FIL Problems - help!

nerdwife

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but this board seems to have the most upfront advice, so I figured I'd go for it. The situation is this: FI and I are planning on signing a contract for a venue this weekend (yay!). The venue permits a tasting before signing and FI and I thought it would be nice to have our parents come so they could feel involved (I know this is important to my mom and I didn't want to invite her and not them) and so we could have a second opinion before we sign. So we invited my parents and they are coming. We invited FI's parents and that did not go quite as well. 

Some background: we are paying for the wedding and it will be on the small side (currently 66 people on our list). We're working under the theory that while we could spend a little more on our wedding, what's important to us is that the people closest to us are there and that we don't deplete our savings. Well, FI's parents got wind of our small wedding (via his sister, who asked a ton of questions about who is invited and apparently felt the need to pass all of that information on, sooo we won't be telling her anything about our wedding again) and are pissed – they think that this cousin and that cousin need to be invited. FI explained to his dad that we have a budget and are not inviting all those people and they should understand since they also threw their own wedding. After that, I figured it would take some time for them to get used to the idea (like it did for my mom) and they would let it go. 

Well, fast forward to us inviting them to the tasting, and they bring it up again, except with much more intensity. They want us to wait and have a longer engagement so that we can afford the people they want invited. They even went ahead and made a list and reported back to FI that they have 66 people on their list but probably only 49 will come. WHAT. THAT IS LITERALLY THE SIZE OF OUR ENTIRE LIST. Sorry for internet yelling but I am pretty mad and would like to real life yell. 

They also complained about the fact that the venue is "too far" (it's one hour and fifteen minutes from their home, and they have to go there one time ever; no, they don't have any disabilities that would prevent their safe travel; some of their family actually lives quite close to the venue, so it's also not in defense of their whole side of the family having to travel; and our wedding will be 11:30-5:00 so they wouldn't even need a hotel room if they don't want to pay for one) and our engagement isn't long enough (pretty sure this is only because they want us to save more money to have their desired wedding; it will be a fourteen month engagement after two and half years of dating and twelve years of knowing each other, plus FI told them before he proposed to me and they were fully supportive). 

This was all via text and they said here is the number of people we have, it's important that you invite them or there will be "repercussions" (in regards to family members being mad at them, not like they are threatening us), and we really need to talk to them about this. My FI just responded "ok" because how much more could he explain to them via text? 

So the next day his mom texts him to say she wants to see us on Saturday. I told him hell no am I going but he has to go and tell them this is not up for debate or discussion. My logic for saying I won't go is I think that they're going to try once again to explain why it is oh so important that we invite their entire extended family and I super do not want to get dragged in, get into an argument with them, and potentially destroy what chance there may be that we have some future relationship.

I'm sorry this is super long but this is way more stressful than I anticipated it would be. Was I wrong to say he should go alone? Should I go with him? Either way, what is the best thing he or I could say to make them get it or at least back off? I know at the end of the day that since we're paying, we are the only ones in control of the guest list, but also at the end of the day, these are FI's parents, so any advice in dealing with this in a way that will cause the least aggravation will be very much appreciated.

TL;DR - FI's parents are demanding we invite cousins upon cousins but are not contributing to the wedding and are being generally unreasonable. How can we tell them no without doing a lot of relationship damage?

Jen4948

I don't think there is a way to tell them no without doing a lot of relationship damage.

That said, your FI needs to tell them very firmly, "No.  We are only inviting the people who are already on the list and are not going to wait and save to invite any more people.  We are not going to change our minds on this.  This is a final decision and a closed subject from now on."

luckya23

Jen4948 said:

I don't think there is a way to tell them no without doing a lot of relationship damage.

That said, your FI needs to tell them very firmly, "No.  We are only inviting the people who are already on the list and are not going to wait and save to invite any more people.  We are not going to change our minds on this.  This is a final decision and a closed subject from now on."

