Thank You Note vs. Thank You Phone Call....thoughts?

notdoingitbythebook · May 2015

Jen4948 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

novella1186 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

southernbelle0915 said:

mikenberger said:

notdoingitbythebook said:
@southernbelle0915 I feel that thank you notes are more impersonal because you don't have to make an effort to write them at a convenient time for the recipient, like you do a phone call or seeing them face to face. You can write thank you notes at any time that is convenient for you, like 2am when you can't sleep. A phone call is something you actually have to schedule and connect with the peson, something you don't do with a card. A card is lovely, absolutely. But getting a call from someone or seeing them face to face is just so much better.
What does it matter at what time you're writing the thank you note? You're taking the time to sit down, think about your words and put it onto paper. Then address it, stamp it and mail it. I don't see what sitting down at whatever time is convenient for you to write them has to do with how personable a thank you note is.
This. And also, the TY note recipient can open/read it whenever they want, so it's not like someone writes TY notes only because it's convenient for them. It's actually more convenient for the TY note recipient as well.
True enough. It can be more convenient for the recipient, though I know of few people who wait for a convenient time to open their mail. Everyone I know just opens it when they get it. But yes, I see what you're saying.
I'm another person who hates getting random phone calls from people I don't normally communicate with over the phone. I hate talking on the phone in general and usually don't answer at all, unless it's my aunt or best friend. So getting a phone call as a thank-you would be extra irritating and inconvenient to me. It wouldn't be a nice thing at all.

From my end, I had several wedding guests from other countries. The logistics of finding a time to call them-- given our extremely different time zones and work schedules-- and then having them pay for the long distance (because even if I'm the caller, charges apply to them too) just doesn't make sense at all. There's a reason written notes are the norm.

Yes. I can understand those logistical issues. Again, I did not say I wanted phone calls to become required, I said I prefer them. There's a difference. If I knew you and had to thank you, I would be disappointed that you would refuse to talk to me on the phone, so I would send you a thank you card. Or arrange a coffee date or something. I just prefer to contact people directly and to have people contact me directly for stuff like this. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this.
----------lost my box-----------------------------------------------

You would be disappointed in me? Then I would see no need to inconvenience you with a gift in the first place. I don't "refuse" to speak to people on the phone. It's just not my normal thing, so I keep my phone on silent (especially for my office) and usually don't even notice if I get a phone call, which isn't often anyways since everyone who knows me knows I don't like phone calls.

Not disappointed in you, just disappointed that you as a friend or family member wouldn't want to converse with someone that I would think (hope?) is near and dear. But hopefully I would know your preference and would not call you as that is your preference. My phone is always on silent in the office (ringtones are so annoying) but I see when calls come in. Really, this topic comes down to different strokes for different folks... and respecting those differences while maintaining what's expected.

You expect every friend and family member to be eagerly awaiting a call from you? What if, they're driving, sick, having an emergency, in the middle of work or errands, or just happen to be doing something else and aren't in the mood for any phone conversations, regardless of how "dear" you think they consider you? Expecting them to be automatically in the mood to converse with you, regardless of what else might be going on with them, will get you bounced from just about everyone's idea of who is "near and dear" to them.

Of course not. Good grief. Why is every so bloody black and white on this board? Does no one get a call and say "hey! Good to hear from you. I'm in the middle of something, can I call you back?" I had no idea this wasn't the norm. If someone's busy and can't talk, it's a given that they will call the person back. I had no idea I would have to explicitly explain that as a part of my answer to the question of preference from the OP.

ohannabelle · May 2015

The whole "phone calls are more convenient" idea is pure frikking selfishness, masquerading as an "open minded" idea.

It is in no way convenient to get an unexpected phone call, for anybody but the caller who is just too lazy to be bothered writing a note. As for the bullshit about it being a wonderful time to have a personal conversation? If I care about someone enough to invite them to a wedding, I also make the effort to have personal conversations with them and stay in touch all year, every year. It's not a special occasion event for when they give me something.

It's the opposite of good etiquette, because it's a practice based on pure selfishness. Not what's best for other people.

(If you aren't close enough to someone to be in touch and informed about their life, I seriously question why they were invited.)

It's never inconvenient to get a nice letter. I love seeing happy stuff in the mailbox.

Nobody ever rolled their eyes and said, Ohmygod, I have to open an envelope right now?

Because they don't.

Good manners- thinking about other people and making an effort. It isn't about me.

Bad manners- it works for me. I like it. It's my opinion.

(A quick PSA: This is the etiquette board, where people read because they want to know the kindest, most pleasant way to behave to a great number of people.

Etiquette is based on many things, but usually constructed on equal measures of common sense and unselfish thought, and respect for other human beings. It's a pretty damned sturdy framework to build on.

Sometimes, an element of tradition is added into the construction, which isn't without value. Shared tradition, within any society, create stronger social bonds through shared human experience.

The number one rule of etiquette is Don't Be An Asshole. All other etiquette rules originate from this great grandmother of all etiquette rules.

It's not about frikking oyster forks and mindless formalities. It's about caring for and demonstrating respect for other human beings. Namaste, FFS.

Some days, I just really can't deal with the All About Me attitudes. Like today. I have interesting and fun things to do.

notdoingitbythebook · May 2015

STARMOON44 said:
I want a written thank you matter what. If you also want an intimate vocal connection with me, I don't see what that has to do with thanking me for a gift. Phone calls and coffee should already be a regular part of our relationship. If they aren't I'm not interested in you forcing the issue because I gave you a gift.

Does it have to be either or? What's wrong with both if phone calls and coffee are already part of the conversation?

flantastic · May 2015

notdoingitbythebook said:

STARMOON44 said:
I want a written thank you matter what. If you also want an intimate vocal connection with me, I don't see what that has to do with thanking me for a gift. Phone calls and coffee should already be a regular part of our relationship. If they aren't I'm not interested in you forcing the issue because I gave you a gift.
Does it have to be either or? What's wrong with both if phone calls and coffee are already part of the conversation?

Nothing. But as others have said, there's no reason to make a point of calling to thank. Just call people like you normally would, if that's a thing you do, and write your note, and if over the course of the phone call you feel the need to express your appreciation again, fine. But that's different than advocating "thank you phone calls."

ETA: If it's someone you should be calling, you don't need them to send you a gift to give you the "excuse" to call. You don't need an excuse. You call and talk because you want to talk, full stop.

redoryx · May 2015

notdoingitbythebook said:
I think the issue is that a phone call is more convenient for YOU. You have no way of knowing that it's more convenient for the recipient. People often call when I'm in the middle of things. I can't tell you how many times the phone rings when I'm eating dinner, changing a diaper, in the bathroom or just have my hands full.

But I'll hold onto a thank you note for days / weeks / months / years.

Most people I know throw thank you notes out. I know I was in a group once and we did a poll and surprisingly most people threw them out. Some people kept them forever and forever but most don't. However I get what you're saying. Most people who get calls when they are busy call the person back. I thought that would be a given. I don't expect people to drop everything and talk. Good grief. However, in my family and with my friends we just return the calls afterward. I didn't realize that wasn't a global thing.

I don't answer the phone unless it's my sister, my parents, or my SO. And no, I don't always call people back unless they leave me a voicemail specifically asking me too. So, you call and I don't answer and you're either going to leave a thank you over voicemail which seems incredibly impersonal, or I'm going to send you a text asking what's up at which point you entire thank me via text or ask me to call you which is going to be annoying, but whatever, or you're going to keep calling me until I answer which will bug the crap out of me.

Earlier today I had to call my bank. I'm on the phone, on speaker phone with them, and at the same time I'm bouncing between writing an email, reading TK, reading blogs, etc. If I were to sit down and actually write a letter to my bank, I'd have to be solely focused on the task at hand. That's why I find letter writing to be far more personal than a phone call.

Jen4948 · May 2015

notdoingitbythebook said:

banana468 said:
I think the issue is that a phone call is more convenient for YOU. You have no way of knowing that it's more convenient for the recipient. People often call when I'm in the middle of things. I can't tell you how many times the phone rings when I'm eating dinner, changing a diaper, in the bathroom or just have my hands full.

But I'll hold onto a thank you note for days / weeks / months / years.
Most people I know throw thank you notes out. I know I was in a group once and we did a poll and surprisingly most people threw them out. Some people kept them forever and forever but most don't. However I get what you're saying. Most people who get calls when they are busy call the person back. I thought that would be a given. I don't expect people to drop everything and talk. Good grief. However, in my family and with my friends we just return the calls afterward. I didn't realize that wasn't a global thing.

