Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding

jennkutz · December 2011

The story is: my best friend is having a court house wedding then in a year she is having a real wedding. Do i get her a gift for both or just one and if one which one? Please help, its in three weeks!!!

specialk84 · December 2011

If you want to give her a gift, give it after the courthouse wedding. That is her real wedding.

TBH, I probably wouldn't make any huge effort to go to her vow renewal, and I would not give her a gift. Perhaps a card, but absolutely not a gift.

MyNameIsNot · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_court-house-wedding-then-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:664858ac-eca3-40f2-9491-551af05aef16Post:6e7648e3-7409-4482-bd7c-66e8629634b4">Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]The story is: my best friend is having a court house wedding then in a year she is having a real wedding. Do i get her a gift for both or just one and if one which one? Please help, its in three weeks!!!
Posted by jennkutz[/QUOTE]

<div>The courthouse wedding is the real wedding. The event later is a fake wedding, or a vow renewal.</div><div>
</div><div>I would give a gift immediately following the actual wedding. I might give a card after the other event, but probably not.</div>

freebread03 · December 2011

When she gets married at the courthouse, that's her wedding. Not the party she throws a year later--that's a vow renewal.

I always think its unfortunate that a lot of people don't consider a JOP wedding a "real" wedding. I wouldn't give a present for both.

I hope you tell your friend that it's in bad taste to have two "weddings" or whatever she's calling them.

ElisabethJoanne · December 2011

What religion is she? Where will the religious wedding be? Some religions, in some places, require civil weddings before religious weddings. The Prince and Princess of Monaco are a high-profile example. In such instances, the later, religious wedding is considered "the real wedding."

azdancer8 · December 2011

Well, first of all, her court house wedding IS her real wedding. The second one is a vow renewal. I'd stick with just one gift, but I'm not sure when you'd give it to her.

Simply Fated · December 2011

Saying that her real wedding is occurring at a later date means that the courthouse wedding is a sham. Is she pretending to get married at the courthouse or is she really going through with it? If it's real, it's real. I'd get her a wedding gift at her wedding. Her wedding is the event shell be getting married at. I'm guessing that's the courthouse event? You don't need to get her a gift for a vow renewal that's taking place so soon after the wedding.

GeauxTigers17 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_court-house-wedding-then-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:664858ac-eca3-40f2-9491-551af05aef16Post:9580b054-48c5-4660-80d4-03adb4ce27c9">Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]What religion is she? Where will the religious wedding be? Some religions, in some places, require civil weddings before religious weddings. The Prince and Princess of Monaco are a high-profile example. In such instances, the later, religious wedding is considered "the real wedding."
Posted by ElisabethJoanne[/QUOTE]

Considering that her ppd is a year later, I don't buy it. In situations like the one you describe, the ceremonies take place very close together, not a year apart.

lyndausvi · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_court-house-wedding-then-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:664858ac-eca3-40f2-9491-551af05aef16Post:b2528708-17d3-4851-a34d-a315cdab7e1c">Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding : Considering that her ppd is a year later, I don't buy it. In situations like the one you describe, the ceremonies take place very close together, not a year apart.
Posted by GeauxTigers17[/QUOTE]

<div>Ditto.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

tally7 · December 2011

It depends on what you want to do and on your budget - you can get her whatever you want for either one - a nice card or gift for either of both will be nice. With gifths you shold just give what you can afford and what you think will be appreciated --

banana468 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_court-house-wedding-then-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:664858ac-eca3-40f2-9491-551af05aef16Post:9580b054-48c5-4660-80d4-03adb4ce27c9">Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]What religion is she? Where will the religious wedding be? Some religions, in some places, require civil weddings before religious weddings. The Prince and Princess of Monaco are a high-profile example. In such instances, the later, religious wedding is considered "the real wedding."
Posted by ElisabethJoanne[/QUOTE]

That's Monaco. If we're talking about a situation in the US then your argument is Swiss Cheese.

Meg1036 · December 2011

haha, Swiss cheese. Nice, Banana.

J&K10910 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_court-house-wedding-then-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:664858ac-eca3-40f2-9491-551af05aef16Post:9580b054-48c5-4660-80d4-03adb4ce27c9">Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]What religion is she? Where will the religious wedding be? Some religions, in some places, require civil weddings before religious weddings. The Prince and Princess of Monaco are a high-profile example. In such instances, the later, religious wedding is considered "the real wedding."
Posted by ElisabethJoanne[/QUOTE]

Are you suggesting the OP's friend is the soon to be Princess of Monaco?

mica178 · December 2011

1. The US and Canada recognize religious ceremonies as valid for legal marriage, whereas many Central/South American and European countries do not.

2. In those countries, usually the civil and religious ceremony happen within days of each other, not a year.

3. In those countries, people are not expected to give gifts for both the civil and religious ceremony.

4. Unless your friend is not living with her new husband and/or treating him like a roommate, she has decided to reap all the rewards of the legal wedding, and the second "wedding" is just for show and ego.

tally7 · December 2011

Ok - I am part of a very diverse and intenational family/friend set just FYI:

Not all religious ceremonies in the US are recognized - that is a huge generalization.