I think it's their insistence and demands doing the damage, not the OP's fault in saying no.

arrrghmatey

nerdwife said:

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but this board seems to have the most upfront advice, so I figured I'd go for it. The situation is this: FI and I are planning on signing a contract for a venue this weekend (yay!). The venue permits a tasting before signing and FI and I thought it would be nice to have our parents come so they could feel involved (I know this is important to my mom and I didn't want to invite her and not them) and so we could have a second opinion before we sign. So we invited my parents and they are coming. We invited FI's parents and that did not go quite as well. 

Some background: we are paying for the wedding and it will be on the small side (currently 66 people on our list). We're working under the theory that while we could spend a little more on our wedding, what's important to us is that the people closest to us are there and that we don't deplete our savings. Well, FI's parents got wind of our small wedding (via his sister, who asked a ton of questions about who is invited and apparently felt the need to pass all of that information on, sooo we won't be telling her anything about our wedding again) and are pissed – they think that this cousin and that cousin need to be invited. FI explained to his dad that we have a budget and are not inviting all those people and they should understand since they also threw their own wedding. After that, I figured it would take some time for them to get used to the idea (like it did for my mom) and they would let it go. 

Well, fast forward to us inviting them to the tasting, and they bring it up again, except with much more intensity. They want us to wait and have a longer engagement so that we can afford the people they want invited. They even went ahead and made a list and reported back to FI that they have 66 people on their list but probably only 49 will come. WHAT. THAT IS LITERALLY THE SIZE OF OUR ENTIRE LIST. Sorry for internet yelling but I am pretty mad and would like to real life yell. 

They also complained about the fact that the venue is "too far" (it's one hour and fifteen minutes from their home, and they have to go there one time ever; no, they don't have any disabilities that would prevent their safe travel; some of their family actually lives quite close to the venue, so it's also not in defense of their whole side of the family having to travel; and our wedding will be 11:30-5:00 so they wouldn't even need a hotel room if they don't want to pay for one) and our engagement isn't long enough (pretty sure this is only because they want us to save more money to have their desired wedding; it will be a fourteen month engagement after two and half years of dating and twelve years of knowing each other, plus FI told them before he proposed to me and they were fully supportive). 

This was all via text and they said here is the number of people we have, it's important that you invite them or there will be "repercussions" (in regards to family members being mad at them, not like they are threatening us), and we really need to talk to them about this. My FI just responded "ok" because how much more could he explain to them via text? 

So the next day his mom texts him to say she wants to see us on Saturday. I told him hell no am I going but he has to go and tell them this is not up for debate or discussion. My logic for saying I won't go is I think that they're going to try once again to explain why it is oh so important that we invite their entire extended family and I super do not want to get dragged in, get into an argument with them, and potentially destroy what chance there may be that we have some future relationship.

I'm sorry this is super long but this is way more stressful than I anticipated it would be. Was I wrong to say he should go alone? Should I go with him? Either way, what is the best thing he or I could say to make them get it or at least back off? I know at the end of the day that since we're paying, we are the only ones in control of the guest list, but also at the end of the day, these are FI's parents, so any advice in dealing with this in a way that will cause the least aggravation will be very much appreciated.

TL;DR - FI's parents are demanding we invite cousins upon cousins but are not contributing to the wedding and are being generally unreasonable. How can we tell them no without doing a lot of relationship damage?

The general rule is that those who pay have the say. That includes the guest list. If your FILs are not contributing, then you have every right to say, "Sorry, but we are staying within our budget and can't accommodate a larger guest list." Actually, your FI needs to tell them this, and not via text. He needs to call them up or meet with them in person, which it sounds like will happen soon.

In regards to the meeting. Do you think your FI will have any trouble standing up to his parents on this matter and staying firm to the decisions the two of you made? If he can handle this himself, then let him handle his parents. I'd only be worried that if he went by himself, he would start making all sorts of compromises with his parents, without you present, just to appease them. You two are a team on this, but your FI has to take the lead since they are his parents.

And FWIW, I think it is very smart of you to decide on a wedding that you want and within your budget to avoid going into debt. Again, since you and your FI are the only ones paying for this wedding, all of the decisions are yours. If your FILs don't like it, they can go suck an egg.

