Healthcare Mandate

LetsHikeToday · June 2012

WTF cnn? Really?

Smash Adams · June 2012

Adamar, the first thing the CJ said was that it failed under the Commerce Clause and CNN blew their load too quickly and took it to mean that the mandate failed. They were dumb.

From the opinion: "Our precedent demonstrates that Congress had the power to impose the exaction in Section 5000A under the taxing power, and that Section 5000A need not be read to do more than impose a tax. This is sufficient to sustain it."

LetsHikeToday · June 2012

CNN now has the "correction". Whoever made that mistake is going to be in trouble!

roseofdeborah · June 2012

Way to go CNN for false hopes. I guess we will see how that pans out.

adamar15 · June 2012

CNN wins early ejaculator of the year.

adamar15 · June 2012

From the blog: The court reinforces that individuals can simply refuse to pay the tax and not comply with the mandate.

Forgive me if I'm ignorant, but how does that work? Wouldn't that kind of thing be taken out of your paycheck like SS and whatnot?

Smash Adams · June 2012

Adamar, from what I remember, it's a tax that one pays only if they don't carry health insurance, so I dont' think it's something that would be taken out of your paycheck. So it would be the same as refusing to pay any other tax, and there would be penalties for that. I think.

adamar15 · June 2012

Nevermind they just said you CAN'T refuse to pay the tax.

maratea · June 2012

Wouldn't that be like tax evasion or conscientious objection?

ETA: NM. I mostly just want to say, "The shitt is this fucck???" I hate our government so much.

Starmusica · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:1bf9dde4-f344-42d5-b0d9-83f60740f685">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : Yes, I get that. But you don't have to get insurance just through your employer. I was thinking about it like this: I pay insurance for years, get sick, I have coverage - so it's been like a medical savings account, if you will. Same person decides not to carry insurance, gets sick, and then they decide that they need insurance coverage and should get the same coverage that I've been paying for? Doesn't make sense. And if you get a major illness, wouldn't medicaid kick in at some point? On the other hand, I totally get what Shay & Bay are saying. My dad takes about 24 pills every day from his lung transplant. Without medicare, I can't imagine what the bills would be.
Posted by jcbsjr[/QUOTE]

do you know how much it is without a job? when my husband was laid off... Cobra was 800 a month. Most people cannot afford that. Should the poor be left without healthcare?!

shaydenise · June 2012

Adamar, I was wondering the same thing.

I take from the way Smash explained it, then refusing to pay the tax would basically give them a greater penalty for refusing to pay taxes, correct?

adamar15 · June 2012

Shay, they came back and said that was a type and you can't refuse to pay the tax. According to the blog, "The only effect of not complying with the mandate is that you pay the tax."

Starmusica · June 2012

ok I haven't read it yet but it looks like the majority says the mandate is allowable under the tax and spending power because it generates some sort of revenue for the federal govt.

I am rusty on my con law- any other law geeks out there remember the applicable T&S tests?

A concurrent (though not controlling) opinion by Ginsburg went as far as to say the mandate was also allowable under the commerce clause.

This is SUCH a good case from a law school perspective.

I think I need to read the whole thing but my initial reaction is that this finding actually makes sense under our exisitng understanding of the T&S clause.

dmiller9274 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:f8a5a57e-2cce-4c38-8860-b3bd5c42e23c">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]Wouldn't that be like tax evasion or conscientious objection? ETA: <strong>NM. I mostly just want to say, "The shitt is this fucck???" I hate our government so much</strong>.
Posted by maratea[/QUOTE]
yeah, pretty much this. I'm pretty disappointed.

shaydenise · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:9b0931bd-ac5e-4cd7-bacb-c40376235818">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]Shay, they came back and said that was a type and you can't refuse to pay the tax. According to the blog, "The only effect of not complying with the mandate is that you pay the tax."
Posted by adamar15[/QUOTE]

