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What to do about age cutoff?

First off I promise I used the search bar.  I found a lot about deciding between high schoolers/college kids and younger siblings, with a lot of "invite the 16 year old but not the 2 year old" responses, but nothing quite similar enough for me to be absolutely certain about what to do, and I really don't want to be rude.  

I'm hoping to have a cut off age of about 10 for my wedding (Exceptions would be made if the kid was within a few months of being 10)-  I am looking at campsite venues and have found one that I'm 99.9% sure I'll book- pretty much a done deal unless I went to look there and it was like, on fire or something.  There would be woods nearby and a body of water, and fire pits.  I just really would not feel comfortable at all with young kids in this environment, given that they could wander off and get lost, try to go swimming, or get burned- even if the parents did watch their kids very well (Which they seldom do at family functions- they kinda just run loose, and a lot of the families have like 5 kids so it's hard for one couple to get 5 kids to not run around like kids)  it only takes a minute of mom being distracted for a kid to get burned on the fire pits.  I feel that 10 is the youngest I'd feel comfortable having there, and while it would be easy to have the cutoff be 18 or 16, three of my bridesmaids will be under those ages, and the kids in my family who are around the same age as my bridesmaids are extremely well-behaved, like mini adults, so there is really no reason for me to not want them there.  Not to mention that if I invite all kids, I will be adding a huge number of people onto my guest list, and I really just can't afford to invite them all.  While I wouldn't dream of putting this over 10 rule in writing, I'm going to let my Nana know (I have to let her know since she's helping with the guest list) which means that the entire family is going to find out from her.

I'll give a specific example- One girl will be 12 by the time I get married.  She is the oldest of five, the youngest will be 2 by the time the wedding comes.  She is very mature for her age, and her father goes out of his way to show that he is extremely proud of her maturity.  I think she would be absolutely fine and would have fun at the wedding, so I would love to include her.  But a 2 year old running around near woods and a lake and fire would scare the absolute shit out of me, and with 3 other young kids to look after assuming I invite everyone, there is no way the parents are going to be able to reign everyone in all night, unless they grew extra arms. 

Is this just a tough shit sort of situation where I have to not invite the 12 year old because her siblings are too young, or if it's known (Without putting it in writing, obviously) that the cut off is 10, would it be passable, if not 100% the most polite thing to do?  I'm willing to bend rules a bit here but not willing to be flat out rude, and I'm not sure where this falls.  Also, if the rule is over 10 only, would I end up in an entirely new etiquette situation if the parents had NO kids invited even though the 12 year old would definitely be old enough?  I feel that the father would feel very hurt, given how proud he was of his daughter's maturity and excellent behavior, if despite being old enough, she was still excluded.  I'm having a really hard time with this because they both are super nice and I really don't want to hurt any feelings, but I can't budge on age.  It would require inviting more people than I can afford, there are a LOT of little kids in the family.  
If this helps, the last family function I was at was more formal than usual, and this 12 year old was actually the only kid even there, everyone left their younger kids at home.  
Edited because title had typo.  
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Re: What to do about age cutoff?

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    This is going to sound weird, but can you post the ages of all the kids in question, grouped by family?

    The best way to choose an age cut-off is to split up the fewest families, which it sounds like you're trying to do. I think that you're getting bogged down a bit too much in trying to make exceptions. Exceptions are often fine, but it's starting to defeat the whole purpose of an age cut-off. One of the issues with an age cut-off is that you WILL be excluding some of the well-behaved children.

    Finally, are all the kids in question family members? For example, only one of our underaged guests will not be related to us (my friend is pregnant, may or may not bring her baby). The rest are my step-niece and our 1st cousins. But you don't have to invite ALL kids to invite some of them; you could always just invite kids who are cousins, or nieces/nephews.
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    edited January 2014
    I'm with @Phira -- list the kids by age/family (like, Smith family, five kids, ages 2, 4, 7, 9, and 12), and tell us if they're related to you or not.

    ETA: The more I thought about it, the better off you're going to be doing all or nothing. If the 12-year-old is well-behaved but the four other kids aren't or are under your age cut-off, just don't invite them at all, but don't split up the kids like that. 

    You have posted a lot about not liking kids and not wanting them at your wedding and not thinking they can be well-behaved or not thinking their parents are going to watch them -- and that's all totally fine. But I really think, given the situation, you're better off not inviting any kids other than the people in your WP/kids who are that age.

    Set the cut-off limit at the age of the youngest BM, which, yes, excludes the 12-year-old, but that's OK because there won't be other kids younger than that age there to offend her father.

