All this and that's your question? (But yay supportive mom!)

mrsconn23 · April 2019

Dear Prudence,

My teenage daughter came out as a lesbian a couple of years ago and then started dating her best friend. That friend has since come out as a trans guy and is now my daughter’s boyfriend. As a lesbian, my daughter is having a hard time navigating this change. She loves her partner very much and is seeking my advice about whether they should stay together. They’re relatively young teens who aren’t sexually active. (We talk candidly about these things.) Before they started dating, they were also physically affectionate, sometimes holding hands or cuddling during movies, so really the only physical change in their relationship after they became a couple was that they started kissing. While I see subtle signs of my daughter distancing herself, I think that since she isn’t sure yet, she should stay in the relationship until she knows what she really wants. I’m afraid that breaking up with her boyfriend at this fragile time of self-discovery could be especially hard on him and perhaps jeopardize their friendship. Of course, if or when my daughter decides that going back to being besties is what she wants, I’ll fully support her—and her boyfriend—through any difficulties. I want to help, but I know I’m playing catch-up on her sexuality. Can a lesbian date a trans male and remain lesbian?

—Perplexed Cis Mom

banana468 · April 2019

Forget the labels. Focus on your daughter's mental health and happiness here.

I'd also consider talking with the other parents in the hopes that they are supportive too. That's a lot to go through at any age but particularly when you're immersed in adolescence and may be with other kids your age who aren't supportive.

Long term - don't stay in a relationship because it's not mutually beneficial. This sounds like it may run its course. But they can learn how to navigate this new journey as friends.

VarunaTT · April 2019

This is a really hard thing. I've had multiple friends go through this. Some of them have stayed with lesbian, some of them have started using bisexual...and this is honestly why I like "queer" as the umbrella. It's not anyone's business the sexual orientation/gender IDs of a couple and making it all match up with words we haven't come up with yet. "Queer" lets you get there w/out uncomfortable conversations that nobody has the right to know. (side note: non community members, DO NOT use queer for something until the LGBTQ+ person says it first. It's a reclaimed term and there are plenty of community members who still loathe it).

K has also struggled with this. As an NB person, when sexuality descriptions are tied to your gender descriptors (homo-, hetero-, and bi-), where do they fit in? I think for right now, they've settled on sapphic, b/c they are attracted to femininity specifically (and they nixed gynephilia b/c it just sounds too horrible and even with educating someone, it still sounds horrible). The community is working on the words to start separating our sexuality from our gender IDs, but it's going to be a long and hard process.

There's not a right answer for LW and it's not really for LW to figure out. LW is doing a good job of supporting and being there for her daughter. Continue to listen. Maybe find some resources like an LGBTQ+ youth group for her daughter. The simple part is "yes, a lesbian can date a transman and that person gets to call themselves whatever they want until we come up with better words."

charlotte989875 · April 2019

I think what you don’t do is teach your daughter to stay in a relationship with anyone because of how hard it might be for the other person. That is straight up telling her that her feelings/needs/wants about not being with someone should be subordinated to the other person.

ShesSoCold · April 2019

charlotte989875 said:

I think what you don’t do is teach your daughter to stay in a relationship with anyone because of how hard it might be for the other person. That is straight up telling her that her feelings/needs/wants about not being with someone should be subordinated to the other person.

This is exactly what I was thinking when I read the letter and I was struggling to put it into words. Thank you.

I was shocked that the mom was putting the other child's feelings above her own daughter's.

Makes me wonder if Mom here isn't as okay with her daughter not being straight as she originally thought and the thought of her daughter being with a trans man is easier for her than the thought of her daughter being with a woman.

VarunaTT · April 2019

ShesSoCold said:

Makes me wonder if Mom here isn't as okay with her daughter not being straight as she originally thought and the thought of her daughter being with a trans man is easier for her than the thought of her daughter being with a woman.

I don't think that's true. Visible transgender people are a great thing for society, IMHO; it means we are also all learning how to deal with and create language for gender ID and sexual orientation scenarios. I can see how mom doesn't want to negate the other person's gender identity, especially since this person is her daughter BFF, I assume he is close with their entire family in a way, and how she doesn't necessarily know how to do that while also supporting her daughter. Basically, she doesn't want to come off as transphobic, is the way I read it.

