Can I ask a serious question without starting a religious debate? (long)

shellydiane820

I sent you a fb message since this thread hasn't been updated in a while

EDIT:  Well, I guess its alive and well, since I wrote an essay on fb!

SO SAY WE ALL!

missy68

Tide, if you're still checking this, I was raised in the United Methodist church, and I've found them to be fairly tolerant of all. You do not have to be a member of the church to take communion if you desire (which was a big deal when we did a youth ministry with a drug rehabilitation facility) and they are very welcoming. I think lots of folks have found it to be a good place to visit. But, it is a specific religion, so, there's that.
Just another idea for you

SarahPLiz

I agree with the Unitarian suggestion. I contemplated having their pastor marry us, but FI wasn't down for that. He really doesn't like any form of organized religion. He didn't believe me that UU was about the most unorganized religion out there.

tidetravel

Missy - thank you   I'll keep that in mind, as well.

Celles

If FI and I were pagans, then I would make every effort to raise my daughter as a pagan, too.  I don't think I could teach her one worldview while placing my faith in another; it would feel too much like a lie.

I think a UU church could be a good compromise, since UU's don't push a particular religious doctrine.  But any ostensibly Christian church, I know I would have to shy away from.  I couldn't teach my child something that I felt was wrong -- even if it meant giving her a sense of spiritual community I felt I was lacking, along with a solid moral foundation.

That said, my FI (a non-practicing Catholic) holds the opposite point of view.  He's willing to accept and perpetuate a lie in order to retain the community, culture and moral teachings of his religion.  This is an ongoing issue for us; I've posted about it (albeit on E.) before.

Edit: I'm not trying to come off as judgmental, or to spark a religious debate.  I'm sorry if it seems that I am!  I really struggle to articulate my thoughts about religion in a respectful way.  FI says I'm more of an anti-theist than an atheist, but I really don't want or mean to be perceived that way. 

katiewhompus

*scoots in between Seshat and tide * Hello like-minded friends, where have you been all my life?

When I went through my religious/spiritual question and answer period I was really drawn to books about Native American cultures as well as movies, websites, pow wows, anything I could get my hands on. My dad had always taken me to powwows growing up but the spiritual aspect was something that was very shut off in my family. Tracing back we can find a connection with either the Lakota or Ojibewa tribes but because my grandfather renounced all connections and got rid of any documentation we have no proof. Books and pow wows are a great way to learn and begin.

I wanted to do your ceremony so badly Tide, but I think my family would have freaked. We did have a wedding rug as well as using the Wedding Prayer as one of our readings but I didn't want to push too much on them. Grandma cried over the phone when she heard it wasn't in a church.

The only UU churches I can find even remotely between us are Fairfax and Reston, boo.

tidetravel

Celles - I think the same basic conundrum resides between DH and I, only our roles are reversed.  I would be more open to her going to a Christian church, (assuming that I could find one that's basic moral compass was in line with my own), even though I don't believe in the Christian faith, whereas DH would probably not feel comfortable. there. 

I don't see it as perpetuating a lie;  I see it as giving her a foundation.  I fully plan on exposing her to different religions, and different religious celebrations.  I just recognize that with being pagan, we can't really give her the spiritual guidence that I feel she would need.  We've always kind of felt our way through our beliefs, since there really is no organized grove in our area.  Without structure, I don't know that she would learn much of anything. 

Either way, I'm very grateful for all of you that chimed in.  It's given me a lot to think about.

SarahPLiz

According to this:
http://www.uua.org/aboutus/findcongregation/index.php

there are 27 UU congregations in Virginia. Maybe one is near you!

tidetravel

Haha, Katie.  You should have seen/heard some of the objections from our family   When it was over though, everyone said that it was one of the most beautiful wedding ceremonies they had ever been a part of.

Yeah.  Reston and Herndon are a little far out. 

katiewhompus

I also think (and this is just me thinking and not an organization view) that you can attend a church without believing, at least for a time, because how else will you come to believe? If someone came to me and said "I don't understand how you believe in spirits, but I want to learn" I would sit down and talk. I think churches should be the same way. Don't reject me because I don't believe like you, but teach me where you are coming from because I may like where you are going.

Tide, you could look into getting the kid versions of Bible stories too. Things like David and Goliath, Noah's Arc, etc and read them to her. That way she can grow up with all of the common stories and religious history even if not attending a church.

scoetto

My mom is one religion and my dad was raised another. What they were/are, I can't tell you. My mom was (is) the one who was more concerned with bringing up her daughters in a religious environment. My parents brought us to several different churches growing up so we could experience, learn, and choose for ourselves. The church we ended up at was Unitarian.

My thoughts/beliefs are different from when I was younger, but I also studied world religion in college, and also find it to be quite fascinating. Taryn is lucky to have you as her Momma.