No one has ever said you have to keep thank-you notes forever! It's okay for the recipients to throw them out, burn them, shred them, or whatever-but they still need to be written by the person who was given the gift-regardless of what the givers decide to do with them.

banana468 · May 2015

ohannabelle said:
The whole "phone calls are more convenient" idea is pure frikking selfishness, masquerading as an "open minded" idea.
It is in no way convenient to get an unexpected phone call, for anybody but the caller who is just too lazy to be bothered writing a note. As for the bullshit about it being a wonderful time to have a personal conversation? If I care about someone enough to invite them to a wedding, I also make the effort to have personal conversations with them and stay in touch all year, every year. It's not a special occasion event for when they give me something.

It's the opposite of good etiquette, because it's a practice based on pure selfishness. Not what's best for other people.

(If you aren't close enough to someone to be in touch and informed about their life, I seriously question why they were invited.)

It's never inconvenient to get a nice letter. I love seeing happy stuff in the mailbox.
Nobody ever rolled their eyes and said, Ohmygod, I have to open an envelope right now?
Because they don't.

Good manners- thinking about other people and making an effort. It isn't about me.
Bad manners- it works for me. I like it. It's my opinion.

(A quick PSA: This is the etiquette board, where people read because they want to know the kindest, most pleasant way to behave to a great number of people.
Etiquette is based on many things, but usually constructed on equal measures of common sense and unselfish thought, and respect for other human beings. It's a pretty damned sturdy framework to build on.
Sometimes, an element of tradition is added into the construction, which isn't without value. Shared tradition, within any society, create stronger social bonds through shared human experience.
The number one rule of etiquette is Don't Be An Asshole. All other etiquette rules originate from this great grandmother of all etiquette rules.
It's not about frikking oyster forks and mindless formalities. It's about caring for and demonstrating respect for other human beings. Namaste, FFS.

Some days, I just really can't deal with the All About Me attitudes. Like today. I have interesting and fun things to do.

I absolutely LOVE the way you phrase your posts.

TrixieJess · May 2015

If someone other than my mother calls me, I wonder if someone is dead or seriously injured. The only time I get phone calls are from my mother because she cannot figure out how to text or if someone texts me and says, can I call you?

Like many of the above PPs, I don't answer the phone because I'm usually in the middle of 10 things and will call back when convenient. I write Thank You notes for everything though. I don't get the logic of "writing when convenient to me". Usually I do it on the bus on my way into or home from work because that's when I don't have a toddler trying to "help". Very convenient.

@notdoingitbythebook, just because it's the "norm" for you, doesn't seem to be the "norm" for the majority of people here. OP asked for advice and the majority seems to side with Thank You Notes.

notdoingitbythebook · May 2015

flantastic said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

STARMOON44 said:
I want a written thank you matter what. If you also want an intimate vocal connection with me, I don't see what that has to do with thanking me for a gift. Phone calls and coffee should already be a regular part of our relationship. If they aren't I'm not interested in you forcing the issue because I gave you a gift.
Does it have to be either or? What's wrong with both if phone calls and coffee are already part of the conversation?

Nothing. But as others have said, there's no reason to make a point of calling to thank. Just call people like you normally would, if that's a thing you do, and write your note, and if over the course of the phone call you feel the need to express your appreciation again, fine. But that's different than advocating "thank you phone calls."
ETA: If it's someone you should be calling, you don't need them to send you a gift to give you the "excuse" to call. You don't need an excuse. You call and talk because you want to talk, full stop.

Well of course. That's a given.

notdoingitbythebook · May 2015

redoryx said:

notdoingitbythebook said:
I think the issue is that a phone call is more convenient for YOU. You have no way of knowing that it's more convenient for the recipient. People often call when I'm in the middle of things. I can't tell you how many times the phone rings when I'm eating dinner, changing a diaper, in the bathroom or just have my hands full.

But I'll hold onto a thank you note for days / weeks / months / years.
Most people I know throw thank you notes out. I know I was in a group once and we did a poll and surprisingly most people threw them out. Some people kept them forever and forever but most don't. However I get what you're saying. Most people who get calls when they are busy call the person back. I thought that would be a given. I don't expect people to drop everything and talk. Good grief. However, in my family and with my friends we just return the calls afterward. I didn't realize that wasn't a global thing.

I don't answer the phone unless it's my sister, my parents, or my SO. And no, I don't always call people back unless they leave me a voicemail specifically asking me too. So, you call and I don't answer and you're either going to leave a thank you over voicemail which seems incredibly impersonal, or I'm going to send you a text asking what's up at which point you entire thank me via text or ask me to call you which is going to be annoying, but whatever, or you're going to keep calling me until I answer which will bug the crap out of me.

Earlier today I had to call my bank. I'm on the phone, on speaker phone with them, and at the same time I'm bouncing between writing an email, reading TK, reading blogs, etc. If I were to sit down and actually write a letter to my bank, I'd have to be solely focused on the task at hand. That's why I find letter writing to be far more personal than a phone call.

Fair enough. We all have our personal preferences.

Jen4948 · May 2015

notdoingitbythebook said:

Jen4948 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

novella1186 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

southernbelle0915 said:

mikenberger said:

notdoingitbythebook said:
@southernbelle0915 I feel that thank you notes are more impersonal because you don't have to make an effort to write them at a convenient time for the recipient, like you do a phone call or seeing them face to face. You can write thank you notes at any time that is convenient for you, like 2am when you can't sleep. A phone call is something you actually have to schedule and connect with the peson, something you don't do with a card. A card is lovely, absolutely. But getting a call from someone or seeing them face to face is just so much better.
What does it matter at what time you're writing the thank you note? You're taking the time to sit down, think about your words and put it onto paper. Then address it, stamp it and mail it. I don't see what sitting down at whatever time is convenient for you to write them has to do with how personable a thank you note is.
This. And also, the TY note recipient can open/read it whenever they want, so it's not like someone writes TY notes only because it's convenient for them. It's actually more convenient for the TY note recipient as well.
True enough. It can be more convenient for the recipient, though I know of few people who wait for a convenient time to open their mail. Everyone I know just opens it when they get it. But yes, I see what you're saying.
I'm another person who hates getting random phone calls from people I don't normally communicate with over the phone. I hate talking on the phone in general and usually don't answer at all, unless it's my aunt or best friend. So getting a phone call as a thank-you would be extra irritating and inconvenient to me. It wouldn't be a nice thing at all.

From my end, I had several wedding guests from other countries. The logistics of finding a time to call them-- given our extremely different time zones and work schedules-- and then having them pay for the long distance (because even if I'm the caller, charges apply to them too) just doesn't make sense at all. There's a reason written notes are the norm.

Yes. I can understand those logistical issues. Again, I did not say I wanted phone calls to become required, I said I prefer them. There's a difference. If I knew you and had to thank you, I would be disappointed that you would refuse to talk to me on the phone, so I would send you a thank you card. Or arrange a coffee date or something. I just prefer to contact people directly and to have people contact me directly for stuff like this. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this.
----------lost my box-----------------------------------------------

You would be disappointed in me? Then I would see no need to inconvenience you with a gift in the first place. I don't "refuse" to speak to people on the phone. It's just not my normal thing, so I keep my phone on silent (especially for my office) and usually don't even notice if I get a phone call, which isn't often anyways since everyone who knows me knows I don't like phone calls.

Not disappointed in you, just disappointed that you as a friend or family member wouldn't want to converse with someone that I would think (hope?) is near and dear. But hopefully I would know your preference and would not call you as that is your preference. My phone is always on silent in the office (ringtones are so annoying) but I see when calls come in. Really, this topic comes down to different strokes for different folks... and respecting those differences while maintaining what's expected.
You expect every friend and family member to be eagerly awaiting a call from you? What if, they're driving, sick, having an emergency, in the middle of work or errands, or just happen to be doing something else and aren't in the mood for any phone conversations, regardless of how "dear" you think they consider you? Expecting them to be automatically in the mood to converse with you, regardless of what else might be going on with them, will get you bounced from just about everyone's idea of who is "near and dear" to them.

Of course not. Good grief. Why is every so bloody black and white on this board? Does no one get a call and say "hey! Good to hear from you. I'm in the middle of something, can I call you back?" I had no idea this wasn't the norm. If someone's busy and can't talk, it's a given that they will call the person back. I had no idea I would have to explicitly explain that as a part of my answer to the question of preference from the OP.

