So here are a couple nightmares

STARMOON44 · November 2018

https://www.wealthsimple.com/en-us/magazine/money-diary-couple-debt-us

W.H.A.T.

and also for the creepy story fans:
https://www.thecut.com/2018/11/the-haunting-of-657-boulevard-in-westfield-new-jersey.html

mrsconn23 · November 2018

I had to stop reading through the first story because my eyes would not stop rolling. I mean, we're not perfect with money...but the amount of justification these people make for every bad decision is mind-bottling.

banana468 · November 2018

I'm so glad that I married the man I did and we live within our means. I read the first story and didn't yell and consider that a major accomplishment.

All of this screams that they didn't know how to budget at all and they're terrible at problem solving.

I'll take 30 year old wood paneling on my family room walls if it means I'm not bleeding debt out my eyeballs.

short+sassy · November 2018

Soooo, does Tom and Kate expect people to feel bad for them because they can't manage to "make ends meet" on over $160K/year?

And I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that despite their "woe is me and life is so hard", they've never actually sat down and spent 30 minutes figuring out a monthly budget of their income vs. bills. Because, if they had, they could have told the author exactly how much their debt is. Exactly where their money is going and how much their monthly shortfall is. I seriously doubt they even have a shortfall. They just spend so mindlessly, it feels like they do. Despite the protestations they buy clothes at Goodwill.

Let's see. They buy their groceries at Whole Foods. Where apparently EACH member of the family spends $15-$20 for dinner. Mmmmkay.

It reminds me of tenants I had, who rented the other side of my personal duplex, that were always late on rent...and ended up stiffing me big time in the end...with a "bad luck/financial calamity" excuse every, single month. But came home with two of those extra giant McD bags of food almost every day. And on the weekends it was giant McD bags for breakfast and dinner.

Yes, I'm sure it is hard to pay for the rental services I'm providing when one is spending $100s/week at McD.

banana468 · November 2018

short+sassy said:

Soooo, does Tom and Kate expect people to feel bad for them because they can't manage to "make ends meet" on over $160K/year?
And I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that despite their "woe is me and life is so hard", they've never actually sat down and spent 30 minutes figuring out a monthly budget of their income vs. bills. Because, if they had, they could have told the author exactly how much their debt is. Exactly where their money is going and how much their monthly shortfall is. I seriously doubt they even have a shortfall. They just spend so mindlessly, it feels like they do. Despite the protestations they buy clothes at Goodwill.
Let's see. They buy their groceries at Whole Foods. Where apparently EACH member of the family spends $15-$20 for dinner. Mmmmkay.
It reminds me of tenants I had, who rented the other side of my personal duplex, that were always late on rent...and ended up stiffing me big time in the end...with a "bad luck/financial calamity" excuse every, single month. But came home with two of those extra giant McD bags of food almost every day. And on the weekends it was giant McD bags for breakfast and dinner.
Yes, I'm sure it is hard to pay for the rental services I'm providing when one is spending $100s/week at McD.

I'm sorry but if you can't say no to your son's $15 sushi habit you're not just terrible with money but you're a shitty parent.

These are people who have the means of figuring things out and just choose not to. Instead they ask aging parents for help while they simply make piss poor financial choices.

Also, the "we don't drive new cars" while they lease and he drives a 2012 Corolla. Give me a fucking break.

This is keeping up with the Joneses-itis.

short+sassy · November 2018

banana468 said:

I'm sorry but if you can't say no to your son's $15 sushi habit you're not just terrible with money but you're a shitty parent.

These are people who have the means of figuring things out and just choose not to. Instead they ask aging parents for help while they simply make piss poor financial choices.

Also, the "we don't drive new cars" while they lease and he drives a 2012 Corolla. Give me a fucking break.

This is keeping up with the Joneses-itis.

I didn't even catch this. But, if they lease, then AREN'T they driving a new car every time they are ready for another vehicle? Because dealerships don't start a new lease with used cars. At least I don't think they do.

banana468 · November 2018

short+sassy said:

banana468 said:

I'm sorry but if you can't say no to your son's $15 sushi habit you're not just terrible with money but you're a shitty parent.

