When is it time to give an ultimatum??

blessedinthewest · October 2010

I am in love. Have been for 2.5 years. My BF and I have known each other for years and after both being divorced we met up and started a relationship. I made the huge mistake of getting pregnant (BTW it was planned because at the time we were so head over heels it just seemed right and I had just turned 30 and was very ready to have a child- yes I know I'm an idiot). At the time I just figured we both loved each other and would eventually get around to getting married.

Well now here I am with a 10 mth old baby and a man who says that he loves me and wants to raise his son with me but is not ready for marriage. Bascially he told me that marrying me scares him because he says that he is not happy with the way I have reacted to certain situations. I have been jealous and somewhat controlling of him.

I have had my "a-ha" moment and realize that I need to stop being jealous. I know that I cannot control him and the decesions he makes. I know I have to just let it go and trust him. He has a very friendly/flirty personality and that is what attracted me to him in the first place so I need to accept that. As far as I know he has never cheated in a relationship and I have no evidence that he has ever cheated on me. So starting immediately I have decided to stop being jealous.

However, in the back of my mind I just keep thinking it is too late and that he will never want to marry me. I don't want to stay stuck in a dead end relationship. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

katanne9 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_time-give-ultimatum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:63ee8af0-5dd6-4c9c-b489-9a0e54b58d42Post:17f7e757-4869-4c9c-b783-9e62913c0714">When is it time to give an ultimatum??</a>:
[QUOTE]I am in love. Have been for 2.5 years. My BF and I have known each other for years and after both being divorced we met up and started a relationship. I made the huge mistake of getting pregnant (BTW it was planned because at the time we were so head over heels it just seemed right and I had just turned 30 and was very ready to have a child- yes I know I'm an idiot). At the time I just figured we both loved each other and would eventually get around to getting married. Well now here I am with a 10 mth old baby and a man who says that he loves me and wants to raise his son with me but is not ready for marriage. Bascially he told me that marrying me scares him because he says that he is not happy with the way I have reacted to certain situations. I have been jealous and somewhat controlling of him. I have had my "a-ha" moment and realize that I need to stop being jealous. I know that I cannot control him and the decesions he makes. I know I have to just let it go and trust him. He has a very friendly/flirty personality and that is what attracted me to him in the first place so I need to accept that. As far as I know he has never cheated in a relationship and I have no evidence that he has ever cheated on me. So starting immediately I have decided to stop being jealous. However, in the back of my mind I just keep thinking it is too late and that he will never want to marry me. I don't want to stay stuck in a dead end relationship. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Posted by MrsGarciatobe[/QUOTE]

IMO, ultimatums are a sign that a relationship is OVER. It's never a healthy sign.

You need to sit down like adults and have a frank conversation about it. What does he see for you two in the next year, 5 years? You need to be honest and ask questions without forcing him.

Honestly, if he's been married before and now has a child with you and you've been together for 2.5 years and after you've talked to him he still isn't willing to commit, I don't know if he ever will. Maybe this should be a situation you should be walking away from, not forcing.

Wrkn925 · October 2010

Only the two of you know the entire story and what is behind it. Marriage is a big decision, and it should never be preceded by an ultimatum.
You will not do your child any favors by entering a marriage simply because you have a child together.

Please ensure that you have a healthy relationship with you boyfriend before you get married. Make sure you are doing it for the right reasons. Be 100% positive that the two of you are commited to entering a lifelong journey.

As for jealousy, it creates an ugly person. I don't know exactly why you feel jealous, but you and your BF should confront these feelings together, and work through them. If the two of you cannot come to a conclusion that satisfies you both, then you shouldn't be considering marriage.

I really wish you the best, and I hope things work out for you. Just try really hard to take a healthy perspective of what you two have. The two of you need to consider the child you have together, he is what matters. You need to have a healthy relationship to be a good example for him.

Don't push your BF into such a big decision, you both need to be ready.

/Unicorn vomit over.

oceana919 · October 2010

Fair warning - you're likely going to get quite a bit harsh/blunt advice on this board, so hopefully you take it well.

1) Giving someone an ultimatum is a sure fire way to have it blow up in your face.

2) Your first and foremost priority right now should be your child, and being a good parent - not being a good bride.

3) You need to sit down and have a serious, adult conversation with your BF about your relationship - what you see for the future, what kind of general timeline you would like to see things progress, what things you both feel you need to work on (both individually and as a couple) to strengthen your relationship. You will not know if the roadblocks in your relationship are overcome-able if you don't sit down and have that conversation.

