

    These are in not equivalent to schismatic or heretical groups that use a title of "Catholic" but have pulled themselves out of communion with the Church.
  • doctabroccolidoctabroccoli member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    My thoughts are long the lines of Agape's (with the only difference being that I do not discourage a person from taking part in any religion - that is their personal choice). 

    Yes you have the different branches of Catholicism, but you also have many forms of celebration and priorities within the Roman Catholic Church.  My Parish, for example, is more concerned with social justice than praise and worship.  Being an urban Parish, we are very much into service to the poor.  We are very much proponents of human rights.

    Bottom line, to me, diversity within the Church is all about how you interpret scripture and live your faith.
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  • Calypso1977Calypso1977 member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 25 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    docta, can you elaborate a bit more on the social justice piece?

    i did some googling, and it seems to me that while the basic tenets seem to be somewhat in line with God's work, i also see there is a political piece.  how does that fit in at your parish?  does your priest campaign for issues from the pupit or is it more that it sponsors/supports church groups that work on certain causes?

    not snarky - genuinely curious.
  • doctabroccolidoctabroccoli member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_diversity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:798f169f-867c-4072-a4d7-64f0e3b4538fPost:48cc8064-9f34-4fcb-8336-908372e0e51c">Re: What is diversity?</a>:
    [QUOTE]docta, can you elaborate a bit more on the social justice piece? i did some googling, and it seems to me that while the basic tenets seem to be somewhat in line with God's work, i also see there is a political piece.  how does that fit in at your parish?  does your priest campaign for issues from the pupit or is it more that it sponsors/supports church groups that work on certain causes? not snarky - genuinely curious.
    Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

    No, no pulpit campaigning for sure :).  Actually, our homilies are the opposite of campaigning of any sort.  They almost always try to connect scripture to current events without being baised one direction or the other.  They leave a lot of room for independent thinking, which is something I value in a homily.  Various things in politics are sometimes mentioned, but it is left to you to form your own opinion.  That is one of the biggest differences between a parish I would consider more liberal vs. a parish I would consider to be more conservative, based on my own experience.

    The human rights aspect is something that is generally agreed on between parishoners, but there isn't any kind of organized movement except for peace walks.  The service to the poor is what we are more invested in as a whole Parish.  There is a service that feeds the homeless multiple meals every day of the year.  There is also another center that has other service programs.  We also have a number of connections to service outside the U.S.  And our prayer in word and song reflects this - for example, one of our favorite hymns is "We Are Called".  Do you know that one?  You might not if you mostly attend the Latin Rite.  Anyway, the words to the refrain are "We are called to act with justice.  We are called to love tenderly.  We are called to serve one another - to walk humbly with God."  I think that is the best way to summarize our core beliefs.  ETA:  Okay, maybe beliefs isn't the right word since we believe in what we say in the creeds.  It's probably better to say that that hymn highlights what is really important to us within the Church.
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  • Calypso1977Calypso1977 member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 25 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011

    interesting, thanks for the explanation.

  • ootmother2ootmother2 member
    Tenth Anniversary 5000 Comments 25 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011

    docta,  isn't that called The Summons?

    btw, PM

  • doctabroccolidoctabroccoli member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_diversity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:798f169f-867c-4072-a4d7-64f0e3b4538fPost:49169528-e9a5-4047-9f67-c15dee19aa32">Re: What is diversity?</a>:
    [QUOTE]docta,  isn't that called The Summons? btw, PM
    Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]

    Hmm, "The Summons" as I know it is something like "Will you come and follow me if I but call your name?"  And it goes on from there.  We use the Gather book, if that helps at all.
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  • ootmother2ootmother2 member
    Tenth Anniversary 5000 Comments 25 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    That's the one.  I love it!
  • doctabroccolidoctabroccoli member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_diversity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:798f169f-867c-4072-a4d7-64f0e3b4538fPost:4b7cce08-bdbb-46aa-982a-05fece4d5ef5">Re: What is diversity?</a>:
    [QUOTE]That's the one.  I love it!
    Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]

    The words to that song are definitely beautiful.  I don't have it completely memorized cause we don't sing it all that often - we usually end up singing the "Servant Song" more than "The Summons".  They're pretty similar.
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  • newlyseliskinewlyseliski member
    1000 Comments Fourth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    My old roommate did a really good interview with John Allen and discussed something of "diversity" and how the Catholic Church in America is evolving with the changing demographics in the country.  It maybe touches on a different aspect of what agape mentioned above?