No, it's not a given. There are times when people don't return calls. There could be any number of reasons why.

If you want to call them, fine-but etiquette-wise it does not free you from the obligation of sending a thank-you note for a gift you received.

notdoingitbythebook · May 2015

Jen4948 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

banana468 said:
I think the issue is that a phone call is more convenient for YOU. You have no way of knowing that it's more convenient for the recipient. People often call when I'm in the middle of things. I can't tell you how many times the phone rings when I'm eating dinner, changing a diaper, in the bathroom or just have my hands full.

But I'll hold onto a thank you note for days / weeks / months / years.
Most people I know throw thank you notes out. I know I was in a group once and we did a poll and surprisingly most people threw them out. Some people kept them forever and forever but most don't. However I get what you're saying. Most people who get calls when they are busy call the person back. I thought that would be a given. I don't expect people to drop everything and talk. Good grief. However, in my family and with my friends we just return the calls afterward. I didn't realize that wasn't a global thing.
No one has ever said you have to keep thank-you notes forever! It's okay for the recipients to throw them out, burn them, shred them, or whatever-but they still need to be written by the person who was given the gift-regardless of what the givers decide to do with them.

Yes. I know. That isn't the point of the question. The question was whether a thank you note is required on top of or in place of a card. I prefer getting a phone call or giving a phone call, others prefer a paper note. Since they are so engrained in wedding etiquette I'm writing them to everyone, even though I prefer something more intimate.

Jen4948 · May 2015

notdoingitbythebook said:

Jen4948 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

banana468 said:
I think the issue is that a phone call is more convenient for YOU. You have no way of knowing that it's more convenient for the recipient. People often call when I'm in the middle of things. I can't tell you how many times the phone rings when I'm eating dinner, changing a diaper, in the bathroom or just have my hands full.

But I'll hold onto a thank you note for days / weeks / months / years.
Most people I know throw thank you notes out. I know I was in a group once and we did a poll and surprisingly most people threw them out. Some people kept them forever and forever but most don't. However I get what you're saying. Most people who get calls when they are busy call the person back. I thought that would be a given. I don't expect people to drop everything and talk. Good grief. However, in my family and with my friends we just return the calls afterward. I didn't realize that wasn't a global thing.
No one has ever said you have to keep thank-you notes forever! It's okay for the recipients to throw them out, burn them, shred them, or whatever-but they still need to be written by the person who was given the gift-regardless of what the givers decide to do with them.

Yes. I know. That isn't the point of the question. The question was whether a thank you note is required on top of or in place of a card. I prefer getting a phone call or giving a phone call, others prefer a paper note. Since they are so engrained in wedding etiquette I'm writing them to everyone, even though I prefer something more intimate.

The bolded is the right thing to do. But they can be just as "intimate" as a phone call, depending on the content.

notdoingitbythebook · May 2015

ohannabelle said:
The whole "phone calls are more convenient" idea is pure frikking selfishness, masquerading as an "open minded" idea.
It is in no way convenient to get an unexpected phone call, for anybody but the caller who is just too lazy to be bothered writing a note. As for the bullshit about it being a wonderful time to have a personal conversation? If I care about someone enough to invite them to a wedding, I also make the effort to have personal conversations with them and stay in touch all year, every year. It's not a special occasion event for when they give me something.

It's the opposite of good etiquette, because it's a practice based on pure selfishness. Not what's best for other people.

(If you aren't close enough to someone to be in touch and informed about their life, I seriously question why they were invited.)

It's never inconvenient to get a nice letter. I love seeing happy stuff in the mailbox.
Nobody ever rolled their eyes and said, Ohmygod, I have to open an envelope right now?
Because they don't.

Good manners- thinking about other people and making an effort. It isn't about me.
Bad manners- it works for me. I like it. It's my opinion.

(A quick PSA: This is the etiquette board, where people read because they want to know the kindest, most pleasant way to behave to a great number of people.
Etiquette is based on many things, but usually constructed on equal measures of common sense and unselfish thought, and respect for other human beings. It's a pretty damned sturdy framework to build on.
Sometimes, an element of tradition is added into the construction, which isn't without value. Shared tradition, within any society, create stronger social bonds through shared human experience.
The number one rule of etiquette is Don't Be An Asshole. All other etiquette rules originate from this great grandmother of all etiquette rules.
It's not about frikking oyster forks and mindless formalities. It's about caring for and demonstrating respect for other human beings. Namaste, FFS.

Some days, I just really can't deal with the All About Me attitudes. Like today. I have interesting and fun things to do.

TrixieJess said:
If someone other than my mother calls me, I wonder if someone is dead or seriously injured. The only time I get phone calls are from my mother because she cannot figure out how to text or if someone texts me and says, can I call you?

Like many of the above PPs, I don't answer the phone because I'm usually in the middle of 10 things and will call back when convenient. I write Thank You notes for everything though. I don't get the logic of "writing when convenient to me". Usually I do it on the bus on my way into or home from work because that's when I don't have a toddler trying to "help". Very convenient.

@notdoingitbythebook, just because it's the "norm" for you, doesn't seem to be the "norm" for the majority of people here. OP asked for advice and the majority seems to side with Thank You Notes.

She asked for opinions and personal preferences. I stated my personal preference while stating that thank you notes are still expected. Not once did I say that she shouldn't write thank you notes. Not once did I say that *I* don't write thank you notes for wedding related stuff. It is so engrained in wedding etiquette, so they have to be done. I stated that from the very top. This group is different from any other group I have dealt with. I am used to a more mixed, less black and white opinion on this exact topic, so this is interesting and maddening at the same time to see that a personal opinion while still following the rules of etiquette is picked apart as if I am somehow breaking an etiquette rule.

notdoingitbythebook · May 2015

Jen4948 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

Jen4948 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

novella1186 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

southernbelle0915 said:

mikenberger said:

notdoingitbythebook said:
@southernbelle0915 I feel that thank you notes are more impersonal because you don't have to make an effort to write them at a convenient time for the recipient, like you do a phone call or seeing them face to face. You can write thank you notes at any time that is convenient for you, like 2am when you can't sleep. A phone call is something you actually have to schedule and connect with the peson, something you don't do with a card. A card is lovely, absolutely. But getting a call from someone or seeing them face to face is just so much better.
What does it matter at what time you're writing the thank you note? You're taking the time to sit down, think about your words and put it onto paper. Then address it, stamp it and mail it. I don't see what sitting down at whatever time is convenient for you to write them has to do with how personable a thank you note is.
This. And also, the TY note recipient can open/read it whenever they want, so it's not like someone writes TY notes only because it's convenient for them. It's actually more convenient for the TY note recipient as well.
True enough. It can be more convenient for the recipient, though I know of few people who wait for a convenient time to open their mail. Everyone I know just opens it when they get it. But yes, I see what you're saying.
I'm another person who hates getting random phone calls from people I don't normally communicate with over the phone. I hate talking on the phone in general and usually don't answer at all, unless it's my aunt or best friend. So getting a phone call as a thank-you would be extra irritating and inconvenient to me. It wouldn't be a nice thing at all.

From my end, I had several wedding guests from other countries. The logistics of finding a time to call them-- given our extremely different time zones and work schedules-- and then having them pay for the long distance (because even if I'm the caller, charges apply to them too) just doesn't make sense at all. There's a reason written notes are the norm.

Yes. I can understand those logistical issues. Again, I did not say I wanted phone calls to become required, I said I prefer them. There's a difference. If I knew you and had to thank you, I would be disappointed that you would refuse to talk to me on the phone, so I would send you a thank you card. Or arrange a coffee date or something. I just prefer to contact people directly and to have people contact me directly for stuff like this. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this.
----------lost my box-----------------------------------------------

You would be disappointed in me? Then I would see no need to inconvenience you with a gift in the first place. I don't "refuse" to speak to people on the phone. It's just not my normal thing, so I keep my phone on silent (especially for my office) and usually don't even notice if I get a phone call, which isn't often anyways since everyone who knows me knows I don't like phone calls.