Pupatella

nerdwife said:

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but this board seems to have the most upfront advice, so I figured I'd go for it. The situation is this: FI and I are planning on signing a contract for a venue this weekend (yay!). The venue permits a tasting before signing and FI and I thought it would be nice to have our parents come so they could feel involved (I know this is important to my mom and I didn't want to invite her and not them) and so we could have a second opinion before we sign. So we invited my parents and they are coming. We invited FI's parents and that did not go quite as well. 

Some background: we are paying for the wedding and it will be on the small side (currently 66 people on our list). We're working under the theory that while we could spend a little more on our wedding, what's important to us is that the people closest to us are there and that we don't deplete our savings. Well, FI's parents got wind of our small wedding (via his sister, who asked a ton of questions about who is invited and apparently felt the need to pass all of that information on, sooo we won't be telling her anything about our wedding again) and are pissed – they think that this cousin and that cousin need to be invited. FI explained to his dad that we have a budget and are not inviting all those people and they should understand since they also threw their own wedding. After that, I figured it would take some time for them to get used to the idea (like it did for my mom) and they would let it go. 

Well, fast forward to us inviting them to the tasting, and they bring it up again, except with much more intensity. They want us to wait and have a longer engagement so that we can afford the people they want invited. They even went ahead and made a list and reported back to FI that they have 66 people on their list but probably only 49 will come. WHAT. THAT IS LITERALLY THE SIZE OF OUR ENTIRE LIST. Sorry for internet yelling but I am pretty mad and would like to real life yell. 

They also complained about the fact that the venue is "too far" (it's one hour and fifteen minutes from their home, and they have to go there one time ever; no, they don't have any disabilities that would prevent their safe travel; some of their family actually lives quite close to the venue, so it's also not in defense of their whole side of the family having to travel; and our wedding will be 11:30-5:00 so they wouldn't even need a hotel room if they don't want to pay for one) and our engagement isn't long enough (pretty sure this is only because they want us to save more money to have their desired wedding; it will be a fourteen month engagement after two and half years of dating and twelve years of knowing each other, plus FI told them before he proposed to me and they were fully supportive). 

This was all via text and they said here is the number of people we have, it's important that you invite them or there will be "repercussions" (in regards to family members being mad at them, not like they are threatening us), and we really need to talk to them about this. My FI just responded "ok" because how much more could he explain to them via text? 

So the next day his mom texts him to say she wants to see us on Saturday. I told him hell no am I going but he has to go and tell them this is not up for debate or discussion. My logic for saying I won't go is I think that they're going to try once again to explain why it is oh so important that we invite their entire extended family and I super do not want to get dragged in, get into an argument with them, and potentially destroy what chance there may be that we have some future relationship.

I'm sorry this is super long but this is way more stressful than I anticipated it would be. Was I wrong to say he should go alone? Should I go with him? Either way, what is the best thing he or I could say to make them get it or at least back off? I know at the end of the day that since we're paying, we are the only ones in control of the guest list, but also at the end of the day, these are FI's parents, so any advice in dealing with this in a way that will cause the least aggravation will be very much appreciated.

TL;DR - FI's parents are demanding we invite cousins upon cousins but are not contributing to the wedding and are being generally unreasonable. How can we tell them no without doing a lot of relationship damage?

First of all, congratulations on your upcoming wedding, and hopefully signing at your venue!! That's exciting.

I wanted to say that I don't think you are doing anything wrong. Let FI talk to and deal with his parents.

My FI and I were in a very similar situation as you. We are paying for our own wedding, and have about 55 guests attending. My FMIL was contacting me (not FI) about inviting cousin so and so, distant relative x, etc. I respond by saying, please send me their address (I can use their address to send them a marriage announcement at a later date at least), and then told her that my FI was in charge of his list, so I'll let him know that she wants another person invited.

My FI would then show her the 27 or so people he has on his list, and then say "Okay Mom, so you want to invite x person. Who do you want to remove from the list so that we can invite them". 

She still asked me a few times about inviting certain people (who we couldn't accommodate) but she seemed happy to know that I have their address, and they'll be getting a marriage announcement in the mail in the future.

