How would you feel? Long.

Elle1036 · September 2011

I wrote this big long post, but I guess Mozilla decided it was too emo (probably rightfully so) and didn't let me post it. Trying again with a shorter (but still long) version. If anything doesn't make sense, I'll happily fill in details.

So basically, my breakup with my first boyfriend, "J", in college was long, messy, and painful. It cost me a lot of friends, because we had been part of the same social circle and, in the interest of being a bigger person, I didn't talk much about all the ugly details. J talked a lot more than I did, so all of my friends ended up with a pretty skewed version of events. They know, for example, that he cheated on me (truth), but they were also led to believe that I cheated on him first (lie).

"A" has been my best friend since high school. She'll probably be my MOH. She was friends with J in college, too, and stayed friends with both of us after the breakup. I've tried not to be resentful about her friendship with him, since it's not really her fault that she doesn't know all of the details.

Well, J is getting married in a couple of weeks, and I just found out that A is going to be a "groomswoman" in his wedding. I didn't know they were that close. I knew she was going to be attending the wedding, but this little piece of information hit me like a brick in the stomach.

Worse, she didn't even tell me herself. I found out because I stumbled across J's wedding website. The fact that she hid this information leads me to believe that she knew how it would affect me.

I don't know how upset I can reasonably be about this. Obviously, she experienced everything from a perspective very different from mine, and, as I mentioned before, she doesn't know everything about the breakup. On the other hand, she does know how hurt I was, and I know that if some guy ever hurt her as much as J hurt me, I would want to rip his balls off in his sleep, not stand beside him at his wedding.

This is largely a vent, but I am interested in anything anywould would like to say to either validate or knock sense into me, whichever applies. How would you deal with this?

TheMutleys · September 2011

I would feel a lot like you do. I don't think that she needs to know all of the details of your break-up (and I think it says a lot about you that you respected him enough to not spread the true crap about him.) I would have a lot of reservations going forward with a friendship with her. I think that being close enough with a guy to be in his bridal party is pretty d@mn close. And that would sting like a mother effer.

I would talk to her and say about much this hurts you. I would be very open about how much the break-up hurt you, and as your friend, you thought she knew this. It hurts even more that years later, she is really, really good friends with someone who hurt you. I think that even if you take out the fact that this is an ex-boyfriend, it truly sucks. It doesn't matter who the person is that hurts you. Those closest to you are supposed to gather around you to support YOU. Not go and be buddy buddy with an 'enemy.'

I am so sorry that she has hurt you in this way. I think it is really hard to 'grow up' and look at 'close' friends through new eyes. I've recently had to step away from my close friend of 15 years but it was MY choice and I saw it coming. I know that she is really hurting about it right now because she didn't see it coming. She thinks it is a temporary thing that I am going to get over, when the truth is that I have nothing to get over. I just don't think that we should be friends any more.

motoLyn · September 2011

Ahhh Elle, I'm sorry to hear this. I can validate your feelings my last ex did the same thing cheated on me and then went mouthing off about it while i kept my mouth shut. But our social group new me better and didn't believe everything that came out of my Ex's mouth. I lost some friends, but my real friends were the ones that were still there after the dust settled. You shouldn't harbor these feelings. I think you should talk to your friend and tell her how you feel. In a calm rational way. You can give her a run down of your side of the events and let her on her own decide what she wants to do. But J is getting married in a couple of weeks and so destroying the dynamics right now isn't what I would want to do. It is a complicated situation but I think you need to be honest, open and forward about it. *Hugs* How about we belatedly rip his balls out in his sleep. I could use a mini vacay this weekend.

leia1979 · September 2011

I think it's not very cool that she didn't tell you, but on the other hand, maybe she just didn't want to hurt you by telling you.

Like you said, she doesn't know everything that happened. Her view of J is much different than yours.

I think you should tell her (calmly and gently) how it bothers you that she didn't tell you. But other than that, remember that her relationship with J is different, and you should try to let the fact that she's friends with him not bother you.

Big hugs, girlie. I know it's tough.

Elle1036 · September 2011

Mutley, Lyn, Leia: Thanks for the support. If nothing else, it's good to know I'm not being irrational by feeling hurt.

I knew that everyone was going to say that I just need to talk to her. (Why post if you know the answer already, eh, Elle?) It's just a hard conversation to have. For one thing, I simply don't like revisiting that period in my life. It was hard enough going through it once. Plus, you know, it's just hard to tell a good friend that they've disappointed you.

