Can I ask a serious question without starting a religious debate? (long)

tidetravel · July 2010

So... I've been thinking lately about how I'd like to bring Taryn up, religiously. I haven't really had a chance to talk to DH about this, so this is really just me spit balling, although it's been on my mind quite a bit.

Some background: DH and I are both varying degrees of pagan - he follows a more celtic theology, and I tend towards a more native/naturalist one. My dad's Catholic, my mom's Jewish, and DH's parents are Christian. In an ideal world, I would bring Taryn up pagan, however, there are a few obsticles to that.

The first is that there's no real "church" in the area for us. The closest one is in Baltimore, to which we have attended a few functions, however, it's filled with a lot of young, wannabes wiccians. I would like for her to have a community to be a part of when she's young, and I don't feel this would be right for her.

The second is that paganism, as a whole, encompasses a lot of different paths/religions. There really isn't one doctorine to follow. DH and I found our own paths after learning about many different religions as young adults, and seeing which one made the most sense to each of us. I feel as though it's something that would be difficult to teach some else, however, because the beliefs aren't really well defined.

Even though I don't personally believe in the Christian view of the world, I do see many benefits to raising her with that view. I would like to give her some sort of concrete belief system when she's young. If she were to make the decision later on that she didn't agree with it, or didn't want to go to church (much like DH and I) we wouldn't force it on her. I would still plan on teaching her about "our ways" as well.

Since I haven't been to church in, oh, say, 20 years, does anyone have any recommendations on where to get started? Obviously, it's a matter of checking out local churches/pastors/etc. to see if there's one that I feel comfortable at. Are there certain religions that are more open/tolerant than others (forgive my ignorance in this matter.) Suggestions on questions to ask? Any other comments/questions/etc.

aprovencher21 · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_can-ask-serious-question-starting-religious-debate-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:fce3e18f-1220-44a8-b565-5c863ca0d8e0Post:ee7b04f9-bf27-4e28-966e-ebac37672ec0">Can I ask a serious question without starting a religious debate? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]So... I've been thinking lately about how I'd like to bring Taryn up, religiously. I haven't really had a chance to talk to DH about this, so this is really just me spit balling, although it's been on my mind quite a bit. Some background: DH and I are both varying degrees of pagan - he follows a more celtic theology, and I tend towards a more native/naturalist one. My dad's Catholic, my mom's Jewish, and DH's parents are Christian. In an ideal world, I would bring Taryn up pagan, however, there are a few obsticles to that. The first is that there's no real "church" in the area for us. The closest one is in Baltimore, to which we have attended a few functions, however, it's filled with a lot of young, wannabes wiccians. I would like for her to have a community to be a part of when she's young, and I don't feel this would be right for her. The second is that paganism, as a whole, encompasses a lot of different paths/religions. There really isn't one doctorine to follow. DH and I found our own paths after learning about many different religions as young adults, and seeing which one made the most sense to each of us. I feel as though it's something that would be difficult to teach some else, however, because the beliefs aren't really well defined. Even though I don't personally believe in the Christian view of the world, I do see many benefits to raising her with that view. I would like to give her some sort of concrete belief system when she's young. If she were to make the decision later on that she didn't agree with it, or didn't want to go to church (much like DH and I) we wouldn't force it on her. I would still plan on teaching her about "our ways" as well. Since I haven't been to church in, oh, say, 20 years, does anyone have any recommendations on where to get started? Obviously, it's a matter of checking out local churches/pastors/etc. to see if there's one that I feel comfortable at. Are there certain religions that are more open/tolerant than others (forgive my ignorance in this matter.) Suggestions on questions to ask? Any other comments/questions/etc.
Posted by tidetravel[/QUOTE]

To be honest I would look into finding a local Quaker meeting for worship. While Quakerism was founded on Christianity it isn't a requirement anymore for being Quaker or part of the worship. Basically, Quakers believe there is the light of god in every person and it is up to us as individuals to discover the light in all. They accept all people and really are very tolerant.