Your situation sounds all sorts of complicated...frankly, if I were you, I'd concentrate on strengthening your bond and your relationship, both as romantic partners and coparents, before I'd worry about hitting a certain "landmark" in your relationship timeline.

blessedinthewest · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_time-give-ultimatum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:63ee8af0-5dd6-4c9c-b489-9a0e54b58d42Post:47cc6922-2c7d-4049-9640-9b96b33a622b">Re: When is it time to give an ultimatum??</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to When is it time to give an ultimatum?? : IMO, ultimatums are a sign that a relationship is OVER. It's never a healthy sign. You need to sit down like adults and have a frank conversation about it. What does he see for you two in the next year, 5 years? You need to be honest and ask questions without forcing him. Honestly, if he's been married before and now has a child with you and you've been together for 2.5 years and after you've talked to him he still isn't willing to commit, I don't know if he ever will. Maybe this should be a situation you should be walking away from, not forcing.
Posted by katanne9[/QUOTE]
Thank you. Very good advice. I really like the idea of asking him where he sees the relationship in 1 year and 5 years. You are right, I do not intend to give him an ultimatium but I do some how want to know where exactly this relationship is headed. If he doesn't see us together in 5 years he needs to let me know.

Starlight Kel · October 2010

If you are working on his concerns than just give him time to see that you have changed.
IMO Deciding to have a baby with someone is a HUGE deal, if you both love each other that much and he has told you he loves you and wants to be a family than that should be all you need. I'm sure with him being divorced the last thing he wants is to be divorced again. Try not to focus on the marriage part, just focus on being a family and showing each other that you love and want to be with each other.

stemms8810 · October 2010

Oh goodness, I have been there. My daughters father and myself were together about 6 1/2 years when I finally figured out he wasn't willing to marry me or move forward with our relationship at all really, so I broke up with him. We had discussed getting married here and there but when it came down to actually having serious talks about it and getting things underway, he was just commitment phobic. I also realized that he had personality and character traits that weren't good husband material for me and I wasn't 100% happy.

From my experience, if he is resistent to marriage and you feel like you are in a dead-end relationship, you probably are. I really don't think giving an ulimatum is wise. You should want your BF to WANT to marry you on his own, not making him choose. Just my two cents because I have been in your situation. I would like to add that I am so much happier now being with a man who WANTS to be with me and marry me. I know it's a sticky situation with a child but you deserve to be 100% happy with your relationship and how it's progressing.

Wrkn925 · October 2010

Such great advice from some very smart ladies.

I would encourage a group hug if it wouldn't get me stoned.

bethsmiles · October 2010

Why was getting pregnant a huge mistake? Your entire post confuses me. But I will make a few points.

1)You are a new mom although its good to think about the future but I don't think that a wedding needs to be on your mind right now.

2) Just because you say you aren't going to be jealous doesn't mean that its going to be an easy thing to do. If there are things that you and your BF need to work on in your relationship its important that you really work on them and give it time before getting married.

3) If I were you I would just focus on the baby and working your relationship. Live in the right now. Don't pressure your BF into marriage. It will happen eventually but you can't rush it.

calindi · October 2010

Short answer: Never. There is never a time to give an ultimatum.

Long answer: Thank you for coming back and responding graciously to the responses you got. As some girls mentioned, we often get girls who go off the hook and flip out when we don't tell them what they want to hear. In this case, I agree with Kat - by the time you feel the need to issue an ultimatum, communication has failed. You need to have an adult conversation about where you see your relationship progressing, to let him know in a calm manner that you would like to get married, and ask him if that's a path he sees, also, and on what approximate timeline (within the next year, two years, at a certain milestone like saving $X amount of money, etc.) If after that conversation you aren't satisfied with the outlook, then you can decide whether or not you want to stay in the relationship. It sounds like you do, that you're just a little frustrated and impatient, and that's okay. You just need to handle it in the right way.

By the way, you saying that you "made a huge mistake by getting pregnant" makes me a little sad. Your son should not be in any way considered a mistake - sure, you might now feel you were a bit hasty and should have waited a little while, but you have what I presume is a healthy happy baby boy, and he has two parents that love him and love each other. The fact that you're not married yet should in no way reflect on your decision to have a baby that will enrich your life for years to come. I won't judge you for choosing to have a baby before you got married, so no worries on that.

Also, if you have jealousy issues, it's great you've decided to reign them in. Perhaps start talking to a psychologist to help you realize where they're stemming from and how to communicate these worries in a more productive manner?

