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Never Forget - 9/11 Friday

kvrunskvruns member
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hugs to all who were personally affected, I know this is a hard day for many.
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Re: Never Forget - 9/11 Friday

  • charlotte989875charlotte989875 member
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    I have an unpopular take on today. I get frustrated on days like these, when I see lots of posts about never forgetting and where people were when it happened and centering themselves and how they felt.  

    And I know it was a national tragedy but I feel like the people who lived through it (many of my really close friends) get to be the center of mourning, grief, memorializing. I know people want to collectively grieve, but I feel like there are different levels reserved for being who were there, who lost loved ones, who experienced the fear. I don’t know why it bugs me so much, but it does. Like I said, super unpopular take. 
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  • charlotte989875charlotte989875 member
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    climbingwife said:
    charlotte989875 said:
    I have an unpopular take on today. I get frustrated on days like these, when I see lots of posts about never forgetting and where people were when it happened and centering themselves and how they felt.  

    And I know it was a national tragedy but I feel like the people who lived through it (many of my really close friends) get to be the center of mourning, grief, memorializing. I know people want to collectively grieve, but I feel like there are different levels reserved for being who were there, who lost loved ones, who experienced the fear. I don’t know why it bugs me so much, but it does. Like I said, super unpopular take. 
    I think for some of us, it's hard when we lived it and the aftermath for such a long time. When we saw our neighbors not come home. When people we went to HS with died. When we saw and smelled the smoke. When we had friends and relatives digging through the rubble, for weeks on end. And we're still losing people to 9/11 related cancers. I think some days it's so intense for us in the area because it's never gone away, where maybe in other parts of the country, you don't have constant reminders, you know? I work right next to Manhattan (in NJ), and I think about the towers literally on my drive every morning. 

    Just trying to offer a different perspective! I get that the entire nation grieved and still does.
    This is exactly what I was (extremely ineloquently) trying to say. The majority of us didn’t live this, in this way, so the over the top posts from people who didn’t frustrate me. Probably because so many of my close friends did have this same experience you describe. 

    I moved to NY in 2003 and lived in the financial district for years; I saw so much of the clean up and rebuilding and I don’t have even a fraction of the perspective my friends who lived there do. I guess what I was trying to say is that I feel like everyone who experienced should be the center of our remembrances and grief. 
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  • mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
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    climbingwife said:
    charlotte989875 said:
    I have an unpopular take on today. I get frustrated on days like these, when I see lots of posts about never forgetting and where people were when it happened and centering themselves and how they felt.  

    And I know it was a national tragedy but I feel like the people who lived through it (many of my really close friends) get to be the center of mourning, grief, memorializing. I know people want to collectively grieve, but I feel like there are different levels reserved for being who were there, who lost loved ones, who experienced the fear. I don’t know why it bugs me so much, but it does. Like I said, super unpopular take. 
    I think for some of us, it's hard when we lived it and the aftermath for such a long time. When we saw our neighbors not come home. When people we went to HS with died. When we saw and smelled the smoke. When we had friends and relatives digging through the rubble, for weeks on end. And we're still losing people to 9/11 related cancers. I think some days it's so intense for us in the area because it's never gone away, where maybe in other parts of the country, you don't have constant reminders, you know? I work right next to Manhattan (in NJ), and I think about the towers literally on my drive every morning. 

    Just trying to offer a different perspective! I get that the entire nation grieved and still does.
    I see both perspectives.  One of my best friends saw the plane hit the Pentagon from her office where she was an intern.  She's extremely connected to and traumatized by 9/11.  It's important to her to reflect. 

    However in the last few years I've reflected more on holding the day up as something to personally 'never forget' and/or remind others to do so, because I was definitely more of a far away bystander to the day.  But I also remember living with BFF/SIL and she woke me up with a phone call (I worked 2nd shift) and I turned on the TV in time to see the second plane hit the twin towers.  I screamed.   I just think it's low on the list of lived through trauma for me. 

