Not Engaged Yet

Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions).

Recap on relationship status:  boyfriend and I have been together about 2.5 years, survived 7 month trans-Atlantic long distance relationship, and we live together.

 

So… about a month ago, boyfriend and I had a conversation that led me to believe we’d resolved some of our concerns about moving forward and that boyfriend and I would eventually one-day get married, after he graduates.

 

Boyfriend and I spoke again yesterday… and this is not the case. One of his biggest concerns is finances. We both tend to have more conservative financial views, but his are significantly more conservative than mine. I have student loan debt for my bachelor’s degree and some graduate-level work because I received little (= practically none) help with college, either for living expenses or for tuition, though I am now thankful to have a job that pays my tuition. He had more help than that, and he has no college loan debt and money saved for retirement already. I’m not in that boat (depressing fact:  I have ~ 46k in student loan debt—my brain is super expensive!). But I have zero balance on credit cards, don’t go crazy, save up, and wait until I can afford things. We tend to agree on a lot of financial behavior.

 

But, apparently, he expects me to forgo the occasional treat or fulfilling other dreams of mine (like getting a horse one day) until I have paid back ALL of my student loan debt. He also told me (though I’m not doing an exact quote here) that he wanted to “review my finances” in a few months to see if I was budgeting appropriately enough that he could consider marrying me. I’ve always been really open with my finances, but this seems to me to be rather extreme. And I'm hurt and offended.

 

I know finances are really important to him, and I understand that different financial views can destroy relationships. But at this point, I feel like he’s hurt ours because he just treated me like an accountant trying out a client (in a few months, submit all receipts for evaluation!). And I’m upset. It’s not like he’s NOT known about my student loan debt either; he’s known almost as long as we’ve been together. If he’s going to decide he can’t marry me because of my student loan debt… I’d rather him make this decision now than in another 8 months.  Or for him to have made the decision earlier since it's not like this is NEWS to him.

 

And I’m hurt. We just had a fabulous weekend together too, all the usual perks of our relationship:  laughter, cuddling, and enjoying each other's company.

 

 

And I just wanted some advice on how to handle this kind of request/information/news. I don't quite know how to articulate a question though... sorry. :(

EDIT:  I don't know why it made the font so small. I tried to figure it out, but I failed. Sorry!

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Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions).

  • Elle1036Elle1036 member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 25 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    I'm torn here.  One one hand, it's smart to make sure that your financial vision is in line with somebody else's before you commit to marrying them (and thus intertwining your financial futures).

    Onnn the other hand, I would be seriously offended if my FI said something like that to me.  "Let's review in a few months and see if you're budgeting correctly?"  Ummm, no.  A different approach to money isn't necessarily a "wrong" one as long as you aren't about to go bankrupt.  He's making it sound like an engagement is some sort of prize you'll get for following his rules.  Not ok.
  • becunning2becunning2 member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    Yeah, I'm torn too.  I understand how important finances are, but he's treating me like I'm incapable of budgeting.  And I AM.  And I AM more conservative than many people when it comes to finances. I have ZERO credit card debt, and I've created a healthy savings account that was an initial horse-expense trial (paying in monthly expected board costs) but will now be a student-teacher survival fund so I won't have to work so much when I'm student teaching.

    I feel like he's thinking I don't live within my means sometimes for stupid things...  like I refuse to buy eggs that don't come from cage free chickens. It's like a dollar more, and it's an ethical thing for me. But he's right that since I'm saving up money for my student teaching semester that I should give up some of the nicer things I get when grocery shopping, like fresh parmesan cheese. 

    I've valued his financial input and discussion through various financial conversations, but I'm really offended at this point.
  • edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_finances-boyfriends-relationships-long-grumpy-emotions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:4ca0bf3c-c9f5-4d39-9deb-6ed44c165e22Post:9377ad4e-99e2-4112-83e2-76e584e757b7">Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions).</a>:
    [QUOTE]I'm torn here.  One one hand, it's smart to make sure that your financial vision is in line with somebody else's before you commit to marrying them (and thus intertwining your financial futures). Onnn the other hand, I would be seriously offended if my FI said something like that to me.  "Let's review in a few months and see if you're budgeting correctly?"  Ummm, no.  A different approach to money isn't necessarily a "wrong" one as long as you aren't about to go bankrupt.  <strong>He's making it sound like an engagement is some sort of prize you'll get for following his rules.  Not ok.</strong>
    Posted by Elle1036[/QUOTE]

    This.  I would bring it up again.  "FI, I was thinking about our conversation about finances and marriage, and I was bothered by your comment about evalutating my finances again in a few months. " ........