PaigeMcC · October 2010

Ditto Kat and Oceana. Smart cookies.

katanne9 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_time-give-ultimatum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:63ee8af0-5dd6-4c9c-b489-9a0e54b58d42Post:d588ca64-4940-4ee0-a7ca-6e89e50473f7">Re: When is it time to give an ultimatum??</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: When is it time to give an ultimatum?? : Thank you. Very good advice. I really like the idea of asking him where he sees the relationship in 1 year and 5 years. You are right, I do not intend to give him an ultimatium <strong>but I do some how want to know where exactly this relationship is headed. If he doesn't see us together in 5 years he needs to let me know.</strong>
Posted by MrsGarciatobe[/QUOTE]

*Phew! You didn't flip out

I'm really glad you are going to talk to him. A lot of girls come here and freak out when he give them the same advice.

You need to do yourself and your child a favor - and make sure he is the RIGHT man. Communication is key. See where he sees you guys in the future and keep us posted. If he doesn't see a future for you, I'm sure you'd rather find out now.

Good luck : )

[Deleted User] · October 2010

First of all, is this the man you really WANT to marry? Just because you have been together x-amt of years and have a child together doesn't mean he's the man you should marry. You really need to do what is right and best for you and your son at this point. And I agree with everyone else, that you need to sit down and have a very serious conversation with him. If he in fact, does not plan on ever marrying you then I think it's would be time to re-think the relationship all together and it might be time for you to move on. Sounds like an extremely delicate situation... Hope everything turns out well for you!

Oh and yes, thank you for not freaking out after everyone's advice.

mzm153 · October 2010

I had a boyfriend whom I dated for 2 years. For sometime I was hoping to get the relationship to the next level but later I figured out he didn't wanna marry me at all and that the relationship was going backwards, but he still wanted to keep dating me. What did I do? I broke up with him, since keeping dating him would mean wasting my time and missing out on finding other people really willing to get married.

Now I have been dating another guy for one year and I am in love. A lot of people say that one year is enough to know whether the SO is the one, but from experience, I think at least three years without any hint that the relationship is going to fail in the future would be the time to start expecting something of that sort. Just saying.

Wish you all the best.

blessedinthewest · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_time-give-ultimatum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:63ee8af0-5dd6-4c9c-b489-9a0e54b58d42Post:4906ec16-cb24-476e-8991-5a8e7d50831f">Re: When is it time to give an ultimatum??</a>:
[QUOTE]Short answer: Never. There is never a time to give an ultimatum. Long answer: Thank you for coming back and responding graciously to the responses you got. As some girls mentioned, we often get girls who go off the hook and flip out when we don't tell them what they want to hear. In this case, I agree with Kat - by the time you feel the need to issue an ultimatum, communication has failed. You need to have an adult conversation about where you see your relationship progressing, to let him know in a calm manner that you would like to get married, and ask him if that's a path he sees, also, and on what approximate timeline (within the next year, two years, at a certain milestone like saving $X amount of money, etc.) If after that conversation you aren't satisfied with the outlook, then you can decide whether or not you want to stay in the relationship. It sounds like you do, that you're just a little frustrated and impatient, and that's okay. You just need to handle it in the right way. By the way, you saying that you "made a huge mistake by getting pregnant" makes me a little sad. Your son should not be in any way considered a mistake - sure, you might now feel you were a bit hasty and should have waited a little while, but you have what I presume is a healthy happy baby boy, and he has two parents that love him and love each other. The fact that you're not married yet should in no way reflect on your decision to have a baby that will enrich your life for years to come. I won't judge you for choosing to have a baby before you got married, so no worries on that. Also, if you have jealousy issues, it's great you've decided to reign them in. Perhaps start talking to a psychologist to help you realize where they're stemming from and how to communicate these worries in a more productive manner?
Posted by calindi[/QUOTE]
I love my son and I wouldn't change anything if I could. However I think it is very accurate to say that I made the decesion to have a baby without the full picture of where this relationship was headed. I blindly assumed that my BF felt the same way about me as I do him. But it does make me very sad to think that my BF has doubts. It makes me sad to know that I am 100% committed to the father of my child, but that somewhere inside of him he probably feels like he shoudn't have had a baby with me. It kills me to think that in his mind somewhere he is probably thinking that if we hadn't of had a baby he could easily have left this jealous/controlling woman and found someone else. Maybe he has these thoughts and maybe he doesn't, but I can only assume he does if he is so against getting married to me.