Not disappointed in you, just disappointed that you as a friend or family member wouldn't want to converse with someone that I would think (hope?) is near and dear. But hopefully I would know your preference and would not call you as that is your preference. My phone is always on silent in the office (ringtones are so annoying) but I see when calls come in. Really, this topic comes down to different strokes for different folks... and respecting those differences while maintaining what's expected.
You expect every friend and family member to be eagerly awaiting a call from you? What if, they're driving, sick, having an emergency, in the middle of work or errands, or just happen to be doing something else and aren't in the mood for any phone conversations, regardless of how "dear" you think they consider you? Expecting them to be automatically in the mood to converse with you, regardless of what else might be going on with them, will get you bounced from just about everyone's idea of who is "near and dear" to them.

Of course not. Good grief. Why is every so bloody black and white on this board? Does no one get a call and say "hey! Good to hear from you. I'm in the middle of something, can I call you back?" I had no idea this wasn't the norm. If someone's busy and can't talk, it's a given that they will call the person back. I had no idea I would have to explicitly explain that as a part of my answer to the question of preference from the OP.

No, it's not a given. There are times when people don't return calls. There could be any number of reasons why.

If you want to call them, fine-but etiquette-wise it does not free you from the obligation of sending a thank-you note for a gift you received.

It's not a given that when someone calls you and you can't answer or talk at that moment that you won't call them back when you get the message? You're just supposed to leave them hanging? REALLY? On a board that is all about behaving properly and doing things "right" it floors me that someone would say that it's not proper to return a call that you've missed.

And I swear I am starting to feel like a broken record. I started in this thread by saying that I PREFER phone calls (since personal preferece was asked for) but that people should still write thank you cards because they are so deeply engrained in wedding culture and etiquette. It's probably one of the deepest engrained items in wedding etiquette. So please stop assuming that I have not or will not write wedding thank you notes. I rarely write them for anything outside the wedding, since they are not a norm in my circle or families.

redoryx · May 2015

notdoingitbythebook said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

Jen4948 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

novella1186 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

southernbelle0915 said:

mikenberger said:

notdoingitbythebook said:
@southernbelle0915 I feel that thank you notes are more impersonal because you don't have to make an effort to write them at a convenient time for the recipient, like you do a phone call or seeing them face to face. You can write thank you notes at any time that is convenient for you, like 2am when you can't sleep. A phone call is something you actually have to schedule and connect with the peson, something you don't do with a card. A card is lovely, absolutely. But getting a call from someone or seeing them face to face is just so much better.
What does it matter at what time you're writing the thank you note? You're taking the time to sit down, think about your words and put it onto paper. Then address it, stamp it and mail it. I don't see what sitting down at whatever time is convenient for you to write them has to do with how personable a thank you note is.
This. And also, the TY note recipient can open/read it whenever they want, so it's not like someone writes TY notes only because it's convenient for them. It's actually more convenient for the TY note recipient as well.
True enough. It can be more convenient for the recipient, though I know of few people who wait for a convenient time to open their mail. Everyone I know just opens it when they get it. But yes, I see what you're saying.
I'm another person who hates getting random phone calls from people I don't normally communicate with over the phone. I hate talking on the phone in general and usually don't answer at all, unless it's my aunt or best friend. So getting a phone call as a thank-you would be extra irritating and inconvenient to me. It wouldn't be a nice thing at all.

From my end, I had several wedding guests from other countries. The logistics of finding a time to call them-- given our extremely different time zones and work schedules-- and then having them pay for the long distance (because even if I'm the caller, charges apply to them too) just doesn't make sense at all. There's a reason written notes are the norm.

Yes. I can understand those logistical issues. Again, I did not say I wanted phone calls to become required, I said I prefer them. There's a difference. If I knew you and had to thank you, I would be disappointed that you would refuse to talk to me on the phone, so I would send you a thank you card. Or arrange a coffee date or something. I just prefer to contact people directly and to have people contact me directly for stuff like this. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this.
----------lost my box-----------------------------------------------

You would be disappointed in me? Then I would see no need to inconvenience you with a gift in the first place. I don't "refuse" to speak to people on the phone. It's just not my normal thing, so I keep my phone on silent (especially for my office) and usually don't even notice if I get a phone call, which isn't often anyways since everyone who knows me knows I don't like phone calls.

Not disappointed in you, just disappointed that you as a friend or family member wouldn't want to converse with someone that I would think (hope?) is near and dear. But hopefully I would know your preference and would not call you as that is your preference. My phone is always on silent in the office (ringtones are so annoying) but I see when calls come in. Really, this topic comes down to different strokes for different folks... and respecting those differences while maintaining what's expected.
You expect every friend and family member to be eagerly awaiting a call from you? What if, they're driving, sick, having an emergency, in the middle of work or errands, or just happen to be doing something else and aren't in the mood for any phone conversations, regardless of how "dear" you think they consider you? Expecting them to be automatically in the mood to converse with you, regardless of what else might be going on with them, will get you bounced from just about everyone's idea of who is "near and dear" to them.

Of course not. Good grief. Why is every so bloody black and white on this board? Does no one get a call and say "hey! Good to hear from you. I'm in the middle of something, can I call you back?" I had no idea this wasn't the norm. If someone's busy and can't talk, it's a given that they will call the person back. I had no idea I would have to explicitly explain that as a part of my answer to the question of preference from the OP.

No, it's not a given. There are times when people don't return calls. There could be any number of reasons why.

If you want to call them, fine-but etiquette-wise it does not free you from the obligation of sending a thank-you note for a gift you received.

It's not a given that when someone calls you and you can't answer or talk at that moment that you won't call them back when you get the message? You're just supposed to leave them hanging? REALLY? On a board that is all about behaving properly and doing things "right" it floors me that someone would say that it's not proper to return a call that you've missed.

And I swear I am starting to feel like a broken record. I started in this thread by saying that I PREFER phone calls (since personal preferece was asked for) but that people should still write thank you cards because they are so deeply engrained in wedding culture and etiquette. It's probably one of the deepest engrained items in wedding etiquette. So please stop assuming that I have not or will not write wedding thank you notes. I rarely write them for anything outside the wedding, since they are not a norm in my circle or families.

**boxes**

I don't care what the OP asked. This is an etiquette board. Your preference/opinion has no place here if it goes against Etiquette.

flantastic · May 2015

notdoingitbythebook said:

ohannabelle said:
The whole "phone calls are more convenient" idea is pure frikking selfishness, masquerading as an "open minded" idea.
It is in no way convenient to get an unexpected phone call, for anybody but the caller who is just too lazy to be bothered writing a note. As for the bullshit about it being a wonderful time to have a personal conversation? If I care about someone enough to invite them to a wedding, I also make the effort to have personal conversations with them and stay in touch all year, every year. It's not a special occasion event for when they give me something.

It's the opposite of good etiquette, because it's a practice based on pure selfishness. Not what's best for other people.

(If you aren't close enough to someone to be in touch and informed about their life, I seriously question why they were invited.)

It's never inconvenient to get a nice letter. I love seeing happy stuff in the mailbox.
Nobody ever rolled their eyes and said, Ohmygod, I have to open an envelope right now?
Because they don't.

Good manners- thinking about other people and making an effort. It isn't about me.
Bad manners- it works for me. I like it. It's my opinion.

(A quick PSA: This is the etiquette board, where people read because they want to know the kindest, most pleasant way to behave to a great number of people.
Etiquette is based on many things, but usually constructed on equal measures of common sense and unselfish thought, and respect for other human beings. It's a pretty damned sturdy framework to build on.
Sometimes, an element of tradition is added into the construction, which isn't without value. Shared tradition, within any society, create stronger social bonds through shared human experience.
The number one rule of etiquette is Don't Be An Asshole. All other etiquette rules originate from this great grandmother of all etiquette rules.
It's not about frikking oyster forks and mindless formalities. It's about caring for and demonstrating respect for other human beings. Namaste, FFS.

Some days, I just really can't deal with the All About Me attitudes. Like today. I have interesting and fun things to do.

TrixieJess said:
If someone other than my mother calls me, I wonder if someone is dead or seriously injured. The only time I get phone calls are from my mother because she cannot figure out how to text or if someone texts me and says, can I call you?

Like many of the above PPs, I don't answer the phone because I'm usually in the middle of 10 things and will call back when convenient. I write Thank You notes for everything though. I don't get the logic of "writing when convenient to me". Usually I do it on the bus on my way into or home from work because that's when I don't have a toddler trying to "help". Very convenient.

@notdoingitbythebook, just because it's the "norm" for you, doesn't seem to be the "norm" for the majority of people here. OP asked for advice and the majority seems to side with Thank You Notes.

