Healthcare Mandate

Starmusica · June 2012

ok putting aside the fact that CNN blew it today- this is a useful breakdown

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/28/politics/supreme-court-health-effects/index.html

annie912 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:c554efd2-541b-4605-8bc3-aa96dc67f96a">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]Im pretty disgusted with the decision. Im all for healthcare reform, but I would have liked to see it done on a smaller scale so that we knew exactly what each reform bill said and meant. Taking a huge bill and passing it through leaves a lot of room for big problems. If they had come out and done it in smaller sections, like "here is a bill to make it possible for pre-existing conditions to have access", great, pass it. Things like that. One whole big bill that we "had to pass to know whats in it" is scary to me and too Big Brother for my taste.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

I agree with this completely. It's a huge flaw in our system. The skeptic in me thinks, though, that it's never going to change. Do you work with (or around) the system you've got, or do you hold off trying to do anything until the system is fixed, knowing that quite likely it never will be?

allisong23 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:7b2e5717-2818-4ece-b942-d4447cdca5b6">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm not sure how I feel about this. I guess I have mixed feelings. On one handing demanding everyone carry insurance seems like car insurance seems like a good idea in theory. But how they hell can we manage this? How are we going to track who has it and who doesn't?
Posted by Dot Dash[/QUOTE]

In MA, you get a letter from your insurance company at the end of the year confirming you had coverage for whatever dates you had it (full year, partial year). When we fill out our taxes, you check that you had it for whatever time you had it. I don't know how the insurance companies communicate with the state, but they do and it doesn't seem to be an issue.

allisong23 · June 2012

Michelle Bachman is such a freaking idiot. Just saying.

mica178 · June 2012

I think the whole ACA had to exist as it was written, because if the bill just increased coverage without the individual mandate, it would be just increasing costs. The individual mandate supposedly lowers costs by 1. increasing government revenue from individuals who elect not to get healthcare coverage, and 2. lowering insurance premiums if more healthy individuals get insurance (since that's how insurance works -- the non/low-utilizers who buy in help subsidize the high-users of the service).

This is what I wrote on E:

I love Justice Roberts for his involvement in the decision.

I hate the ACA. I think it continues the damaged healthcare system. But I don't question its constitutionality. I just think it sucks and hope that someone (who won't sell out to the big insurance companies or to other special interest) comes up with a better, financially feasible option.

The nice thing about the SCOTUS ruling is that it's sort of win-win for both political candidates. Obama can say that he came up with ACA. Romney can say that if you hate Obamacare, you'll have to vote for him to get it repealed. Neither has to come up with a new plan during this election period.

mica178 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:c4856a3a-1083-47a6-9f12-365c5d819226">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]Michelle Bachman is such a freaking idiot. Just saying.
Posted by allisong23[/QUOTE]

<div>That is a very true statement in all situations.</div>

allisong23 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:d11cdce1-6c41-4156-9d7a-b21bf93494fa">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : So we are going to rely on the IRS to track this? Good lord.
Posted by Dot Dash[/QUOTE]

It ties in because of the tax penalty for not having coverage. Like I said, it has not been an issue here.

allisong23 · June 2012

Bachman is claiming that millions of jobs will leave the US because of ACA. Nice scare tactics. I despise her.

NicoleSahara · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:037b4296-0697-4ec5-866e-4ace894d9407">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]Another huge difference in comparing the health care decision to car insurance is that driving is not a right guaranteed to us. Driving is a privilege that we have to follow the rules to do. If you don't want to follow the rules, whether they be speed limits or carrying car insurance, you can make the choice not to have a driver's license. There is no similar opt-out to health insurance.
Posted by djhar[/QUOTE]

Totally agree. I am so pissed.

AllAboutTheBenjamin · June 2012

The law could not stand without the mandate. There is no way. That's how the entire thing was paid for. If the SCOTUS struck down the mandate it would be sayonara to the whole law.

brandichamberlain · June 2012

I'm in the "not sure" category. I think there are some good things that will come from this (taking into consideration what I've read in the CNN breakdown that I wasn't sure of before): pre-existing conditions, ability for children up to age 26 to be on insurance, breast feeding rooms, wellness programs for some small business owners, and the free preventative care. There are some more, but I won't make a laundry list of them. The downside to this will be the struggle many small business owners will face now and the taxing on families that can't afford it.