Beads921 · October 2010

There is never a time to give an ultimatum. Never. Ultimatums usually mean there is something wrong with the relationship, and they certainly aren't going to fix that. Other than that:

First and foremost (and this is solely my opinion and many will disagree with me): unmarried=/=dead end relationship. Your BF has said he doesn't want to get married, NOT that he doesn't want to be with you in the future. Those are 2 different things. He legitimately might not be ready for marriage right now, but 5 years from now that could be different. Which is why you need to talk to him (see paragraph 3).

Secondly, it also makes me sad that you think having your child was a mistake. That mentality isn't going to help the child or the situation. Like a PP said, you should be focused on your child and being the best parent you can be, not focused on getting married ASAP. It's important for your son to have 2 loving parents who are together and a united parenting front (married or not).

And finally, ditto what the PPs said about talking to him. I think getting married is probably important to you, and you need to communicate that with him. You've recognised some things that might be holding your BF back, and it's time to talk to him about that. But don't let him give you excuses - that's not fair to you.

nottheonlydreamer44 · October 2010

You received some really good advice so far and I'm happy to see you are taking it well. I will ditto Kat and Cate, as well. I have a few concerns/questions however.

1.) Obviously issuing an ultimatum is a huge no factor. Especially when he is already, what appears to be, extremely resistant to getting married.

2.) Is your SN wishful thinking or because you really were about to issue an ultimatum? For some reason it irks me but that's not that big a deal.

3.) Why is your child a mistake and why are you an idiot? If the two of you PLANNED to have a child, it seems like that would be a blessing. Is it because you feel like you did things backwards and that he would be ready to marry you, if the two of you didn't already have a child? If so, that doesn't really make any sense, it sounds more like he's dragging his feet.

4.) You can say you had your "a-ha" moment all day long but it doesn't make it any easier to just stop doing something completely. Particularly when that something is emotional, like jealousy. Honestly, if he says he can't marry you because you got jealous a few times -- that is red flag territory for me. Unless you completely flipped the f-out and busted windows or something, I find it odd that a man would put off marrying the mother of his child.

5.) Sometimes just because you want things to be right, they aren't. It's possible this is a dead end and with you being a new mom I urge you to put the focus on your child and not on trying to force a man into marrying you. I honestly don't even like the "where do you see us in 5 years" convo because it's not absurd to think he would just lead you on there, too.

Only you can decide what you feel is right for your relationship. If he wants to be with you just not get married, can you handle that? Or is marriage to him that important? Think about these things and what's best for your son before you go into anything permanent (breaking it off or marrying him).

GL to you and I hope it works out!

ETA: I saw your response about why you wish you wouldn't have had a baby but I still think it's a blessing either way. Also, no idea why my posts are centered again. Grr.

calindi · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_time-give-ultimatum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:63ee8af0-5dd6-4c9c-b489-9a0e54b58d42Post:e563455a-58d2-4d4f-ba5e-acdcfbebb555">Re: When is it time to give an ultimatum??</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: When is it time to give an ultimatum?? : I love my son and I wouldn't change anything if I could. However I think it is very accurate to say that I made the decesion to have a baby without the full picture of where this relationship was headed. I blindly assumed that my BF felt the same way about me as I do him. But it does make me very sad to think that my BF has doubts. It makes me sad to know that I am 100% committed to the father of my child, but that somewhere inside of him he probably feels like he shoudn't have had a baby with me. It kills me to think that in his mind somewhere he is probably thinking that if we hadn't of had a baby he could easily have left this jealous/controlling woman and found someone else. Maybe he has these thoughts and maybe he doesn't, but I can only assume he does if he is so against getting married to me.
Posted by MrsGarciatobe[/QUOTE]

Okay, that's fair, just the way you said it in your first post made me think you said it was a mistake to have your son, which made me sad.

Anyway, if he's open to it, try couples counseling. If he's not, go talk to a counselor yourself. It sounds like he has some valid concerns - don't automatically assume that you were misreading his feelings or intentions when you had a baby. Chances are you both love each other a lot, wanted a family, and simply have some issues to work through. It's not that he doesn't ever want to marry you, but that right now your relationship has some places that it needs to improve so there's no reason to rush into the next step when you can work on the issues right now and make yourselves stronger before moving forward. It's fantastic that you've made the decision to stop being jealous, and a psychologist can help you talk through those jealous impulses and help you figure out where they're coming from and how to handle them without reacting badly.

