Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about?

LessThanZero · October 2010

http://gawker.com/5669165/law-student-wants-tuition-back-because-they-cant-find-a-job

This law student is trying to get his law school to give him a full refund if he leaves before getting a degree, because he can't find a job.

Excuse me? People can say what they want about whether college is worth it or not but the fact that a student thinks this is ok is just absurd to me. College or vocational school doesn't guarantee you a job, it just provides you with the skills and knowledge necessary to attain an available job.

This reminded me of a conversation a bunch of us had last week about the wave of seemingly spoiled, entitled young adults entering the world these days. I don't understand it. I'm sure it's not that he can't find a job, he just can't find the job that he wants.

Thoughts?

MeaghanandMichael · October 2010

oh good god.

I agree with everything you said.

Also, having an education doesn't mean you are the type of person people want to hire. You can be the smartest guy on the planet but if you have terrible people skills, can't formulate a coherent sentence, or are just an ass, you probably are not getting the job either.

BecW2be · October 2010

I hope he's blacklisted after he graduates and never gets a job. What an ass.

reddy123 · October 2010

The culinary schools in my area are facing multiple law suits for the same reason. I agree with you about the responsibility of finding a job yourself, but with the culinary schools they are pumping out WAY more graduates than there are jobs, all while promising work to its students. At what point is the college not just taking money, and when it comes to using what you just paid so much for, they say 'that's your problem'?

ETA: not that that applies to a law student and I totally agree with M&M.

JenGin74 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_remember-sense-of-entitlement-were-talking?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d68284d8-41b2-41a7-9a42-6bdaf52b318cPost:39815b8e-3425-45d4-9af4-7b6a14768422">Re: Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about?</a>:
[QUOTE]I hope he's blacklisted after he graduates and never gets a job. What an ass.
Posted by BecW2be[/QUOTE]

This

he needs a reality check. STAT

shaydenise · October 2010

wtf? Some people are so stupid.

MarriedInAFever · October 2010

This is great news! I plan on contacting an attorney and suing the print media industry now. Everyone knows once you graduate college, there's a 100k+ job and a Beemer waiting for you.

KatyRoseM · October 2010

Its possible he can't find a job in the legal field. My school has been telling everyone to find jobs elsewhere and give up the law.

That being said he probably doesn't have a claim.

If he wins he will probably get a job somewhere though, as he won a case with almost no claim. I would guess he is trying to make a name for himself, and not actually trying to get the tuition back. I could be wrong though.

JenGin74 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_remember-sense-of-entitlement-were-talking?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d68284d8-41b2-41a7-9a42-6bdaf52b318cPost:7593d474-ef0e-461a-b746-9326b69ed822">Re: Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about?</a>:
[QUOTE]The culinary schools in my area are facing multiple law suits for the same reason. I agree with you about the responsibility of finding a job yourself, but with the culinary schools they are pumping out WAY more graduates than there are jobs, all while promising work to its students. At what point is the college not just taking money, and when it comes to using what you just paid so much for, they say 'that's your problem'? ETA: not that that applies to a law student and I totally agree with M&M.
Posted by reddy123[/QUOTE]

I can agree with a lawsuit if they're actually promising jobs and not delivering

kpwedkk · October 2010

A jolt of reality is needed!

katiewhompus · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_remember-sense-of-entitlement-were-talking?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:d68284d8-41b2-41a7-9a42-6bdaf52b318cPost:7593d474-ef0e-461a-b746-9326b69ed822">Re: Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about?</a>:
[QUOTE]The culinary schools in my area are facing multiple law suits for the same reason. I agree with you about the responsibility of finding a job yourself, but with the culinary schools they are pumping out WAY more graduates than there are jobs,<strong> all while promising work to its students</strong>. At what point is the college not just taking money, and when it comes to using what you just paid so much for, they say 'that's your problem'? ETA: not that that applies to a law student and I totally agree with M&M.
Posted by reddy123[/QUOTE]

Honestly, this is where I find the problem to be. All my college career I was told that it would be no problem getting a job in Anth, that it was a great degree to have, that the college would be able to get me a job in the field, etc.
Then I graduate and you get dropped on your ass into a world that thinks Anth is a useless degree (and to a point that's right).

18-22 is a very vulnerable and trusting age when it comes to real world stuff. If your parents, your teachers, your neighbors, and your advisor are assuring you that a job is out there as long as you pump money into this degree, you are going to believe it.