Licia&Wayne · July 2010

Possibly Unitarian Universalists? When I was reading what you were describing as what you wanted in a faith community, that was what I immediately thought of. I've never attended an Unitarian service, but I have heard some very good things about the community itself.

arthomas82 · July 2010

Non-denominational is a safe way to go since it isn't really a "religion" and once the children are old enough to decide for themselves, they can choose a more specific doctrine if need be.

Knittibell · July 2010

If you really want a church, I'd look into the Unitarian Universalists. They're about as open mided as it gets, IMO, and I've been thinking about joining. I was raised Catholic, but disagree with far too much of the teachings of the CC, so now I'm churchless, and I'm ok with that.

I think you have some great opportunities, though. Growing up Catholic, my best friend was Jewish, and she'd do Christmas and Easter with me, and I'd do Hannukah and Passover with her. It was a great way to learn about what other people believe, and why. To this day, although for the most part Organized Religion has little interest for me, I'm endlessly fascinated by what people believe and why.

I don't really see why you need a church. I'd explain what you and your H believe and why you believe- teach her about other religions by taking her to various church and family celebrations at your various parent's homes/churches. What a wonderful way to grow up open minded and tolerant- and then when she's old enough, she'll decide what the right path is for her.

That's my opinion.

She's a cutie, BTW!

[Deleted User] · July 2010

Is it that you want to raise her as a Christian (believing that Christ is the lord and savior) or that you want to raise her with a set of morals that can be found in Christian teachings?

I'm not a religious person myself, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance, but I'm just interested in your reasoning.

Night_Sprite · July 2010

You could try a Unitarian Universalist group. They tend to be in between pagan and Christian, more morality and living a good life stuff. I could probably put you in touch with my friend Joseph if you wanted more information.

We think we'll raise theoretical future children Lutheran for a few reasons. 1. There is a lot of Christian information/doctrine/lore mixed in daily life that it's good to know for theology and history because so much grew from those roots. 2. Singing, routine, and family activities are all things we want to encourage. 3. Sunday school is just one more way of socializing your children. 4. My favorite part about church is the ritual (singing, liturgy, etc.)

tidetravel · July 2010

Thanks Bell - As far as the need for a church: I've felt for a while now that there's something lacking in my life, and I feel as though it has a lot to do with not being apart of a religious community.

tidetravel · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_can-ask-serious-question-starting-religious-debate-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:fce3e18f-1220-44a8-b565-5c863ca0d8e0Post:fff805b7-68e7-41f6-9e5e-1b4d76354e44">Re: Can I ask a serious question without starting a religious debate? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]Is it that you want to raise her as a Christian (believing that Christ is the lord and savior) or that you want to raise her with a set of morals that can be found in Christian teachings? I'm not a religious person myself, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance, but I'm just interested in your reasoning. :)
Posted by cew515[/QUOTE]
Cew - my intent would be more along the lines of the latter, although if she were to choose to believe in Christ as her savior, that would be ok to.

[Deleted User] · July 2010

Ah. Okay. I think that taking her to church and allowing her to experience it and chose for herself is a really wonderful thing.

Knittibell · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_can-ask-serious-question-starting-religious-debate-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:fce3e18f-1220-44a8-b565-5c863ca0d8e0Post:88f52a75-c7d2-4414-bbbc-62a34b4c8adb">Re: Can I ask a serious question without starting a religious debate? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]Thanks Bell - As far as the need for a church: I've felt for a while now that there's something lacking in my life, and I feel as though it has a lot to do with not being apart of a religious community.
Posted by tidetravel[/QUOTE]

I feel that way, too, which is why I'm looking into the Unitarians... I liked the sense of community, and singing in the choir. I do think that most church teachings are just basic good morals, I mean, no disrespect, but the 10 Commandments are pretty much common sense, you know?

sarahmk5 · July 2010

I second a Unitarian church. You could also "church shop" in your area. Check out a couple different churches and see how you like the vibe there.