cruisebunny7 · October 2010

I agree 110% with all the girls!! You need to see if he is willing to work on your relationship or even if he sees a future with you both in it. Trust me, you don't want to be with a guy just because he is the father of your baby. I am a divorced single mom with 2 young children. My exH made good money and provided a good life, but he was not into us at all. He felt the need to get married when we found out I was pregnant with our oldest child, and we had a horrible relationship. You deserve a man who wants to be with you, regardless of what happened to him personally in the past. Your son will be just fine as long as he has his mother to take good care of him, the rest will fall into place. There are many guys out there who will be good to the both of you, my SO loves my kids, he shows off their pictures to everyone and even changed his diet and lifestyle (my son is autistic and allergic to basically any food on earth) just so he can be here supportive of the experience we are going through with my son and his therapy. My exH has nothing to do with the kids, and I am glad, SO is amazing for all of us as a whole. If you have to force this guy to marry you I would re-consider. Good Luck either way!!

loves2shop4shoes · October 2010

You were really really irresponsible to intentionally have a baby with a guy you merely ASSUMED would marry you.

The way I see it, now you can either deal with being a GF forever for the sake of your child and raise him in a house full of fighting OR you can leave your BF (because if he hasn't married you after years together AND a baby, let's face it, it's probably not likely to happen) and have your child be from a broken home.

Either way, your child will be the one to suffer. Really, really not smart.

The only advice I can give you is, now that you have this baby, put the CHILD'S best interest before your own.

SeaTea02 · October 2010

Listen to PP.

Ultimatums are never a good idea. The only two possible results are

1) you get married; he didn't really want to; he resents you; and your relationship is strained

or

2) you break up.

You need to talk to him. Not threaten.

jemmini6 · October 2010

I can't give you anymore advise that hasn't been given yet (PP's are smart cookies). I wish you the best in working things out with your BF. You sound like a sane person, so stick around and let us know how things progress.

heyimbren · October 2010

You got a lot of advice from the PP, Garcia. I just want to add a couple things:

1) Did he say that he doesn't want to get married at all, or not right now/in the near future? Those are two very different things.

2) How important is being married in your opinion? Is it a deal breaker for you? Answer this: would you rather stay with him as his GF forever, or end the relationship and try moving on and hopefully find someone else who does want to get married?

I agree that your main focus should be on your child, there's no going back to change the past now. However, that doesn't mean you don't have dreams of your own. But you need to figure out what's important to you. I also don't think you should stay with him just because you're hoping to get married and he's the father of your child- that doesn't necessarily make a good marriage.

SassyBrass · October 2010

You have gotten some good advice here. Go smart cookies! What's more, you've listened. You didn't freak out if it wasn't what you were hoping to hear.

I don't need to keep posting the same points and all, but you do need to at least have the communication with him. Not necessarily an ultimatum, or a where are we heading talk, but a place where you can clear the air so you both have an understanding on why things are where they are.
I would also recommend counseling if you have a hard time with it. You owe it to yourself and your son to know if your life plans are going to happen. And don't assume it's never going to happen because your son is only 10 months old. The rest of your life together shouldn't have a deadline date. It does sound like you have some work to do before you guys take that next step. Good luck.

AudgiePodge · October 2010

What if he were to give you an ultimatum: Don't ever talk about marriage again, or I'll leave.

How would that make you feel? How would you react?

SeaTea02 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_time-give-ultimatum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:63ee8af0-5dd6-4c9c-b489-9a0e54b58d42Post:fd4b2588-1f1f-425e-9248-1bfffae4ded0">Re: When is it time to give an ultimatum??</a>:
[QUOTE]What if he were to give you an ultimatum: Don't ever talk about marriage again, or I'll leave. How would that make you feel? How would you react?
Posted by AudgiePodge[/QUOTE]

Touche.

Good point.

mzm153 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_time-give-ultimatum?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:63ee8af0-5dd6-4c9c-b489-9a0e54b58d42Post:fd4b2588-1f1f-425e-9248-1bfffae4ded0">Re: When is it time to give an ultimatum??</a>:
[QUOTE]What if he were to give you an ultimatum: Don't ever talk about marriage again, or I'll leave. How would that make you feel? How would you react?
Posted by AudgiePodge[/QUOTE]
I agree, you made a good point. If giving an ultimatum, which is not a good idea, be ready to receive that kind of answer and then offer to walk away yourself, if you really wanna get married.
I'd never dream of giving an ultimatum. In my previous post I meant that after three years I would expect my SO to either propose or we decide which other direction to take the relationship (breaking up, wait longer, decide whether getting married is part of the plans anywhere in the future, etc).

When is it time to give an ultimatum??

Re: When is it time to give an ultimatum??

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