     You shouldn't have to earn an engagement by following his financial rules.  Tell him that his decisions when it comes to marriage should not by soley based on finances.  Explain that you're good with money (all of the reasons that you told us) and explain that if you continue on the planned path, your loans will be paid off in 20XX.  Otherwise, your finances will be the same as they are now.
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  • edited December 2011

    I agree with Elle, being financially sound and on the same page about things is great - and totally necessary. But excuse me? You want to do WHAT with my finances?

    Is he aware of how this sounded when he said it?

    That's all I have really got at them moment, my first reaction is just very offended at how he is going about this... I hope you can figure out what to think and where he's going with this.

  • Hazel_BHazel_B member
    2500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    I think it is completely valid that you feel hurt and insulted. If I were you I'd also add angry to the list.

    Also, accountants shouldn't be treating their clients like that. You bring them your stuff and they make suggestions but can't really force anyone to do anything unless it is in their ethical / legal interest. An accountant suld be treating their clients with respect because they are being paid for a service. To me, he has treated you like a child that can't spend their allowance appropriately, which is not what you have done at all.

    I feel that it is important that you think about if this is appropriate for you. Are you okay with this level of financial conservatism from him (because I'm not sure how much he'll change, I've seen people like that get worse when they are given more financial responsibility, ie a house)? If so, I'd recommend talking to him about how you can work in goals and treats. You work hard for your money and if you want a horse someday you need to develop a plan to do so and not just splruge one day (From what I've read, you know that already) and he needs to respect your goals and treats as much as his own. Also, the way that he communicates about finances drastically needs some work in terms of being positive and respectful. Even if he didn't intend it to come across that way, it did and he needs to understand your point of view and how he made you feel.   
  • csousa1csousa1 member
    Ninth Anniversary 1000 Comments 250 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    Whaaaaat?? I have more than that in college loan debt, and I consider myself in a really nice place financially and credit-wise. College debt is "good" debt, after all. BF doesn't have any, because he went for a semester and dropped out. He considers mine a good thing, but wants me to be smart about paying it back too. He has a great head for finances, and if I wanted to spend a good chunk of money on something while I am still paying it back, I'm sure we would discuss the pros and cons and practicality of that together beforehand. He might give the, "Hun, are you sure you should do that?" about a certain thing, but he would never make me feel like I am being reviewed. That is nonsense...

    Why does he have no college debt? Did he not go, did he work through it and pay it himself, or did mommy and daddy help? Because if it is the latter, you could just as easily be saying, "I need to review if I want to be with someone who accepts handouts from his parents." It is equally ridiculous and offensive as what he is saying.
  • becunning2becunning2 member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    I did send him a short email this morning saying that I was really hurt and offended by his comment and how it had kind of blindsided me. No response. (Finances was one of the things we discussed a month ago, and I thought it had been settled).

    And I agree that marriages shouldn't be based solely on finances. I feel like maybe he thinks everything else in line, but he's concerned about the financial part of it. He's the kind of guy who wants to buy a house in cash rather than have a mortgage. For the record, he does have a mortgage, and he's set to pay it off in something like 13 years rather than 30.

    ...I'm not sure he's aware of how it sounded. He was certainly aware that I started crying though.

    It doesn't matter that I'm "good with money" because apparently I may not be "good enough" to his standards.  *grumble*

    I won't begin repaying student loans until after I graduate (May 2012). I was planning on investing my savings account back into my student loans/paying that off sooner, but I found out that my financial situation (because I'm planning ahead for student teaching next spring) will not be what I expected. SO I'm keeping it for living expenses/tuition that semester.  And saving what I can between now and then too.
  • leia1979leia1979 member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary 100 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    Not surprisingly, I totally agree with Elle.

    FI had some debt when we met. The goal was to pay it off before we got married. He is now debt-free other than his car payment, which wasn't part of the goal. I would never ask to review his finances. He's told me he's paid it off, and he's told me he will have his half of the wedding budget. Therefore, everything's okay.