As for your FIL's wanting you to postpone your wedding so that you can save more, and pay for the people that they want to invite...I think your FI needs to sit them down and have a conversation with them. I agree that he does this alone, and not have you there for that discussion. It's much better to come from him alone imho. Also, I don't see how IL's can be upset about both of you wanting to start off your marriage financially responsible and debt free.

Best of luck, and hopefully they embrace your small wedding eventually!

anjemon

nerdwife said:

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but this board seems to have the most upfront advice, so I figured I'd go for it. The situation is this: FI and I are planning on signing a contract for a venue this weekend (yay!). The venue permits a tasting before signing and FI and I thought it would be nice to have our parents come so they could feel involved (I know this is important to my mom and I didn't want to invite her and not them) and so we could have a second opinion before we sign. So we invited my parents and they are coming. We invited FI's parents and that did not go quite as well. 

Some background: we are paying for the wedding and it will be on the small side (currently 66 people on our list). We're working under the theory that while we could spend a little more on our wedding, what's important to us is that the people closest to us are there and that we don't deplete our savings. Well, FI's parents got wind of our small wedding (via his sister, who asked a ton of questions about who is invited and apparently felt the need to pass all of that information on, sooo we won't be telling her anything about our wedding again) and are pissed – they think that this cousin and that cousin need to be invited. FI explained to his dad that we have a budget and are not inviting all those people and they should understand since they also threw their own wedding. After that, I figured it would take some time for them to get used to the idea (like it did for my mom) and they would let it go. 

Well, fast forward to us inviting them to the tasting, and they bring it up again, except with much more intensity. They want us to wait and have a longer engagement so that we can afford the people they want invited. They even went ahead and made a list and reported back to FI that they have 66 people on their list but probably only 49 will come. WHAT. THAT IS LITERALLY THE SIZE OF OUR ENTIRE LIST. Sorry for internet yelling but I am pretty mad and would like to real life yell. 

They also complained about the fact that the venue is "too far" (it's one hour and fifteen minutes from their home, and they have to go there one time ever; no, they don't have any disabilities that would prevent their safe travel; some of their family actually lives quite close to the venue, so it's also not in defense of their whole side of the family having to travel; and our wedding will be 11:30-5:00 so they wouldn't even need a hotel room if they don't want to pay for one) and our engagement isn't long enough (pretty sure this is only because they want us to save more money to have their desired wedding; it will be a fourteen month engagement after two and half years of dating and twelve years of knowing each other, plus FI told them before he proposed to me and they were fully supportive). 

This was all via text and they said here is the number of people we have, it's important that you invite them or there will be "repercussions" (in regards to family members being mad at them, not like they are threatening us), and we really need to talk to them about this. My FI just responded "ok" because how much more could he explain to them via text? 

So the next day his mom texts him to say she wants to see us on Saturday. I told him hell no am I going but he has to go and tell them this is not up for debate or discussion. My logic for saying I won't go is I think that they're going to try once again to explain why it is oh so important that we invite their entire extended family and I super do not want to get dragged in, get into an argument with them, and potentially destroy what chance there may be that we have some future relationship.

I'm sorry this is super long but this is way more stressful than I anticipated it would be. Was I wrong to say he should go alone? Should I go with him? Either way, what is the best thing he or I could say to make them get it or at least back off? I know at the end of the day that since we're paying, we are the only ones in control of the guest list, but also at the end of the day, these are FI's parents, so any advice in dealing with this in a way that will cause the least aggravation will be very much appreciated.

TL;DR - FI's parents are demanding we invite cousins upon cousins but are not contributing to the wedding and are being generally unreasonable. How can we tell them no without doing a lot of relationship damage?

OP, are you willing to invite these people if your FILs offer to pay for their seats?  Are there a number of people you are willing to give them from that list? I would think those questions are somethings you need to be sure of before you or your FI have a discussion with them.

I can see why you wouldn't want to go. It's terribly hard to be around when other people's families are fighting and you don't want to be the one fighting with them. What does your FI think about going alone? If he would rather have you there for support it might be worthwhile to go. I would also think it might be worth going if you think he's likely to make compromises without talking to you (we've had other people's FIs do that).