    And frankly -- regardless of how proud her father is of her maturity, he still doesn't get to demand that she be invited to something or be butt-hurt that she isn't.
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    I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'
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    @scribe95 I actually was going to suggest that she just trust parents to either look after their kids or leave 'em at home, but it sounds like she's dealing with budget issues as well.

    Also, I was thinking, OP, that instead of worrying too much about the age cut-off affecting your bridesmaids ... just make THEM the exception and go with no one under 18 besides them. And I agree with @HisGirlFriday13 and forgot to make it clear in my first post: basically, if you're struggling with the cut-off mostly because of this 12-year-old, then don't invite the 12-year-old. You need to make this a real age cut-off and not a subjective maturity cut-off. You're more likely to offend parents if maturity is a consideration.

    Case in point: three of my cousins are little nightmares who run around destroying everything they touch. They were not invited to my brother's wedding because of his age cut-off (no one under 16). My aunt and uncle are still unhappy about that, even though it's been 3 years, and have repeatedly mentioned (not to my brother's face) that they don't understand why their kids weren't invited. They knew that the age cut-off was because my brother and exSIL didn't want do deal with children running up and down the venue and jumping in the pool (e.g. they knew it had to do with maturity and not the budget or venue size). They just really didn't believe that their kids were that poorly behaved.

    So if you try to make things about maturity, and make exceptions to your cut-off based on that, the parents of the other kids may find out and will likely be upset. Not all parents are oblivious to their children's bad behavior, but it's just not very wonderful to find out that exceptions weren't made for your children because you think they're badly behaved.
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    edited January 2014
    ETA: Took me a while to list this and more people responded while I was writing-

    I have posted a lot about poorly behaved kids in my family- it's always the really young ones, the older ones tend to be ok.  While I was writing this list I realized my under 10 thing totally falls apart since they're all so close- this is the first time I've written it all out and had it in front of me, so yeah, I think it would just be best to not invite kids at all given that this list just gave me a headache.  I thought having the rule just be 10 or over would make it seem more fair if I enforced it for everyone, but now I doubt it.  The decision is honestly scaring me a bit, though, given that everyone is so family-oriented and is totally going to side-eye me not inviting kids.  They're also used to really huge expensive  weddings in which people could afford to invite all of the kids, so this is going to be new to them.  I feel bad, some of the older kids act like mini adults, but the little ones just run wild- and they totally have a track record for getting hurt, at least one does every time they all get together.  So not adding fire into that equation. 

    They're ALL family members.  On my dad's side.  Mom's side only has one kid who will be 3, but this list doesn't even include the kids in FI's family- I'm leaving it up to him to make the list for his family.  These people are all cousins or aunts or uncles, so after listing Fi and I's siblings I'll just do numbers for each family with letters for the kids' names and the age they will be when I get married.  And I totally know I'm forgetting someone, just can't figure out who.  
    My sister will be 13, my brother will be 15, Fi's two sisters will be 13 and 14, Fi's brother will be 15. My sister is also a bridesmaid.

    1. 
    a is over 18 and a bridesmaid
    b- 15 (She's a bridesmaid)
    c- 9 

    2.
    a-12
    b. 8 or 9 (I don't know b or c's birthdays so I'm not positive)
    c. 7 or 8  
    d.5
    e-2

    3.
    a.9
    b.5
    c.2


    4.
    a.14
    b.9
    c.7

    5.
    Now I'm getting foggy, but there are two kids in this family, both will be around 12-13.

    6.
    a.7
    b.4


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    I agree with PP's, have the BM's be the exception and don't invite any other kids.  I think that is the best solution. . . or at least the one likely to minimize the headaches.  Plus, that cuts 16 ppl from the list.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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    ETA: Took me a while to list this and more people responded while I was writing-

    I have posted a lot about poorly behaved kids in my family- it's always the really young ones, the older ones tend to be ok.  While I was writing this list I realized my under 10 thing totally falls apart since they're all so close- this is the first time I've written it all out and had it in front of me, so yeah, I think it would just be best to not invite kids at all given that this list just gave me a headache.  I thought having the rule just be 10 or over would make it seem more fair if I enforced it for everyone, but now I doubt it.  The decision is honestly scaring me a bit, though, given that everyone is so family-oriented and is totally going to side-eye me not inviting kids.  They're also used to really huge expensive  weddings in which people could afford to invite all of the kids, so this is going to be new to them.  I feel bad, some of the older kids act like mini adults, but the little ones just run wild- and they totally have a track record for getting hurt, at least one does every time they all get together.  So not adding fire into that equation. 

