Since when does etiquette = opinion ?

d2va · April 2014

Umm... so I'm part of an August 2014 Facebook group which I think most of the people found using these forums or some forum or website in general.

There have been the darnedest things being posted and I'm just at a loss for words. Lol

Every time I let them know that what they are doing is wrong... its suddenly MY opinion.

NO its not just my opinion that you should have sufficient food at a meal time wedding reception.

NO its not just my opinion that you should not make a separate insert with a cute poem requesting cash as a gift.

what what what

why?

grumbledore · April 2014

d2va said: Umm... so I'm part of an August 2014 Facebook group which I think most of the people found using these forums or some forum or website in general. There have been the darnedest things being posted and I'm just at a loss for words. Lol Every time I let them know that what they are doing is wrong... its suddenly MY opinion. NO its not just my opinion that you should have sufficient food at a meal time wedding reception. NO its not just my opinion that you should not make a separate insert with a cute poem requesting cash as a gift. what what what why?

Well, obviously when you disagree with them it's your opinion but when they want to do something rude, it's totally normal and no one they know will think they are rude.

Silly silly.

dolewhipper · April 2014

I would find Q&A from Miss Manners/ Post and copy paste it when necessary. Just state "not only my "opinion" and post away

theartistformerlyknownas · April 2014

I've had a bit of the same experience... maybe people hide in the local and club boards because they don't want to run into the E regs?

d2va · April 2014

lolo883 said:

I've had a bit of the same experience... maybe people hide in the local and club boards because they don't want to run into the E regs?

Quite possibly. Its just odd to me really.

I AM trying to help, but it seems that no one gives a shit about these little things that if they would just take 2 minutes to actually THINK about what they are considering its just rude. Period.

Theres a few things I get snarky about, and not naming the SO on the invite, putting registry / requesting money on the invite, not having ample food at a meal time, and thank you cards are my biggest pet peeves.

Thankfully, I havent had to deal with gaps, or cash bars because in my circle that just never happens but these are like the simplest things ever.

Maggie0829 · April 2014

But their situation is different so what they are doing is so okay! Duh!

msuprincess04 · April 2014

Because it's totally cool in their "town/country/family". You just don't understand.

blabla89 · April 2014

Maggie0829 said:

But their situation is different so what they are doing is so okay! Duh!

Exactly! And obviously none of their friends and family think it's rude otherwise they would have said something.

sarawifenow · April 2014

grumbledore said:

d2va said:

Umm... so I'm part of an August 2014 Facebook group which I think most of the people found using these forums or some forum or website in general. There have been the darnedest things being posted and I'm just at a loss for words. Lol Every time I let them know that what they are doing is wrong... its suddenly MY opinion. NO its not just my opinion that you should have sufficient food at a meal time wedding reception. NO its not just my opinion that you should not make a separate insert with a cute poem requesting cash as a gift. what what what why?

Well, obviously when you disagree with them it's your opinion but when they want to do something rude, it's totally normal and no one they know will think they are rude.

Silly silly.

ETF-What happened to the quote box?

This. I find that most of the time when people are doing something really rude, they want validation, not opposition.

melbenso · April 2014

I think etiquette is, if you want to be technical, a matter of opinion in almost all cases. However, the reason something is considered to be polite or rude is that it is the opinion of most reasonable people that it is. Thus, if you want to treat people properly and not offend them, you act in a manner that most people think is polite. Just because everyone wouldn't be offended by your actions doesn't mean what you are doing is polite if some reasonable people would be offended by it. It never hurts to be nicer to someone than you need to be. The alternative... not so much.

phira · April 2014

I think that etiquette is entirely subjective. However, there are things that tend to be perceived as rude (e.g. lots of people hold the opinion that the thing is a rude thing). And that's why etiquette matters.

It is my opinion that potluck weddings are not rude. I really don't care. Meanwhile, it is my partner's opinion that it is okay to get married in advance of your wedding. He really doesn't care. Both of us acknowledge that there are ways that each thing could be more or less offensive. For example, I think it would be SUPER rude to insist that every guest bring a dish, to assign dishes, to require that guests also provide serving utensils, and to make guests serve the food. He thinks it would be super rude to get married for benefits, lie about it, and have a destination wedding that's expensive for everyone to attend.