LessThanZero · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_remember-sense-of-entitlement-were-talking?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d68284d8-41b2-41a7-9a42-6bdaf52b318cPost:c27716d8-ade5-48fd-945f-09d1513405f3">Re: Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about? : I can agree with a lawsuit if they're actually promising jobs and not delivering
Posted by JenGin74[/QUOTE]

Yeah that's a whole other story.

I'd think a LAW SCHOOL would know better than to do that. But then again, the amount of BSC stuff going on each day could help me believe otherwise.

reddy123 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_remember-sense-of-entitlement-were-talking?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d68284d8-41b2-41a7-9a42-6bdaf52b318cPost:c27716d8-ade5-48fd-945f-09d1513405f3">Re: Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about? : I can agree with a lawsuit if they're actually promising jobs and not delivering
Posted by JenGin74[/QUOTE]

<div>Yeah, I think the culinary schools and the nursing vocational schools are both getting in trouble for statements like, "our career counselors guarantee you will get a job in __ months after graduation."</div>

reddy123 · October 2010

Yes, Mery, but even public universities promise the world, a lot like Katie said. Law is a bad subject for an example, but others... All the college cares about is tuition and graduates.

LessThanZero · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_remember-sense-of-entitlement-were-talking?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d68284d8-41b2-41a7-9a42-6bdaf52b318cPost:48c15bc0-3556-40d0-8ad3-97a460e28e75">Re: Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about? : Honestly, this is where I find the problem to be. All my college career I was told that it would be no problem getting a job in Anth, that it was a great degree to have, that the college would be able to get me a job in the field, etc. Then I graduate and you get dropped on your ass into a world that thinks Anth is a useless degree (and to a point that's right). 18-22 is a very vulnerable and trusting age when it comes to real world stuff. <strong>If your parents, your teachers, your neighbors, and your advisor are assuring you that a job is out there as long as you pump money into this degree, you are going to believe it.</strong>
Posted by katiewhompus[/QUOTE]

Very true Katie. And while the advisors and teachers have a slightly different agenda, the parents are a a completely different monster.

Look, when I have kids I am going to try my best to teach them the facts of life. Of course I will want to be positive and supposrtive of them, but I don't think that means neglecting to show or tell them, candidly, about the troubles people have with different situations. Obviously parents of kids who are now 18-22 yrs old come from a different era than those of us who are in our 20's, 30's and even 40's. It just makes me sad and kind of angry in a way, that a group of kids from an entire generation have this view that they're owed something.

reddy123 · October 2010

Yes, I agree M&M. I chose my (poor) major. I chose to go to college at all. Free will negates all suing IMO. Especially the "my future isn't what I wanted it to be, waaa" kind of suing.

*ETA ... not all suing, this kind of suing

KatyRoseM · October 2010

Law schools used to imply promises of employment, they don't anymore. In fact now most professors will tell you not to go to law school. I'm not really sure what admissions is doing about that.

NatesGirl16 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_remember-sense-of-entitlement-were-talking?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d68284d8-41b2-41a7-9a42-6bdaf52b318cPost:48c15bc0-3556-40d0-8ad3-97a460e28e75">Re: Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about? : Honestly, this is where I find the problem to be. All my college career I was told that it would be no problem getting a job in Anth, that it was a great degree to have, that the college would be able to get me a job in the field, etc. Then I graduate and you get dropped on your ass into a world that thinks Anth is a useless degree (and to a point that's right). <strong>18-22 is a very vulnerable and trusting age when it comes to real world stuff. If your parents, your teachers, your neighbors, and your advisor are assuring you that a job is out there as long as you pump money into this degree, you are going to believe it.</strong>
Posted by katiewhompus[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but I think being so naive is a little ridiculous (not you personally, collective "you"). Before I chose my concentration (in high school, no less), I researched schools with excellent programs and employment rates in general. No one is responsible for another person's future but themselves. Saying that someone told you that there would be a job seems irresponsible, IMO.