    They're ALL family members.  On my dad's side.  Mom's side only has one kid who will be 3, but this list doesn't even include the kids in FI's family- I'm leaving it up to him to make the list for his family.  These people are all cousins or aunts or uncles, so after listing Fi and I's siblings I'll just do numbers for each family with letters for the kids' names and the age they will be when I get married.  And I totally know I'm forgetting someone, just can't figure out who.  
    My sister will be 13, my brother will be 15, Fi's two sisters will be 13 and 14, Fi's brother will be 15. My sister is also a bridesmaid.

    1. 
    a is over 18 and a bridesmaid
    b- 15 (She's a bridesmaid)
    c- 9 

    2.
    a-12
    b. 8 or 9 (I don't know b or c's birthdays so I'm not positive)
    c. 7 or 8  
    d.5
    e-2

    3.
    a.9
    b.5
    c.2


    4.
    a.14
    b.9
    c.7

    5.
    Now I'm getting foggy, but there are two kids in this family, both will be around 12-13.

    6.
    a.7
    b.4


    I don't mean to be blunt or rude, but that is a freaking terrible idea. Seriously, horrible idea. If your family sees your FI's family got to bring THEIR 10-year-old kid and YOUR FAMILY didn't get to bring THEIR 10-year-old kid, there's going to be hurt feelings -- and rightly so, because then obviously SOME kids got to come, and it's a family thing.
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    I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'
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    Yeah, it DEFINITELY sounds like a seriously messy situation! I do think that it's smart to let your fiance figure out his side, although I'd try to get the same age cut-off for both sides if possible. Although I'd also go with the party line, "Due to our budget, we couldn't afford to invite every child. We're really sorry, and we hope you understand."

    I would do a cut-off of 13 (very Jewish), but it depends on family #5

    If family #5 will have 13-year-olds or older: have a cut off at 13
    #1: everyone (make an exception for the sibling of the bridesmaids)
    #2: no one (sorry to the 12-year-old)
    #3: no one
    #4: just the 14-year-old
    #5: everyone
    #6: no one

    No matter what cut-off you do, I'd say that families #3 and #6 are going to be below the cut-off. Obviously, making an exception for the 9-year-old sibling of the bridesmaids is your choice; you may want to leave them off and then make the exception if their parents ask. Making the exception leaves you with the fewest divided families with this particular age cut-off.

    Now, here's where things get fuzzy--if the kids in family #5 are both 12 or one is 12, here are some options:

    1) Have 12 as the age cut-off. Invite the 12-year-old from family #12, and then both kids from family #5. Obviously, you have an additional divided family here. This may work nicely if you want to invite the 12-year-old and think her parents would be totally cool bringing just her and not her sibs.

    2) Have 14 as the cut-off. Now, family #1 (with or without the 9-year-old) and the 14-year-old are your only kids besides your siblings. Yes--you can have a different age cut-off for your siblings and for your cousins/other family!

    3) If you're not all that invested in inviting the 14-year-old, or you don't want to split up families, have the age cut-off be 18 (or 15, if you think the 14-year-old's parents will be chill about just missing the cut-off) and anyone who complains will be told that the only exceptions were made for siblings and people in the wedding party. Then, if you make an exception for the 9-year-old, you're not splitting any families. Alternatively, you could ask the 9-year-old to be a flower girl or ring bearer, thus adding them to the wedding party and making it easier to explain the exception.

    I hope this is helpful! Your family makes mine seem small!
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    lyndausvi said:
    ETA: Took me a while to list this and more people responded while I was writing-

    I have posted a lot about poorly behaved kids in my family- it's always the really young ones, the older ones tend to be ok.  While I was writing this list I realized my under 10 thing totally falls apart since they're all so close- this is the first time I've written it all out and had it in front of me, so yeah, I think it would just be best to not invite kids at all given that this list just gave me a headache.  I thought having the rule just be 10 or over would make it seem more fair if I enforced it for everyone, but now I doubt it.  The decision is honestly scaring me a bit, though, given that everyone is so family-oriented and is totally going to side-eye me not inviting kids.  They're also used to really huge expensive  weddings in which people could afford to invite all of the kids, so this is going to be new to them.  I feel bad, some of the older kids act like mini adults, but the little ones just run wild- and they totally have a track record for getting hurt, at least one does every time they all get together.  So not adding fire into that equation. 