In other countries the ceremonies can in fact happen within years of each other I have family members in other countries and it depends on each couple, their religion, etc - there is rule it has to be on the same weekend/day /month

Religious ceremonies do count in other countries as a legal marriage depends on the institution and wether there is an official religion in the country.

Show and ego - well I can't judge on that - live and let live

redheadfsu · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_court-house-wedding-then-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:664858ac-eca3-40f2-9491-551af05aef16Post:c9a62b47-628c-43b9-9834-d89bcf2a1582">Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]Ok - I am part of a very diverse and intenational family/friend set just FYI: <strong>Not all religious ceremonies in the US are recognized</strong>- that is a huge generalization. In other countries the ceremonies can in fact happen within years of each other I have family members in other countries and it depends on each couple, their religion, etc - there is rule it has to be on the same weekend/day /month Religious ceremonies do count in other countries as a legal marriage depends on the institution and wether there is an official religion in the country. Show and ego - well I can't judge on that - live and let live
Posted by tally7[/QUOTE]

99.9% religious ceremonies are legally recognized. Please give examples of those that are not, because I think you are just blowing hot air. Really. Give real life examples here in the USA, which the Courts haven't overturned.

ETA: The rest of your post I think is hot air also, but I can't call your bluff on the rest of it ... yet (at least).

lyndausvi · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_court-house-wedding-then-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:664858ac-eca3-40f2-9491-551af05aef16Post:beffd6f8-37f9-4663-a148-2749c162e6aa">Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding : 99.9% religious ceremonies are legally recognized. Please give examples of those that are not, because I think you are just blowing hot air. Really. Give real life examples here in the USA, which the Courts haven't overturned. ETA: The rest of your post I think is hot air also, but I can't call your bluff on the rest of it ... yet (at least).
Posted by redheadfsu[/QUOTE]

<div>I also wonder
<div>
<div>The only regligous ceremony that would be invalid would be if the officiant didn't met the state's requirements for performing a ceremony. I've seen it happen but only when the priest/minister/whatever is say from a different state.</div><div>
</div><div>It's not valid is not because of the religion, it's because of the officiant.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div></div></div>

redheadfsu · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_court-house-wedding-then-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:664858ac-eca3-40f2-9491-551af05aef16Post:19c6236e-9fc4-40f6-93c6-4260e6f22823">Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding : I also wonder The only regligous ceremony that would be invalid would be if the officiant didn't met the state's requirements for performing a ceremony. I've seen it happen but only when the priest/minister/whatever is say from a different state. It's not valid is not because of the religion, it's because of the officiant.
Posted by lyndausvi[/QUOTE]

Yep.

WildMagelet · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_court-house-wedding-then-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:664858ac-eca3-40f2-9491-551af05aef16Post:9de9ce8a-4fd0-4e81-bde2-7de0b597e06c">Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding : Yep.
Posted by redheadfsu[/QUOTE]

This. MO for example requires the officiant to be in good standing with a church in MO, so my uncle, whose congregation was in MS, wouldn't be able to just drive to MO and marry us. Nor would my friend who got ordained via mail/internet and has officiated in IL.

vilvadias · December 2011

Honestly, SpecialK, give your friend a gift for her Ceremony, not the CH wedding.

In a perfect world, we all get to have our beautiful, religious ceremony exactly when we want to, and it all works out just how it's supposed to according to tradition.

Well, some of us don't get that option. I am Active duty military, and I am engaged to another Active Duty service member. We want soooo badly to just have our wedding ceremony, and do it the traditional way, but to do that would mean us getting stationed in two separate places first, and then hoping that our leave days match in order to have the ceremony, and then going through all the paperwork and red tape to get stationed together. So, ok, sure, maybe we are "reaping the benefits" by having the Court House marriage first, but just because we are military, and we get deployed, does that mean we are frowned upon because we are trying to insure we can stay together?

My fiance and I plan on having a CH marriage when we get back from deployment, and plan on inviting our Soldiers and friends in the area to that. And then, once we move to our next duty station, and we have settled into our next unit, we plan on having our ceremony. But, we don't plan on me taking his last name until we have had our Vow Renewal in front of our friends, family, and the Lord. The Vow Renewal means so much to us, and I am certain that your friend feels the same way. If it were possible for her to have her Ceremony and have everything work out the way she dreamed of, I'm sure she would have done it. She obviously has a very good reason to do the CH wedding first. So, play along with it, and give a gift at the Ceremony, not the CH wedding.

I really hope this helps.