I agree with the PP who said there probably isn't a way to have this conversation without making it a big thing. FILs seem very insistent and unwilling to let it go.

Maybe just agree on your talking points with your FI before the conversation. Whether it be something about the issue being closed or trying to find out why they are so insistent. Have a good reason for why you don't want to wait longer to save. I always find that if I have my thoughts planned out a little better it makes difficult conversations easier on me. Because I know what I'm going to say and don't have to worry I'm making an irrational response.

JediElizabeth

I've had some similar issues with my FILs - though they're MUCH nicer than this, and feel bad that we're paying for our wedding ourselves. My venue will allow far more people than we're inviting, so we've all agreed that if there's anyone not on our list that they really want there, they can pay for them. We've given them a maximum number of people (I don't want their guests to overwhelm FI & my guests, nor for my FI and I to spend too much time greeting people neither one of us knows well), but they can make their choices and work within that. It also avoids the idea of b-listing - they won't be asking if their guests can come "if we have room" later.

It took a lot of conversations with them, some of them very frank. It also helped that we had already booked the venue, so I could tell them exactly how much we were paying per person, and why our budget was the way it was. I didn't have to disclose this information to them, but I felt it was necessary once we were getting to the point where they might be willing to pay for their own guests.

My FILs are fortunate enough that this worked. If my family had this same problem, I'd have to just tell them no, because they wouldn't be able to supplement any funds for us, so that's a situational factor which may or may not work in your favor. IF you're willing to have the extra people there, and IF they're willing to back up their insistence with funds, and IF your venue is large enough to accommodate, you may be able to give them some extra space.

However, if the answer to any of those "IF" statements is "no," just be strong with them. As PPs have said, if that causes issues with your relationship, that's because they're being unreasonable, not you. Don't start off your marriage by letting other people call the shots on your wedding - it'll set a precedent for them walking all over you later.

Jen4948

luckya23 said:

Jen4948 said:

I don't think there is a way to tell them no without doing a lot of relationship damage.

That said, your FI needs to tell them very firmly, "No.  We are only inviting the people who are already on the list and are not going to wait and save to invite any more people.  We are not going to change our minds on this.  This is a final decision and a closed subject from now on."

I think it's their insistence and demands doing the damage, not the OP's fault in saying no.


True, but the OP asked how she and her FI could respond in a way that won't damage the relationship, and there isn't any way to do that, because the ILs are not going to accept any responsibility for the damage.

nerdwife

I am a little worried about him going alone, but we've been talking about it all week - what exactly to say and the fact that this is not up for discussion. I'm just not sure I feel comfortable having an argument with his parents. 

We did agree that if they feel very strongly about maybe 4-6 people and are willing to cover their costs, we would be open to that. My mom feels that some of her closest friends should be invited to mine but has offered to pay for them, and we are totally fine with that. 

If, however, they offered to cover the cost of all 44 (their 66 people minus the 22 already on the list) of their additional guests, we're not quite so comfortable with that, as we're going for a smaller, more intimate wedding that does not include relatives we wouldn't recognize if they passed us on the street. Also, I don't think they can afford to contribute, which is why I think they're throwing such a fit about us not paying for all their people. Money is also tight for my mom but she feels her guests are important enough to pay for, so I'm hoping when they hear that, they might see the light on this.

I do like the idea of presenting numbers to them (which I've done with my mom). I don't know if they have any idea how much a wedding costs (FI is their oldest). Also, $100 pp doesn't sound like that much but it adds up, and fast. So if they're like well just invite these ten people, we can say, well, that's $1,000, which is close to 10% of our budget. So no. And I feel like for every guest of theirs we add, we have to add a guest for my family, since there are plenty of people my mom wants to invite that I had to tell her no (I realize that may not be a hard and fast rule, but I think it's the right thing to do given the circumstances).

Thanks for you responses so far - I really appreciate you telling me I'm not the crazy one here and sharing your experiences! I feel a little better already.

OliveOilsMom

I think that you should go with your FI.  Allow him to do the majority of the talking and both of you should keep calm.  But show FILs that you two are a united front and you will not be inviting anyone other than your current guest list. 