    http://thecatholicspirit.com/news/local/catholics-need-imagination-to-address-globalized-world-journalist-says/

    One thing I would like to caution against is referring to Catholicism as "liberal" and "conservative"... applying political terms to something as profound and complex as religious convictions cheapens and compartmentalizes them. 
  • mica178mica178 member
    5000 Comments Fourth Anniversary
    edited December 2011

    Thank you for sharing.  What a great interview!  John Allen seems really balanced and fascinating.

  • HandBananaHandBanana member
    Seventh Anniversary 500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_diversity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:798f169f-867c-4072-a4d7-64f0e3b4538fPost:571bd528-f265-42ea-ad2b-1e82a2fb15ac">Re: What is diversity?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What is diversity? : No, no pulpit campaigning for sure :).  Actually, our homilies are the opposite of campaigning of any sort.  They almost always try to connect scripture to current events without being baised one direction or the other.  They leave a lot of room for independent thinking, which is something I value in a homily.  Various things in politics are sometimes mentioned, but it is left to you to form your own opinion.  That is one of the biggest differences between a parish I would consider more liberal vs. a parish I would consider to be more conservative, based on my own experience. The human rights aspect is something that is generally agreed on between parishoners, but there isn't any kind of organized movement except for peace walks.  The service to the poor is what we are more invested in as a whole Parish.  There is a service that feeds the homeless multiple meals every day of the year.  There is also another center that has other service programs.  We also have a number of connections to service outside the U.S.  And our prayer in word and song reflects this - for example, one of our favorite hymns is "We Are Called".  Do you know that one?  You might not if you mostly attend the Latin Rite.  Anyway, the words to the refrain are "We are called to act with justice.  We are called to love tenderly.  We are called to serve one another - to walk humbly with God."  I think that is the best way to summarize our core beliefs.  ETA:  Okay, maybe beliefs isn't the right word since we believe in what we say in the creeds.  It's probably better to say that that hymn highlights what is really important to us within the Church.
    Posted by doctabroccoli[/QUOTE]<span class="text_exposed_show">


    I feel the same way about the Catholic church and Social Justice.  I really feel strongabout social justice and equality and this is what has drawn me back to Catholicism after a long absence.  I still have difficulty with the role of women in the church though.

    These are may favorite quotes as far as Catholicism and social justice.

    "You cannot claim to worship Jesus in the Tabernacle, if you do not pity Jesus in the slums. . . It is folly -- it is madness -- to suppose that you can worship Jesus in the Sacraments and Jesus on the throne of glory, when you are sweating him in the souls and bodies of his children." -Bishop Frank Weston

    "When someone strips a man of his clothes we call him a thief. And one who might clothe the naked and does not -- should he not be given the same name? The bread in your board belongs to the hungry: the cloak in your wardrobe belongs to the naked, the shoes you let rot belong to the barefoot; the money in your vaults belongs to the destitute." -St Basil</span>
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  • rombacjarombacja member
    100 Comments
    edited December 2011
    love both the summons and servant song - two of my favorites!!
  • doctabroccolidoctabroccoli member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_diversity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:798f169f-867c-4072-a4d7-64f0e3b4538fPost:cc47025c-2349-4153-b4a9-3793f1f282ed">Re: What is diversity?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What is diversity? : I feel the same way about the Catholic church and Social Justice.  I really feel strongabout social justice and equality and this is what has drawn me back to Catholicism after a long absence.  I still have difficulty with the role of women in the church though. These are may favorite quotes as far as Catholicism and social justice. "You cannot claim to worship Jesus in the Tabernacle, if you do not pity Jesus in the slums. . . It is folly -- it is madness -- to suppose that you can worship Jesus in the Sacraments and Jesus on the throne of glory, when you are sweating him in the souls and bodies of his children." -Bishop Frank Weston "When someone strips a man of his clothes we call him a thief. And one who might clothe the naked and does not -- should he not be given the same name? The bread in your board belongs to the hungry: the cloak in your wardrobe belongs to the naked, the shoes you let rot belong to the barefoot; the money in your vaults belongs to the destitute." -St Basil
    Posted by HandBanana[/QUOTE]

    I like those quotes Banananananananana!
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  • edited December 2011

    Ditto everything everyone else said! 