However, the way that etiquette works is that it's about being a good host, and so what matters is the perception of all of the guests. All of them. Not just me or him. So if Sue Ellen has a potluck wedding, I won't mind ... but my partner will be really irritated. If Lisa and Dave get married a week earlier and don't tell anyone at the time, my partner will think nothing of it, but I'll hold a small grudge for a long time.

People who get all WAHHHH ETIQUETTE POLICE are going to point out: is it realistic to believe you can please all of your guests? What if you have guests who believe that something is bad etiquette when it's not? For example, my partner is upset because we went to a wedding where the food was barbecue, and the catering was done by food trucks. He's a vegetarian, and he doesn't like food trucks. Although there were vegetarian options (and an entree), he didn't like the food. But this isn't bad etiquette. And just because he wasn't pleased with the food doesn't mean that all etiquette rules should go out the window. That's like saying, "But Uncle Dan is going to hate that we can't afford top shelf liquor [not an etiquette problem--you can afford what you can afford], so I HAVE to have a cash bar!"

So what do you do? Besides listen to people on an etiquette board when you ask a question about etiquette?

You should try to default to the option that makes the event more enjoyable for your guests, and avoid asking your guests to pay anything to attend and enjoy your event.

Couggal12 · April 2014

It's totes okay to have a cash bar because I asked all my friends and family and they don't care! It's normal in my area! So stop ruining MY day.

short+sassy · April 2014

melbenso said:

I think etiquette is, if you want to be technical, a matter of opinion in almost all cases. However, the reason something is considered to be polite or rude is that it is the opinion of most reasonable people that it is. Thus, if you want to treat people properly and not offend them, you act in a manner that most people think is polite. Just because everyone wouldn't be offended by your actions doesn't mean what you are doing is polite if some reasonable people would be offended by it. It never hurts to be nicer to someone than you need to be. The alternative... not so much.

So true! I personally wish that it wasn't considered rude to put registry information in the wedding invitation, because then it saves me a call or...in our current day and age...going to the couple's wedding website. I typically buy off a registry and so I would prefer the info handy right there as an insert in the invitation.

But, I acknowledge most people disagree with me and I understand why it is considered rude, even though I actually find it helpful. And I certainly did NOT include registry info in my own invitations because that is about what my GUESTS would/might find offensive, not what I would.

luckysnorkel · April 2014

phira said:

I think that etiquette is entirely subjective. However, there are things that tend to be perceived as rude (e.g. lots of people hold the opinion that the thing is a rude thing). And that's why etiquette matters.

It is my opinion that potluck weddings are not rude. I really don't care. Meanwhile, it is my partner's opinion that it is okay to get married in advance of your wedding. He really doesn't care. Both of us acknowledge that there are ways that each thing could be more or less offensive. For example, I think it would be SUPER rude to insist that every guest bring a dish, to assign dishes, to require that guests also provide serving utensils, and to make guests serve the food. He thinks it would be super rude to get married for benefits, lie about it, and have a destination wedding that's expensive for everyone to attend.

However, the way that etiquette works is that it's about being a good host, and so what matters is the perception of all of the guests. All of them. Not just me or him. So if Sue Ellen has a potluck wedding, I won't mind ... but my partner will be really irritated. If Lisa and Dave get married a week earlier and don't tell anyone at the time, my partner will think nothing of it, but I'll hold a small grudge for a long time.

People who get all WAHHHH ETIQUETTE POLICE are going to point out: is it realistic to believe you can please all of your guests? What if you have guests who believe that something is bad etiquette when it's not? For example, my partner is upset because we went to a wedding where the food was barbecue, and the catering was done by food trucks. He's a vegetarian, and he doesn't like food trucks. Although there were vegetarian options (and an entree), he didn't like the food. But this isn't bad etiquette. And just because he wasn't pleased with the food doesn't mean that all etiquette rules should go out the window. That's like saying, "But Uncle Dan is going to hate that we can't afford top shelf liquor [not an etiquette problem--you can afford what you can afford], so I HAVE to have a cash bar!"