On a somewhat (not so much) related note, FI just found out he got accepted to a civil engineering program! (and if h thinks he's guaranteed a job just because someone says so, I will junk punch him)

JenGin74 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_remember-sense-of-entitlement-were-talking?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d68284d8-41b2-41a7-9a42-6bdaf52b318cPost:924dde3b-d9c1-40cf-a76a-1e3ab5a5a25f">Re: Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about?</a>:
[QUOTE]I know you are all completely right about the whole, 'if they promised something then people have a right to sue.' That is how things go in our country. BUT (and this is purely opinion) I freaking hate that fact in general. I know it is true they are within their rights to sue. BUT, where the hell is common sense and a sense of responsibility for yourself?? That just irks me to no end which is why I am on the train that this is still pure entitlement. I also don't really buy the, 'college students are impressionable' thing. I know I didn't feel that way. Especially in this economy, I can't imagine people truly believing jobs are out there for every one with a degree. That scaes me if people really do think that.
Posted by MeaghanandMichael[/QUOTE]

I'm talking about those places that guarantee a job through their alumni "placement program"

I'm all for personal responsibility, but sometimes people get duped and I think they should be able to get reimbursed if someone doesn't deliver on their promises

katiewhompus · October 2010

LTZ, I was actually just reading a really great article (which I now can't find) about how people in the '78-'98 Era are the "Try your best" generation, and I agree. Most of my friends and the people younger than me have been told "try your best, that's all that matters" our entire lives. Then people hit the job field and wow, it doesn't matter how hard you try sometimes it just doesn't work. I've been blessed that the first time I was really affected by the mentality was house hunting/ttc, but it's a hard adjustment for a lot of people.

I also think it's an easy thing for most people with jobs to say that people feel entitled for getting a good job. If you are 100% honest with yourself, how many posters would be willing to work for $7/hour cleaning houses, baby sitting, mowing yards, etc. just to have some money? My mom and dad graduated with teaching degrees. She was a housekeeper/nanny for the first 5 years after college and he mowed yards and bussed tables until he was 26 and got a teaching job. I truly don't think the majority of the population is willing to do the shitty jobs anymore.

MeaghanandMichael · October 2010

Nates! Mike is a civil engineer too! He absolutely loves it. Congrats to Nate

reddy123 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_remember-sense-of-entitlement-were-talking?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d68284d8-41b2-41a7-9a42-6bdaf52b318cPost:febf82c2-831b-4cae-adef-61b8d93a130f">Re: Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about?</a>:
[QUOTE] I truly don't think the majority of the population is willing to do the shitty jobs anymore.
Posted by katiewhompus[/QUOTE]

<div>THIS. When we teach our kids to all go to college to get a good job, eventually we will all have college degrees and then what? It sounds like I'm exaggerating but I don't think it's so far off.</div><div>
</div><div>It reminds me of an awesome speech made by the Dirty Jobs guy. Maybe I found this through TK, I forgot. As a daughter of a garbageman I love this speech and it really got me thinking:</div><div><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-udsIV4Hmc" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-udsIV4Hmc</a></div>

KatyRoseM · October 2010

Getting other jobs after law school might also be hard. Will Walmart really hire me if all my experience is in the legal field? I don't know, but they won't hire me as a law student. Don't take this wrong, I'm not entitled to things, I get that, but just because I don't have a job doesn't mean I wouldn't take it.

maratea · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_remember-sense-of-entitlement-were-talking?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d68284d8-41b2-41a7-9a42-6bdaf52b318cPost:febf82c2-831b-4cae-adef-61b8d93a130f">Re: Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about?</a>:
[QUOTE]LTZ, I was actually just reading a really great article (which I now can't find) about how people in the '78-'98 Era are the "Try your best" generation, and I agree. Most of my friends and the people younger than me have been told "try your best, that's all that matters" our entire lives. Then people hit the job field and wow, it doesn't matter how hard you try sometimes it just doesn't work. I've been blessed that the first time I was really affected by the mentality was house hunting/ttc, but it's a hard adjustment for a lot of people. I also think it's an easy thing for most people with jobs to say that people feel entitled for getting a good job. <strong>If you are 100% honest with yourself, how many posters would be willing to work for $7/hour cleaning houses, baby sitting, mowing yards, etc. just to have some money? </strong>My mom and dad graduated with teaching degrees. She was a housekeeper/nanny for the first 5 years after college and he mowed yards and bussed tables until he was 26 and got a teaching job. I truly don't think the majority of the population is willing to do the shitty jobs anymore.
Posted by katiewhompus[/QUOTE]

Me. I worked for several months after school at a liquor store and only made $7.50. It was shitty pay but it was a job and I was making money.