    I'm also pretty financially conservative. We've gone through tougher times when there was little or no going out to eat. I've also been very strict about keeping to (if not being under) on the wedding budget. However, a financial review like he's your boss or something isn't cool.

    I don't feel like I have good advice here. Almost all my friends got married while they still had student loan debt. Maybe come up with a plan to agree to specific financial goals together. It needs to be two-sided. His one-way plan doesn't fly.
  • becunning2becunning2 member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_finances-boyfriends-relationships-long-grumpy-emotions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:4ca0bf3c-c9f5-4d39-9deb-6ed44c165e22Post:1e3576a0-0576-43a9-9d58-47e48d325c32">Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions).</a>:
    [QUOTE]Whaaaaat?? I have more than that in college loan debt, and I consider myself in a really nice place financially and credit-wise. College debt is "good" debt, after all. BF doesn't have any, because he went for a semester and dropped out. He considers mine a good thing, but wants me to be smart about paying it back too. He has a great head for finances, and if I wanted to spend a good chunk of money on something while I am still paying it back, I'm sure we would discuss the pros and cons and practicality of that together beforehand. He might give the, "Hun, are you sure you should do that?" about a certain thing, but he would never make me feel like I am being reviewed. That is nonsense... Why does he have no college debt? Did he not go, did he work through it and pay it himself, or did mommy and daddy help? Because if it is the latter, you could just as easily be saying, "I need to review if I want to be with someone who accepts handouts from his parents." It is equally ridiculous and offensive as what he is saying.
    Posted by csousa1[/QUOTE]

    Boyfriend would say that there is no such thing as "good debt."  All debt is bad debt.

    Boyfriend lived at home for a bit, but he also worked full-time, very hard, while working on his bachelor's degree. When he didn't live at home, he had reduced rent while living at his brother's. In graduate school, he normally got jobs where his tuitionw as covered. He is not a hand-out kind of person, and he worked really hard to save up his money for a downpayment on his house.
  • Elle1036Elle1036 member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 25 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_finances-boyfriends-relationships-long-grumpy-emotions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:4ca0bf3c-c9f5-4d39-9deb-6ed44c165e22Post:37373c92-7368-4958-95f6-e3e90f0ff29c">Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions).</a>:
    [QUOTE]<strong>Not surprisingly, I totally agree with Elle</strong>. FI had some debt when we met. The goal was to pay it off before we got married. He is now debt-free other than his car payment, which wasn't part of the goal. I would never ask to review his finances. He's told me he's paid it off, and he's told me he will have his half of the wedding budget. Therefore, everything's okay. I'm also pretty financially conservative. We've gone through tougher times when there was little or no going out to eat. I've also been very strict about keeping to (if not being under) on the wedding budget. However, a financial review like he's your boss or something isn't cool. I don't feel like I have good advice here. Almost all my friends got married while they still had student loan debt. Maybe come up with a plan to agree to specific financial goals together. It needs to be two-sided. His one-way plan doesn't fly.
    Posted by leia1979[/QUOTE]

    Why does it make me smile every time you say this?
  • Hazel_BHazel_B member
    2500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    After reading Elle's point about engagement being a prize. I guess it seems to me like he's viewing marriage more like a business merger. This is appropriate to a point in the what is mine becomes ours. However, the degree of control and forcefulness that seems to be going on concerns me. It'd be one thing for him to say "I know you have a lot on your plate right now and are trying to pay down your student loans. If you want we can look at your budget/finances together and see if we can find a way to do it faster". He doesn't seem to have much of a partnership view of finances at this point.
  • leia1979leia1979 member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary 100 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    Whew, a lot of people responded while I was typing and eating at the same time. =)

    ADTonk's comment made me think of something:
    Do you use any sort of financial tracking tool like mint.com? I ask because it lets you set goals, and maybe that's the kind of thing that would put him more at ease. Your goal tracker will show that you plan to pay off your debt by X date, and you continue to track to it.
  • Hazel_BHazel_B member
    2500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    Becunning - After reading his mortgage repayment idea. I would seriously examine this relationship on this point. My co-worker has a husband who has a similar repayment schedule. She has absolutely no freedom to spend and hides purchases from him. They have funds for everything. However, they have a travel fund and never use it.  Just be careful, I'm not saying my co0worker's husband is your BF at all, but I do know she is pretty miserable and feels trapped. 

