Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment

chelseamb11 · December 2011

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/19/missouri-boy-with-down-syndrome-suspended-for-sexually-harassing-bus-aide/?intcmp=obnetwork

CN: A 14 year old boy with DS (who is described as normally very affectionate) grabbed a female aide on the school bus and more or less air humped her based on the description. She decided to not press charges but the school still suspended him. His mom is outraged because he has no concept of what sexuality is and didn't know what he was doing. He has no idea why he was suspended.

While I undertstand what he did was wrong, I am leaning towards the side of his mom. Rather than suspend him, why not explain to him plainly why that was wrong and have a very toned down sex-talk with him? If he truly didn't know what he was doing, suspending him isn't going to properly punish him anyway. I'm not sure. I'm on the fence I guess.
WDYT?

annakb8 · December 2011

Sounds like it's his mom's fault he doesn't know this stuff is inappropriate behavior.

wawbrey · December 2011

Obviously not all situation are not cut from the same cloth, but I went to high school with a boy with Ds who was normally very pleasant. The exception was during PE. He would always chase the girls and try to hug on them and pinch areas of them. He would make inappropriate comments. Our school had talks with them about once a week, and it never ever stopped. It made most every girl in our school very uncomfortable, but our principals and teachers always treated us like we were making it up. They tended to turn a blind eye most of the time. I hope, for this kid's sake, that they have a real talk with him before it gets to that point. I really think suspension was a little harsh for a first time, but the kid from my school had parents who also refused to believe he would ever do anything I mentioned. :-/

LetsHikeToday · December 2011

The school needs to be careful. Students with disabilities can't be suspended if the act is caused my the disability. So if he didn't understand the concept because of his disability, they could be looking at a lawsuit.

One of my students with autism was caught selling drugs in middle school. The school had to go prove his disability had no part in selling drugs.

Edit: Sorry about my formatting. It looks weird on my computer and I can't change it.

jemmini6 · December 2011

My uncle had Down Syndrome, and there were a few times where we had to explain to him why he couldn't do certain things (not necessarily 'sexually' related, but just in general). Essentially, he was like a 4 year old, he'd see something on TV and recreate it until you explained to him that he shouldn't do that.

I think they are treating him like 14-year-old with the mental capacities of a 14-year-old, not someone with a disability. Obviously, they need to 'punish' him in some way to make sure he understands that what he did was inappropriate, but I think suspending him is a little far for a first offense.

LDYGTR13 · December 2011

You must be in the mood for a debate today, eh, Chels?

ETA: I was informed sometimes I come off as "snarky" - this should be followed by this:

whitsy · December 2011

There's probably a zero tolerance policy in place for sexual misconduct, and I don't know that it applies to students with Down's Syndrome (because of what LetsHike said), but they're probably just following procedure at this point. It's such a slippery slope trying to prove that a student didn't understand their actions because of a disability. I wouldn't want to have to make the decision that the school did.

strlzfan11 · December 2011

Any student who has an IEP has to have a meeting (although for the life of me I can't remember the actual name of the meeting) before the student can be suspended. The team (including the parent and the student given his age) has to determine the correct disciplinary action. The school can't just suspend the student. It's against the law.

Mrs.B6302007 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_boy-down-syndrome-suspended-sexual-harassment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:1e6dbd98-6cd5-49bd-85eb-ab4b1a033759Post:0995fa0d-79ae-447e-af97-8a7ae900be6a">Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment</a>:
[QUOTE]There's probably a zero tolerance policy in place for sexual misconduct, and I don't know that it applies to students with Down's Syndrome (because of what LetsHike said), but they're probably just following procedure at this point. It's such a slippery slope trying to prove that a student didn't understand their actions because of a disability. I wouldn't want to have to make the decision that the school did.
Posted by whitsy[/QUOTE]

This is what I was going to say. They most likely have to cover themselves by procedure.The woman can go to the board if something isn't done yet the boy's family might be able to do the same becaue of his disability. It looks like a situation of damned if they do, damned if they don't.

ETA: corrected because it wasn't a girl but a woman

DodgersBride · December 2011

My step-dad's brother has down syndrome or some sort of disability I don't know the correct term and he fully knows what he is doing. he has said some pretty colorful things about sex and sexual activities that lead me to believe he knows what he talking about. We all explain to him what he says is inappropriate and that he should not say things like. I think most people treat people with disabilities as if they don't understand anything and that they don't pick up on what others say and do in front of them that isn't always appropriate.

whitsy · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_boy-down-syndrome-suspended-sexual-harassment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:1e6dbd98-6cd5-49bd-85eb-ab4b1a033759Post:1ff75ce1-9fc8-48e5-909a-5bc145f74618">Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment</a>:
[QUOTE]Any student who has an IEP has to have a meeting (although for the life of me I can't remember the actual name of the meeting) before the student can be suspended. The team (including the parent and the student given his age) has to determine the correct disciplinary action. The school can't just suspend the student. It's against the law.
Posted by strlzfan11[/QUOTE]

The article doesn't say, but I'm really betting there was a meeting. Schools are SO careful to not break any of the laws surrounding disabilities. MrsB can probably back me up on this, but I have students in two of my classes with IEPs and 504s, and I am very careful to make sure I follow procedure for meeting their plans.