So what do you do? Besides listen to people on an etiquette board when you ask a question about etiquette?

You should try to default to the option that makes the event more enjoyable for your guests, and avoid asking your guests to pay anything to attend and enjoy your event.

This is a good way of looking at it.

FI and I just received an invitation to a friend's wedding. The envelope had our address printed on it (rather than handwritten) and the invitation included a card with registry info. I pointed them out as etiquette mistakes to my FI (since we're working on our own invitations right now) and he good-naturedly rolled his eyes. I told him that neither of these things bug me personally, but that there are a lot of people who consider them rude, and that is why I find it important to avoid making those same errors. Even if those things would only offend ONE of our guests, is it really worth it? No.

hyechica81 · April 2014

this one is the best we are having a afternoon ceremony and a reception after but we figured since its very casual and the reception is at 4 everyone would have eaten before the ceremony. so we have decided to have a bunch of light foods scattered around the reception on tables but we are not going to spend a lot of the food but we know we will run out but at least we will have something for those who are hungry.

you need to have enough food for everyone 4pm is a meal time so you need to serve some kind of dinner

is it ok to get a nice cake but get enough to only feed portion of our guest we dont want to have enough to feed everyone and then it gets wasted we could save money that way

as for the cake you need to have enough for everyone

some of the things i have heard and seen

grumbledore · April 2014

hyechica81 said:

this one is the best we are having a afternoon ceremony and a reception after but we figured since its very casual and the reception is at 4 everyone would have eaten before the ceremony. so we have decided to have a bunch of light foods scattered around the reception on tables but we are not going to spend a lot of the food but we know we will run out but at least we will have something for those who are hungry.

you need to have enough food for everyone 4pm is a meal time so you need to serve some kind of dinner

is it ok to get a nice cake but get enough to only feed portion of our guest we dont want to have enough to feed everyone and then it gets wasted we could save money that way

as for the cake you need to have enough for everyone

some of the things i have heard and seen

4 PM is in no way a mealtime.

Couggal12 · April 2014

It's a little difficult for me to follow your post @hyechica81, but are you saying 4 PM reception is okay to have "light foods"? I would disagree. If your reception was from 4-7, I would expect a full meal around 5. Otherwise I would be leaving at 6 PM to go eat dinner. Also, you should not run out food.

MobKaz · April 2014

hyechica81 said:

this one is the best we are having a afternoon ceremony and a reception after but we figured since its very casual and the reception is at 4 everyone would have eaten before the ceremony. so we have decided to have a bunch of light foods scattered around the reception on tables but we are not going to spend a lot of the food but we know we will run out but at least we will have something for those who are hungry.

you need to have enough food for everyone 4pm is a meal time so you need to serve some kind of dinner

is it ok to get a nice cake but get enough to only feed portion of our guest we dont want to have enough to feed everyone and then it gets wasted we could save money that way

as for the cake you need to have enough for everyone

some of the things i have heard and seen

I know this has been brought to your attention before, and I will also politely remind you that your posts are extremely difficult to read/decipher because of your lack of punctuation and poor syntax. This response is a perfect example.

It sounds like you are having a 4 PM reception but are not offering a meal. You will have some "light food" scattered about and expect to run out. That is NOT the way to host a reception. In the next paragraph you (ironically) seem to point out that 4 PM is indeed a meal time and are requiring the OP to have not only a meal, but to have "enough'.

Next you seem to be asking whether you can offer cake to some but not all your guests, and yet seem to be telling the OP to get a cake large enough to feed everyone. You can't be serious.

a13049 · April 2014

phira said:

I think that etiquette is entirely subjective. However, there are things that tend to be perceived as rude (e.g. lots of people hold the opinion that the thing is a rude thing). And that's why etiquette matters.