"Mom & Dad, we love you, but we are planning the wedding that FI and I want to have.  We are sorry if you do not like our guest list, but it is final and we will not be adding anyone else."

"Mom, if you are afraid of what Aunt Pam will think about not being invited to the wedding, just simply tell her we are having a small wedding."

"Dad, I thought that this issue was settled a while ago when you first asked us to add guests.  Our answer then was no and it still is no.  I'm sorry you don't like that answer, but that is our final answer.  Now, did you want to attend our tasting?"

"Mom & Dad, its becoming clear that you are very upset with our wedding plans.  We are sorry that our plans are not what you are expecting.  We are very happy with our plans and will not be changing them.  In order to keep the peace, we can just not talk about any wedding plans from here on out."

I think anytime you bring up the wedding with FILs, they will bring up the guest list.  So stop talking about the wedding with them.  It is no longer a topic of conversation with them.  If they bring it up, either answer their question vaguely "we haven't decided on x yet." or tell them you will no longer be talking about the wedding with them.  "Mom & Dad, I know we have spoken about the wedding before, but its clear we have different ideas for it.  So it's probably for the best if we don't talk about the wedding anymore."  Then change the subject.

OliveOilsMom

nerdwife said:

I am a little worried about him going alone, but we've been talking about it all week - what exactly to say and the fact that this is not up for discussion. I'm just not sure I feel comfortable having an argument with his parents. 

We did agree that if they feel very strongly about maybe 4-6 people and are willing to cover their costs, we would be open to that. My mom feels that some of her closest friends should be invited to mine but has offered to pay for them, and we are totally fine with that. 

If, however, they offered to cover the cost of all 44 (their 66 people minus the 22 already on the list) of their additional guests, we're not quite so comfortable with that, as we're going for a smaller, more intimate wedding that does not include relatives we wouldn't recognize if they passed us on the street. Also, I don't think they can afford to contribute, which is why I think they're throwing such a fit about us not paying for all their people. Money is also tight for my mom but she feels her guests are important enough to pay for, so I'm hoping when they hear that, they might see the light on this.

I do like the idea of presenting numbers to them (which I've done with my mom). I don't know if they have any idea how much a wedding costs (FI is their oldest). Also, $100 pp doesn't sound like that much but it adds up, and fast. So if they're like well just invite these ten people, we can say, well, that's $1,000, which is close to 10% of our budget. So no. And I feel like for every guest of theirs we add, we have to add a guest for my family, since there are plenty of people my mom wants to invite that I had to tell her no (I realize that may not be a hard and fast rule, but I think it's the right thing to do given the circumstances).

Thanks for you responses so far - I really appreciate you telling me I'm not the crazy one here and sharing your experiences! I feel a little better already.

To the bolded: I would not tell your FILs that your mom is paying for anyone - its not their business.  It will also strengthen their resolve to badger you until you agree to their additional 44 people.  Also explain that of the list FILs provided, 22 of those people are already invited to the wedding. 

arrrghmatey

nerdwife said:

I am a little worried about him going alone, but we've been talking about it all week - what exactly to say and the fact that this is not up for discussion. I'm just not sure I feel comfortable having an argument with his parents. 

We did agree that if they feel very strongly about maybe 4-6 people and are willing to cover their costs, we would be open to that. My mom feels that some of her closest friends should be invited to mine but has offered to pay for them, and we are totally fine with that. 

If, however, they offered to cover the cost of all 44 (their 66 people minus the 22 already on the list) of their additional guests, we're not quite so comfortable with that, as we're going for a smaller, more intimate wedding that does not include relatives we wouldn't recognize if they passed us on the street. Also, I don't think they can afford to contribute, which is why I think they're throwing such a fit about us not paying for all their people. Money is also tight for my mom but she feels her guests are important enough to pay for, so I'm hoping when they hear that, they might see the light on this.

