Bad sign?

Calypso1977 · December 2010

do you think its a bad sign if a couple cant agree on a wedding budget? not as a bad sign for the wedding, but rather a bad sign for the entire financial piece of the marriage?

mica178 · December 2010

Can't agree, like they just started planning and came to the table with different ideas? Or can't agree because they agreed on a certain amount and then one partner keeps on making adjustments to the budget without consulting the other?

opalsky007 · December 2010

No, not in general. People have different priorities. I'd take it as a bad sign if they weren't able to have a grown-up discussion about it and decide who was willing to sacrifice what in order to compromise.

laurenclaire1386 · December 2010

Without further information, I interpret a disagreement on a wedding budget as having different financial priorities, which is definitely detrimental to a marriage. So in a word, yes, barring any further information.

ootmother2 · December 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bad-sign?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5f6dffaf-9ce9-45e8-8fa8-f5ac0e6c6b79Post:8f57d431-7fe2-4a73-8d8e-8cbcd41dcf17">Re: Bad sign?</a>:
[QUOTE]Can't agree, like they just started planning and came to the table with different ideas? Or can't agree because they agreed on a certain amount and then one partner keeps on making adjustments to the budget without consulting the other?
Posted by mica178[/QUOTE]

ditto

that's too vague to answer. What are the circomstances here?

Stackeye210 · December 2010

It would depend:

Do they both understand what is involved in the wedding planning process? Have they both done research to come up with their budget? Their visions could be completely different too, which could change their outlook on budget, but not their knowledge on the value of a dollar.

Also....are both budgets in a healthy range for the pocketbook and not going in debt?

People view dollar amounts so differently, and what you should be able to get for that dollar. It's how you talk about the money and differences of opinions that says whether you'll always have financial disagreements or not.

LisaChris2011 · December 2010

In my opinion, yes, in some ways it is as agreeing together on the financial front is so important in a marriage. I would go with the lower number being proposed for the wedding budget, as you don't want to be in debt when starting off your marriage (unless parents are paying of course).

emilyinchile · December 2010

Yeah, I think it depends what degree of disagreement we're talking.

If it's a question of one wants to spend more because (s)he sees the wedding as a worthwhile investment and the other sees it as an excessive expense, and they compromise but still think they're each in the right - like ok, I agree we'll spend $10k, but I'm not going to tell you I love the idea because I think $5k was plenty - then fine

If it's a question of they literally never come to an agreement, so there are constant "you're being stingy" "no, you're spending too much" arguments, that's a problem to me. Not so much because they disagree about how much to spend on a particular thing but because I think part of being a grown-up couple is having that talk and coming to an agreement and sticking to it.

Calypso1977 · December 2010

i know a couple who appears to be in deadlock. one wants to spend on the low end ($5-$10K) and the other wants to do the $30K shebang. as a result, their plannign is going no where and they dont have a date set. they could actually afford the $30K, but the more fiscally responsible one doenst see it as an investment.

ootmother2 · December 2010

If they can afford it, I don't think it should be a dealbreaker. No debt involved, of course.

If this couple is in your area, that's not an outragous price for a wedding.

They should reasonably discuss this together anyhow

emilyinchile · December 2010

I don't think that's necessarily a bad sign since they're not moving forward. I do think that they need to figure it out if they ever actually want to get married though - why can't they just agree on $15-20k and call it even?

Stackeye210 · December 2010

That's a pretty big budget difference. If I were one of the people in that situation I'd set appointments to have them both get out and looking at venues so they could both see where their money would get them (at both levels)

LisaChris2011 · December 2010

Hopefully they can meet in the middle somewhere. I agree to an extent that a wedding doesn't exactly have a ROI, and that money could go towards upgrading the home, etc. (which does have an actual qualitative investment) but then again you only get married once (hopefuly).

Loopyseven · December 2010

An investment is something you get a return on, not a party for 6 hours. The person with the low end budget needs to not think of this as an investment.

I'd suggest they each put together their "vision" of what they want to/can do with their respective budgets. Then they can see if the person on the low end has unrealistic expectations for what kind of a wedding they can have for $5K. Maybe then they can go through a more itemized list of what the $ will be spent on. If they work the budget differences on a case by case basis maybe they can end up somewhere in the middle. Person at $5K budget adds cost of open bar to his tab, person with $30K budget takes out the chocolate fountain and candy bar...