CCO2012 · September 2011

I had a similar break up in college and the guy and I were engaged at the time of breakup. I would be devastated if any of my friends were still friends with him. One of my very best friends was friends with him before me and introduced us and even she hates him now.

I'm so sorry that your friend is acting this shady. I agree with Mutley though and sometimes there comes a point in your life where you just have to get rid of those people that hurt you and use you. If you aren't important enough to them why the hell are you still dealing with their crap? (sorry that got a little angry, I just dumped my super selfish friend recently.)

TheMutleys · September 2011

I thinking that knowing what you SHOULD do and what you CAN do at certain points in your life are very different. Sometimes it is really, really hard to know what you should do. Knowing it doesn't make it any easier.

I don't think that you need to go into your break-up when you talk to her. I think you can say "Hey, I know that you remained friends with J after we broke up. I tried to respect that. However, I didn't know that the two of you were so close that you are standing up for him at his wedding. That really hurts me. I know that you don't know all of the details about our break-up, beyond what he has shared with you, which by the way, some of it was not true. You do know how hurt I was by it all, so it hurts further to know how close you are to him now. I just throught that as one of my closest friends, you would be one of the people on my side."

Yes, I have run-on sentences but my pregnant brain is truly bad with words.

jaycee7389 · September 2011

I would feel the way you are feeling.

Granted, I don't know all of the details, but I would be hurt the most that she didn't tell me. I would feel very odd having my MOH be someone that has a secret friendship with my ex. I mean, not that being friends with him is wrong..but the fact that they are THAT close and she never told you is extremely odd. Like you said, just talk to her and see what the whole deal is.

elannis · September 2011

I think talking to her about it is a good idea and I can understand how hard it would be. I had to end a long friendship too a few years ago because I didn't think we should be friends anymore. We had changed a lot and we weren't compatible as friends anymore. It was hard, but I know it was the best for us because we were getting on each others' nerves and it was just getting worse.

I've also been on the receiving end. I've had my best friend come to me when she felt that I had gotten too busy for her and was no longer being a good friend and it hurt her that she wasn't important enough for more of my time. I wasn't mad at her, and actually had no idea that was how she felt, but I appreciated that she took the time and effort to come to me to tell me about it and we've gotten past it and become better friends. I know it's not the same situation and it'd be hard to talk about it without giving away more about the breakup, but if she's a true friend, she'll appreciate you coming to her honestly to tell her how you feel and even if she doesn't agree, she should take it into consideration. And the sooner you do it, the sooner it will be over.

Good luck and I'm sorry you're in this situation.

Elle1036 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_would-feel-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:448b3531-4c63-4343-bbcf-4430628bf475Post:ea7da3d2-12fc-472d-87a4-b2e01e339b04">Re: How would you feel? Long.</a>:
[QUOTE]I thinking that knowing what you SHOULD do and what you CAN do at certain points in your life are very different. Sometimes it is really, really hard to know what you should do. Knowing it doesn't make it any easier. I don't think that you need to go into your break-up when you talk to her. I think you can say "Hey, I know that you remained friends with J after we broke up. I tried to respect that. However, I didn't know that the two of you were so close that you are standing up for him at his wedding. That really hurts me. I know that you don't know all of the details about our break-up, beyond what he has shared with you, which by the way, some of it was not true. You do know how hurt I was by it all, so it hurts further to know how close you are to him now. I just throught that as one of my closest friends, you would be one of the people on my side." Yes, I have run-on sentences but my pregnant brain is truly bad with words.
Posted by TheMutleys[/QUOTE]

Run-on sentences aside, this is good. Thanks.

[QUOTE]I would feel the way you are feeling. :( Granted, I don't know all of the details, but I would be hurt the most that she didn't tell me. I would feel very odd having my MOH be someone that has a secret friendship with my ex. I mean, not that being friends with him is wrong..but the fact that they are THAT close and she never told you is extremely odd. Like you said, just talk to her and see what the whole deal is.
Posted by jaycee7389[/QUOTE]

It really sounds horrible put like that, doesn't it? Makes me glad I haven't formally asked any of my BP yet.

csousa1 · September 2011

Like I have said before, feelings are facts and how you feel about something is never "wrong". You have every right to be stung by something like this, I know I would (and have, about similar things that have happened in my life).

By the same token, I don't think it would be right for you to be too angry at your friend. Not that you said you are, and since you have such a level head I'm sure you aren't, but no one could blame you if you felt a bit miffed at her for this. Try to curb that - she cannot be held responsible for not reacting to information that was never given to her. That is not to say that you should have told her more on the subject than you were comfortable with, you just also have to accept the consequences of staying tight-lipped on the subject. Like Mutley, I happen to admire that you handled it that way and did not bash him to everyone.