It is my opinion that potluck weddings are not rude. I really don't care. Meanwhile, it is my partner's opinion that it is okay to get married in advance of your wedding. He really doesn't care. Both of us acknowledge that there are ways that each thing could be more or less offensive. For example, I think it would be SUPER rude to insist that every guest bring a dish, to assign dishes, to require that guests also provide serving utensils, and to make guests serve the food. He thinks it would be super rude to get married for benefits, lie about it, and have a destination wedding that's expensive for everyone to attend.

However, the way that etiquette works is that it's about being a good host, and so what matters is the perception of all of the guests. All of them. Not just me or him. So if Sue Ellen has a potluck wedding, I won't mind ... but my partner will be really irritated. If Lisa and Dave get married a week earlier and don't tell anyone at the time, my partner will think nothing of it, but I'll hold a small grudge for a long time.

People who get all WAHHHH ETIQUETTE POLICE are going to point out: is it realistic to believe you can please all of your guests? What if you have guests who believe that something is bad etiquette when it's not? For example, my partner is upset because we went to a wedding where the food was barbecue, and the catering was done by food trucks. He's a vegetarian, and he doesn't like food trucks. Although there were vegetarian options (and an entree), he didn't like the food. But this isn't bad etiquette. And just because he wasn't pleased with the food doesn't mean that all etiquette rules should go out the window. That's like saying, "But Uncle Dan is going to hate that we can't afford top shelf liquor [not an etiquette problem--you can afford what you can afford], so I HAVE to have a cash bar!"

So what do you do? Besides listen to people on an etiquette board when you ask a question about etiquette?

You should try to default to the option that makes the event more enjoyable for your guests, and avoid asking your guests to pay anything to attend and enjoy your event.

I agree with this^. Most ettiquette issues don't bother me at all, but that doesn't mean I won't learn about them so I don't come off as rude to my guests. I personally would be annoyed with a potluck weddings, but like your husband could give a crap less about PPD. If you aren't lieing to me about you PPD I will have a great time either way. I prefer a chair for my butt, because I don't wear heels all that often but I like to dress up for weddings, and a meal of some sort if I am attending during meal time. I won't complain, but we will probably leave early because I won't really be enjoying myself. I have never been to a wedding that didn't have a dollar dance, so I ahve always put $5 in my purse for me and FI. I know my FI really hated being seperated from me when I was a candle lighter at my cousins wedding and he had just met my family. I was a candle lighter, I had no idea I would be seperated, I felt so bad and annoyed. I could give a crap less about the formality of the invitation and if there is registry info on it or who it is addressed to, as long as its clear my FI and I are both invited.

stef42188 · April 2014

mobkaz said:

hyechica81 said:

this one is the best we are having a afternoon ceremony and a reception after but we figured since its very casual and the reception is at 4 everyone would have eaten before the ceremony. so we have decided to have a bunch of light foods scattered around the reception on tables but we are not going to spend a lot of the food but we know we will run out but at least we will have something for those who are hungry.

you need to have enough food for everyone 4pm is a meal time so you need to serve some kind of dinner

is it ok to get a nice cake but get enough to only feed portion of our guest we dont want to have enough to feed everyone and then it gets wasted we could save money that way

as for the cake you need to have enough for everyone

some of the things i have heard and seen

I know this has been brought to your attention before, and I will also politely remind you that your posts are extremely difficult to read/decipher because of your lack of punctuation and poor syntax. This response is a perfect example.

It sounds like you are having a 4 PM reception but are not offering a meal. You will have some "light food" scattered about and expect to run out. That is NOT the way to host a reception. In the next paragraph you (ironically) seem to point out that 4 PM is indeed a meal time and are requiring the OP to have not only a meal, but to have "enough'.

Next you seem to be asking whether you can offer cake to some but not all your guests, and yet seem to be telling the OP to get a cake large enough to feed everyone. You can't be serious.