    This has been on my mind, especially since we're in the middle of a pandemic that has cost several 9/11's worth of lives. IDK if I'm making sense...
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  • banana468banana468 member
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    charlotte989875 said:
    I have an unpopular take on today. I get frustrated on days like these, when I see lots of posts about never forgetting and where people were when it happened and centering themselves and how they felt.  

    And I know it was a national tragedy but I feel like the people who lived through it (many of my really close friends) get to be the center of mourning, grief, memorializing. I know people want to collectively grieve, but I feel like there are different levels reserved for being who were there, who lost loved ones, who experienced the fear. I don’t know why it bugs me so much, but it does. Like I said, super unpopular take. 
    I think there are some varying degrees of it.

    For those not in DC, the greater NYC area or from Boston, it was an attack on the U.S. - all of us.   For those who live(ed) in DC, greater NYC/tri-state, Boston, Shanksville, etc it hits FAR closer.  

    DH and I were seniors in college at UConn.   I grew up about an hour ride from NYC and DH grew up about 30 minutes from it.   I don't know how the rest of the country processed but our college cancelled classes, my mom was a city school teacher an hour from NYC and the classes dismissed early.     We are both lucky in that we didn't lose any friends or family members but there was fear that day.   Cell towers were clogged or down.   My mom remembers that it took a long time to connect to us because you just couldn't make a phone call.  My dad was calling his cousin in DC to find out if he worked in the area of the Pentagon that was hit.   He was OK and had recently switched offices from where the plane hit to a different area of the building. 

    I watched students connect with their parents because while the university itself was fine there were students who were desperate to connect with their parents who were daily NYC commuters.   For some, those were 18 year old kids separated from their parents for the first lengthy time and they didn't know if their moms or dads were OK.   One college friend flipped out because her dad was routinely flying from Logan to California and wasn't sure if he was on one of the planes.     Other friends commented that they were trying to track down recent college graduates who just started working and were just desperate to find out that friends were able to check in and be OK.    

    You could see the fear in young adults that day because all of us were not near parents and some were scared that they were losing relatives.   For the days and weeks that followed you could find people who knew someone who knew someone that passed.   

    At the older levels, my MIL said that her mother who at the time was in her 80s, walked out her door and was looking up for more planes.   Living in the flight path she was wondering if they were going to hit houses next.   It was one of the first times that we saw our parents and THEIR parents with fear in their eyes wondering what it meant. 

    For the weeks that followed I remember dating my college BF who was in the CG reserves and he was teetering on the need to be activated.    There was an odd fear about what that could mean for his safety.

    I wasn't in NYC but there was still some kind of an effect.   And for those who may not have had concerns to find their families I think it was a day that many US residents felt empathy for those affected too. 


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  • banana468banana468 member
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    climbingwife said:
    I remember our cell phones not working also, and of course that added to the fear. That day, you could not get any calls through in NY and the surrounding areas.

    And I remember weird things too, like the radio stations not playing music for a long time. 
    I remember that too.   We told Chiquita that as we recalled the TV stations weren't playing real TV shows for DAYS.  
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  • mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
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    edited September 2020
    I also remember the news being on the radio all the time for over a week after.   And remember when TV went back to normal programming after nonstop news coverage?  I mean 9/11 was the advent of 24/7 news. 
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  • VarunaTTVarunaTT member
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    I also think that we should be centering those closest to the traumatic events.  I do think the entire nation has a sort of PTSD like disease from so many illegitimate wars and what they brought home; Vietnam was my parents and 9/11 and the resulting war/politics is mine.