    They're ALL family members.  On my dad's side.  Mom's side only has one kid who will be 3, but this list doesn't even include the kids in FI's family- I'm leaving it up to him to make the list for his family.  These people are all cousins or aunts or uncles, so after listing Fi and I's siblings I'll just do numbers for each family with letters for the kids' names and the age they will be when I get married.  And I totally know I'm forgetting someone, just can't figure out who.  
    My sister will be 13, my brother will be 15, Fi's two sisters will be 13 and 14, Fi's brother will be 15. My sister is also a bridesmaid.

    1. 
    a is over 18 and a bridesmaid
    b- 15 (She's a bridesmaid)
    c- 9 

    2.
    a-12
    b. 8 or 9 (I don't know b or c's birthdays so I'm not positive)
    c. 7 or 8  
    d.5
    e-2

    3.
    a.9
    b.5
    c.2


    4.
    a.14
    b.9
    c.7

    5.
    Now I'm getting foggy, but there are two kids in this family, both will be around 12-13.

    6.
    a.7
    b.4


    I don't mean to be blunt or rude, but that is a freaking terrible idea. Seriously, horrible idea. If your family sees your FI's family got to bring THEIR 10-year-old kid and YOUR FAMILY didn't get to bring THEIR 10-year-old kid, there's going to be hurt feelings -- and rightly so, because then obviously SOME kids got to come, and it's a family thing.
    What she said
    I don't think I was entirely clear, whatever rules I enforce as far as kids/no kids would apply to both mine and FI's family, I just meant that I didn't have a list of kids in FI's family because FI hand't provided one- I was planning on doing a list of who in my family I feel I should invite, and have FI do the same with his, then combine them and make cuts if necessary, meaning if I had decided to do just over 10  and he had some younger kids, we'd have to discuss that and be consistent.  I should have clarified that in my post, sorry!  
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    AH! OK. Then nevermind. Your post definitely made it seem like you were cutting out kids from your family but letting your FI maybe invite kids in his family, and I was thinking, "Oh, jeebus, that's a recipe for disaster" 

    But if the rule is enforced equally across both families, you're fine.
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    I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'
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    I think you either invite them all (and let the parents, you know, parent the kids at the campsite!) or have a kid-free wedding.  There's no fair, middle ground in your case.
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    First off I promise I used the search bar.  I found a lot about deciding between high schoolers/college kids and younger siblings, with a lot of "invite the 16 year old but not the 2 year old" responses, but nothing quite similar enough for me to be absolutely certain about what to do, and I really don't want to be rude.  

    I'm hoping to have a cut off age of about 10 for my wedding (Exceptions would be made if the kid was within a few months of being 10)-  I am looking at campsite venues and have found one that I'm 99.9% sure I'll book- pretty much a done deal unless I went to look there and it was like, on fire or something.  There would be woods nearby and a body of water, and fire pits.  I just really would not feel comfortable at all with young kids in this environment, given that they could wander off and get lost, try to go swimming, or get burned- even if the parents did watch their kids very well (Which they seldom do at family functions- they kinda just run loose, and a lot of the families have like 5 kids so it's hard for one couple to get 5 kids to not run around like kids)  it only takes a minute of mom being distracted for a kid to get burned on the fire pits.  I feel that 10 is the youngest I'd feel comfortable having there, and while it would be easy to have the cutoff be 18 or 16, three of my bridesmaids will be under those ages, and the kids in my family who are around the same age as my bridesmaids are extremely well-behaved, like mini adults, so there is really no reason for me to not want them there.  Not to mention that if I invite all kids, I will be adding a huge number of people onto my guest list, and I really just can't afford to invite them all.  While I wouldn't dream of putting this over 10 rule in writing, I'm going to let my Nana know (I have to let her know since she's helping with the guest list) which means that the entire family is going to find out from her.

    I'll give a specific example- One girl will be 12 by the time I get married.  She is the oldest of five, the youngest will be 2 by the time the wedding comes.  She is very mature for her age, and her father goes out of his way to show that he is extremely proud of her maturity.  I think she would be absolutely fine and would have fun at the wedding, so I would love to include her.  But a 2 year old running around near woods and a lake and fire would scare the absolute shit out of me, and with 3 other young kids to look after assuming I invite everyone, there is no way the parents are going to be able to reign everyone in all night, unless they grew extra arms. 