ETA: My friend was brought up in a couple different churches, and she very much favored the Unitarian one.

And I think you're doing a great thing for your daughter.

opalsky007 · July 2010

I was going to recommend UU, but it seems everyone beat me to it.

I dated a UU guy once, and went to a youth group thing with him. Flipping through their worship books, I stumbled across Christian prayers, but also Buddhist, Shinto, Hindu, and humanist texts. At the minimum, it would expose your daughter to a lot of beliefs and belief systems, and allow her to choose which, if any, provide her with the most guidance.

MeaghanandMichael · July 2010

To be completely honest, I think you need to church shop. Right now it seems like the doctrines are less important to you than the community and the ability to have a free flow of ideas that are perhaps outside of mainstream doctrine while still being circumspect to the overall intrinsic values held by the church.

tidetravel · July 2010

Thank you all for your suggestions! When I get home, I think I will start church-shopping, starting with the UU congregations in the area

It looks as though they would be more in-line with what I hope to achieve for her, and maybe even myself.

katiewhompus · July 2010

* writes down * begin shopping for UU churches in your area.

This is one area that Scott and I have touched on but not made any decisions on. He's non-practicing Catholic but does believe in God and that Jesus Christ is his Savior, I'm pagan. I think we will probably attend church (after finding one) but I will not take communion. As the hypothetical child grows up they will get exposure to his views on things as well as my views on things and can take it as they go. I do like the UU idea though. That seems like a good compromise.

Our fun is going to be baptism. His family is already planning one and I refuse to say sacred words I don't believe in/won't follow because I do believe they have power. I am fine with a ceremony for community and raising them to be good people, but I cannot in good conscience say I will raise my child in the Catholic faith.

Knittibell · July 2010

Katie, I can't blame you on that one. I know my mom will be heartbroken that I won't baptize my kids, should I have them. But I personally can't get on board with a religion that teaches so much intolerance.

tidetravel · July 2010

Katie - where is your new house, now? Anywhere close to Alexandria? We could go together

Night_Sprite · July 2010

Although, UU doesn't use amen at all. I like amen, so that would bug me.

tidetravel · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_can-ask-serious-question-starting-religious-debate-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:fce3e18f-1220-44a8-b565-5c863ca0d8e0Post:f997db4d-cbbd-4230-9376-1ca68b3548eb">Re: Can I ask a serious question without starting a religious debate? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]Although, UU doesn't use amen at all. I like amen, so that would bug me.
Posted by Night_Sprite[/QUOTE]
How about Huzzah? That's fun, too.

Night_Sprite · July 2010

Still two syllables for easy singing.

MeaghanandMichael · July 2010

How about a little, "so say we all." Shelly? Back me up here?

Steph0871 · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_can-ask-serious-question-starting-religious-debate-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:fce3e18f-1220-44a8-b565-5c863ca0d8e0Post:f997db4d-cbbd-4230-9376-1ca68b3548eb">Re: Can I ask a serious question without starting a religious debate? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]Although, UU doesn't use amen at all. I like amen, so that would bug me.
Posted by Night_Sprite[/QUOTE]

<div>I'll be honest, I miss Amen, too.</div><div>
</div><div>Are you an "ah-men" or an "aye-men" Lutheran? :)</div>

[Deleted User] · July 2010

I don't have any advice on churches, I just wanted to say I think it's great that you have the views you have, and that you aren't one to force them on your child. My mom is Christian and my dad is an atheist, and they never forced me one way or the other. I ended up gravitating towards my Cherokee heritage under the guidance of my great uncle, an Elder. Only my grandma gives me crap since I'm not baptized (and that's an entirely different issue, ugh).

My only suggestion is that if you can't find a church, to surround your daughter with like-minded friends and family. There isn't a church for me to go to, so instead I went to gatherings with my uncle and his friends at a local trading post. That was more spiritual and educational than any church ever was for me. I know it's not the same as a physical chuch or sorts, but it's a start. I know, I'm no help at all. I have no knowledge of churches, sorry.

katiewhompus · July 2010

Winchester...but maybe we could find something in the middle...