    Maybe this is a better thought. How does he enjoy his money? What are his plans when the house is paid off? If he has no plans or it is something like, we'll need to replace the furnace then. If he can't enjoy money now, I don't think this will change.
  • becunning2becunning2 member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_finances-boyfriends-relationships-long-grumpy-emotions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:4ca0bf3c-c9f5-4d39-9deb-6ed44c165e22Post:69f9e27c-47a4-4af6-a24b-8d1cf374dc3c">Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions).</a>:
    [QUOTE]I think it is completely valid that you feel hurt and insulted. If I were you I'd also add angry to the list. Also, accountants shouldn't be treating their clients like that. You bring them your stuff and they make suggestions but can't really force anyone to do anything unless it is in their ethical / legal interest. An accountant suld be treating their clients with respect because they are being paid for a service. To me, he has treated you like a child that can't spend their allowance appropriately, which is not what you have done at all. I feel that it is important that you think about if this is appropriate for you. Are you okay with this level of financial conservatism from him (because I'm not sure how much he'll change, I've seen people like that get worse when they are given more financial responsibility, ie a house)? If so, I'd recommend talking to him about how you can work in goals and treats. You work hard for your money and if you want a horse someday you need to develop a plan to do so and not just splruge one day (From what I've read, you know that already) and he needs to respect your goals and treats as much as his own. Also, the way that he communicates about finances drastically needs some work in terms of being positive and respectful. Even if he didn't intend it to come across that way, it did and he needs to understand your point of view and how he made you feel.   
    Posted by Hazel_B[/QUOTE]

    I think I'm too hurt to be really angry.  And I did feel like his comment was definitely treating me like a child, which also bothered me. While he's agreed to start helping out more, I've also been paying for most of the groceries and many dinners out because, hey, I made more money than he did, so it seemed like I should be paying for more of the bills as a responsibility thing. (He's agreed to take over groceries so I can save for my student teaching semester). So if I'm mad about anything, I'm mad that he's "let" me pay for more bills for so long only to turn around and criticize me for not paying off my loans faster.

    I tend to be okay with some of his financial conservatism. I know that relationships are about give-and-take and that his thriftiness can bring a lot to our relationship. When we talked a month ago, I told him that I could be on board with a lot of his fiscal conservatism but that I needed him to be able to give some too, let me have things that I want as well rather than wait 10-15 years to get them, and that compromise was going to be key. A month ago, he seemed fine with this.
  • desertsundesertsun member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 25 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    I'm sorry, but I think your BF is being ridiculous.

    Student loan debt, in my mind, is similar to a mortgage. It's an investment in your future.

    You don't put your life on hold to buy a house. You budget to save a downpayment, and you buy a house that you can afford the mortgage payments on. And then you have kids, take vacations, and live your life within your means.

    You don't go without eating out or new clothes for thirty years.

    I realize my opinions on this may be unpopular.

    But I could not spend my life with a man who felt he had the right to dictate how I spent my money and paid my debts.

    I disagree that any debt is bad debt. You need to use credit to build credit, for one thing. And also, I refuse to believe that my education was a bad choice. Yeah, I don't make a lot of money and it probably will take me 20 years to pay off my loans. Yes, I hope to increase my earning and pay them off sooner, but I'm not going to deny myself a house, marriage, a family, and simple pleasures for the next 20ish years. That's just stupid.

    JMO.

    Cunning, if I were you, I would straight up tell my BF that he doesn't get to dictate finances for the both of us. He may need to compromise a little, and you may need to compromise a little, but being able to find that middle ground, and realizing you will have to do it over and over when it comes to your finances, may just be the reality of having a future together.