She asked for opinions and personal preferences. I stated my personal preference while stating that thank you notes are still expected. Not once did I say that she shouldn't write thank you notes. Not once did I say that *I* don't write thank you notes for wedding related stuff. It is so engrained in wedding etiquette, so they have to be done. I stated that from the very top. This group is different from any other group I have dealt with. I am used to a more mixed, less black and white opinion on this exact topic, so this is interesting and maddening at the same time to see that a personal opinion while still following the rules of etiquette is picked apart as if I am somehow breaking an etiquette rule.

It is so ingrained in wedding etiquette because there is a valid reason for that - it is universally a convenient and grateful gesture, and so therefore makes the most sense to do. It's not just ingrained for the sake of being ingrained, which seems to be what you're trying to question. A phone call can be okay, but we're trying to explain why it's an inferior gesture to a phone call, and the reason isn't just "because that's the way it's done."

Jen4948 · May 2015

notdoingitbythebook said:

Jen4948 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

Jen4948 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

novella1186 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

southernbelle0915 said:

mikenberger said:

notdoingitbythebook said:
@southernbelle0915 I feel that thank you notes are more impersonal because you don't have to make an effort to write them at a convenient time for the recipient, like you do a phone call or seeing them face to face. You can write thank you notes at any time that is convenient for you, like 2am when you can't sleep. A phone call is something you actually have to schedule and connect with the peson, something you don't do with a card. A card is lovely, absolutely. But getting a call from someone or seeing them face to face is just so much better.
What does it matter at what time you're writing the thank you note? You're taking the time to sit down, think about your words and put it onto paper. Then address it, stamp it and mail it. I don't see what sitting down at whatever time is convenient for you to write them has to do with how personable a thank you note is.
This. And also, the TY note recipient can open/read it whenever they want, so it's not like someone writes TY notes only because it's convenient for them. It's actually more convenient for the TY note recipient as well.
True enough. It can be more convenient for the recipient, though I know of few people who wait for a convenient time to open their mail. Everyone I know just opens it when they get it. But yes, I see what you're saying.
I'm another person who hates getting random phone calls from people I don't normally communicate with over the phone. I hate talking on the phone in general and usually don't answer at all, unless it's my aunt or best friend. So getting a phone call as a thank-you would be extra irritating and inconvenient to me. It wouldn't be a nice thing at all.

From my end, I had several wedding guests from other countries. The logistics of finding a time to call them-- given our extremely different time zones and work schedules-- and then having them pay for the long distance (because even if I'm the caller, charges apply to them too) just doesn't make sense at all. There's a reason written notes are the norm.

Yes. I can understand those logistical issues. Again, I did not say I wanted phone calls to become required, I said I prefer them. There's a difference. If I knew you and had to thank you, I would be disappointed that you would refuse to talk to me on the phone, so I would send you a thank you card. Or arrange a coffee date or something. I just prefer to contact people directly and to have people contact me directly for stuff like this. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this.
----------lost my box-----------------------------------------------

You would be disappointed in me? Then I would see no need to inconvenience you with a gift in the first place. I don't "refuse" to speak to people on the phone. It's just not my normal thing, so I keep my phone on silent (especially for my office) and usually don't even notice if I get a phone call, which isn't often anyways since everyone who knows me knows I don't like phone calls.

Not disappointed in you, just disappointed that you as a friend or family member wouldn't want to converse with someone that I would think (hope?) is near and dear. But hopefully I would know your preference and would not call you as that is your preference. My phone is always on silent in the office (ringtones are so annoying) but I see when calls come in. Really, this topic comes down to different strokes for different folks... and respecting those differences while maintaining what's expected.
You expect every friend and family member to be eagerly awaiting a call from you? What if, they're driving, sick, having an emergency, in the middle of work or errands, or just happen to be doing something else and aren't in the mood for any phone conversations, regardless of how "dear" you think they consider you? Expecting them to be automatically in the mood to converse with you, regardless of what else might be going on with them, will get you bounced from just about everyone's idea of who is "near and dear" to them.

Of course not. Good grief. Why is every so bloody black and white on this board? Does no one get a call and say "hey! Good to hear from you. I'm in the middle of something, can I call you back?" I had no idea this wasn't the norm. If someone's busy and can't talk, it's a given that they will call the person back. I had no idea I would have to explicitly explain that as a part of my answer to the question of preference from the OP.

No, it's not a given. There are times when people don't return calls. There could be any number of reasons why.
If you want to call them, fine-but etiquette-wise it does not free you from the obligation of sending a thank-you note for a gift you received.

It's not a given that when someone calls you and you can't answer or talk at that moment that you won't call them back when you get the message? You're just supposed to leave them hanging? REALLY? On a board that is all about behaving properly and doing things "right" it floors me that someone would say that it's not proper to return a call that you've missed.

And I swear I am starting to feel like a broken record. I started in this thread by saying that I PREFER phone calls (since personal preferece was asked for) but that people should still write thank you cards because they are so deeply engrained in wedding culture and etiquette. It's probably one of the deepest engrained items in wedding etiquette. So please stop assuming that I have not or will not write wedding thank you notes. I rarely write them for anything outside the wedding, since they are not a norm in my circle or families.

I'm not making any such assumptions.

But not everyone is going to call someone back. Someone who doesn't call back isn't necessarily "leaving you hanging" because that's not always the reason it doesn't happen. Or when they do, it could be many days later, depending on what is going on with them and their phone service. Maybe they're keeping their line open because of an emergency. Maybe their telephone service is unreliable or something.

And just as you claim that in your circle people like to use the phone, outside your circle there are people who don't, who may not receive your message right away, and/or who may not be able to call you back right away.

[Deleted User] · May 2015

redoryx said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

Jen4948 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

novella1186 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

southernbelle0915 said:

mikenberger said:

notdoingitbythebook said:
@southernbelle0915 I feel that thank you notes are more impersonal because you don't have to make an effort to write them at a convenient time for the recipient, like you do a phone call or seeing them face to face. You can write thank you notes at any time that is convenient for you, like 2am when you can't sleep. A phone call is something you actually have to schedule and connect with the peson, something you don't do with a card. A card is lovely, absolutely. But getting a call from someone or seeing them face to face is just so much better.
What does it matter at what time you're writing the thank you note? You're taking the time to sit down, think about your words and put it onto paper. Then address it, stamp it and mail it. I don't see what sitting down at whatever time is convenient for you to write them has to do with how personable a thank you note is.
This. And also, the TY note recipient can open/read it whenever they want, so it's not like someone writes TY notes only because it's convenient for them. It's actually more convenient for the TY note recipient as well.
True enough. It can be more convenient for the recipient, though I know of few people who wait for a convenient time to open their mail. Everyone I know just opens it when they get it. But yes, I see what you're saying.
I'm another person who hates getting random phone calls from people I don't normally communicate with over the phone. I hate talking on the phone in general and usually don't answer at all, unless it's my aunt or best friend. So getting a phone call as a thank-you would be extra irritating and inconvenient to me. It wouldn't be a nice thing at all.

From my end, I had several wedding guests from other countries. The logistics of finding a time to call them-- given our extremely different time zones and work schedules-- and then having them pay for the long distance (because even if I'm the caller, charges apply to them too) just doesn't make sense at all. There's a reason written notes are the norm.

Yes. I can understand those logistical issues. Again, I did not say I wanted phone calls to become required, I said I prefer them. There's a difference. If I knew you and had to thank you, I would be disappointed that you would refuse to talk to me on the phone, so I would send you a thank you card. Or arrange a coffee date or something. I just prefer to contact people directly and to have people contact me directly for stuff like this. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this.
----------lost my box-----------------------------------------------

You would be disappointed in me? Then I would see no need to inconvenience you with a gift in the first place. I don't "refuse" to speak to people on the phone. It's just not my normal thing, so I keep my phone on silent (especially for my office) and usually don't even notice if I get a phone call, which isn't often anyways since everyone who knows me knows I don't like phone calls.

Not disappointed in you, just disappointed that you as a friend or family member wouldn't want to converse with someone that I would think (hope?) is near and dear. But hopefully I would know your preference and would not call you as that is your preference. My phone is always on silent in the office (ringtones are so annoying) but I see when calls come in. Really, this topic comes down to different strokes for different folks... and respecting those differences while maintaining what's expected.
You expect every friend and family member to be eagerly awaiting a call from you? What if, they're driving, sick, having an emergency, in the middle of work or errands, or just happen to be doing something else and aren't in the mood for any phone conversations, regardless of how "dear" you think they consider you? Expecting them to be automatically in the mood to converse with you, regardless of what else might be going on with them, will get you bounced from just about everyone's idea of who is "near and dear" to them.