Now if one person wants to do a barbeque on Aunt Sally's farm, and the other wants a catered dinner at the country club, they need to come to an agreement on the style and level of reception they want to have and form the budget around that.

Calypso1977 · December 2010

yes, they are in this area - but the "cheap" one (for lack of better definition!) saw how little we did ours for, so he knows its possible. but the bride of course has her "vision" and wants all of the bells and whistles. its my understranding they wouldt go into debt, btu they'd wipe out substantial savings.

its their issue to work out, and not my business, i just hope that it doenst break them up or cause them greater problems later. they are both really stressed right now over it. just doesnt seem worth it.

strlzfan11 · December 2010

That's a pretty big difference. How many people are they planning on inviting? That number alone plays a huge factor in figuring out the budget IMO. Is this something they are disagreeing about as well?

Calypso1977 · December 2010

not sure, but i want to say 140 ish? but around here, most typical venues are $100+ per plate and they want $2-4k for room rental.

strlzfan11 · December 2010

I don't exactly view a wedding as an investment in terms of getting a quantitative return (financial gain), but more as a qualitative return (touchy feeliness).

I would suggest that the bridge & groom sit down and look at a typical line-item wedding budget and have each decide what the three most important things on that list are to them (dress, music, etc.). Then they should actually plug their wish list overall expenditure into so that they can realistically see how the budgeting process actually works.

MattsPenguin · December 2010

Are they splitting the costs? For us, I am footing the bill (along with some help from my parents). My FI is not putting in any money, aside from the ring and splitting the honeymoon.

What I mean is, if it's her money and he's okay with having the party (but not giving his money), then I can see where the bride has some ground to stand on. However I think this may be a place where compromise is needed and the suggestions of the PP to go and look what $XX gets you. (Kind of like that house show "What you get for the money). But I digress.

LisaChris2011 · December 2010

"its my understranding they wouldt go into debt, btu they'd wipe out substantial savings." The latter can be just as detrimental as being in debt. What if someone were to get sick, or lose their job, etc.? Heaven forbid, I know we don't like to imagine those scenarios, but that's what adults have to consider when marrying (unfortunately). If you are close to the bride, and she is asking for advice, I would tell her to look at the big picture.

marissa_claire · December 2010

That is a huge difference. I can also see where it might cause problems, because he might be saying "hey we could use that extra $15k towards a down payment" while she's saying "it' MY day." I obviously don't know them, but that's a hypothetical that would imply future problems.

I personally think in their boat I would go ahead and decide on food and venue and try to keep everything else reasonable. Since food and venue tend to be a bulk of the budget, I just think that might be a good starting point.

I do think that rather than having a moratorium on wedding stuff, they should be exploring options to see what they like and dislike before they decide it's too expensive or not what they dreamed of.

Beachy730 · December 2010

H and I had very different views on our wedding budget. He would have been perfectly content going to the JOP then doing a beer-b-q in the backyard. He didn't want to go in debt, but I also wanted to have the big wedding. My parents offered us a huge contribution to the wedding which helped him a lot, but we would still disagree on certain things. He though chair covers were the biggest waste of money, but my mom and I wanted them, so she paid for them. It ended up being H and my dad against my mom and I on a lot of things. But it all worked out. We saved money where we could and we didn't go into any debt from the wedding. At the end of the night my dad and H both said it was worth every penny we spent so that was great to hear.

I don't think its a bad sign, I just think they have very different views on what the wedding should be. I don't know many guys who think they should spend more than they would on a car for one day. Its all about coming to an agreement somewhere, and respecting each other's wishes.

wrdgirl · December 2010

Nope, in fact I think it's a good sign because disagreements show that each has their own opinions and are willing to lay them out on the table. However, it will be bad if none of the sides want to compromise.