Can someone answer these?- is the family tax penalty by month or year? The $285 or 1% of income doesn't seem nearly as bad as the $2085.00 or 2.5% per family, but it still doesn't seem right. Also- how does this work if some members of the family are insured and some aren't? Is it a portion of that then?

annie912 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:037b4296-0697-4ec5-866e-4ace894d9407">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]Another huge difference in comparing the health care decision to car insurance is that driving is not a right guaranteed to us. Driving is a privilege that we have to follow the rules to do. If you don't want to follow the rules, whether they be speed limits or carrying car insurance, you can make the choice not to have a driver's license. There is no similar opt-out to health insurance.
Posted by djhar[/QUOTE]

I am not saying that they are the same thing, although I may not have made that clear. The connection I made was that the state told me in order to drive I have to buy insurance. They did not tell me what insurance I have to buy. The federal government is saying you have to have health insurance. They are not telling you which specific product to buy.

There are exemptions to the individual mandate, but not the ability to opt out. Just like I don't have the ability to opt out of paying social security taxes even though I am saving for my own retirement. If I (and others) could opt out of social security, the program ceases to work.

If people can opt out of insurance coverage, the health care plan doesn't work. In order to provide the additional coverage (pre-existing conditions, longer coverage for children, etc), there has to be a way for the insurance companies to be guaranteed additional income to offset those costs. If you only mandate that the insurance companies provide additional benefits, then they will offset it by increasing premuims for the currently insured.

Some people will chose to not get coverage and will decide that what they will pay for the tax (I'm still calling it a penalty, though) is less than what their premiums would be. That, in effect, is a choice to opt out. If you decide not to get coverage, you will be paying the tax. From what I've seen, the tax (penalty) doesn't appear to be that high. In reality, the government can't "force" you to buy insurance. They cannot just sign you up for it and have the premiums deducted from your bank account. If you elect not to, you pay the tax. That, to me, implies a choice.

chelseamb11 · June 2012

This mandate is definitely going to screw over my dad. He can't even afford his current bills. Idk what he's going to do about insurance.

annie912 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:b714e0e8-b8a5-4e32-9200-9a4a9fe2730a">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : ITA. I would also like to know who the exemptions are from being required to carry insurance? Is it based on income level?
Posted by jcbsjr[/QUOTE]