Hyechica can correct me if I am wrong, but I read it as in the first paragraph she is giving an example of someone using bad etiquette (saying they will have light food at 4pm which she considers a meal time) and in the following paragraph she is telling them that what they plan on doing is wrong. Same for the third paragraph about cake, and in the fourth paragraph she corrects that person and tells them they need to have enough cake. And then says that these are examples she has seen of poor etiquette and why they are wrong. I don't think she is actually doing any of those things.

I can understand most of your posts, Hyechica, and I think you have some good points many times, but they get lost in your sentence structure and lack of punctuation/capitalization/grammar.

Gerbertmcway · April 2014

hyechica81 said:

this one is the best we are having a afternoon ceremony and a reception after but we figured since its very casual and the reception is at 4 everyone would have eaten before the ceremony. so we have decided to have a bunch of light foods scattered around the reception on tables but we are not going to spend a lot of the food but we know we will run out but at least we will have something for those who are hungry.

you need to have enough food for everyone 4pm is a meal time so you need to serve some kind of dinner

is it ok to get a nice cake but get enough to only feed portion of our guest we dont want to have enough to feed everyone and then it gets wasted we could save money that way

as for the cake you need to have enough for everyone

some of the things i have heard and seen

I know this has been brought to your attention before, and I will also politely remind you that your posts are extremely difficult to read/decipher because of your lack of punctuation and poor syntax. This response is a perfect example.

It sounds like you are having a 4 PM reception but are not offering a meal. You will have some "light food" scattered about and expect to run out. That is NOT the way to host a reception. In the next paragraph you (ironically) seem to point out that 4 PM is indeed a meal time and are requiring the OP to have not only a meal, but to have "enough'.

Next you seem to be asking whether you can offer cake to some but not all your guests, and yet seem to be telling the OP to get a cake large enough to feed everyone. You can't be serious.

It's really not that difficult to understand that she's quoting things she's heard others say regarding etiquette and then responding to them. Sure, better writing skills would be helpful here but some not-so-critical thinking skills on your end would go a long way as well.

Couggal12 · April 2014

Gerbertmcway said:

hyechica81 said:

this one is the best we are having a afternoon ceremony and a reception after but we figured since its very casual and the reception is at 4 everyone would have eaten before the ceremony. so we have decided to have a bunch of light foods scattered around the reception on tables but we are not going to spend a lot of the food but we know we will run out but at least we will have something for those who are hungry.

you need to have enough food for everyone 4pm is a meal time so you need to serve some kind of dinner

is it ok to get a nice cake but get enough to only feed portion of our guest we dont want to have enough to feed everyone and then it gets wasted we could save money that way

as for the cake you need to have enough for everyone

some of the things i have heard and seen

I know this has been brought to your attention before, and I will also politely remind you that your posts are extremely difficult to read/decipher because of your lack of punctuation and poor syntax. This response is a perfect example.

It sounds like you are having a 4 PM reception but are not offering a meal. You will have some "light food" scattered about and expect to run out. That is NOT the way to host a reception. In the next paragraph you (ironically) seem to point out that 4 PM is indeed a meal time and are requiring the OP to have not only a meal, but to have "enough'.

Next you seem to be asking whether you can offer cake to some but not all your guests, and yet seem to be telling the OP to get a cake large enough to feed everyone. You can't be serious.

It's really not that difficult to understand that she's quoting things she's heard others say regarding etiquette and then responding to them. Sure, better writing skills would be helpful here but some not-so-critical thinking skills on your end would go a long way as well.

When you write on online forums the only thing you have is your words. So if you don't use correct grammar, punctuation or spelling then yes, it does make it difficult to understand what someone else means.