Of course not. Good grief. Why is every so bloody black and white on this board? Does no one get a call and say "hey! Good to hear from you. I'm in the middle of something, can I call you back?" I had no idea this wasn't the norm. If someone's busy and can't talk, it's a given that they will call the person back. I had no idea I would have to explicitly explain that as a part of my answer to the question of preference from the OP.

No, it's not a given. There are times when people don't return calls. There could be any number of reasons why.
If you want to call them, fine-but etiquette-wise it does not free you from the obligation of sending a thank-you note for a gift you received.

It's not a given that when someone calls you and you can't answer or talk at that moment that you won't call them back when you get the message? You're just supposed to leave them hanging? REALLY? On a board that is all about behaving properly and doing things "right" it floors me that someone would say that it's not proper to return a call that you've missed.

And I swear I am starting to feel like a broken record. I started in this thread by saying that I PREFER phone calls (since personal preferece was asked for) but that people should still write thank you cards because they are so deeply engrained in wedding culture and etiquette. It's probably one of the deepest engrained items in wedding etiquette. So please stop assuming that I have not or will not write wedding thank you notes. I rarely write them for anything outside the wedding, since they are not a norm in my circle or families.

**boxes**

I don't care what the OP asked. This is an etiquette board. Your preference/opinion has no place here if it goes against Etiquette.

The problem with leaving a message and calling me back... Now I am calling You to receive my thank you. I give you a place setting of your china, have it shipped to your house. You receive it and are so excited that you pick up the phone and call me. I'm busy and don't answer. I call you back when I get the message. Me. "Hey, sorry I missed your call, what's up?" You. "I got the place setting you sent! Thanks!" Me. "Uh, you're welcome. It was on your registry, so, uh, I'm glad you like it. I'm glad it arrived. I didn't want to lug it to your wedding and I didn't want you to have to lug it home. Is that all you needed, because I really gotta get back to this stuff." You. "Well I wanted to talk, but if you're busy..." No, that sounds like a completely natural, not at all awkward conversation.

notdoingitbythebook · May 2015

redoryx said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

Jen4948 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

novella1186 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

southernbelle0915 said:

mikenberger said:

notdoingitbythebook said:
@southernbelle0915 I feel that thank you notes are more impersonal because you don't have to make an effort to write them at a convenient time for the recipient, like you do a phone call or seeing them face to face. You can write thank you notes at any time that is convenient for you, like 2am when you can't sleep. A phone call is something you actually have to schedule and connect with the peson, something you don't do with a card. A card is lovely, absolutely. But getting a call from someone or seeing them face to face is just so much better.
What does it matter at what time you're writing the thank you note? You're taking the time to sit down, think about your words and put it onto paper. Then address it, stamp it and mail it. I don't see what sitting down at whatever time is convenient for you to write them has to do with how personable a thank you note is.
This. And also, the TY note recipient can open/read it whenever they want, so it's not like someone writes TY notes only because it's convenient for them. It's actually more convenient for the TY note recipient as well.
True enough. It can be more convenient for the recipient, though I know of few people who wait for a convenient time to open their mail. Everyone I know just opens it when they get it. But yes, I see what you're saying.
I'm another person who hates getting random phone calls from people I don't normally communicate with over the phone. I hate talking on the phone in general and usually don't answer at all, unless it's my aunt or best friend. So getting a phone call as a thank-you would be extra irritating and inconvenient to me. It wouldn't be a nice thing at all.

From my end, I had several wedding guests from other countries. The logistics of finding a time to call them-- given our extremely different time zones and work schedules-- and then having them pay for the long distance (because even if I'm the caller, charges apply to them too) just doesn't make sense at all. There's a reason written notes are the norm.

Yes. I can understand those logistical issues. Again, I did not say I wanted phone calls to become required, I said I prefer them. There's a difference. If I knew you and had to thank you, I would be disappointed that you would refuse to talk to me on the phone, so I would send you a thank you card. Or arrange a coffee date or something. I just prefer to contact people directly and to have people contact me directly for stuff like this. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this.
----------lost my box-----------------------------------------------

You would be disappointed in me? Then I would see no need to inconvenience you with a gift in the first place. I don't "refuse" to speak to people on the phone. It's just not my normal thing, so I keep my phone on silent (especially for my office) and usually don't even notice if I get a phone call, which isn't often anyways since everyone who knows me knows I don't like phone calls.

Not disappointed in you, just disappointed that you as a friend or family member wouldn't want to converse with someone that I would think (hope?) is near and dear. But hopefully I would know your preference and would not call you as that is your preference. My phone is always on silent in the office (ringtones are so annoying) but I see when calls come in. Really, this topic comes down to different strokes for different folks... and respecting those differences while maintaining what's expected.
You expect every friend and family member to be eagerly awaiting a call from you? What if, they're driving, sick, having an emergency, in the middle of work or errands, or just happen to be doing something else and aren't in the mood for any phone conversations, regardless of how "dear" you think they consider you? Expecting them to be automatically in the mood to converse with you, regardless of what else might be going on with them, will get you bounced from just about everyone's idea of who is "near and dear" to them.

Of course not. Good grief. Why is every so bloody black and white on this board? Does no one get a call and say "hey! Good to hear from you. I'm in the middle of something, can I call you back?" I had no idea this wasn't the norm. If someone's busy and can't talk, it's a given that they will call the person back. I had no idea I would have to explicitly explain that as a part of my answer to the question of preference from the OP.

No, it's not a given. There are times when people don't return calls. There could be any number of reasons why.
If you want to call them, fine-but etiquette-wise it does not free you from the obligation of sending a thank-you note for a gift you received.

It's not a given that when someone calls you and you can't answer or talk at that moment that you won't call them back when you get the message? You're just supposed to leave them hanging? REALLY? On a board that is all about behaving properly and doing things "right" it floors me that someone would say that it's not proper to return a call that you've missed.

And I swear I am starting to feel like a broken record. I started in this thread by saying that I PREFER phone calls (since personal preferece was asked for) but that people should still write thank you cards because they are so deeply engrained in wedding culture and etiquette. It's probably one of the deepest engrained items in wedding etiquette. So please stop assuming that I have not or will not write wedding thank you notes. I rarely write them for anything outside the wedding, since they are not a norm in my circle or families.

**boxes**

I don't care what the OP asked. This is an etiquette board. Your preference/opinion has no place here if it goes against Etiquette.

That's very black and white thinking and shuts down a lot of discussion. Is there a reason why even discussion of an alternate to a rule of etiquette is shut down immediately and completely? Is no one interested in the intricacies of the rules rather than just following them blindly because those are the rules. I like to discuss things, I thought that was the point of discussion boards... not to just yell "THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT AND IF YOU DO NOT DO EXACTLY AS WE TELL YOU THEN YOU ARE A SELFISH UNGRATEFUL CLOD". Surely there can be a middle ground here where the rules of etiquette can be discussed instead of the constant immediate shut down when anything different is mentioned.

Again, just because I know I'll be eviscerated again (as it seems to be a point of enjoyment for posters). I have/will write wedding thank you notes even though I've either alraedy thanked the person effusely in person or have called them.

notdoingitbythebook · May 2015

Jen4948 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

Jen4948 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

Jen4948 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

novella1186 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

southernbelle0915 said:

mikenberger said:

notdoingitbythebook said:
@southernbelle0915 I feel that thank you notes are more impersonal because you don't have to make an effort to write them at a convenient time for the recipient, like you do a phone call or seeing them face to face. You can write thank you notes at any time that is convenient for you, like 2am when you can't sleep. A phone call is something you actually have to schedule and connect with the peson, something you don't do with a card. A card is lovely, absolutely. But getting a call from someone or seeing them face to face is just so much better.
What does it matter at what time you're writing the thank you note? You're taking the time to sit down, think about your words and put it onto paper. Then address it, stamp it and mail it. I don't see what sitting down at whatever time is convenient for you to write them has to do with how personable a thank you note is.
This. And also, the TY note recipient can open/read it whenever they want, so it's not like someone writes TY notes only because it's convenient for them. It's actually more convenient for the TY note recipient as well.
True enough. It can be more convenient for the recipient, though I know of few people who wait for a convenient time to open their mail. Everyone I know just opens it when they get it. But yes, I see what you're saying.
I'm another person who hates getting random phone calls from people I don't normally communicate with over the phone. I hate talking on the phone in general and usually don't answer at all, unless it's my aunt or best friend. So getting a phone call as a thank-you would be extra irritating and inconvenient to me. It wouldn't be a nice thing at all.