The federal health care reform law signed by President Obama in March 2010 will require most U.S. citizens and legal residents to have health insurance starting in 2014. These people will be required to purchase insurance or pay a flat-fee <a href="http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/8061.pdf" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">tax penalty</a> or a percentage of taxable income, whichever is greater, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.The tax penalty works out to $95 in 2014, $325 in 2015 and $695 in 2016. The taxable income figures are 1 percent in 2014, 2 percent in 2015 and 2.5 percent in 2016.While the majority of U.S. citizens and legal residents will be subject to these penalties, there are certain groups that will be exempt. <ul><li>Members of certain faiths: Practitioners of certain religions will be free from tax penalties. Under this exception, you must certify you are a member of a recognized religious sect. Who is exempt and what proof is needed are described in Internal Revenue Code Section 1402(g)(1). </li></ul>For example, an exempt people must adhere to the established teachings of a sect that has been in continuous existence since 1950. Such people must be "conscientiously opposed" to accepting benefits from any private or public insurance that makes payments in the event of death, disability, old age or retirement, or that makes payments toward the cost of medical care. This includes Social Security.For instance, Amish people who are exempt from paying Social Security and Medicare taxes (and therefore do not accept any of their benefits) may be exempt from the health care mandate and tax penalties.<ul><li>Health care sharing ministries: Nonprofit health care sharing ministries are organizations with members who share religious beliefs and agree to live certain lifestyles. Members pay shares toward their ministry, much like a conventional insurance premium, in exchange for health care when they need it. Medi-Share, a <a href="http://mychristiancare.org/how_does_it_work.aspx" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">health care sharing ministry</a> from the Christian Care Ministry, for example, matches members' contributions with other members' eligible medical bills on a monthly basis. </li></ul>To be exempt from tax penalties, people must certify that they are members of a recognized religious sect that shares a "common set of ethical or religious beliefs" and shares medical expenses among members according to those beliefs, regardless of where they live or work. These ministries must have been in existence continuously since at least Dec. 31, 1999, with uninterrupted medical expense sharing among members since then. These ministries must maintain a person's membership even after developing medical condition, and must conduct annual audits performed by an independent CPA firm and make those records available to the public.<ul><li>Income restraints: Tax penalty <a href="http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php/Sec._1402._Definitions" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">exemptions</a> will be granted people for whom the lowest-cost plan option exceeds 8 percent of income and for those with incomes below the tax filing threshold, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. </li></ul><ul><li>Hardships: Those suffering hardships may be exempt from the tax penalties of the <a href="http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr3590enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr3590enr.pdf" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">health care law</a>. If the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services determines someone has suffered a hardship that prevents them from obtaining qualified <a href="http://www.insureme.com/health-insurance/health-insurance-basics-you-should-know" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">health insurance</a> coverage, he or she may be exempt. </li></ul>Also exempt from tax penalties are Native Americans, those who haven't had coverage for up to 90 days, undocumented immigrants and imprisoned people, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.
<a href="http://www.insureme.com/health-insurance/whos-exempt-2014-health-insurance-mandate" rel="nofollow">http://www.insureme.com/health-insurance/whos-exempt-2014-health-insurance-mandate</a>

annie912 · June 2012

Sorry about the huge wall of text in the cut/paste. It won't let me add paragraphs.

brandichamberlain · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:7df5aaa1-533c-4f51-a64b-21d303de5cb4">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm in the "not sure" category. I think there are some good things that will come from this (taking into consideration what I've read in the CNN breakdown that I wasn't sure of before): pre-existing conditions, ability for children up to age 26 to be on insurance, breast feeding rooms, wellness programs for some small business owners, and the free preventative care. There are some more, but I won't make a laundry list of them. The downside to this will be the struggle many small business owners will face now and the taxing on families that can't afford it. Can someone answer these?- is the family tax penalty by month or year? The $285 or 1% of income doesn't seem nearly as bad as the $2085.00 or 2.5% per family, but it still doesn't seem right. Also- how does this work if some members of the family are insured and some aren't? Is it a portion of that then?
Posted by brandichamberlain[/QUOTE]

After thinking about the bolded- that must be yearly.

But I am still curious about the partial family aspect of it.

allisong23 · June 2012

Annie, I like you. Not because of which side you fall on for this argument, but because I think you express yourself well. Stick around.

adamar15 · June 2012

FFS, have we not figured out yet that this doesn't work?:

The health care legislation renews $50 million per year for five years for abstinence-only education. According to the Department of Health and Human Services, "programs that receive this funding must teach that abstinence from sexual activity is the only certain way to avoid out-of-wedlock pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, and other associated health problems." And they also have to teach that sex before marriage is "likely to have harmful psychological and physical effects." For every four federal dollars a state receives, it must match $3 (75% of the federal money, in other words).

annie912 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:e9eae544-d714-4520-b244-5ae23f69d74c">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : After thinking about the bolded- that must be yearly. But I am still curious about the partial family aspect of it.
Posted by brandichamberlain[/QUOTE]

That is a really good question. I don't know how often that would come up with people that have coverage through work, because generally if the employer offers insurance there is an option to cover spouse/children as well for an additional cost. I could see this being an issue, though, if both husband and wife were paying for insurance themselves, not covered by an employer plan, and one of them decided not to. My guess is that it would be based on joint income if they filed their taxes jointly and on his/her sole income if they filed separately, but I really don't know.