<div>ah okay, gotcha.</div>

egeurts · June 2012

YAY!!! This means that when I get married in 2 days I can still afford my $28 a day to keep me alive.

dmiller9274 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:70fdbea9-4486-4379-9d5b-384576ef550a">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : do you know how much it is without a job? when my husband was laid off... Cobra was 800 a month. Most people cannot afford that. Should the poor be left without healthcare?!
Posted by Starmusica[/QUOTE]
I think this varies based on location. I know a lot of people who've actually gone out and purchased their own individual health coverage plan because it was cheaper/better than what their company offered. Cobra is notoriously expensive, but that isn't the only option available. (keep in mind...I've already mentioned I'm ok with the pre-existing condition clause in the ACA)

AllAboutTheBenjamin · June 2012

I don't think it's that big of a deal for CNN personally. This stuff happens all the time no matter what the subject matter. They corrected it as soon as they got theirshit straight which is what any newsroom would do. It's a complicated ruling so I'm not that surprised not everyone was getting it right away.

I'm having the busiest morning ever. I'm calling literally everyone in ND for reactions. FUN FUN FUN!

annie912 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:afa0249d-b57a-46c1-a9cd-b04fd46c3d38">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : I think this varies based on location. I know a lot of people who've actually gone out and purchased their own individual health coverage plan because it was cheaper/better than what their company offered. Cobra is notoriously expensive, but that isn't the only option available. (keep in mind...I've already mentioned I'm ok with the pre-existing condition clause in the ACA)
Posted by dmiller9274[/QUOTE]

The cost of COBRA depends on the insurance plan you had with the employer. It is not a different type of insurance. COBRA gives you the option to continue coverage under the employer's plan for the total cost plus an administrative fee (which I believe is around 2%). Most people with coverage through work don't pay the entire amount of their premium - the employer usually pays a good chunk. In my case, I pay about 30% and my employer pays the other 70%. If I get laid off, I can keep my coverage for a period of time but I have to pay what I was paying AND what the employer was paying, plus the adminstrative fee. So, it doesn't matter where you live - it's dependent on what the employer plan is.

allisong23 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:1bf9dde4-f344-42d5-b0d9-83f60740f685">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : Yes, I get that. But you don't have to get insurance just through your employer. I was thinking about it like this: I pay insurance for years, get sick, I have coverage - so it's been like a medical savings account, if you will. Same person decides not to carry insurance, gets sick, and then they decide that they need insurance coverage and should get the same coverage that I've been paying for? Doesn't make sense.<strong> And if you get a major illness, wouldn't medicaid kick in at some point?</strong> On the other hand, I totally get what Shay & Bay are saying. My dad takes about 24 pills every day from his lung transplant. Without medicare, I can't imagine what the bills would be.
Posted by jcbsjr[/QUOTE]

You are not eligible for Medicaid until your assets (not including your house, I think) are less than $3000. We just went through this with my grandmother. So you really have to be destitute.

As someone with a major pre-exisiting condition (MS) as well as several not as serious ones, II am so glad this passed. If I lived anywhere else than MA, I could not get health insurance. You shouldn't hav eto be rich to have access to health catre.

maratea · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:f875ccdf-b9fc-468d-bc8e-8b4fb353680f">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : <strong>You shouldn't haveto be rich to have access to health catre.</strong>
Posted by allisong23[/QUOTE]
I agree but you also shouldn't be punished if you don't want to purchase insurance. AND. Everyone still has access to <em>healthcare</em>. An ER cannot turn you away. That doesn't mean that everyone should be forced to have<em> insurance</em> or be penalized.

chelseamb11 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:79dab5f1-1ddf-431f-bdc7-fca6c626e645">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm really disappointed and surprised.
Posted by djhar[/QUOTE]

Me too.
It makes me so angry that this went through today. I feel like people have really lost sight of the difference between "constitutional" and "what I want to happen".

cheeseandrice · June 2012

*sigh* health care =/= health insurance, alli.

allisong23 · June 2012

The ER is not the place for primary care. It is for emergencies. It costs much more for a visit to the ER for the flu than it does if you went to your PCP, and it takes time and resources away from true emergencies. People without insurance use the ER as primary care, and the lack of primary care has a negative impact on their health AND those of us with insurance wind up paying for it. That care isn't free. Just because the poor don't pay for it doesn't mean no one does. We do.