At this point, you should talk to your friend. I would let her know that you found out, and be honest with her that it stung. You can tell her how you feel without it coming off accusatorily, which would only be met with defensiveness. If you say something like, "I know you kept your friendship with him alive, but I would be lying if I told you it didn't sting to hear that you are THAT close with him. I love you and you are my best friend, so I can't help but feel a bit territorial about you. Maybe we can talk about it so I can feel better?" - then I think she would receive it very well.

Be forwarned, though, that depending on how far you get into it with her, she may have questions. For example, if you bring up that it hurt because she doesn't know everything that happened with J, she may be curious. Decide ahead of time how much you want to share so that you are prepared.

kellyt89 · September 2011

Maybe I'm just too talkative, but if this girl is close enough to you that you'd consider having her be your MOH, I'm sort of confused as to why you wouldn't even give her some details about the breakup (i.e. you didn't cheat on him first, stuff like that). I'm not saying you should have been badmouthing him or anything, I think it's great you were the bigger person in this situation. But you can't really expect her to have the same view on him as you do if she doesn't have all the facts.

cu97tiger · September 2011

I agree with csousa. I think it's valid for you to be hurt, but you knew they were still friends and never brought up with her that it bothered you that he and she were still friends. Now is NOT the time to spill all the secrets you've kept from her about that breakup. Unfortunately, how you're feeling now is tied to that, so I personally think if you say anything, you should keep it to the fact that you were hurt by her not being the one to tell you, NOT that you are hurt by her being in his wedding.

jaycee7389 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_would-feel-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:448b3531-4c63-4343-bbcf-4430628bf475Post:ce7691a2-b76c-4c16-b8e4-b9ac62ecac3c">Re: How would you feel? Long.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: How would you feel? Long. : Run-on sentences aside, this is good. Thanks. It really sounds horrible put like that, doesn't it? Makes me glad I haven't formally asked any of my BP yet.
Posted by Elle1036[/QUOTE]

Yep, but it is sadly the truth. GL

Elle1036 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_would-feel-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:448b3531-4c63-4343-bbcf-4430628bf475Post:75e967f5-498e-479b-82cf-95d6e339a550">Re: How would you feel? Long.</a>:
[QUOTE]Maybe I'm just too talkative, but if this girl is close enough to you that you'd consider having her be your MOH, I'm sort of confused as to why you wouldn't even give her some details about the breakup (i.e. you didn't cheat on him first, stuff like that). I'm not saying you should have been badmouthing him or anything, I think it's great you were the bigger person in this situation. But you can't really expect her to have the same view on him as you do if she doesn't have all the facts.
Posted by kellyt89[/QUOTE]

That's a fair question, and one that it's difficult for me to answer without writing another novel. Basically, our friendship was strained at the time due to some other issues, so we weren't talking as candidly as we usually have. Once our friendship was back to normal, it seemed dumb to go back into all those details.

anythinggold · September 2011

I would talk to your friend and see why she's stayed friends with him. There's a chance that he's changed, and based on what she knows of the story, her actions seem like less of a betrayal and more of not feeling right talking to you about it. I wouldn't even bring it up in a way that could seem at all confrontational, I would just say you saw his wedding site and saw that she was in his WP. Say you didn't realize they were that close, and ask how he's doing. IMHO, this is a time for you to move on. If you're not able to forgive him, which I don't necessarily think you need to, at least don't let the anger stay with you. You past is past, and you are looking at an awesome future.

wink0erin · September 2011

You have every right to feel hurt... I would feel the same if I found out a good friend of mine was close enough to my ex to be in his wedding party. Especially if it was the ex that cheated on me, blamed me for it, spread lies and rumors, and then tried to turn to me for relationship advice with this new chick.

That said, she might not realize that this hurts you and I agree with the PP's that you should try talking to her.

Oddly enough, I made friends with a girl when I was getting my second degree, and later found out she knew my ex... she grew up in the same area he did and was dating one of his friends. I didn't thnk they knew each other that well until she and her BF flew down to visit him, and when she came back she was treating me differently. We kind of stopped talking after that, Iand can only imagine what BS my ex fed her.

Edited... left out a sentence!

[Deleted User] · September 2011

Aw Elle, this is a tough one. I'm sorry you're feeling so hurt about all this right now. I don't want to be the "tough love" girl here...but I think my response may come across that way. So....here it goes...