AllAboutTheBenjamin · June 2012

Lol. Guys I am having a blast at work right now. Some of the people I'm talking to think this is the best thing ever and others think that the country is going to swirl down the drain into a black vortex of doom. No middle ground at all. My job cracks the shitouttame.

annie912 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:a3f96ded-12d0-45d6-8bd9-b66d54d2071f">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]Lol. Guys I am having a blast at work right now. Some of the people I'm talking to think this is the best thing ever and others think that the country is going to swirl down the drain into a black vortex of doom. No middle ground at all. My job cracks the shitouttame.
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]

Try working in finance right now. I'm not going to relax until the markets close at 3 - the reaction still could go either way. I was trying to mentally prepare myself for a huge drop regardless of the final verdict.

brandichamberlain · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:a3f96ded-12d0-45d6-8bd9-b66d54d2071f">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]Lol. Guys I am having a blast at work right now. Some of the people I'm talking to think this is the best thing ever and others think that the country is going to swirl down the drain into a black vortex of doom. No middle ground at all. My job cracks the shitouttame.
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]

The only one of my bosses that cares at all is our General Counsel and he really only has a ton of opinions on the Con. law aspect of it so he pretty much lost me in our conversation. I don't think the others are even paying attention to it at all.

maratea · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:836e50d5-3861-4117-bd01-5c8d8f448a5b">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]FFS, have we not figured out yet that this doesn't work?: The health care legislation renews $50 million per year for five years for abstinence-only education. According to the Department of Health and Human Services, "programs that receive this funding must teach that abstinence from sexual activity is the only certain way to avoid out-of-wedlock pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, and other associated health problems." And they also have to teach that sex before marriage is "likely to have harmful psychological and physical effects." For every four federal dollars a state receives, it must match $3 (75% of the federal money, in other words).
Posted by adamar15[/QUOTE]
<a href="http://www.sodahead.com/entertainment/whos-the-biggest-breakout-star-of-2011/question-2342441/" rel="nofollow"> <img id="ibafSlideshowImg" src="http://alachuapolitix.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/no.gif" alt="" width="184" height="150" /> </a>

AllAboutTheBenjamin · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:7f7f7d01-4e3c-4cc9-ada6-d42551c5a538">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : Try working in finance right now. I'm not going to relax until the markets close at 3 - the reaction still could go either way. I was trying to mentally prepare myself for a huge drop regardless of the final verdict.
Posted by annie912[/QUOTE]

Haha oh man. Now I can't wait til I get our market report this afternoon. I'm sure those guys are flipping shits.

adamar15 · June 2012

Exactly, Mara. That's disgusting.

mica178 · June 2012

It's hard to tell if the drop in the market is from the SCOTUS ruling or from the Eurozone stuff, though, isn't it?

Blueyed228 · June 2012

Let me add this about how premiums are going to go up.

When Obamacare first passed, my premium went up $100 a month within the first 6 weeks.

annie912 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:19bf7684-da84-49c8-b2af-71a76ddcbfd1">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]It's hard to tell if the drop in the market is from the SCOTUS ruling or from the Eurozone stuff, though, isn't it?
Posted by mica178[/QUOTE]

Or it could just be from a butterfly flapping its wings in China. Yeah, there's really no way to tell what causes any of this stuff. I basically read tea leaves. But, any time there's something this emotionally charged, there's a potential for a lot of movement. People don't invest with their heads, they invest with their emotions/reactions. A "normal" decline would just be shrugged off as partially this, partially Europe. Anything big is going to be largely attributed to this, though, whether right or wrong. And this is one of those cases where there could easily be a bit of a domino effect - people see others selling and they start.

And this is in no way to be considered investment advice....

annie912 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:de37bf14-dee4-4a4c-bbf9-a0f35b9a89f6">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]Let me add this about how premiums are going to go up. When Obamacare first passed, my premium went up $100 a month within the first 6 weeks.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

While the timing is sure crummy, that probably had less to do with Obamacare than you think. Rates (and rate increases) are actually set pretty far in advance. They may have done it in anticipation of increased costs, but it may have been just a really poorly timed increase that would have happened anyway. Even though the plan passed, it hadn't gone into effect yet when your premiums went up.

musicalsunlight · June 2012

I'm fundamentally against the mandate and so I'm pretty surprised. And very disappointed. I work in a pretty liberal law office so this is awkward right now.

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