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  • csousa1csousa1 member
    Ninth Anniversary 1000 Comments 250 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_finances-boyfriends-relationships-long-grumpy-emotions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:4ca0bf3c-c9f5-4d39-9deb-6ed44c165e22Post:668c74ff-2054-4a68-9afc-aa8bf86d57d0">Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions).</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions). : Boyfriend would say that there is no such thing as "good debt."  All debt is bad debt. Boyfriend lived at home for a bit, but he also worked full-time, very hard, while working on his bachelor's degree. When he didn't live at home, he had reduced rent while living at his brother's. In graduate school, he normally got jobs where his tuitionw as covered. He is not a hand-out kind of person, and he worked really hard to save up his money for a downpayment on his house.
    Posted by becunning2[/QUOTE]


    Well, that is awesome for him then. It is admirable that he is such a hard worker and is so good with money. It becomes much less of a good trait, however, when he holds it over your head and acts holier-than-thou about it. If he made you cry and didn't apologize, that isn't okay either. You need to have another talk with him and tell him how that made you feel, and how it is making you feel like this is a business merger and that you need to reach a certain point to be considered for this position. I would also maybe point out, not for snark but for clarification, some things about him that aren't your idea of perfect but that those would not make you reconsider marrying him if he didn't change them on the spot and to your specifications. This is not even a character flaw of yours that we are talking about, it is situational.
  • heyimbrenheyimbren member
    2500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    I'd talk to him again, and basically say what you told us. That how he said that offended you. And that a month ago, it seemed to you like you two were on the same page but now it seems like you're not. I also like Elle's line on engagement not being a prize, but that's how he's making it out to be.

    And Hazel made a really good point at considering how he views money. See if this is something you two are going to be able to compromise on and how.

  • Hazel_BHazel_B member
    2500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_finances-boyfriends-relationships-long-grumpy-emotions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:4ca0bf3c-c9f5-4d39-9deb-6ed44c165e22Post:cb49d88f-fdfc-4015-ad35-2cfbc40d6368">Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions).</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions). : I think I'm too hurt to be really angry.  And I did feel like his comment was definitely treating me like a child, which also bothered me. While he's agreed to start helping out more, I've also been paying for most of the groceries and many dinners out because, hey, I made more money than he did, so it seemed like I should be paying for more of the bills as a responsibility thing. (He's agreed to take over groceries so I can save for my student teaching semester). So if I'm mad about anything, I'm mad that he's "let" me pay for more bills for so long only to turn around and criticize me for not paying off my loans faster. I tend to be okay with some of his financial conservatism. I know that relationships are about give-and-take and that his thriftiness can bring a lot to our relationship. When we talked a month ago, I told him that I could be on board with a lot of his fiscal conservatism but that I<strong> needed him to be able to give some too</strong>, let me have things that I want as well rather than wait 10-15 years to get them, and that compromise was going to be key. A month ago, he seemed fine with this.
    Posted by becunning2[/QUOTE]

    I think you have a healthy perspective on give and take, as well as rewarding yourself. I'm just concerned that his willingness to give on things may end up being a battle for you. I believe it is much harder for someone like him to compromise than most people realize.
  • becunning2becunning2 member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_finances-boyfriends-relationships-long-grumpy-emotions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:4ca0bf3c-c9f5-4d39-9deb-6ed44c165e22Post:7413fb2b-6a1d-4a6d-bee5-503f5b44ccf5">Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions).</a>:
    [QUOTE]After reading Elle's point about engagement being a prize. I guess it seems to me like he's viewing marriage more like a business merger. This is appropriate to a point in the what is mine becomes ours. However, the degree of control and forcefulness that seems to be going on concerns me. It'd be one thing for him to say "I know you have a lot on your plate right now and are trying to pay down your student loans. If you want we can look at your budget/finances together and see if we can find a way to do it faster". He doesn't seem to have much of a partnership view of finances at this point.
    Posted by Hazel_B[/QUOTE]

    If we were to get married, we would join/share finances, so in that way, it is kind of like a merger.

    He has in fact sat down and helped me figure some things out--he made a very detailed excel sheet showing how different payment plans would work on student loans--and he did all the math and told me it would be more beneficial in terms of costs to pay down student loans before opening a retirement account based off on all sorts of averages/numbers/percents, everything. So he's been very useful on that front. 