Maggie0829 · April 2014

hyechica81 said:

this one is the best we are having a afternoon ceremony and a reception after but we figured since its very casual and the reception is at 4 everyone would have eaten before the ceremony. so we have decided to have a bunch of light foods scattered around the reception on tables but we are not going to spend a lot of the food but we know we will run out but at least we will have something for those who are hungry.

you need to have enough food for everyone 4pm is a meal time so you need to serve some kind of dinner

is it ok to get a nice cake but get enough to only feed portion of our guest we dont want to have enough to feed everyone and then it gets wasted we could save money that way

as for the cake you need to have enough for everyone

some of the things i have heard and seen

4 PM is in no way a mealtime.

4PM itself is not a meal time but if the reception is from 4-8 or 9 then a meal should be served. But I think if you have a short reception from 4-6 then light snacks would be fine.

larrygaga · April 2014

hyechica81 said:

this one is the best we are having a afternoon ceremony and a reception after but we figured since its very casual and the reception is at 4 everyone would have eaten before the ceremony. so we have decided to have a bunch of light foods scattered around the reception on tables but we are not going to spend a lot of the food but we know we will run out but at least we will have something for those who are hungry.

you need to have enough food for everyone 4pm is a meal time so you need to serve some kind of dinner

is it ok to get a nice cake but get enough to only feed portion of our guest we dont want to have enough to feed everyone and then it gets wasted we could save money that way

as for the cake you need to have enough for everyone

some of the things i have heard and seen

kitty8403 · April 2014

Couggal12 said:

Gerbertmcway said:

hyechica81 said:

this one is the best we are having a afternoon ceremony and a reception after but we figured since its very casual and the reception is at 4 everyone would have eaten before the ceremony. so we have decided to have a bunch of light foods scattered around the reception on tables but we are not going to spend a lot of the food but we know we will run out but at least we will have something for those who are hungry.

you need to have enough food for everyone 4pm is a meal time so you need to serve some kind of dinner

is it ok to get a nice cake but get enough to only feed portion of our guest we dont want to have enough to feed everyone and then it gets wasted we could save money that way

as for the cake you need to have enough for everyone

some of the things i have heard and seen

I know this has been brought to your attention before, and I will also politely remind you that your posts are extremely difficult to read/decipher because of your lack of punctuation and poor syntax. This response is a perfect example.

It sounds like you are having a 4 PM reception but are not offering a meal. You will have some "light food" scattered about and expect to run out. That is NOT the way to host a reception. In the next paragraph you (ironically) seem to point out that 4 PM is indeed a meal time and are requiring the OP to have not only a meal, but to have "enough'.

Next you seem to be asking whether you can offer cake to some but not all your guests, and yet seem to be telling the OP to get a cake large enough to feed everyone. You can't be serious.

It's really not that difficult to understand that she's quoting things she's heard others say regarding etiquette and then responding to them. Sure, better writing skills would be helpful here but some not-so-critical thinking skills on your end would go a long way as well.

When you write on online forums the only thing you have is your words. So if you don't use correct grammar, punctuation or spelling then yes, it does make it difficult to understand what someone else means.

It sounds more like perhaps the poster is not a native speaker. I agree, it sounds like she's attempting to give two examples of poor etiquette (light food close to mealtime and cutting it close on dessert) and then comment on them.

CMGragain · April 2014

I'm not going to enter the debates, but OP, you made my day! Every time I quote Miss Manners, Emily Post or Crane's Invitation Guide, someone accuses me of clutching my pearls, and insists that etiquette is stuffy and antiquated! Yay! I'm not alone anymore!

grumbledore · April 2014

grumbledore said:

hyechica81 said:

this one is the best we are having a afternoon ceremony and a reception after but we figured since its very casual and the reception is at 4 everyone would have eaten before the ceremony. so we have decided to have a bunch of light foods scattered around the reception on tables but we are not going to spend a lot of the food but we know we will run out but at least we will have something for those who are hungry.

you need to have enough food for everyone 4pm is a meal time so you need to serve some kind of dinner

is it ok to get a nice cake but get enough to only feed portion of our guest we dont want to have enough to feed everyone and then it gets wasted we could save money that way

as for the cake you need to have enough for everyone

some of the things i have heard and seen

4 PM is in no way a mealtime.

Clarifying - 4 PM itself is not a mealtime. If the reception is going later than 5 PM however, then you will cross into a mealtime and should provide a meal.

Since when does etiquette = opinion ?

Re: Since when does etiquette = opinion ?

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