    I'm struggling this year with it more b/c of the political environment and knowing that people I consider to be guilty of the highest of multiple instances of treason against this country are going to be out crowing fascism disguised as patriotism, care, and concern and centering themselves instead of the actual survivors of trauma.  And I don't have the words or knowledge of how to continue to fight to center those who need it on this date and fight against these bastards who demand space and attention that isn't theirs, but I find myself deeply angry about it all.
    �
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  • banana468banana468 member
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    mrsconn23 said:
    I also remember the news being on the radio all the time for over a week after.   And remember when TV went back to normal programming after nonstop news coverage?  I mean 9/11 was the advent of 24/7 news. 
    Or when NYC re-opened and you could exit Manhattan because the bridges closed and some commuters walked huge stretches to try to get out.  

    And how all flights were grounded too?  Has anyone been to the Smithsonian Air and Space museum where they show the flight traffic that day and days following?  
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  • MissKittyDangerMissKittyDanger member
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    As much as I get it was a massive tragedy, it's a weird take being in Canada/Canadian about this.
    Our school was only one who didn't have videos playing that day. I had no idea until end of the day about what happened. The school opted to not tell people because they didn't know who would have the off hand chance of knowing someone there.

    Serious question, how many of you know that many planes were diverted to Gander, Newfoundland and there is now a play {musical?} about how Canadians literally moved shit around to bring planes in to keep people safe? {It's called "Come From Away" fyi}
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  • charlotte989875charlotte989875 member
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    MissKittyDanger said:
    As much as I get it was a massive tragedy, it's a weird take being in Canada/Canadian about this.
    Our school was only one who didn't have videos playing that day. I had no idea until end of the day about what happened. The school opted to not tell people because they didn't know who would have the off hand chance of knowing someone there.

    Serious question, how many of you know that many planes were diverted to Gander, Newfoundland and there is now a play {musical?} about how Canadians literally moved shit around to bring planes in to keep people safe? {It's called "Come From Away" fyi}
    That’s an amazing show!! I saw it this year and happy cried through most of it. It’s such a beautiful thing that happened, and the show is outstanding. 
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  • kvrunskvruns member
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    MissKittyDanger said:
    As much as I get it was a massive tragedy, it's a weird take being in Canada/Canadian about this.
    Our school was only one who didn't have videos playing that day. I had no idea until end of the day about what happened. The school opted to not tell people because they didn't know who would have the off hand chance of knowing someone there.

    Serious question, how many of you know that many planes were diverted to Gander, Newfoundland and there is now a play {musical?} about how Canadians literally moved shit around to bring planes in to keep people safe? {It's called "Come From Away" fyi}
    I didn't see the play but heard good things about it. I read the book and really enjoyed learning more that way 
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  • kvrunskvruns member
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    banana468 said:
    mrsconn23 said:
    I also remember the news being on the radio all the time for over a week after.   And remember when TV went back to normal programming after nonstop news coverage?  I mean 9/11 was the advent of 24/7 news. 
    Or when NYC re-opened and you could exit Manhattan because the bridges closed and some commuters walked huge stretches to try to get out.  

    And how all flights were grounded too?  Has anyone been to the Smithsonian Air and Space museum where they show the flight traffic that day and days following?  
    I think about the flights a lot because I was in college during this and one of our tennis opponents was in the flight path of Cincinnati airport so when we played them we always saw a lot of planes. Our match with them was right after flights had resumed and I remember a teammate's mom saying like "fly plane fly!" and cheering every time a plane flew over the courts bc it was powerful seeing it resume after no planes for a little while. 
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  • charlotte989875charlotte989875 member
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    banana468 said:
    mrsconn23 said:
    I also remember the news being on the radio all the time for over a week after.   And remember when TV went back to normal programming after nonstop news coverage?  I mean 9/11 was the advent of 24/7 news. 
    Or when NYC re-opened and you could exit Manhattan because the bridges closed and some commuters walked huge stretches to try to get out.  