From my end, I had several wedding guests from other countries. The logistics of finding a time to call them-- given our extremely different time zones and work schedules-- and then having them pay for the long distance (because even if I'm the caller, charges apply to them too) just doesn't make sense at all. There's a reason written notes are the norm.

Yes. I can understand those logistical issues. Again, I did not say I wanted phone calls to become required, I said I prefer them. There's a difference. If I knew you and had to thank you, I would be disappointed that you would refuse to talk to me on the phone, so I would send you a thank you card. Or arrange a coffee date or something. I just prefer to contact people directly and to have people contact me directly for stuff like this. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this.
----------lost my box-----------------------------------------------

You would be disappointed in me? Then I would see no need to inconvenience you with a gift in the first place. I don't "refuse" to speak to people on the phone. It's just not my normal thing, so I keep my phone on silent (especially for my office) and usually don't even notice if I get a phone call, which isn't often anyways since everyone who knows me knows I don't like phone calls.

Not disappointed in you, just disappointed that you as a friend or family member wouldn't want to converse with someone that I would think (hope?) is near and dear. But hopefully I would know your preference and would not call you as that is your preference. My phone is always on silent in the office (ringtones are so annoying) but I see when calls come in. Really, this topic comes down to different strokes for different folks... and respecting those differences while maintaining what's expected.
You expect every friend and family member to be eagerly awaiting a call from you? What if, they're driving, sick, having an emergency, in the middle of work or errands, or just happen to be doing something else and aren't in the mood for any phone conversations, regardless of how "dear" you think they consider you? Expecting them to be automatically in the mood to converse with you, regardless of what else might be going on with them, will get you bounced from just about everyone's idea of who is "near and dear" to them.

Of course not. Good grief. Why is every so bloody black and white on this board? Does no one get a call and say "hey! Good to hear from you. I'm in the middle of something, can I call you back?" I had no idea this wasn't the norm. If someone's busy and can't talk, it's a given that they will call the person back. I had no idea I would have to explicitly explain that as a part of my answer to the question of preference from the OP.

No, it's not a given. There are times when people don't return calls. There could be any number of reasons why.
If you want to call them, fine-but etiquette-wise it does not free you from the obligation of sending a thank-you note for a gift you received.

It's not a given that when someone calls you and you can't answer or talk at that moment that you won't call them back when you get the message? You're just supposed to leave them hanging? REALLY? On a board that is all about behaving properly and doing things "right" it floors me that someone would say that it's not proper to return a call that you've missed.
And I swear I am starting to feel like a broken record. I started in this thread by saying that I PREFER phone calls (since personal preferece was asked for) but that people should still write thank you cards because they are so deeply engrained in wedding culture and etiquette. It's probably one of the deepest engrained items in wedding etiquette. So please stop assuming that I have not or will not write wedding thank you notes. I rarely write them for anything outside the wedding, since they are not a norm in my circle or families.

I'm not making any such assumptions.

But not everyone is going to call someone back.

And I think that's incredibly selfish and rude. Returning a call is basic common courtesy.

Jen4948 · May 2015

notdoingitbythebook said:

Jen4948 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

Jen4948 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

Jen4948 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

novella1186 said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

southernbelle0915 said:

mikenberger said:

notdoingitbythebook said:
@southernbelle0915 I feel that thank you notes are more impersonal because you don't have to make an effort to write them at a convenient time for the recipient, like you do a phone call or seeing them face to face. You can write thank you notes at any time that is convenient for you, like 2am when you can't sleep. A phone call is something you actually have to schedule and connect with the peson, something you don't do with a card. A card is lovely, absolutely. But getting a call from someone or seeing them face to face is just so much better.
What does it matter at what time you're writing the thank you note? You're taking the time to sit down, think about your words and put it onto paper. Then address it, stamp it and mail it. I don't see what sitting down at whatever time is convenient for you to write them has to do with how personable a thank you note is.
This. And also, the TY note recipient can open/read it whenever they want, so it's not like someone writes TY notes only because it's convenient for them. It's actually more convenient for the TY note recipient as well.
True enough. It can be more convenient for the recipient, though I know of few people who wait for a convenient time to open their mail. Everyone I know just opens it when they get it. But yes, I see what you're saying.
I'm another person who hates getting random phone calls from people I don't normally communicate with over the phone. I hate talking on the phone in general and usually don't answer at all, unless it's my aunt or best friend. So getting a phone call as a thank-you would be extra irritating and inconvenient to me. It wouldn't be a nice thing at all.

From my end, I had several wedding guests from other countries. The logistics of finding a time to call them-- given our extremely different time zones and work schedules-- and then having them pay for the long distance (because even if I'm the caller, charges apply to them too) just doesn't make sense at all. There's a reason written notes are the norm.

Yes. I can understand those logistical issues. Again, I did not say I wanted phone calls to become required, I said I prefer them. There's a difference. If I knew you and had to thank you, I would be disappointed that you would refuse to talk to me on the phone, so I would send you a thank you card. Or arrange a coffee date or something. I just prefer to contact people directly and to have people contact me directly for stuff like this. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this.
----------lost my box-----------------------------------------------

You would be disappointed in me? Then I would see no need to inconvenience you with a gift in the first place. I don't "refuse" to speak to people on the phone. It's just not my normal thing, so I keep my phone on silent (especially for my office) and usually don't even notice if I get a phone call, which isn't often anyways since everyone who knows me knows I don't like phone calls.

Not disappointed in you, just disappointed that you as a friend or family member wouldn't want to converse with someone that I would think (hope?) is near and dear. But hopefully I would know your preference and would not call you as that is your preference. My phone is always on silent in the office (ringtones are so annoying) but I see when calls come in. Really, this topic comes down to different strokes for different folks... and respecting those differences while maintaining what's expected.
You expect every friend and family member to be eagerly awaiting a call from you? What if, they're driving, sick, having an emergency, in the middle of work or errands, or just happen to be doing something else and aren't in the mood for any phone conversations, regardless of how "dear" you think they consider you? Expecting them to be automatically in the mood to converse with you, regardless of what else might be going on with them, will get you bounced from just about everyone's idea of who is "near and dear" to them.

Of course not. Good grief. Why is every so bloody black and white on this board? Does no one get a call and say "hey! Good to hear from you. I'm in the middle of something, can I call you back?" I had no idea this wasn't the norm. If someone's busy and can't talk, it's a given that they will call the person back. I had no idea I would have to explicitly explain that as a part of my answer to the question of preference from the OP.

No, it's not a given. There are times when people don't return calls. There could be any number of reasons why.
If you want to call them, fine-but etiquette-wise it does not free you from the obligation of sending a thank-you note for a gift you received.

It's not a given that when someone calls you and you can't answer or talk at that moment that you won't call them back when you get the message? You're just supposed to leave them hanging? REALLY? On a board that is all about behaving properly and doing things "right" it floors me that someone would say that it's not proper to return a call that you've missed.
And I swear I am starting to feel like a broken record. I started in this thread by saying that I PREFER phone calls (since personal preferece was asked for) but that people should still write thank you cards because they are so deeply engrained in wedding culture and etiquette. It's probably one of the deepest engrained items in wedding etiquette. So please stop assuming that I have not or will not write wedding thank you notes. I rarely write them for anything outside the wedding, since they are not a norm in my circle or families.

I'm not making any such assumptions.
But not everyone is going to call someone back.

And I think that's incredibly selfish and rude. Returning a call is basic common courtesy.

Read my edited post. I think your attitude is incredibly selfish and rude. Sometimes people can't return calls for reasons that are not selfish or rude at all.

thisismynickname2 · May 2015

redoryx said:
I think the issue is that a phone call is more convenient for YOU. You have no way of knowing that it's more convenient for the recipient. People often call when I'm in the middle of things. I can't tell you how many times the phone rings when I'm eating dinner, changing a diaper, in the bathroom or just have my hands full.

But I'll hold onto a thank you note for days / weeks / months / years.

Most people I know throw thank you notes out. I know I was in a group once and we did a poll and surprisingly most people threw them out. Some people kept them forever and forever but most don't. However I get what you're saying. Most people who get calls when they are busy call the person back. I thought that would be a given. I don't expect people to drop everything and talk. Good grief. However, in my family and with my friends we just return the calls afterward. I didn't realize that wasn't a global thing.