nontradduo · December 2010

Sounds like the same issue my FI and I had originally.
He didn't want to spend more than about 5K and I believed a 15K wedding for about a 150 people wasn't excessive by the time we actually added up it all up.
We had very different style ideas and pictures about what a "nice" wedding included.
We had to really sit down and speak to what individual items meant to us, why they were important & in what context, why we felt how we did about the finances and what was the driving force behind them.
Once we did that, it was a matter of both of us compromising on different points...some were painful, some not so much. We discussed our budget and compromised on 12K (5K of which is coming from my parents, including the rehearsal dinner).
But in the end, I did have to tell him that since I was the one truly footing the bill for the wedding, with the help of my parents, that my say was final on all things, especially where we couldn't come to a compromise.
He didn't like that one bit, but I explained that until we were married, my money was mine, not ours. And unless he wanted to contribute equally, he had less say on how we spent my money. He know that status of the budget (which I'm very good at & in fact we're under budget), and I always ask for his opinions on things and invite conversation about the planning. He knows he'll have all the say on his wedding band, and we've certainly had a few tiffs about certain items where I used the "final say" rule I negotiated at the beginning the wedding planning. But all in all, the ground work we laid has kept us on track with planning and more importantly, happy with our relationship and where it's headed.

rjtutter · December 2010

I think it's perfectly fine that before any discussions they didn't agree on a wedding budget. That being said, I don't think it's a good sign if they can't come to an agreement, or if once they reach an agreement, one breaks it. I absolutely hate all the wedding shows where one person goes out and blows the budget behind the back of the more fiscally conservative partner. It frustrates me and it makes me fear for their future!

(Not to compare your friends to drama-queens on reality TV. That is just the worst case scenario that definitely indicates a red flag)

Calypso1977 · December 2010

He didn't like that one bit, but I explained that until we were married, my money was mine, not ours. And unless he wanted to contribute equally, he had less say on how we spent my money.

i guess i somewhat disagree with this thought process. yes, its your money, but since you are entering into marriage, that's money that could be spent elsewhere for the benefit of the couple. money that, say, might make a difference between getting a mortgage with PMI versus a mortgage without PMI, or paying off a student loan that would save the couple years of interest.

redheadfsu · December 2010

I don't think it is a bad sign. It is much better than setting a budget & the bride going over. Sounds like they have good communication (each knows what the other wants.) It is only a bad thing if they can't work it out.

waitingformay · December 2010

We had some issues with this too that are now resolved. We had to start looking around to find out what things cost and then set our budget based on what we have and what we want. He had an initial sticker shock just because he didn't realize what things cost. We solved this by doing research and comparing to find out what is the average for different things that we wanted. Once we were able to see what we were getting for our money and had prices to compare with it made things a lot easier. I think doing some research together would help.

jerseydevil · December 2010

It all depends on how they discuss and handle it. As long as they can have an adult conversation, come to a compromise and be open about who spends how much on what then, no I don't think it's a bad sign.

DanielleZZ · December 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bad-sign?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5f6dffaf-9ce9-45e8-8fa8-f5ac0e6c6b79Post:3cb0ffa4-c6b2-4913-b25d-00da9eb34429">Re: Bad sign?</a>:
[QUOTE]No, not in general. People have different priorities. I'd take it as a bad sign if they weren't able to have a grown-up discussion about it and decide who was willing to sacrifice what in order to compromise.
Posted by opalsky007[/QUOTE]

This.

nontradduo · December 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_bad-sign?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5f6dffaf-9ce9-45e8-8fa8-f5ac0e6c6b79Post:33c872bf-853e-4283-a6cf-7874fc4c2faf">Re: Bad sign?</a>:
[QUOTE]i guess i somewhat disagree with this thought process. yes, its your money, but since you are entering into marriage, that's money that could be spent elsewhere for the benefit of the couple. money that, say, might make a difference between getting a mortgage with PMI versus a mortgage without PMI, or paying off a student loan that would save the couple years of interest.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

Calypso, I understand your point but find it utterly illogical. Legally, neither individual has a right to either person's money until marriage, and then only if there is no pre-nuptial agreement with differing terms. A couple's financial future is only theirs once the money is legally bound. (I am speaking in only the most general legal terms here)
And coincidentally, you are assuming that neither I nor my FI already own a home and that we have student loan debt, etc. We both own homes, he'll be renting his and we'll live in mine. He has no student loans, and I have very little (I had a scholarship that covered most of my undergrad degree and my company has paid for both my Master's degrees). My FI and I are both financially stable and prepared. He didn't want to contribute to the wedding if he couldn't have it exactly his financial way. So the negotiation was that I would assume financial responsibility for the wedding, thereby granting me the final say on all things since it was, in fact, my money being spent for <em>our </em>wedding. He took on other financial responsibilities which grants him final say in our agreement...until we are legally married that is.
And also coincidentally, I wasn't advising you or anyone else to follow suit- merely illustrating how we managed our similar issue.

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