I also completely disagree with the mother saying the teachers and administrators are not educating on students with disabilities. I have taken four classes under the SPED category, and my Master's requires two more.

Edit: Not back me up that I am careful, but just that schools and educators in general are careful.

chelseamb11 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_boy-down-syndrome-suspended-sexual-harassment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:1e6dbd98-6cd5-49bd-85eb-ab4b1a033759Post:3de2e303-3d91-428e-9dc7-8d6264cc014b">Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment</a>:
[QUOTE]You must be in the mood for a debate today, eh, Chels? ETA: I was informed sometimes I come off as "snarky" - this should be followed by this:
Posted by LDYGTR13[/QUOTE]
Whatever Snarky McSnarkerson.
<img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-tongue-out.gif" border="0" alt="Tongue out" title="Tongue out" />

But yeah, I don't mind a good debate. I went home from work to relax all day and try and kick this cold in the ass.

DodgersBride · December 2011

The article mentions that the student doesn't know why he can't go to school. I don't understand why the mother would not explain to him that what he did was inappropriate and wrong even if he doesn't know what he was doing was sexual. I wonder what his reaction was when the aide started screaming and asking for help. I would think with that reaction he would have some sort of understanding that what he did was wrong.

Mrs.B6302007 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_boy-down-syndrome-suspended-sexual-harassment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:1e6dbd98-6cd5-49bd-85eb-ab4b1a033759Post:326234f0-f642-49ce-9310-7541ed4f5ac5">Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : The article doesn't say, but I'm really betting there was a meeting. Schools are SO careful to not break any of the laws surrounding disabilities. MrsB can probably back me up on this, but I have students in two of my classes with IEPs and 504s, and I am very careful to make sure I follow procedure for meeting their plans. I also completely disagree with the mother saying the teachers and administrators are not educating on students with disabilities. I have taken four classes under the SPED category, and my Master's requires two more. Edit: Not back me up that I am careful, but just that schools and educators in general are careful.
Posted by whitsy[/QUOTE]

Consider yourself backed. <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /> My last year in MS I had 18 kids on IEPs and I kept a detailed folder on each one of them with parental contact (signed academic weekly reports, emails, phonecalls, etc) academic info and behavior as needed. My ESE coordinator loved me. ;-)

That jumped out at me, too, Whitsy. I thought that the statement The teachers and the administrators are not educated on children with developmental disabilities and they don't want to be educated on them," she said. "All they want to do is push them out of their doors." was very unfair of her to make.

Mrs.B6302007 · December 2011

I'm also a bit confused by the fact that the aide said that she isn't going to press charges yet the mom is worried about prosecution? FTR, I don't know if I would let my child's photograph be taken and published in the paper and all over the web.

strlzfan11 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_boy-down-syndrome-suspended-sexual-harassment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:1e6dbd98-6cd5-49bd-85eb-ab4b1a033759Post:7bba0a51-2c95-4816-bd7f-e2a3a9e7074d">Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : I thought that the statement The teachers and the administrators are not educated on children with developmental disabilities and they don't want to be educated on them," she said. "All they want to do is push them out of their doors." was very unfair of her to make.
Posted by Mrs.B6302007[/QUOTE]

I agree. That is pushing it too far.

chelseamb11 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_boy-down-syndrome-suspended-sexual-harassment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:1e6dbd98-6cd5-49bd-85eb-ab4b1a033759Post:7bba0a51-2c95-4816-bd7f-e2a3a9e7074d">Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : Consider yourself backed. My last year in MS I had 18 kids on IEPs and I kept a detailed folder on each one of them with parental contact (signed academic weekly reports, emails, phonecalls, etc) academic info and behavior as needed. My ESE coordinator loved me. ;-) That jumped out at me, too, Whitsy. I thought that the statement The teachers and the administrators are not educated on children with developmental disabilities and they don't want to be educated on them," she said. "All they want to do is push them out of their doors." was very unfair of her to make.
Posted by Mrs.B6302007[/QUOTE]

Agreed. It was unfair of her to say that because it's too much of an assumption. It's true in a lot of cases but there's nothing backing it up in this case.