People need to start taking responsibility for themselves and stop blaming other people. Even if you were promised a job, and then didn't get one, too fucking bad. Man up, apply for other jobs and stop bitching because you didn't have the foresight to think this might happen. Planning ahead is part of being an adult.

katiewhompus · October 2010

Yay for your Fi!

My dad says college is the high school of his generation. It's expected that you are going to go and it gives you a boost, but it's not nearly as important as, say, graduate school. College is just something to do after high school. There's actually a big movement now trying to steer people away from traditional colleges and go towards more vocational training and getting straight into the job force.

NatesGirl16 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_remember-sense-of-entitlement-were-talking?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d68284d8-41b2-41a7-9a42-6bdaf52b318cPost:eff5ac81-d2e0-4b62-ac21-0969fd40f124">Re: Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about?</a>:
[QUOTE]Nates! Mike is a civil engineer too! He absolutely loves it. Congrats to Nate :)
Posted by MeaghanandMichael[/QUOTE]
Thanks! I'm such an AW threadjacker (sorry LTZ), but he won't let me tell anyone, damn him. I like to spread the word when I'm proud. I'll have to tell him that one of my Knottie friends' husbands is a civil engineer--he'll be so excited.

ETA: Thanks, Katie, too!

MarriedInAFever · October 2010

Congrats, Nate and Nates! That's great news.

NatesGirl16 · October 2010

I agree about college being the new high school. Parents call professors nowadays and discuss grades--WTF? One of my favorite parts about being in college was that I was responsible for myself and only had to answer to myself for grades, my progress, etc.

LessThanZero · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_remember-sense-of-entitlement-were-talking?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d68284d8-41b2-41a7-9a42-6bdaf52b318cPost:febf82c2-831b-4cae-adef-61b8d93a130f">Re: Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about?</a>:
[QUOTE]LTZ, I was actually just reading a really great article (which I now can't find) about how people in the '78-'98 Era are the "Try your best" generation, and I agree. Most of my friends and the people younger than me have been told "try your best, that's all that matters" our entire lives. Then people hit the job field and wow, it doesn't matter how hard you try sometimes it just doesn't work. I've been blessed that the first time I was really affected by the mentality was house hunting/ttc, but it's a hard adjustment for a lot of people. I also think it's an easy thing for most people with jobs to say that people feel entitled for getting a good job. If you are 100% honest with yourself, how many posters would be willing to work for $7/hour cleaning houses, baby sitting, mowing yards, etc. just to have some money? My mom and dad graduated with teaching degrees. She was a housekeeper/nanny for the first 5 years after college and he mowed yards and bussed tables until he was 26 and got a teaching job. I truly don't think the majority of the population is willing to do the shitty jobs anymore.
Posted by katiewhompus[/QUOTE]

I completely agree. I entered college in 2001 and graduated in 2005. I'm not going to lie, I thought I would get a job pretty quickly after graduating. Not because I had been told I would by family or faculty though. I just had some hope for myself. Not in a narcisistic way either. I just figured I would.

BUT I was mentally prepared for the fact that I might not. And being 100% honest, working at McDonald's wasn't an option for me at the time. The thing with me though, was that it wasn't about the money, it was just that I didn't want to work at McDonalds. I figured if I was going to work for little money I could at least try to find something I like to do. So I went back to my old job as a receptionist at a medical facility making maybe 2 dollars more than minimum wage per hour. Again, I lived at home still and my only bills were car insurance, cell phone, gas and school books. I know not everyone has that situation. I sure as hell was frustrated that I didn't have a job in my field, but not because I thought it was owed to me, but because I really wanted to do the job that I love.

Again, I know everyone's situation is different. But I can't imagine growing up thinking it's ok to sue someone or make demands, because of something like this. I cannot wrap my head around that concept.

MarriedInAFever · October 2010

In my town, 15% of residents have a degree. It's still kind of a big deal here.

katiewhompus · October 2010

Yeah we are way too sue happy in this country.

And yeah, sometimes being an adult means working a job you hate. When I realized there was no money in archaeology I worked as a Petsmart cashier for a year making $8 an hour, then joined management there and earned a whole $12/hour. Ideal no, but it paid the bills. Somewhere along the line we've forgotten the "at least it pays the bills" part and honestly, it didn't start with the people younger than 25.

Remember that sense of entitlement we were talking about?

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