    Is this just a tough shit sort of situation where I have to not invite the 12 year old because her siblings are too young, or if it's known (Without putting it in writing, obviously) that the cut off is 10, would it be passable, if not 100% the most polite thing to do?  I'm willing to bend rules a bit here but not willing to be flat out rude, and I'm not sure where this falls.  Also, if the rule is over 10 only, would I end up in an entirely new etiquette situation if the parents had NO kids invited even though the 12 year old would definitely be old enough?  I feel that the father would feel very hurt, given how proud he was of his daughter's maturity and excellent behavior, if despite being old enough, she was still excluded.  I'm having a really hard time with this because they both are super nice and I really don't want to hurt any feelings, but I can't budge on age.  It would require inviting more people than I can afford, there are a LOT of little kids in the family.  
    If this helps, the last family function I was at was more formal than usual, and this 12 year old was actually the only kid even there, everyone left their younger kids at home.  
    Edited because title had typo.  
    Ok, So from reading I am getting the feeling that you don't like kids. Ok Fine.

    But don't use the bolded excuse (Yes Excuse, that is all this is) I am a Girl Guide leader and use to work with kids for a living. I have taken groups (ages 5-19) of up to 40 kid out camping with two leaders (myself and one other) and guess what none of them fell in the fire, got eaten by the lake or got lost.

    IMHO just say "we don't want kids", don't list the bullshit reason.
    Also I agree with the PP's age cut offs.

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    mimiphin said:
    First off I promise I used the search bar.  I found a lot about deciding between high schoolers/college kids and younger siblings, with a lot of "invite the 16 year old but not the 2 year old" responses, but nothing quite similar enough for me to be absolutely certain about what to do, and I really don't want to be rude.  

    I'm hoping to have a cut off age of about 10 for my wedding (Exceptions would be made if the kid was within a few months of being 10)-  I am looking at campsite venues and have found one that I'm 99.9% sure I'll book- pretty much a done deal unless I went to look there and it was like, on fire or something.  There would be woods nearby and a body of water, and fire pits.  I just really would not feel comfortable at all with young kids in this environment, given that they could wander off and get lost, try to go swimming, or get burned- even if the parents did watch their kids very well (Which they seldom do at family functions- they kinda just run loose, and a lot of the families have like 5 kids so it's hard for one couple to get 5 kids to not run around like kids)  it only takes a minute of mom being distracted for a kid to get burned on the fire pits.  I feel that 10 is the youngest I'd feel comfortable having there, and while it would be easy to have the cutoff be 18 or 16, three of my bridesmaids will be under those ages, and the kids in my family who are around the same age as my bridesmaids are extremely well-behaved, like mini adults, so there is really no reason for me to not want them there.  Not to mention that if I invite all kids, I will be adding a huge number of people onto my guest list, and I really just can't afford to invite them all.  While I wouldn't dream of putting this over 10 rule in writing, I'm going to let my Nana know (I have to let her know since she's helping with the guest list) which means that the entire family is going to find out from her.

    I'll give a specific example- One girl will be 12 by the time I get married.  She is the oldest of five, the youngest will be 2 by the time the wedding comes.  She is very mature for her age, and her father goes out of his way to show that he is extremely proud of her maturity.  I think she would be absolutely fine and would have fun at the wedding, so I would love to include her.  But a 2 year old running around near woods and a lake and fire would scare the absolute shit out of me, and with 3 other young kids to look after assuming I invite everyone, there is no way the parents are going to be able to reign everyone in all night, unless they grew extra arms. 

    Is this just a tough shit sort of situation where I have to not invite the 12 year old because her siblings are too young, or if it's known (Without putting it in writing, obviously) that the cut off is 10, would it be passable, if not 100% the most polite thing to do?  I'm willing to bend rules a bit here but not willing to be flat out rude, and I'm not sure where this falls.  Also, if the rule is over 10 only, would I end up in an entirely new etiquette situation if the parents had NO kids invited even though the 12 year old would definitely be old enough?  I feel that the father would feel very hurt, given how proud he was of his daughter's maturity and excellent behavior, if despite being old enough, she was still excluded.  I'm having a really hard time with this because they both are super nice and I really don't want to hurt any feelings, but I can't budge on age.  It would require inviting more people than I can afford, there are a LOT of little kids in the family.  
    If this helps, the last family function I was at was more formal than usual, and this 12 year old was actually the only kid even there, everyone left their younger kids at home.  
    Edited because title had typo.  
    Ok, So from reading I am getting the feeling that you don't like kids. Ok Fine.

    But don't use the bolded excuse (Yes Excuse, that is all this is) I am a Girl Guide leader and use to work with kids for a living. I have taken groups (ages 5-19) of up to 40 kid out camping with two leaders (myself and one other) and guess what none of them fell in the fire, got eaten by the lake or got lost.