I still think suspension was a little overboard. It's not like it's a repeat occurence. I see nothing wrong with them talking to him about this incident. IF it were to happen again, then I can see a suspension being appropriate.

whitsy · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_boy-down-syndrome-suspended-sexual-harassment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:1e6dbd98-6cd5-49bd-85eb-ab4b1a033759Post:7bba0a51-2c95-4816-bd7f-e2a3a9e7074d">Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : Consider yourself backed. My last year in MS I had 18 kids on IEPs and I kept a detailed folder on each one of them with parental contact (signed academic weekly reports, emails, phonecalls, etc) academic info and behavior as needed. My ESE coordinator loved me. ;-) That jumped out at me, too, Whitsy. I thought that the statement The teachers and the administrators are not educated on children with developmental disabilities and they don't want to be educated on them," she said. "All they want to do is push them out of their doors." was very unfair of her to make.
Posted by Mrs.B6302007[/QUOTE]

I bet! I keep folders too, I only had 15 last year, but this year I am up to 27. It's a lot to remember, but I have three aides who are SO helpful.

Mrs.B6302007 · December 2011

Dude, you have aides? Lucky!

whitsy · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_boy-down-syndrome-suspended-sexual-harassment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:1e6dbd98-6cd5-49bd-85eb-ab4b1a033759Post:461f3aa2-ca96-409a-9a35-9b270795a19c">Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : Agreed. It was unfair of her to say that because it's too much of an assumption. It's true in a lot of cases but there's nothing backing it up in this case. I still think suspension was a little overboard. It's not like it's a repeat occurence. I see nothing wrong with them talking to him about this incident. IF it were to happen again, then I can see a suspension being appropriate.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

I disagree Chelsea, and I'm surprised you think that. I can't think of any teachers that have graduated in at least the last ten years that haven't received SPED training. Maybe course requirements are different in other states, but I graduated with a pretty decent background knowledge of SPED.

whitsy · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_boy-down-syndrome-suspended-sexual-harassment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:1e6dbd98-6cd5-49bd-85eb-ab4b1a033759Post:fcaef0b8-fff1-4531-be7a-381d6af83ca6">Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment</a>:
[QUOTE]Dude, you have aides? Lucky!
Posted by Mrs.B6302007[/QUOTE]

Yes! I love them so much. They are so helpful.

jemmini6 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_boy-down-syndrome-suspended-sexual-harassment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:1e6dbd98-6cd5-49bd-85eb-ab4b1a033759Post:b8c7806d-46f1-4297-972c-bbf4e1e99284">Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment</a>:
[QUOTE]The article mentions that the student doesn't know why he can't go to school. I don't understand why the mother would not explain to him that what he did was inappropriate and wrong even if he doesn't know what he was doing was sexual. I wonder what his reaction was when the aide started screaming and asking for help. I would think with that reaction he would have some sort of understanding that what he did was wrong.
Posted by DodgersBride[/QUOTE]

It sounds like you haven't met anyone with DS. Like I said, my uncle was at about age 3 - 5 (depending on the subject) for his level of understanding. You think that if you just start yelling at a 4 year old that they'll understand what they did wrong. I mean, I'm sure they understand something is wrong, but not exactly what speicific action it was or why it was wrong.

Basically, I think a talk with the parents, student and administration is required to explain to him what he did that was wrong and why it was wrong, but suspending him isn't going to help the situation.

chelseamb11 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_boy-down-syndrome-suspended-sexual-harassment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:1e6dbd98-6cd5-49bd-85eb-ab4b1a033759Post:4d2b80eb-1bc8-4190-83fe-576b0ddc0a0e">Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : I disagree Chelsea, and I'm surprised you think that. I can't think of any teachers that have graduated in at least the last ten years that haven't received SPED training. Maybe course requirements are different in other states, but I graduated with a pretty decent background knowledge of SPED.
Posted by whitsy[/QUOTE]

I agree everyone gets the training, but you can't tell me there aren't schools/districts/teachers out there that are too prejudiced or lazy to help kids with disabilities. "A lot" might have been a strech, but I doubt that I never happens either.

DodgersBride · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_boy-down-syndrome-suspended-sexual-harassment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:1e6dbd98-6cd5-49bd-85eb-ab4b1a033759Post:85a7154b-3ff6-4e9b-988c-841a05fcfc22">Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : It sounds like you haven't met anyone with DS. Like I said, my uncle was at about age 3 - 5 (depending on the subject) for his level of understanding. You think that if you just start yelling at a 4 year old that they'll understand what they did wrong. I mean, I'm sure they understand something is wrong, but not exactly what speicific action it was or why it was wrong. Basically, I think a talk with the parents, student and administration is required to explain to him what he did that was wrong and why it was wrong, but suspending him isn't going to help the situation.
Posted by jemmini6[/QUOTE]

Like I said in my first post I do know someone with DS and deal with them daily. No where did I say yelling at them would make them understand. If a 3-5 child did something wrong that had a reaction like that of the aide I am sure they would know what they just did was wrong or hurtful. If they don't then the parent should explain to the child or person with DS in this case why the person reacted the way they did and why is was wrong and not to do it again. I know it is easier said than done but I would at least try and it seems as though the mother isn't doing that and just wants to point the blame at the school.