    But at the same time, where he knows a grip about my finances, I don't really know how much he has in his retirement accounts. So it's like he knows a LOT about mine, but I don't know quite as much about his. *makes grumpy face*
  • lmwilberlmwilber member
    100 Comments
    edited December 2011
    I'm torn here too. On one hand, being 'good with money' is important, and it sounds like you are good with your money. I also understand that some people HATE debt for any reason, which sounds like your BF. But, in any loving relationship there are compromises, it sounds like you have maybe tightened  you belt a bit to get your finical situation in order. So, he should at least be able to understand why yo had to take out the loans, what you strategyis for paying them off, and, most importantly, that it was an adult choice you made to take out the loans as an investment in yourself and your future. He doesn't have to like it, but he has to accept that your situation was not like his.
    The whole needing to go over your financial records in a few months, strikes me as very controlling. He his not your father, he's you BF, so long as you pull you weight as far as living together bills go, and your not in default on any thing, then, IMO he needs to back off a bit. 
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  • becunning2becunning2 member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_finances-boyfriends-relationships-long-grumpy-emotions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:4ca0bf3c-c9f5-4d39-9deb-6ed44c165e22Post:7400a401-2402-44f7-9623-8f6c43fc4b40">Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions).</a>:
    [QUOTE]ADTonk's comment made me think of something: Do you use any sort of financial tracking tool like mint.com? I ask because it lets you set goals, and maybe that's the kind of thing that would put him more at ease. Your goal tracker will show that you plan to pay off your debt by X date, and you continue to track to it.
    Posted by leia1979[/QUOTE]

    I did start using mint.com. I love it, and it's really helping me narrow my focus and try to save for my student teaching semester.

    But since I'm in school, trying to save for a semester where essentially I'm out of work and paying to student teach (no joke), I havent' set up the goal to repay the loans yet. That's kind of an after-I-graduate thing.
  • Hazel_BHazel_B member
    2500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    Overall, I agree with Desert.  I see a lot of warning signs. I'm financially conservative already and if FI tried to do this to me I'd flip.
  • becunning2becunning2 member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    Holy crap, I love you all.  I'm getting so much wonderful feedback I can't keep up!  And I type fast!
  • Hazel_BHazel_B member
    2500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_finances-boyfriends-relationships-long-grumpy-emotions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:4ca0bf3c-c9f5-4d39-9deb-6ed44c165e22Post:71b38470-41ce-494d-a8fb-7c96fdaeb190">Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions).</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions). : If we were to get married, we would join/share finances, so in that way, it is kind of like a merger. He has in fact sat down and helped me figure some things out--he made a very detailed excel sheet showing how different payment plans would work on student loans--and he did all the math and told me it would be more beneficial in terms of costs to pay down student loans before opening a retirement account based off on all sorts of averages/numbers/percents, everything. So he's been very useful on that front.  <strong>But at the same time, where he knows a grip about my finances, I don't really know how much he has in his retirement accounts. So it's like he knows a LOT about mine, but I don't know quite as much about his. *makes grumpy face*
    </strong>Posted by becunning2[/QUOTE]

    Okay, I have a HUGE problem with this part. Have you asked to see his retirement accounts? Savings and debt go hand in hand for the future. Until he was completely upfront with his finances I'd be saying screw off and mind your own business until I ask for your opinion. The fact that he isn't divulging to you and making joint conversations really seems to be a control thing to me.
  • becunning2becunning2 member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    @Hazel B -- he does have some toys, though he hasn't bought as many recently. He has two motorcycles, a boat, and scuba gear. (He got me into it). He just bought a stereo set up and has been scouring the internet for weeks for a good price on a swanky t.v.

    @ desert:  I agree.  I want kids.  I'm going to be 29 a few months after I graduate. I'm not waiting. And I certainly don't want to wait another 12 years to get a horse. I've wanted one all my life, and I started riding lessons as an adult so I could finally enjoy it. And I LOVE it. My life shouldn't be on hold while I'm trying to pay off all my education.  Grr!

    @csousa:  I told him yesterday that I thought he had an unrealistic expectation for marriage and that no one is perfect, not me, certainly not him, and that it's about whether we are committed to making it work and working with each others imperfections.  But I definitely should talk to him about the business merger aspect of it.  :(
  • Hazel_BHazel_B member
    2500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In terms of sharing account information. With my FI, I have the view that if I want more detailed information about his finances then I have to be willing to offer mine up first. It is only fair that way.
  • DanieKADanieKA member
    Knottie Warrior 1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_finances-boyfriends-relationships-long-grumpy-emotions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:4ca0bf3c-c9f5-4d39-9deb-6ed44c165e22Post:668c74ff-2054-4a68-9afc-aa8bf86d57d0">Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions).</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions). : B<strong>oyfriend would say that there is no such thing as "good debt."  All debt is bad debt.</strong> Boyfriend lived at home for a bit, but he also worked full-time, very hard, while working on his bachelor's degree. When he didn't live at home, he had reduced rent while living at his brother's. In graduate school, he normally got jobs where his tuitionw as covered.<strong> He is not a hand-out kind of person</strong>, and he worked really hard to save up his money for a downpayment on his house.
    Posted by becunning2[/QUOTE]