These are people who have the means of figuring things out and just choose not to. Instead they ask aging parents for help while they simply make piss poor financial choices.

Also, the "we don't drive new cars" while they lease and he drives a 2012 Corolla. Give me a fucking break.

This is keeping up with the Joneses-itis.

I didn't even catch this. But, if they lease, then AREN'T they driving a new car every time they are ready for another vehicle? Because dealerships don't start a new lease with used cars. At least I don't think they do.

My understanding is that they don't. And leasing is a pretty damn terrible way to spend your money and a 2012 may not be new but it's not old!

climbingsingle · November 2018

Hoooooly shit. That first story. I cannot comprehend HOW they could let it get that bad. And to take money from her parents, but then end up in so much debt again!?!? Building a house, sending their kids to private school, shopping at WF. Ridiculous.

short+sassy · November 2018

banana468 said:

short+sassy said:

banana468 said:

I'm sorry but if you can't say no to your son's $15 sushi habit you're not just terrible with money but you're a shitty parent.

These are people who have the means of figuring things out and just choose not to. Instead they ask aging parents for help while they simply make piss poor financial choices.

Also, the "we don't drive new cars" while they lease and he drives a 2012 Corolla. Give me a fucking break.

This is keeping up with the Joneses-itis.

I didn't even catch this. But, if they lease, then AREN'T they driving a new car every time they are ready for another vehicle? Because dealerships don't start a new lease with used cars. At least I don't think they do.

My understanding is that they don't. And leasing is a pretty damn terrible way to spend your money and a 2012 may not be new but it's not old!

Right! So they don't "buy" new cars. They "lease" new cars. Which is even worse, lol.

But I guess we're supposed to be impressed at how thrifty they are that they only lease a new car every 5-6 years instead of every 1-2 years ((slow hand clap)).

I had a coworker years ago who would lease a luxury vehicle every couple years. First, it was a BMW. Don't know the specific model, but a passenger vehicle. Then it was a Cadillac Escalade. I don't mean this in a bad way, but I'd never known anyone like that! However, she was single, no kids, and seemed to be able to comfortably afford it. Not how I would choose to spend a good chunk of my disposable income but, if a fine vehicle was her indulgence, more power to her!

banana468 · November 2018

short+sassy said:

banana468 said:

short+sassy said:

banana468 said:

I'm sorry but if you can't say no to your son's $15 sushi habit you're not just terrible with money but you're a shitty parent.

These are people who have the means of figuring things out and just choose not to. Instead they ask aging parents for help while they simply make piss poor financial choices.

Also, the "we don't drive new cars" while they lease and he drives a 2012 Corolla. Give me a fucking break.

This is keeping up with the Joneses-itis.

I didn't even catch this. But, if they lease, then AREN'T they driving a new car every time they are ready for another vehicle? Because dealerships don't start a new lease with used cars. At least I don't think they do.

My understanding is that they don't. And leasing is a pretty damn terrible way to spend your money and a 2012 may not be new but it's not old!

Right! So they don't "buy" new cars. They "lease" new cars. Which is even worse, lol.
But I guess we're supposed to be impressed at how thrifty they are that they only lease a new car every 5-6 years instead of every 1-2 years ((slow hand clap)).
I had a coworker years ago who would lease a luxury vehicle every couple years. First, it was a BMW. Don't know the specific model, but a passenger vehicle. Then it was a Cadillac Escalade. I don't mean this in a bad way, but I'd never known anyone like that! However, she was single, no kids, and seemed to be able to comfortably afford it. Not how I would choose to spend a good chunk of my disposable income but, if a fine vehicle was her indulgence, more power to her!

Right. I don't care if you lease a car if that's how you feel like spending your money. But generally, leasing is not something you do to make financial sense. At all.

We have 3 cars including our toy. The YOUNGEST one that we have is my minivan that's a 2011. And we have no debt other than the two mortgages because we're landlords and own a condo plus our home.

I want to yell at those people and tell them that they need to take responsibility for their decisions.