    And how all flights were grounded too?  Has anyone been to the Smithsonian Air and Space museum where they show the flight traffic that day and days following?  
    My Dad was an air refueling specialist in the Air Force at the time (and on a trip to Washington and we couldn’t get a hold of him for hours). But he went right to NY to refuel planes enforcing the no fly zone. He said it was the most surreal experience to hear no other planes in the air. 
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  • kerbohlkerbohl member
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    MissKittyDanger said:
    As much as I get it was a massive tragedy, it's a weird take being in Canada/Canadian about this.
    Our school was only one who didn't have videos playing that day. I had no idea until end of the day about what happened. The school opted to not tell people because they didn't know who would have the off hand chance of knowing someone there.

    Serious question, how many of you know that many planes were diverted to Gander, Newfoundland and there is now a play {musical?} about how Canadians literally moved shit around to bring planes in to keep people safe? {It's called "Come From Away" fyi}
    I agree.  Our school was playing the videos all day, but you had to go to a particular room to watch it.  It was very surreal.

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  • MissKittyDangerMissKittyDanger member
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    kerbohl said:
    MissKittyDanger said:
    As much as I get it was a massive tragedy, it's a weird take being in Canada/Canadian about this.
    Our school was only one who didn't have videos playing that day. I had no idea until end of the day about what happened. The school opted to not tell people because they didn't know who would have the off hand chance of knowing someone there.

    Serious question, how many of you know that many planes were diverted to Gander, Newfoundland and there is now a play {musical?} about how Canadians literally moved shit around to bring planes in to keep people safe? {It's called "Come From Away" fyi}
    I agree.  Our school was playing the videos all day, but you had to go to a particular room to watch it.  It was very surreal.
    some schools had the gym opened for CNN playing. When a friend told me that I was like "wtf?"
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  • levioosalevioosa member
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    As someone who was literally on the opposite coast, I get what @charlotte989875 is saying. Now, when I was with my ex, it felt a little different because his dad was literally downtown when it happened and no one could get a hold of him for a day, so the trauma from that was also renewed each year and his family lost a lot of friends in the towers. But personally? It was horrific, I saw the second plane hit and I spent the rest of the day in a stunned fog. But I won’t pretend like I have nearly the same amount of trauma or grief like those who had family or friends there, or who were in the immediate surrounding area. I also have a lot of feels with how we manipulate this event politically. But I’ll leave that alone out of respect for everyone who was affected and who continues to be affected. 

    Re: flight paths, my parents lived under one. It was so eerie to suddenly have silence. Then after a long while, the only aircraft was intense military and that was almost more eerie. 


    image
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  • STARMOON44STARMOON44 member
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    I don’t think people who share their memories are trying to center their grief over and above people with more serious connections. It’s a way of remembering a tragedy that touched many, near and far. I usually share a memory or two on social media, and I like seeing other’s memories, because it’s a way to keep the little details alive and not let the tragedy fade away. I’m not waltzing up to a 9/11 widow to share my pain and I don’t think anyone else really is either. 
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  • MissKittyDangerMissKittyDanger member
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    banana468 said:
    Agreed.   I don't think any of us are attempting to rank our levels of experience.

    What I WILL say is that the current trend in social media to talk about how we all were on 9/12 misses one significant mark.   On 9/12 we were all united as US citizens unless there was a suspected Muslim in the group.   9/12 created the environment and practice where we reactivated the practice of "it's fine to judge by skin tone" and I do think we are deluding ourselves when we look through the rose colored glasses at those days.  
    This reminds me of the shooting on parliament hill by the war memorial.
    We were together as a city and praising the guy who took the person down when he entered parliament and talking about how close it was to being worse {people were not out in the halls}
    I remember seeing a lot of "when something is wrong, look for the helpers" and it turned into a lot of praising those who were onlookers that stepped in/up when things went down.
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  • ILoveBeachMusicILoveBeachMusic member
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    charlotte989875 said:
    MissKittyDanger said:
    As much as I get it was a massive tragedy, it's a weird take being in Canada/Canadian about this.
    Our school was only one who didn't have videos playing that day. I had no idea until end of the day about what happened. The school opted to not tell people because they didn't know who would have the off hand chance of knowing someone there.