    <div>I had no idea some people considered my education loans, or any education loans as handouts. Guess you shouldn't go to law school, or any other higher education unless you have an extra hundred thousand dollars to pay in cash. Which would pretty much exclude everyone but the wealthy from this kind of higher learning. </div><div>
    </div><div>You seem like a smart, well adjusted woman. Your boyfriend sounds like a tool. I'm sorry, but this really rubs me the wrong way. You haven't gone on shopping sprees, you didn't buy a car or clothes you couldn't afford, there really is no indication of you behaving unwisely at all. You decided to go to college! Which we all know is CRAZY irresponsible!!!! Plus you decided to go somewhere that wasn't free! How dare you! Maybe you can ask him to find you some free universities and you'd be happy to transfer there so you can pay off your debt and he'll then deign to marry you. </div><div>
    </div><div>This just sounds like a completely unfair, and frankly uninformed opinion. All debt isn't bad debt. And I'd be concerned with any accountant who told me that. Especially one who lived with his parents and/or had a drastically reduced rent from his brother to help him through school. </div><div>
    </div><div>Edited for spelling. I was heated.</div>
  • becunning2becunning2 member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_finances-boyfriends-relationships-long-grumpy-emotions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:4ca0bf3c-c9f5-4d39-9deb-6ed44c165e22Post:c3ad4733-0732-42eb-8f3d-9e2476d59852">Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions).</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions). : Okay, I have a HUGE problem with this part. Have you asked to see his retirement accounts? Savings and debt go hand in hand for the future. Until he was completely upfront with his finances I'd be saying screw off and mind your own business until I ask for your opinion. The fact that he isn't divulging to you and making joint conversations really seems to be a control thing to me.
    Posted by Hazel_B[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I think I should talk to him some more about this too, definitely. 

    And I do want to remind you all that I'm talking about his *worst*  behavior here. In every other respect, he's funny, intelligent, caring, cuddly, and encouraging. But he's right, and you're all right, that finances are a huge, huge part of a relationship. And I find it completely unacceptable to be punished or slighted in any way because I had to take out student loans. I worked full-time in college too (still kinda do, 30 hours a week in grad school!), but I had some more expenses.
  • Hazel_BHazel_B member
    2500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_finances-boyfriends-relationships-long-grumpy-emotions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:4ca0bf3c-c9f5-4d39-9deb-6ed44c165e22Post:ad3b3f58-2bc9-4fb6-9006-a062bb6684b2">Re: Finances, boyfriends, and relationships (long with grumpy emotions).</a>:
    [QUOTE]@Hazel B -- he does have some toys, though he hasn't bought as many recently. He has two motorcycles, a boat, and scuba gear. (He got me into it). He just bought a stereo set up and has been scouring the internet for weeks for a good price on a swanky t.v. @ desert:  I agree.  I want kids.  I'm going to be 29 a few months after I graduate. I'm not waiting. <strong>And I certainly don't want to wait another 12 years to get a horse. I've wanted one all my life, and I started riding lessons as an adult so I could finally enjoy it. And I LOVE it.</strong> My life shouldn't be on hold while I'm trying to pay off all my education.  Grr! @csousa:  I told him yesterday that I thought he had an unrealistic expectation for marriage and that no one is perfect, not me, certainly not him, and that it's about whether we are committed to making it work and working with each others imperfections.  But I definitely should talk to him about the business merger aspect of it.  :(
    Posted by becunning2[/QUOTE]

    So, it sounds like he is able to enjoy his money. How does he feel about your horse, is he encouraging aside from the student loan issue? Or, he discouraging about your "toy" and using the student loan as a reason to not get it?
  • Hazel_BHazel_B member
    2500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    Becunning - I'm sure he's a great guy, it just the uneveness in finances and how he treats that that concerns me. It could be a great learning opportunity as a couple, but he isn't using it in a positive light really.
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