    IMHO just say "we don't want kids", don't list the bullshit reason.
    Also I agree with the PP's age cut offs.
    I have to disagree- every family function we have where the kids attend, the parents chat and drink while the kids run loose.  In your situation you monitor the kids to keep them safe and they respond to your authority, so it works.  I'm not saying no kid ever should be in the woods/near water/near fire, I'm saying knowing this crowd, I would not be comfortable.  Usually we gather in reception halls or at people's houses, and without fail, every single time a kid gets hurt because the parents aren't watching and they just do whatever they want.   I can't add fire into that equation.
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    mimiphin said:
    First off I promise I used the search bar.  I found a lot about deciding between high schoolers/college kids and younger siblings, with a lot of "invite the 16 year old but not the 2 year old" responses, but nothing quite similar enough for me to be absolutely certain about what to do, and I really don't want to be rude.  

    I'm hoping to have a cut off age of about 10 for my wedding (Exceptions would be made if the kid was within a few months of being 10)-  I am looking at campsite venues and have found one that I'm 99.9% sure I'll book- pretty much a done deal unless I went to look there and it was like, on fire or something.  There would be woods nearby and a body of water, and fire pits.  I just really would not feel comfortable at all with young kids in this environment, given that they could wander off and get lost, try to go swimming, or get burned- even if the parents did watch their kids very well (Which they seldom do at family functions- they kinda just run loose, and a lot of the families have like 5 kids so it's hard for one couple to get 5 kids to not run around like kids)  it only takes a minute of mom being distracted for a kid to get burned on the fire pits.  I feel that 10 is the youngest I'd feel comfortable having there, and while it would be easy to have the cutoff be 18 or 16, three of my bridesmaids will be under those ages, and the kids in my family who are around the same age as my bridesmaids are extremely well-behaved, like mini adults, so there is really no reason for me to not want them there.  Not to mention that if I invite all kids, I will be adding a huge number of people onto my guest list, and I really just can't afford to invite them all.  While I wouldn't dream of putting this over 10 rule in writing, I'm going to let my Nana know (I have to let her know since she's helping with the guest list) which means that the entire family is going to find out from her.

    I'll give a specific example- One girl will be 12 by the time I get married.  She is the oldest of five, the youngest will be 2 by the time the wedding comes.  She is very mature for her age, and her father goes out of his way to show that he is extremely proud of her maturity.  I think she would be absolutely fine and would have fun at the wedding, so I would love to include her.  But a 2 year old running around near woods and a lake and fire would scare the absolute shit out of me, and with 3 other young kids to look after assuming I invite everyone, there is no way the parents are going to be able to reign everyone in all night, unless they grew extra arms. 

    Is this just a tough shit sort of situation where I have to not invite the 12 year old because her siblings are too young, or if it's known (Without putting it in writing, obviously) that the cut off is 10, would it be passable, if not 100% the most polite thing to do?  I'm willing to bend rules a bit here but not willing to be flat out rude, and I'm not sure where this falls.  Also, if the rule is over 10 only, would I end up in an entirely new etiquette situation if the parents had NO kids invited even though the 12 year old would definitely be old enough?  I feel that the father would feel very hurt, given how proud he was of his daughter's maturity and excellent behavior, if despite being old enough, she was still excluded.  I'm having a really hard time with this because they both are super nice and I really don't want to hurt any feelings, but I can't budge on age.  It would require inviting more people than I can afford, there are a LOT of little kids in the family.  
    If this helps, the last family function I was at was more formal than usual, and this 12 year old was actually the only kid even there, everyone left their younger kids at home.  
    Edited because title had typo.  
    Ok, So from reading I am getting the feeling that you don't like kids. Ok Fine.

    But don't use the bolded excuse (Yes Excuse, that is all this is) I am a Girl Guide leader and use to work with kids for a living. I have taken groups (ages 5-19) of up to 40 kid out camping with two leaders (myself and one other) and guess what none of them fell in the fire, got eaten by the lake or got lost.

    IMHO just say "we don't want kids", don't list the bullshit reason.
    Also I agree with the PP's age cut offs.
    I have to disagree- every family function we have where the kids attend, the parents chat and drink while the kids run loose.  In your situation you monitor the kids to keep them safe and they respond to your authority, so it works.  I'm not saying no kid ever should be in the woods/near water/near fire, I'm saying knowing this crowd, I would not be comfortable.  Usually we gather in reception halls or at people's houses, and without fail, every single time a kid gets hurt because the parents aren't watching and they just do whatever they want.   I can't add fire into that equation.
      If a kid gets hurt then that's the parent's fault. not yours.