I feel as thought now a days parents feel the need for teachers and school staff should do the job of the parent too often. I do think that the student should be explained why he can't go to school and what he did was wrong but I feel his mother should do it first followed by the school. I believe the mother said in the article that the school staff doesn't know how to deal with someone with DS so why would she want the school to handle it with her son and not her.

whitsy · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_boy-down-syndrome-suspended-sexual-harassment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:1e6dbd98-6cd5-49bd-85eb-ab4b1a033759Post:cdc51d68-32c5-4713-a8b9-bd2ea05dab8b">Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : I agree everyone gets the training, but you can't tell me there aren't schools/districts/teachers out there that are too prejudiced or lazy to help kids with disabilities. "A lot" might have been a strech, but I doubt that I never happens either.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

No, I never said that it doesn't happen. Maybe I'm just too naive, but I really honestly believe that with all the laws and regulations that educators aren't careful about following the rules. The consequences are too severe not to follow them.

chelseamb11 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_boy-down-syndrome-suspended-sexual-harassment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:1e6dbd98-6cd5-49bd-85eb-ab4b1a033759Post:ee359433-cb7e-4a73-9ebc-f4bf8bd671e1">Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : No, I never said that it doesn't happen. Maybe I'm just too naive, but I really honestly believe that with all the laws and regulations that educators aren't careful about following the rules. The consequences are too severe not to follow them.
Posted by whitsy[/QUOTE]

True. I also feel like anyone asshole enough to not follow them will try to find a way around them.

FutureMrsTR · December 2011

Maybe I'm going to sound like an asshole, but I think it's appropriate for him to be punished. We punish children while simultaneously explaining what they did wrong all the time. I admittedly didn't read the article so i don't know how long the suspension was for, but a one day suspension doesn't sem so awful.

chelseamb11 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_boy-down-syndrome-suspended-sexual-harassment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:1e6dbd98-6cd5-49bd-85eb-ab4b1a033759Post:c61911b5-0cfc-4722-99b8-bd6215e21c28">Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment</a>:
[QUOTE]Maybe I'm going to sound like an asshole, but I think it's appropriate for him to be punished. We punish children while simultaneously explaining what they did wrong all the time. I admittedly didn't read the article so i don't know how long the suspension was for, but a one day suspension doesn't sem so awful.
Posted by FutureMrsTR[/QUOTE]

It lasts thru January 5th.

FutureMrsTR · December 2011

That suspension is too long IMO. But to say he shouldn't be punished because he disn't know what he did was wrong? Isn't getting punished how most kids learn that something is wrong in the first place?

LetsHikeToday · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_boy-down-syndrome-suspended-sexual-harassment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:1e6dbd98-6cd5-49bd-85eb-ab4b1a033759Post:ee359433-cb7e-4a73-9ebc-f4bf8bd671e1">Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : No, I never said that it doesn't happen. Maybe I'm just too naive, but I really honestly believe that with all the laws and regulations that educators aren't careful about following the rules. The consequences are too severe not to follow them.
Posted by whitsy[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. I think teachers mostly meet expectations and want to help educated kiddos with special needs. Those who don't are in the minority, in my opinion.

divinemsbee · December 2011

So, I don't know a lot about DS, but it seems like there may be different levels of functionality (let me know if I'm wrong); like some people with it may have the metal capacity of a 4 or 5 year old, but some may progress further. I think PPs who are saying that it is the mother's responsibility to educate the child on what he did wrong and why he isn't at school are totally right. It's her responsibility, and it's also her responsibility that he doesn't know what sex is or what can be seen as sexually inappropriate. If he's attending any part of his schooling at a "regular" school, or even watching T.V. or spending time on the internet unsupervised then he's going to hear about sex and see inappropriate things, and it's any parent's job to teach their kid about that.

I will say this, having a developmental or learning disability does nothing to prevent someone from being a jerk or an asshole or an abuser. While I think that it is important to look into why someone is behaving in a manner and if it is related to the disability (as Hike said about selling drugs earlier), I think it does a disservice to portray all people with disabilities as unable to help what happens or what they do, to a degree.

While not DS, my FI has a friend with diagnosed Asperger's Syndrome. He is also a total diick. He acknowledges that he uses his diagnosis in order to behave the way he sees fit without getting as much flack for it. I think that's horrible, no matter what. No that I know that a kid with DS would have that kind of thought process, but just throwing it out there.

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