    Serious question, how many of you know that many planes were diverted to Gander, Newfoundland and there is now a play {musical?} about how Canadians literally moved shit around to bring planes in to keep people safe? {It's called "Come From Away" fyi}
    That’s an amazing show!! I saw it this year and happy cried through most of it. It’s such a beautiful thing that happened, and the show is outstanding. 
    We saw it this year too. Two of the people from the plane live in the Indy area. I had never heard about it until we saw the play. It was awesome - gives hope for humanity.

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  • climbingsingleclimbingsingle member
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    banana468 said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    I don’t think people who share their memories are trying to center their grief over and above people with more serious connections. It’s a way of remembering a tragedy that touched many, near and far. I usually share a memory or two on social media, and I like seeing other’s memories, because it’s a way to keep the little details alive and not let the tragedy fade away. I’m not waltzing up to a 9/11 widow to share my pain and I don’t think anyone else really is either. 
    Agreed.   I don't think any of us are attempting to rank our levels of experience.

    What I WILL say is that the current trend in social media to talk about how we all were on 9/12 misses one significant mark.   On 9/12 we were all united as US citizens unless there was a suspected Muslim in the group.   9/12 created the environment and practice where we reactivated the practice of "it's fine to judge by skin tone" and I do think we are deluding ourselves when we look through the rose colored glasses at those days.  
    Agree with this 1000 times. If I see one more post about 9/12, I'm going to scream. 
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  • charlotte989875charlotte989875 member
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    banana468 said:
    STARMOON44 said:
    I don’t think people who share their memories are trying to center their grief over and above people with more serious connections. It’s a way of remembering a tragedy that touched many, near and far. I usually share a memory or two on social media, and I like seeing other’s memories, because it’s a way to keep the little details alive and not let the tragedy fade away. I’m not waltzing up to a 9/11 widow to share my pain and I don’t think anyone else really is either. 
    Agreed.   I don't think any of us are attempting to rank our levels of experience.

    What I WILL say is that the current trend in social media to talk about how we all were on 9/12 misses one significant mark.   On 9/12 we were all united as US citizens unless there was a suspected Muslim in the group.   9/12 created the environment and practice where we reactivated the practice of "it's fine to judge by skin tone" and I do think we are deluding ourselves when we look through the rose colored glasses at those days.  
    I think what I was feeling was clouded by A LOT of this earlier today. 

    I didn’t mean to imply people shouldn’t share stories or their experiences and I’m sorry if anyone felt that way! 
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  • ILoveBeachMusicILoveBeachMusic member
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    Jstump2 said:
    @MissKittyDanger When I went to the Columbus zoo we learned about this. There was a monkey on a plane being relocated on 9/11. The zookeeper told us the plane was grounded in Gander and the people there did an amazing job coming together and making sure the animals had all the food and things that they needed.

    Found an article excerpt:

    A post about Gander - a 12 year old bonobo living in The Columbus Zoo and Aquarium. Gander is the son of Unga, who was born in Planckendael, in 1993 and was transferred to the US on 9/11/2001. The plane was diverted, and halted in Gander, Newfoundland. The people of Gander did their best to help all people (and 2 bonobos) who were stranded there. They brought fruit and vegetables to feed the bonobos, who were looked after by one of the Planckendael keepers. After a few days, Unga could continue her journey to Columbus Zoo. Two years later, she gave birth to this handsome son, who was named after the town that helped in this intercontinental bonobo transfer.
    Unga was pregnant when they were at Gander but lost the baby which was very sad. There was a woman who specifically helped out with the animals on board. I can't remember if she was a veterinarian or just an animal lover. When Unga lost the first baby I teared up (during the play).
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  • Jstump2Jstump2 member
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    @ILoveBeachMusic That is sad :( I don't remember the zookeeper telling us about that but maybe she kept that part out as the audience was mostly kids.
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