Transman also might no longer identify as a lesbian either. He is now struck trying to figure out if he goes by straight? (Another reason I like queer). One of my friends, who is also trans, was nice enough to discuss her journey with me, that she knew she wasn't gay pre-transition, b/c she imagined herself with a man and felt nothing. She even admitted she felt a bit of revulsion she's a bit embarrassed by now. But now that she is post transition, she dates mostly men. She said once she had her gender identity figured out, she realized she was attracted to men because the picture in her head was right.

All to say, I think LW's questions are alright to be asked, but I hope she's guided back into, "this isn't for you to answer, just support your daughter." I do also like the point of not teaching your daughter to subjugate her feelings, even if it's an uncomfortable situation.

short+sassy · April 2019

I think the mother needs to just keep on, keeping on. Continue listening to her daughter and being supportive. Including not trying to sway her daughter away from a breakup, if that is what the daughter feels is best for herself.

You can tell the mother likes and is supportive of her daughter's SO. Which is great also. But someone begrudgingly in a relationship with some else "for their own good" is detrimental to both parties.

I was really surprised to see the mother's assumption that, in the event of a breakup, the daughter and her SO would just naturally step down to being BFFs again. Whhaattt! Not usually. Especially with such young people. I suppose anything's possible, but it's unlikely and probably not emotionally healthy for either of them, at least not right away. So I hope the mother wouldn't go pushing for that either.

STARMOON44 · April 2019

I don’t think this is really about sexuality at all, in terms of moms support. Allmom needs to do is remind daughter that who she dates is entirely up to her and that she gets to make that choice selfishly, looking to her own best interests, as long as she treats people with kindness and respect.

ILoveBeachMusic · April 2019

VarunaTT said:

This is a really hard thing. I've had multiple friends go through this. Some of them have stayed with lesbian, some of them have started using bisexual...and this is honestly why I like "queer" as the umbrella. It's not anyone's business the sexual orientation/gender IDs of a couple and making it all match up with words we haven't come up with yet. "Queer" lets you get there w/out uncomfortable conversations that nobody has the right to know. (side note: non community members, DO NOT use queer for something until the LGBTQ+ person says it first. It's a reclaimed term and there are plenty of community members who still loathe it).

K has also struggled with this. As an NB person, when sexuality descriptions are tied to your gender descriptors (homo-, hetero-, and bi-), where do they fit in? I think for right now, they've settled on sapphic, b/c they are attracted to femininity specifically (and they nixed gynephilia b/c it just sounds too horrible and even with educating someone, it still sounds horrible). The community is working on the words to start separating our sexuality from our gender IDs, but it's going to be a long and hard process.

There's not a right answer for LW and it's not really for LW to figure out. LW is doing a good job of supporting and being there for her daughter. Continue to listen. Maybe find some resources like an LGBTQ+ youth group for her daughter. The simple part is "yes, a lesbian can date a transman and that person gets to call themselves whatever they want until we come up with better words."

Thank you @VarunaTT, as an older hetero woman I often don't know what to say as the "correct" term. I don't want to offend anyone! I'm still struggling with what the nomenclature is for everyone. I hope people in general are understanding of people like me.

VarunaTT · April 2019

ILoveBeachMusic said:

VarunaTT said:

Thank you @VarunaTT, as an older hetero woman I often don't know what to say as the "correct" term. I don't want to offend anyone! I'm still struggling with what the nomenclature is for everyone. I hope people in general are understanding of people like me.

Honestly, when I was struggling to learn about race issues, I had a very good black friend who was helping my journey. One time I told her I was sorry for all the questions and emotional labor. She told me that she could tell when my questions came from a genuine place and that I was trying to learn, so she would help. As an LGBTQ advocate, I've come to really believe that. I can tell the difference. From what I can tell, everyone on here is trying. If you're not exposed much to the community, where in the hell do you really start/pick it up if you're not given a safe person/space to ask what might make you feel shame, fear, or ignorant?

I still remember the cis-het man who asked about a medical term for the NB/transgender population and was told the answer was AFAB/AMAB (assigned female/male at birth) and proceeded to argue with the community members about whether or not that was the correct term to use. He and I are not friends anymore, b/c his questions didn't come from a genuine learning place, it came from a, "let me tell you what I think about your marginalized community and what you should be doing from my privileged position". Boi...bye.

All this and that's your question? (But yay supportive mom!)

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