You get to pick your friends, but you don't get to pick your friend's friends. If your girlfriend still wants to hang out with J, then that's her choice. Like csousa said, your girlfriend is only able to make decisions based on the information she has. Maybe she would have nixed the friendship with J if she new the truth, maybe not. Point is, she doesn't have to maintain friendships only with those you like and forsake everyone else.

I can understand why you are hurt that she didn't tell you about being a groomswoman for him, but put yourself in her place for a second. Why would she choose to tell you something that she knows would only open old wounds? She is friends with you and she is friends with him...and she's a decent enough person to keep those relationships separate and private (not secret, as you mentioned you knew they kept in touch!) for both of your sakes.

I think that you can discuss your hurt with her, she is your friend after all. Do try to be sympathetic to the fact that she's walking a thin line here though. You said the breakup was years ago and you've obviously both moved on with other relationships...so maybe this mutual friend doesn't need to play "monkey in the middle". Let the past go, move forward...and realize that you have to accept your friends for who they are. If not, maybe it's time to dissolve the friendship.

Elle1036 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_would-feel-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:448b3531-4c63-4343-bbcf-4430628bf475Post:5a221cb2-aa3c-49a8-97e0-e0b85a8ec929">Re: How would you feel? Long.</a>:
[QUOTE]You have every right to feel hurt... I would feel the same if I found out a good friend of mine was close enough to my ex to be in his wedding party. Especially if it was the ex that cheated on me, blamed me for it, spread lies and rumors, and then tried to turn to me for relationship advice with this new chick. That said, she might not realize that this hurts you and I agree with the PP's that you should try talking to her. Oddly enough, I made friends with a girl when I was getting my second degree, and later found out she knew my ex... she grew up in the same area he did and was dating one of his friends. I didn't thnk they knew each other that well until she and her BF flew down to visit him, and when she came back she was treating me differently. We kind of stopped talking after that, Iand can only imagine what BS my ex fed her. Edited... left out a sentence!
Posted by wink0erin[/QUOTE]

But if this were the case, why would she hide it? That's what's bothering me the most.

It's always kinda bothered me that she was still friends with him, but I've consoled myself over the past few years by telling myself that she just didn't know any better and no real reason not be friends with him. I think I've just been lying to myself.

csousa1 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_would-feel-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:448b3531-4c63-4343-bbcf-4430628bf475Post:6db65e39-6756-4a69-8cdb-98047cfb8a38">Re: How would you feel? Long.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: How would you feel? Long. : But if this were the case, why would she hide it? That's what's bothering me the most. It's always kinda bothered me that she was still friends with him, but I've consoled myself over the past few years by telling myself that she just didn't know any better and no real reason not be friends with him. I think I've just been lying to myself.
Posted by Elle1036[/QUOTE]

She may not have been intentionally hiding it from you, rather just trying not to make a big deal out of an uncomfortable situation. She probably knows that you were hurt in the breakup - I mean, who isn't? - but has no idea just HOW hurt. So, to her, this is just kind of an awkward situation that she thinks you probably would find a little weird, and possibly be a bit hurt, but in the long run is uncomfortable and drama-queeny to bring up and maybe is just better left unsaid.

There is also always the possibility that she is just being shady. That she wants to stay friends with both of you, or is playing sides, so she hides and reveals information as it suits her. In which case, that is petty and manipulative.

The only person who can tell if your friend is the first or second kind of person, is you. And maybe, you thought she was one but it turns out she is the other, in which case this is an excellent opportunity to evaluate the friendship - BEFORE you have chosen a WP.

I say these things as someone who has been through an startlingly similar situation. My BEST friend in college stayed friends with my college ex after we split up, and because almost everyone chose his side (he pulled a similar stunt to J), I lost a lot of friends and she hung out with the "group", so I lost a part of her too. I spent years being furious with her about it under the surface, and recently she neglected to tell me about how close she was with my ex's newest ex. I realized later that, had it been me, would I have made a big production of telling me that Will had a new GF, but they broke up, etc etc? No, probably not. She is not gossipy, a thing I always liked about her. While I think she could have handled it a little differently, I was also able to see it better from her point of view and let it go. Which is obviously easier said than done.