Oh, and you will have pm in 5 minutes...

tidetravel · July 2010

Seshat - you're actually a great help, thank you. I've always been facinated with Native American culture, and really wanted to learn some of their teachings. It wasn't until I started looking into it that I realized that you really can't "learn," you just have to "be." Many tribes are very guarded about their beliefs, and unless you are related, or in many cases, brought up in the culture, you can't just be taught.

mysticl · July 2010

Definately house of worship shop. Keep in mind that some Christian Churches may not welcome you if they learn your faith. I used to know a pastor through a previous job who I found out preached against Wiccans as part of some of his services and showed movies about Wicca that scared the children in the congregation.

[Deleted User] · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_can-ask-serious-question-starting-religious-debate-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:fce3e18f-1220-44a8-b565-5c863ca0d8e0Post:5f50ce04-e067-4b1a-acc9-9c562329a9ea">Re: Can I ask a serious question without starting a religious debate? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]Seshat - you're actually a great help, thank you. I've always been facinated with Native American culture, and really wanted to learn some of their teachings. It wasn't until I started looking into it that I realized that you really can't "learn," you just have to "be." Many tribes are very guarded about their beliefs, and unless you are related, or in many cases, brought up in the culture, you can't just be taught.
Posted by tidetravel[/QUOTE]

Well, yes and no. You can "learn" the legends, the language, the belief structure behind the spirituality, etc, but like any religion it's up to you whether or not you believe in them and live by them. But on the other hand, none of it will make sense if you're raised to believe differently.

We did a traditional blanket ceremony for our wedding and it meant so much to me. When my great-uncle was completing the ceremony, two red-shouldered hawks flew over. Our guests were like, "Oh wow, that was cool" and moved on while my uncle and I were holding back tears. So yeah, you just "are" in some respects. Either you feel it or you don't.

Luckily I found the one man who believes in the same things as me.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · July 2010

Personally, I'm looking into the UU church. It's very liberal and laid back. The opposite of dogmatic Christian. FI was raised Catholic and I was raised Presbyterian and we are both agnostic. However, we'd also prefer to raise our children in some sort of spiritual community.

Good luck, Tide! Let us know how it goes.

tidetravel · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_can-ask-serious-question-starting-religious-debate-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:fce3e18f-1220-44a8-b565-5c863ca0d8e0Post:6680f727-02ac-4fa6-ba9e-495dfc2532f3">Re: Can I ask a serious question without starting a religious debate? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Can I ask a serious question without starting a religious debate? (long) : Well, yes and no. You can "learn" the legends, the language, the belief structure behind the spirituality, etc, but like any religion it's up to you whether or not you believe in them and live by them. But on the other hand, none of it will make sense if you're raised to believe differently. We did a traditional blanket ceremony for our wedding and it meant so much to me. When my great-uncle was completing the ceremony, two red-shouldered hawks flew over. <strong>Our guests were like, "Oh wow, that was cool" and moved on while my uncle and I were holding back tears</strong>. So yeah, you just "are" in some respects. Either you feel it or you don't. Luckily I found the one man who believes in the same things as me.
Posted by Seshat411[/QUOTE]
That's awesome :) The same sort of thing happened to us : a lone spotted fawn came out to graze in the field behind us during the ceremony. Everyone was like, "ooh. Look at the baby deer." To DH and I, it meant a lot more, as deer are considered sacred animals in celtic myth.

[Deleted User] · July 2010

You would have loved where we got married then--there were deer everywhere, especially when we woke up in the morning. We were on 50 acres by the river, way out in the boonies, so lots of wooded areas and horse farms. DH and I spent our wedding morning watching the deer and wild turkeys.

Can I ask a serious question without starting a religious debate? (long)

Re: Can I ask a serious question without starting a religious debate? (long)

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