Starmusica · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:53f82196-1ba4-4f7f-9acd-868e96d0e693">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : yeah, pretty much this. I'm pretty disappointed.
Posted by dmiller9274[/QUOTE]

I know you guys won't see it this way but regardless of how you feel about the law I think this is a Victory for our court system. The law was passed. Clearly even a VERY conservative justice agreed that it was written in a way that it passes constitutional muster. The system works when you work within the system.

I don't think getting angry at the court is useful.

egeurts · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:781c7e6c-143b-43f3-9cac-fa173e26aa65">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : I agree but you also shouldn't be punished if you don't want to purchase insurance. AND.<strong> Everyone still has access to healthcare . An ER cannot turn you away.</strong> That doesn't mean that everyone should be forced to have insurance or be penalized.
Posted by maratea[/QUOTE]

<div>An ER doesn't provide longterm medication for preexisting conditions. It costs $900 a month to keep me alive- I have epilepsy- and there is no way I could afford insurance on my own. I'm in school, so I don't have an employer, the school's insurance wouldn't be able to cover my meds, and since I'm getting married in 2 days, if I weren't covered by Obamacare until I'm 26 under my parents I would be totally screwed. An ER wouldn't help at all. They'd be able to stabalize me in the event of a seizure (maybe), but not provide my meds. </div>

Starmusica · June 2012

haven't read through it yet. Here is the decision= http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf

pages 31 and 32 apparently explain the tax argument.

annie912 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:781c7e6c-143b-43f3-9cac-fa173e26aa65">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Healthcare Mandate : I agree but you also shouldn't be punished if you don't want to purchase insurance. AND. Everyone still has access to healthcare . An ER cannot turn you away. That doesn't mean that everyone should be forced to have insurance or be penalized.
Posted by maratea[/QUOTE]

If my premiums go up because the insurance companies are paying out more than they are bringing in, or what I pay for an MRI goes up because the hospital is trying to recoup what it lost on people treated at the ER who couldn't pay, I am in effect being penalized - and I'm still paying premiums.

Also, ER care, while obviously critical, isn't the same as having access to afforable prescrptions or other care - especially for someone with a chronic illness.

Don't get me wrong, I think this plan was seriously flawed, but the only way you can expand coverage is to expand the pool of insureds or raise the rates for those who currently have coverage. One way or another, we will all pay for it.

celticmyss · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:ed91b359-6ab0-4437-b953-e4109348d3d1">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]The ER is not the place for primary care. It is for emergencies. It costs much more for a visit to the ER for the flu than it does if you went to your PCP, and it takes time and resources away from true emergencies. People without insurance use the ER as primary care, and the lack of primary care has a negative impact on their health AND those of us with insurance wind up paying for it. That care isn't free. Just because the poor don't pay for it doesn't mean no one does. We do.
Posted by allisong23[/QUOTE]

<div>All of this. Plus, those without insurance are much less likely to deal with a treatable condition until it has deteriorated to the point where they need more extreme care. This costs everyone more money. </div>

allisong23 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_healthcare-mandate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b268a0fb-fba8-4eba-9ee0-b8ac2802bbebPost:e458319c-d83c-40c3-91f6-4eaaf86fc4e8">Re: Healthcare Mandate</a>:
[QUOTE]*sigh* health care =/= health insurance, alli.
Posted by Steph+J[/QUOTE]

*sigh* I didn't say it did, Steph.

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