Elle1036 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_would-feel-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:448b3531-4c63-4343-bbcf-4430628bf475Post:6645b808-e691-4e8d-af41-b74c5e1b4630">Re: How would you feel? Long.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: How would you feel? Long. : She may not have been intentionally hiding it from you, rather just trying not to make a big deal out of an uncomfortable situation. She probably knows that you were hurt in the breakup - I mean, who isn't? - but has no idea just HOW hurt. So, to her, this is just kind of an awkward situation that she thinks you probably would find a little weird, and possibly be a bit hurt, but in the long run is uncomfortable and drama-queeny to bring up and maybe is just better left unsaid. There is also always the possibility that she is just being shady. That she wants to stay friends with both of you, or is playing sides, so she hides and reveals information as it suits her. In which case, that is petty and manipulative. The only person who can tell if your friend is the first or second kind of person, is you. And maybe, you thought she was one but it turns out she is the other, in which case this is an excellent opportunity to evaluate the friendship - BEFORE you have chosen a WP. I say these things as someone who has been through an startlingly similar situation. My BEST friend in college stayed friends with my college ex after we split up, and because almost everyone chose his side (he pulled a similar stunt to J), I lost a lot of friends and she hung out with the "group", so I lost a part of her too. I spent years being furious with her about it under the surface, and recently she neglected to tell me about how close she was with my ex's newest ex. I realized later that, had it been me, would I have made a big production of telling me that Will had a new GF, but they broke up, etc etc? No, probably not. She is not gossipy, a thing I always liked about her. While I think she could have handled it a little differently, I was also able to see it better from her point of view and let it go. Which is obviously easier said than done.
Posted by csousa1[/QUOTE]

C, thanks for sharing that story. I'm sorry you had to deal with a similar situation (sucks, doesn't it?) but your perspective helps.

csousa1 · September 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_would-feel-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:448b3531-4c63-4343-bbcf-4430628bf475Post:3228fb2e-ca8b-4912-88d7-347122622931">Re: How would you feel? Long.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: How would you feel? Long. : C, thanks for sharing that story. I'm sorry you had to deal with a similar situation (sucks, doesn't it?) but your perspective helps.
Posted by Elle1036[/QUOTE]

Yes, it really does suck. I had a very candid conversation with her once (we are still quite close, like you and your friend), where I told her that the loss of her - and the rest of my friends for that matter - almost felt worse than the breakup itself. Friendship betrayals, whether they are intended or not, are extremely painful.

I really hope that it is nothing shady, that it was a case of good intentions that weren't handled as well as they could be, and that you are able to talk it over your friend without feeling too uncomfortable. Hugs!

Elle1036 · September 2011

Ugh, Yaga, that sucks. I would have been very hurt by that, too.

Keehleena · September 2011

I am sorry that this has happened to you but I will give you another side to this story......the "monkey in the middle" as someone above put it.

I ended up being put in a hard position between two people who were so close you would have thought they were twins. Later in life they had a huge falling out and still to this day they can barely manage being civil when the other person's name is brought up (and it has almost been 15 years). I was really close with both of these girls and they both tried to force me to choose between them. I eventually had to set them down and let them know if they were going to "make me choose" then I wouldn't choose either of them. To this day even that thought still hurts me, because I may not be as close to them as I was, but losing them would be very hard.

Before I let them know I wasn't about to be the monkey in the middle anymore they badmouthed each other constantly in front of me, and I had to remember to censor my thoughts, feelings, and reactions in front of them to avoid a big fight. It went so far as to if I did not instantly agree with them about how "horrible" the other person was they would pick a fight. I felt that they were acting childish and they needed to grow up. I couldn't believe that people who I pretty much believed to be my sisters could act that way.

I understand this guy hurt you badly (and then lied about it, which I find unacceptable behavior, but yeah), but if you jump all over your friend you may just lose her. She may just be "censoring" herself as I had to do so that she can avoid the negativity that follows (whether that be as simple as the frown on your face and the pain in your eyes or something much worse...even though you said you don't badmouth him there may be other things that you do that may make your friend feel bad).

Some people cherish in a friend someone who can tell them everything, but some people just try to make their friends happy... Your friend may be the second type and hates to see you upset, but has a hard time just cutting ties with another good friend for the sake of another's happiness...So she doesn't tell you everything.

You do need to sit her down and let her know how you feel, but just a warning... if you give an ultimatum (make her choose), expect the worst.

dragonwagon · September 2011

I heard a saying once "Wash you hands of "friends" that associate with your enemies."

You may not consider him an enemy, but I thought this quote might be helpful. I certainly started living by it after getting back-stabbed a few times.

How would you feel? Long.

Re: How would you feel? Long.

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