I don't answer the phone unless it's my sister, my parents, or my SO. And no, I don't always call people back unless they leave me a voicemail specifically asking me too. So, you call and I don't answer and you're either going to leave a thank you over voicemail which seems incredibly impersonal, or I'm going to send you a text asking what's up at which point you entire thank me via text or ask me to call you which is going to be annoying, but whatever, or you're going to keep calling me until I answer which will bug the crap out of me.

Earlier today I had to call my bank. I'm on the phone, on speaker phone with them, and at the same time I'm bouncing between writing an email, reading TK, reading blogs, etc. If I were to sit down and actually write a letter to my bank, I'd have to be solely focused on the task at hand. That's why I find letter writing to be far more personal than a phone call.

To the bolded: totally agree with this. I like having the thank-you note as a keepsake of the special event that warranted the gift. I love cards of all kinds and keep every card I get. Even if I gave the couple cash, a note thanking me for my generosity or even going so far as to say they used it for an excursion on their honeymoon, that would be special. A phone call for the sole purpose of thanking for a gift is a fleeting and probably awkward moment in time.

notdoingitbythebook · May 2015

flantastic said:

notdoingitbythebook said:

ohannabelle said:
The whole "phone calls are more convenient" idea is pure frikking selfishness, masquerading as an "open minded" idea.
It is in no way convenient to get an unexpected phone call, for anybody but the caller who is just too lazy to be bothered writing a note. As for the bullshit about it being a wonderful time to have a personal conversation? If I care about someone enough to invite them to a wedding, I also make the effort to have personal conversations with them and stay in touch all year, every year. It's not a special occasion event for when they give me something.

It's the opposite of good etiquette, because it's a practice based on pure selfishness. Not what's best for other people.

(If you aren't close enough to someone to be in touch and informed about their life, I seriously question why they were invited.)

It's never inconvenient to get a nice letter. I love seeing happy stuff in the mailbox.
Nobody ever rolled their eyes and said, Ohmygod, I have to open an envelope right now?
Because they don't.

Good manners- thinking about other people and making an effort. It isn't about me.
Bad manners- it works for me. I like it. It's my opinion.

(A quick PSA: This is the etiquette board, where people read because they want to know the kindest, most pleasant way to behave to a great number of people.
Etiquette is based on many things, but usually constructed on equal measures of common sense and unselfish thought, and respect for other human beings. It's a pretty damned sturdy framework to build on.
Sometimes, an element of tradition is added into the construction, which isn't without value. Shared tradition, within any society, create stronger social bonds through shared human experience.
The number one rule of etiquette is Don't Be An Asshole. All other etiquette rules originate from this great grandmother of all etiquette rules.
It's not about frikking oyster forks and mindless formalities. It's about caring for and demonstrating respect for other human beings. Namaste, FFS.

Some days, I just really can't deal with the All About Me attitudes. Like today. I have interesting and fun things to do.

TrixieJess said:
If someone other than my mother calls me, I wonder if someone is dead or seriously injured. The only time I get phone calls are from my mother because she cannot figure out how to text or if someone texts me and says, can I call you?

Like many of the above PPs, I don't answer the phone because I'm usually in the middle of 10 things and will call back when convenient. I write Thank You notes for everything though. I don't get the logic of "writing when convenient to me". Usually I do it on the bus on my way into or home from work because that's when I don't have a toddler trying to "help". Very convenient.

@notdoingitbythebook, just because it's the "norm" for you, doesn't seem to be the "norm" for the majority of people here. OP asked for advice and the majority seems to side with Thank You Notes.

She asked for opinions and personal preferences. I stated my personal preference while stating that thank you notes are still expected. Not once did I say that she shouldn't write thank you notes. Not once did I say that *I* don't write thank you notes for wedding related stuff. It is so engrained in wedding etiquette, so they have to be done. I stated that from the very top. This group is different from any other group I have dealt with. I am used to a more mixed, less black and white opinion on this exact topic, so this is interesting and maddening at the same time to see that a personal opinion while still following the rules of etiquette is picked apart as if I am somehow breaking an etiquette rule.
It is so ingrained in wedding etiquette because there is a valid reason for that - it is universally a convenient and grateful gesture, and so therefore makes the most sense to do. It's not just ingrained for the sake of being ingrained, which seems to be what you're trying to question. A phone call can be okay, but we're trying to explain why it's an inferior gesture to a phone call, and the reason isn't just "because that's the way it's done."

A thank you is a thank you is a thank you. Whether it's in person, by phone, by carrier pigeon, by singing telegram, by sky writing, by card. The point is when you receive a gift, you thank the giver. The emphasis on the method is what has never made sense to me. You give me a gift, I thank you. If I write it down on a piece of paper or give you a big hug and say thank you or whether I call you on the phone, it shouldn't matter. I have thanked you fully and completely. There is no logical reason why your piece of paper makes my thank you more genuine or superiour to my preference of calling someone or thanking them in person. The only difference is the method of delivery. That's it. What's said in a thank you card is probably pretty damn close to what I would tell you in person. The only reason why thank you cards are considered more acceptable in some circles is because that is how it's always been done. It's a simple and as complicated as that.

It really comes down to the fact that everyone should be thanked for wedding gifts. The traditional method is via writing that thank you on a pretty piece of folded paper stuck in an envelope and posted. I believe there are other, more direct ways to thank people for their gifts or help with the wedding. That's it. That's all.

LD1970 · May 2015

I'm fairly certain "notdoingitbythebook" just likes to antagonize.

notdoingitbythebook · May 2015

LD1970 said:
I'm fairly certain "notdoingitbythebook" just likes to antagonize.

I'm fairly certain you are very wrong. I like discussion, not just taking something at face value because that's just how it is. Surely we can discuss the rules of etiquette, not just enforce them on this board. Message boards are about discussion, no?

LD1970 · May 2015

Generally, yes. Give me a good political debate, and I've been rolling up my sleeves and getting into it since pre-internet 1992. But a lot of your "discussion" really just sounds like whatever the generally accepted way is, you're going to take an opposing stance. I know people who are contrary just for the sake of being contrary, and that's how you read to me.

notdoingitbythebook · May 2015

LD1970 said:
Generally, yes. Give me a good political debate, and I've been rolling up my sleeves and getting into it since pre-internet 1992. But a lot of your "discussion" really just sounds like whatever the generally accepted way is, you're going to take an opposing stance. I know people who are contrary just for the sake of being contrary, and that's how you read to me.

I write thank you notes even though they are not my preference for thanking someone, I just don't think they are more valid or more genuine than any other way of thanking someone for something they've done or given me. The point is to thank. If that means sending a thank you note, fantastic. If that means thanking them in person, great. On the phone? Great. With a bundt cake? Great. The fact that etiquette dictates that NOTES are the expected way does not make my preference to personally thank someone any less valid. It's just a different method. That's all I'm saying. I have and will use thank you notes. Not my number one choice, but they happen. If that's your favourite way to do it, awesome. Go for it. Everyone loves to receive mai. All I am saying is that a thank you is a thank you is a thank you. Being sure to thank someone is more important than the method used.

NowIAmSyp · May 2015

LD1970 said:
Generally, yes. Give me a good political debate, and I've been rolling up my sleeves and getting into it since pre-internet 1992. But a lot of your "discussion" really just sounds like whatever the generally accepted way is, you're going to take an opposing stance. I know people who are contrary just for the sake of being contrary, and that's how you read to me.

YES. This. QFT

southernbelle0915 · May 2015

notdoingitbythebook said:

LD1970 said:
I'm fairly certain "notdoingitbythebook" just likes to antagonize.

I'm fairly certain you are very wrong. I like discussion, not just taking something at face value because that's just how it is. Surely we can discuss the rules of etiquette, not just enforce them on this board. Message boards are about discussion, no?

The difference here is that you are basically thread-jacking the OP's thread to hop up on a soapbox and say that thank you notes are impersonal so you prefer a phone call. And then continue for 2 pages with exhausting nonsense. You have done this on almost every thread you've posted to and it's getting to be trolling garbage.

Actual etiquette is to write a TY note for gifts given. That's the cold hard truth.

If you want to re-write the book, go write a book then. But discussions here are not for thread-jacking and/or trolling.

Thank You Note vs. Thank You Phone Call....thoughts?

Re: Thank You Note vs. Thank You Phone Call....thoughts?

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