********

Just yesterday in the car Chiquita said, "Mom I don't want to go to the same camp this summer because I got in trouble and the people there made me make bad choices."

Somehow the car didn't run off the road and I quickly told my almost 8 yo that the only person to blame for her bad choices was HERSELF.

charlotte989875 · November 2018

I stopped when I saw “dog” coming up. Nope. Couldn’t get through anymore.

I worry about our our student loan debt and I still have some $ on a CC that stresses me out but this is next level.

ei34 · November 2018

I’m stressed just reading about Kate and Tom. Even though they explained how they got here I still don’t get it. Like them, H and I are in a Northeastern city, making a similar combined income with three kids. We both take on side gigs often and we stay within our means (coupons when shopping, haven’t been on a plane since our 2013 honeymoon, etc.), and we’re big on saving for our retirement and college, so the part about borrowing from his 401(k) really hurt to read. No CC or student loan debt though. Mortgage aside, we’re buy-what-you-can-afford people.

The need to keep up with the Jones’s is especially cringe worthy. And Kate’s mom bailing them out after working so hard her whole life (still working!) only for them to squander it. This was a painful read.

lovesclimbing · November 2018

Ugh. I just can't even with that.

"We had money so we had a really good Christmas that year." What? THAT'S your decision making process?! We have it so we'll just spend it on a "good Christmas"?

And then the whole thing about "oh, we have three kids and HAVE to have a four bedroom." Ugh, whatever happened to kids sharing bedrooms? I guess it makes sense since they're the kind of parents who let their kid have $15 of sushi for dinner all the time!

ETA: I get that Dave Ramsey isn't always super popular, and I think his no credit cards, period, advice is a little bit unrealistic, but this why he gives it! Because there are so many people out there who just can't handle them. These people need to cut up their credit cards yesterday, and not have any until at least 5 years after they are debt free except for the mortgage.

levioosa · November 2018

Jesus. I’m not as financially wise as I should be and I’m going to drown in student loan debt soon, but this couple makes me seem like a financial guru.

That second story was so sad. I can only imagine how they felt. We got a letter once that was threatening. I’m still a little scared. It wasn’t meant to be directed at us, it was either meant for the previous tenants or to the drugged out neighbors. But still. Not exactly comforting when you move into a new house. And I doubt the people who wrote it would have stopped to consider that we were not the intended audience.

LondonLisa · November 2018

It’s just proof that you can’t shame the shameless. They know what they are doing is wrong, they don’t care. They have zero guilt about taking their mothers life savings. And they are only shamed when it affects them (bankruptcies and job applications). One savvy close friend and a weekend could have them sorted out on a payment plan.

also, how the eff do these people keep getting credit?! At this point it’s usury.

ernursej · November 2018

People like Tom and Kate are the reason I volunteer at a credit counselling center. I think the problem with some debt consolidation places are that they make the issue disappear but don't work with the individual or couple to relearn how to manage their money and make good decisions.

I've been working with a couple for a few months now and I only really saw an ah-ha moment at our last session. She talked about how she saw value in not purchasing something she saw because there was more value in something she wanted and was saving for.

Disclaimer, I've never worked with someone as bad as Tom and Kate but some come in and they are one bill away from a heart attack or homelessness.

I think the best way to combat these stories are to be more open and honest with money. People don't understand where it comes from or how to manage it because it is "supposed to be private". If people would start saying, "I can't afford to go out to the fancy dinner place, but would you like to come over to my home instead and we can still enjoy the company", the world would be so much better.

maine7mob · November 2018

These people don't just need a financial counselor, they need a psychiatric counselor to straighten out their thinking. So they live in an upscale neighborhood they can't afford, but the schools are so crappy they have to send their kids to private school? How does that make sense to them? And what do they think will happen to their kids' financial educations if they persist in lying to them by buying them sushi and other things they can't afford? Those kids are going to grow up entitled and without any sense of what a dollar is worth.

One of the worst things you can do to a kid is to teach them that affluence is so valuable it's worth faking. Most of the white collar crime in this world is committed by people who believe this.

So here are a couple nightmares

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