    If you want some practical ways we put this to use during our wedding planning, please read the rest!

    During pre-cana we had a session on coming up with our core values as a couple and soemthing or other else that I am forgetting right now.  There were so many little things that we had in common and we knew we had in common those first few weeks of dating, including our views on social justice.   So we revisited a lot of that stuff then. Niether of us shopped at a certain big box store b/c of their unfair treatment of workers around the world and  mission to take over the world.  We discussed our commitment to buying fair trade items and shopping/supporting local businesses or businesses we knew treat their employees fairly (like Costco and Southwest).  

    We decided that since we were spending a ton of money on our wedding, we wanted to make sure our money was going to support local businesses and worldwide businesses that treat their workers fairly & pay them a living wage.  So what did this mean?  This meant that we registered for items that were made in non-communist countries & countries that were not actively trying to gain nuclear weapons capabilities and blow up the wesstern world.   Was this limiting and difficult?  sorta.  But once I got over the fact that I couldn't choose all the Martha Stewart stuff I wanted b/c it was mostly made in China,  the process was fun and educational.  We tried to register made in the USA as much as possible (dishes, glassware made in Ohio (all Libbey is made in Toledo), knives (warther knives also made in ohio, but southeast ohio), silverware).   I can go on and on about all this... if you would like to know more PM me!

    We donated all of our duplicat/old kitchen items and a ton of clothes and other housewares to Joseph's Home, which is a halfway house for homeless men after they have been hospitalized (in Cleveland).  

     We chose a caterer that donates leftover food from all of his events to a local halfway house & alcohol treatment center. 

    We purchased items for our day after picnic at a local market.

    I know there were a few other things we did for the wedding as well, but they are escaping me now!  

    Continuing this in our house:
    When we bought new windows this year, we researched of course for the ratings and reviews, but also chose not to support the comany that fired all of their workers 2-3 weeks before Christmas a couple years ago, then hired them back at lower wages.  

    We researched where our couch & lawnmower were made (our only big purchases).

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  • mica178mica178 member
    5000 Comments Fourth Anniversary
    edited December 2011
    That's wonderful Ellen!  Thank you for sharing!  Now that I think about it, H and I need to be more conscientious about our purchasing habits.
  • HandBananaHandBanana member
    Seventh Anniversary 500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_diversity?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:798f169f-867c-4072-a4d7-64f0e3b4538fPost:a148c1a8-b50c-4373-8bab-784ac54df571">Re: What is diversity?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What is diversity? : I like those quotes Banananananananana!
    Posted by doctabroccoli[/QUOTE]

    They really sum up the whole social justice theme of the church and are just beautiful. 

    Our church really has this tone.  Our priest did a homily back way back when that he said it is about living the Christian life much more than the traditions.  He used the example of parishoners asking if a funeral mass or wedding mass counts as their mass for the week. He said that we shouldn't even be asking.  We should want to be there.  He also went into how if you go to church every week but do not behave as a Catholic should, it really doesn't matter that you go to church every week. 

    His was much more eloquent than mine.
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  • doctabroccolidoctabroccoli member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    Threadjack -
    Ellen - I have Warther knives cause FI's mom lives very close to where they are made.  I heart them Laughing
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  • edited December 2011

    They are amazing knives.  I had crappy Ikea ones before, and had no idea how easy it is to beautifully cut tomatoes or even raw chicken until after our wedding :)

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  • edited December 2011
    My fiance and I are both very, very passionate about social justice. We try to be as aware in our buying habits, though it is a work in progress for both of us. We are both passionate about service. We both believe that one should pray and form their consciences around the Truth (with a big T because there is one unchanging Truth), even when sometimes it is difficult to grasp in the modern world.

    We are, however, very orthodox in terms of our faith, and we believe a commitment to social justice issues is part of that belief. We believe that 100%.

    I have to admit that I'm sort-of irked when people use their belief in social justice to dismiss (maybe too strong a word) other church teachings. I'm not picking on anyone here when I say that, because we have numerous friends and acquaintances who share that belief. I just don't think that they are mutually exclusive and I tend to believe that there are many others out there who have similar beliefs as we do.
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