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    mimiphin said:
    mimiphin said:
    First off I promise I used the search bar.  I found a lot about deciding between high schoolers/college kids and younger siblings, with a lot of "invite the 16 year old but not the 2 year old" responses, but nothing quite similar enough for me to be absolutely certain about what to do, and I really don't want to be rude.  

    I'm hoping to have a cut off age of about 10 for my wedding (Exceptions would be made if the kid was within a few months of being 10)-  I am looking at campsite venues and have found one that I'm 99.9% sure I'll book- pretty much a done deal unless I went to look there and it was like, on fire or something.  There would be woods nearby and a body of water, and fire pits.  I just really would not feel comfortable at all with young kids in this environment, given that they could wander off and get lost, try to go swimming, or get burned- even if the parents did watch their kids very well (Which they seldom do at family functions- they kinda just run loose, and a lot of the families have like 5 kids so it's hard for one couple to get 5 kids to not run around like kids)  it only takes a minute of mom being distracted for a kid to get burned on the fire pits.  I feel that 10 is the youngest I'd feel comfortable having there, and while it would be easy to have the cutoff be 18 or 16, three of my bridesmaids will be under those ages, and the kids in my family who are around the same age as my bridesmaids are extremely well-behaved, like mini adults, so there is really no reason for me to not want them there.  Not to mention that if I invite all kids, I will be adding a huge number of people onto my guest list, and I really just can't afford to invite them all.  While I wouldn't dream of putting this over 10 rule in writing, I'm going to let my Nana know (I have to let her know since she's helping with the guest list) which means that the entire family is going to find out from her.

    I'll give a specific example- One girl will be 12 by the time I get married.  She is the oldest of five, the youngest will be 2 by the time the wedding comes.  She is very mature for her age, and her father goes out of his way to show that he is extremely proud of her maturity.  I think she would be absolutely fine and would have fun at the wedding, so I would love to include her.  But a 2 year old running around near woods and a lake and fire would scare the absolute shit out of me, and with 3 other young kids to look after assuming I invite everyone, there is no way the parents are going to be able to reign everyone in all night, unless they grew extra arms. 

    Is this just a tough shit sort of situation where I have to not invite the 12 year old because her siblings are too young, or if it's known (Without putting it in writing, obviously) that the cut off is 10, would it be passable, if not 100% the most polite thing to do?  I'm willing to bend rules a bit here but not willing to be flat out rude, and I'm not sure where this falls.  Also, if the rule is over 10 only, would I end up in an entirely new etiquette situation if the parents had NO kids invited even though the 12 year old would definitely be old enough?  I feel that the father would feel very hurt, given how proud he was of his daughter's maturity and excellent behavior, if despite being old enough, she was still excluded.  I'm having a really hard time with this because they both are super nice and I really don't want to hurt any feelings, but I can't budge on age.  It would require inviting more people than I can afford, there are a LOT of little kids in the family.  
    If this helps, the last family function I was at was more formal than usual, and this 12 year old was actually the only kid even there, everyone left their younger kids at home.  
    Edited because title had typo.  
    Ok, So from reading I am getting the feeling that you don't like kids. Ok Fine.

    But don't use the bolded excuse (Yes Excuse, that is all this is) I am a Girl Guide leader and use to work with kids for a living. I have taken groups (ages 5-19) of up to 40 kid out camping with two leaders (myself and one other) and guess what none of them fell in the fire, got eaten by the lake or got lost.

    IMHO just say "we don't want kids", don't list the bullshit reason.
    Also I agree with the PP's age cut offs.
    I have to disagree- every family function we have where the kids attend, the parents chat and drink while the kids run loose.  In your situation you monitor the kids to keep them safe and they respond to your authority, so it works.  I'm not saying no kid ever should be in the woods/near water/near fire, I'm saying knowing this crowd, I would not be comfortable.  Usually we gather in reception halls or at people's houses, and without fail, every single time a kid gets hurt because the parents aren't watching and they just do whatever they want.   I can't add fire into that equation.
      If a kid gets hurt then that's the parent's fault. not yours.
    That is true, but that wouldn't make me feel any less horrible if someone's kid got hurt, nor would it make me any less nervous the whole time.  
    image
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    @HaileyDancingBear -- you've made lots of comments on the forums before about not liking kids and not trusting their parents to watch them and not wanting kids there because you'll be worried about them and not enjoying yourself -- and ALLLLLLL of that is fine. You don't have to like kids or trust parents or invite kids.