(PS - I started replying to about 30 min ago. You can blame Whit for calling & distracting me )

skippylouwho

Regarding the A-men, Ah-men. I was taught you say A-men but you sing Ah-men. That wasn't through our church but through various music lessons (voice and several instruments).

katiewhompus

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_can-ask-serious-question-starting-religious-debate-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:fce3e18f-1220-44a8-b565-5c863ca0d8e0Post:74591d2d-c53f-48d3-b783-c0072324aa31">Re: Can I ask a serious question without starting a religious debate? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]Regarding the A-men, Ah-men. I was taught you say A-men but you sing Ah-men. That wasn't through our church but through various music lessons (voice and several instruments).
Posted by skippylouwho[/QUOTE]

Well, singing Ayyyymen would not sound nearly as pretty :)

tpender13

I'm coming in on this kind of late, but the one church that I remember feeling comfortable in that I can really remember was the Baha'i temple when I visited Chicago. I have to admit I don't know too much about it, but people of all different religions go there -- Christians, Jews, Muslims, whatever. It's weird because there were some rules that they are very strict on, like anything spoken or sung in the sanctuary has to be taken from scripture of some type. But even though they were strict about that, it was comforting that they were accepting of so many different people and beliefs that I felt very at peace. I know it was the only big, fancy temple of it's kind in North America, but maybe there's a smaller one like it near you.

maybe984

Whoever suggested a "non-denominational" Christian church has apparently gone to some VERY different non-denominational churches than I have. Maybe it's a regional thing, but 9 out of 10 churches I know that call themselves "non-denominational" are fundamentalist groups that believe the Bible is the infallible word of God and that everything in the Bible is to be taken 100% literally. I don't think they'd be very accepting of your pagan roots or your intent for your child's upbringing.

[Deleted User]

Katie--my family's paperwork was destroyed too. My great-grandma was adopted by white parents and they burned all her paperwork to the Cherokee nation. We have traces of Creek in our heritage, but primarily Cherokee.

I've been to some private powwows (only reason I could get in was because of my uncle), but I rarely go to the commercialized ones (like the ones they hold in Cherokee, NC, where they pay you to enter). Most of the time it's what my uncle calls "The white man's search for an Indian name" and it makes me sad. On the other hand, they are a great way to learn about the culture and can be absolutely fascinating when done right. So I'm torn. 

Perhaps I should have everyone start calling me by my Cherokee name now, Usti Kamama ("Little Butterfly").

antimony

Q. What is a Unitarian Universalist? 
A.  An atheist with children.

Also, UU churches vary a lot within the movement, so shopping among them is a good thing if you have the option. 

The UU sunday school program does big units on all the major religions partly to let kids know what's out there -- it doesn't consider it a failure of the church if they leave to find their own path somewhere else.  (And this includes paganism and atheism.) 

katiewhompus

Seshat, I completely agree. We went to the show at Cherokee as well as the show at the Wisconsin Dells and while I thought they were beautiful and interesting they were definitely a "show".
My favorite pow wow's ever were the Rappahannock powwows near my house in high school. The tribe's leader (female wohoo) always invited us and it was great seeing an invitation only/family gathering. It was such a different vibe. She also got her photo put up in the Smithsonian Museum which was awesome to see

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_can-ask-serious-question-starting-religious-debate-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:fce3e18f-1220-44a8-b565-5c863ca0d8e0Post:a2e3d7b0-fa96-4bd6-a305-7751fa595cd7">Re: Can I ask a serious question without starting a religious debate? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm coming in on this kind of late, but the one church that I remember feeling comfortable in that I can really remember was the Baha'i temple when I visited Chicago. I have to admit I don't know too much about it, but people of all different religions go there -- Christians, Jews, Muslims, whatever. It's weird because there were some rules that they are very strict on, like anything spoken or sung in the sanctuary has to be taken from scripture of some type. But even though they were strict about that, it was comforting that they were accepting of so many different people and beliefs that I felt very at peace. I know it was the only big, fancy temple of it's kind in North America, but maybe there's a smaller one like it near you.
Posted by tpender13[/QUOTE]

I have a friend who's Baha'i (and getting married in a Baha'i ceremony in August) and is currently working at the Baha'i world center in Haifa, Israel. She was raised Episcopalian and has always been fairly religous, but eventually found that Baha'ism was more in line with her beliefs. It was founded in Iran/Persia by former Muslims. It's more structured than the UU Church, I think, and has more of a middle eastern flair, but it also takes texts and beliefs from many different belief systems.

mwhitson14

I attend a non denominational church, and I love it. We are very laid back, accepting of all types of religions, lifestyles, etc. Good luck

Piru

So I don't know a ton about paganism, but I wasn't aware church was a requirement or even very common. Personally, I think that if that is the religion that speaks the most to you than you should share those teachings with her on your own. If she decides to try different paths as she gets older, let her. If a friend invites her to their church, encourage it.

This is coming from a Catholic turned atheist, if it makes any difference.