MyNameIsNot · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_court-house-wedding-then-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:664858ac-eca3-40f2-9491-551af05aef16Post:19c6236e-9fc4-40f6-93c6-4260e6f22823">Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding : I also wonder <strong>The only regligous ceremony that would be invalid would be if the officiant didn't met the state's requirements for performing a ceremony.</strong> I've seen it happen but only when the priest/minister/whatever is say from a different state. It's not valid is not because of the religion, it's because of the officiant.
Posted by lyndausvi[/QUOTE]

<div>Or if it's something where the religion recognizes the marriage but the state doesn't. Say, "marriage" to the third spouse in a religion that recognizes polygamy. </div>

sessionswedding · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_court-house-wedding-then-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:664858ac-eca3-40f2-9491-551af05aef16Post:beffd6f8-37f9-4663-a148-2749c162e6aa">Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding : 99.9% religious ceremonies are legally recognized. Please give examples of those that are not, because I think you are just blowing hot air. Really. Give <strong>real life examples here in the USA, which the Courts haven't overturned.</strong> ETA: The rest of your post I think is hot air also, but I can't call your bluff on the rest of it ... yet (at least).
Posted by redheadfsu[/QUOTE]
Quaker weddings. There is no officiant in them, and they are only valid in the state of Pennsylvania. There was another Knottie on here a while back who wanted to get married in this way but was worried because they were planning on moving to another state and would have to "get married" again.

tally7 · December 2011

Well there are people who are part of religions that either do not have an official priest/etc, or an ordained officiant and are small religions - if you think all religions in the US are mainstream and recognized your are living in a part of the country where people are not part of alternative religions.

Note:

The celebrant, also known as the officiant, is the person who conducts the wedding. If the celebrant has the authority to declare the wedding legally binding, they are also known as a solemnizer. Unfortunately, many countries and US states make it difficult for weddings ceremonies to be legally recognized if they are not conducted by an ordained religious minister or government representative.

Everying in my post is true, you may not agree with it, but its true - many cultures have many alternatives to wedding celebrations - not eveyone walks into a big church and a big dress and has only one ceremony --

redheadfsu · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_court-house-wedding-then-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:664858ac-eca3-40f2-9491-551af05aef16Post:8766e64e-7570-4c4b-a6be-f79fdd39a4d5">Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding : Quaker weddings. There is no officiant in them, and they are only valid in the state of Pennsylvania. There was another Knottie on here a while back who wanted to get married in this way but was worried because they were planning on moving to another state and would have to "get married" again.
Posted by sessionswedding[/QUOTE]

Well, Florida recognizes Quaker marriages (and I thought all the other states do too). I don't know of a state that doesn't recognize it, so I would need more details.

Plus, if the marriage is valid in the state they got married in, then it would be recognized elsewhere (as long as not illegal - like bigamy)

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_court-house-wedding-then-real-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:664858ac-eca3-40f2-9491-551af05aef16Post:aa877cf1-01e4-4673-86e8-720cf3e806c4">Re: Court House Wedding and Then the real Wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]Well there are people who are part of religions that either do not have an official priest/etc, or an ordained officiant and are small religions - if you think all religions in the US are mainstream and recognized your are living in a part of the country where people are not part of alternative religions. Note: The celebrant, also known as the officiant, is the person who conducts the wedding. If the celebrant has the authority to declare the wedding legally binding, they are also known as a solemnizer. Unfortunately, many countries and US states make it difficult for weddings ceremonies to be legally recognized if they are not conducted by an ordained religious minister or government representative. Everying in my post is true, you may not agree with it, but its true - many cultures have many alternatives to wedding celebrations - not eveyone walks into a big church and a big dress and has only one ceremony --
Posted by tally7[/QUOTE]

Well, if there is no officiant then that is a problem. I would like you to give examples, as I am not familiar with this and I would like to look at case law to double check that the courts haven't addressed this.

<strong>But I don't understand why you couldn't just have a notary (or other person who can perform marriages in that state) be there witness the ceremony & sign the papers after the couple is done with their ceremony.</strong>

RamonaFlowers · December 2011

For Quaker marriages, as long as they are performed in a state where they are valid, the marriage itself should be recognized in other states, even if they couldn't have that kind of ceremony in the state. There are many states that don't allow gay couples to wed in state ... but if those couples go to a state like Vermont, where it is legal, when they go back home, the marriage is recognized by the state they live in.

Chances are, the couple in question is just looking for the benefits of being married, but still want to play dress up and have a fancy cake. If the second before you (general you) walk down the aisle on your Pretty Princess Day, you or your FI decides that you want to break up with the other person, and you have to get divorced to actually make said break up happen, then you had your "real wedding" already.

jennkutz · December 2011

Thank you for your advice. She is marrying a military guy so it is like your situation! Thanks!

Goldlie11 · December 2011

I find the wording of the post is offensive. The real wedding is the court house wedding. There are plenty of people who JOP and leave it at that, which is fine.

Anyway, I would get the gift after the court house wedding assuming you will be in attendance. If you are not attending the court house wedding, I would wait until you attend the renewal. That's just me.

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