    But @mimiphin is right that you're making excuses, and people are going to get their feelings hurt. They're going to see you saying, "This is too dangerous for kids if their parents aren't good parents," and their kids aren't going to be invited, and they're going to deduce that you think they're bad parents. And if they are truly "bad parents' where their kids can't go a weekend without getting hurt- and I'm talking about more than a scraped knee, and 'normal' active child accidents I would be concerned that you have a bigger issue here and may need to call CPS.
    Kids fall down, go boom its a part of growing up, but if its consisent like you are saying either 1. you are over reacting the the severity of the issue, or 2. CPS should be called...

    Just don't invite kids. Don't make excuses or offer half-hearted reasons or apologies. Just DON'T INVITE THE KIDS. Done. 

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    edited January 2014
    @HaileyDancingBear -- you've made lots of comments on the forums before about not liking kids and not trusting their parents to watch them and not wanting kids there because you'll be worried about them and not enjoying yourself -- and ALLLLLLL of that is fine. You don't have to like kids or trust parents or invite kids.

    But @mimiphin is right that you're making excuses, and people are going to get their feelings hurt. They're going to see you saying, "This is too dangerous for kids if their parents aren't good parents," and their kids aren't going to be invited, and they're going to deduce that you think they're bad parents. 

    Just don't invite kids. Don't make excuses or offer half-hearted reasons or apologies. Just DON'T INVITE THE KIDS. Done. 
    Oh I didn't plan on saying anything to the parents other than I can't afford to invite everyone I wanted to.  I know damn well that if I mentioned the venue wasn't appropriate that would open the door for parents to want their kid to be the exception, then get mad when they're not.  The stuff about the site being too dangerous or the kids being unattended is just me kinda venting here, partially because while you and PP's are right, and I've decided no kids whatsoever is the best route, I am definitely going to get shit for it.  Other weddings in the family have been huge, and invited everyone, including all the kids.  
    The 10 thing was me trying very hard to compromise, but it has too many problems of its own for me to do, so I'm glad I posted and got the advice I did before I went through with that.  I guess I'm not entirely happy with the word "Excuse" being used because it makes it sound like I'm making things up- which I'm not, those kids loose in the venue I'm looking at would in all honestly scare the absolute shit out of me, although I certainly wouldn't tell the parents that.  I can tell people are starting to get frustrated, and I'm sorry about that, it wasn't my intention. I was just trying to explain why I felt the way I did. 
    image
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    Skip the kids, and the headache.
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    This is too long... Give me three sentences and I'll give my opinion
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    This is too long... Give me three sentences and I'll give my opinion
    Having wedding at outdoor campsite and doesn't really want kids present.  Some kids are in WP, though.  Should she invite any kids, all kids, only WP kids?

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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    Only WP kids ... If you invite one outside WP, you have to invite all.
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    I would invite siblings and all the kids from family #1, since two of them are in the BP and you really shouldn't split up families.

    I agree that making the 9 yo flower girl/reader so she's *in* the wedding might be easier to explain to parents who complain.

    Don't tell the parents its about budget, they might just respond with trying to pay for the extra people.  Say something more along the lines of "We weren't able to invite everyone we would have liked to." and leave it at that.
    Formerly known as flutterbride2b
    image
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    This is too long... Give me three sentences and I'll give my opinion

    Having wedding at outdoor campsite and doesn't really want kids present.  Some kids are in WP, though.  Should she invite any kids, all kids, only WP kids?


    DO NOT ENGAGE, PLAY WITH, OR FEED THE TROLL!!!

    You know better than that. :)
    Anniversary

    image
    I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'
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    This is too long... Give me three sentences and I'll give my opinion
    Having wedding at outdoor campsite and doesn't really want kids present.  Some kids are in WP, though.  Should she invite any kids, all kids, only WP kids?
    DO NOT ENGAGE, PLAY WITH, OR FEED THE TROLL!!! You know better than that. :)
    But she's kind of funny...
    Anniversary
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    AddieCakeAddieCake member
    First Anniversary First Answer First Comment 5 Love Its
    edited January 2014
    I think no kids is the best option. 

    ETA: Except WP kids. 
    What did you think would happen if you walked up to a group of internet strangers and told them to get shoehorned by their lady doc?~StageManager14
    image
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    I would ask the sister of the girls in your WP to be a reader or flower girl. Then, invite only the children from that family, and your siblings. Done and done. Nobody will fault you for inviting only your immediate family and people in the wedding. (And if they do, they're being rude.)
    Daisypath Anniversary tickers
    eyeroll
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