I do like the idea of presenting numbers to them (which I've done with my mom). I don't know if they have any idea how much a wedding costs (FI is their oldest). Also, $100 pp doesn't sound like that much but it adds up, and fast. So if they're like well just invite these ten people, we can say, well, that's $1,000, which is close to 10% of our budget. So no. And I feel like for every guest of theirs we add, we have to add a guest for my family, since there are plenty of people my mom wants to invite that I had to tell her no (I realize that may not be a hard and fast rule, but I think it's the right thing to do given the circumstances).

Thanks for you responses so far - I really appreciate you telling me I'm not the crazy one here and sharing your experiences! I feel a little better already.

And don't forget the extra cake, chairs, rentals, favors (if having any), etc for those extra people. And I understand it would be hard to explain to your parents why FILs were able to invite more friends than they did.

I agree with @OliveOilsMom -- if this is something your FILs refuse to accept, then just avoid talking about the wedding with them. Any time they bring up the guest list, say "I'm sorry, but we've discussed this and our decisions have been made. The subject is closed. Mmm have you tried this bean dip?"

STARMOON44

I think it's nice to give parents some number of guests they can invite even if they aren't paying, but not more than your whole guest list! If your list already includes FI's extended family (to the extent he wants them there) I would try to find room for them to invite their closest 2 couple friends if you can. Not because it's required or you are rude if you don't, just because I think it's a nice gesture that goes a long way. But if that just doesn't fit your budget or you just don't want to perfectly fine to just tell them you can't afford more guests and you're done discussing it with them.

SP29

Just wanted to echo what PP's have said.

You and your FI are not doing anything wrong. There is nothing wrong with having a smaller wedding. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to invite FI's third cousin twice removed. 

If you are open to some concessions.... what we did with each of our parents (both of our parents are divorced), is asked them for a list of who they would like to see invited, and then we would choose from that list. We made it clear that just because they gave us a list didn't mean we would invite all of them. My parents each only wanted one couple invited, which was easy. FIL requested 3 couples, we invited 2 of them. MIL had a list of 7-10 couples, I think we invited about 5 of them. 

However, I would only do this if you have the budget and the space to potentially add more guests, or you are willing to remove other guests from FI's side of the family already on the list.

It sounds though like they've already given you a giant list of 66, in which you already invited 22 of those people. So unless the ILs can narrow this *want* list down to a reasonable number, I wouldn't bring it up again.

Otherwise, FI needs to present your side to his parents and be very firm, "The budget and guest list have been decided and the decision is firm. We will not discuss it any further. So are you coming to the tasting?".

Don't let someone guilt you into postponing your wedding so you can up your budget just to invite more people, if that's not what you want and you are ready now. 

aurianna

Agree with PPs.

I just wanted to make sure this was covered:

You're inviting everyone invited to pre-wedding events, correct? If you had a shower or engagement party, where you were asked input on the guest list, no one was at those parties who isn't invited to the wedding, correct?
And you are inviting all significant others of everyone invited (be it spouse, fiance, or bf/gf)?

I assume you're good there but just wanted to double check in case the reason in-laws were upset was because people like that had been omitted.

nerdwife

Thanks everyone for the replies! I am all good with SOs being invited and other invite etiquette, so I don't think that's it.

I think going in and saying here are your 22 people (FTR, it's their immediate family, plus aunts, uncles, and first cousins who FI and his family are close with, plus a couple of close family friends - everyone we thought was necessary and important to have there), and if you want to swap people out, that's cool, but if you want more, you need to cover their costs, is the way to go here, so thank you for laying that out for me.

I have gotten pretty split advice as to whether to go with FI on Saturday to talk to his parents, so still not sure what to do! I definitely don't want him to cave and I want to be united with him, but I don't want to (further) alienate my FILs by potentially arguing with them.

Maggie0829

nerdwife said:

Thanks everyone for the replies! I am all good with SOs being invited and other invite etiquette, so I don't think that's it. I think going in and saying here are your 22 people (FTR, it's their immediate family, plus aunts, uncles, and first cousins who FI and his family are close with, plus a couple of close family friends - everyone we thought was necessary and important to have there), and if you want to swap people out, that's cool, but if you want more, you need to cover their costs, is the way to go here, so thank you for laying that out for me. I have gotten pretty split advice as to whether to go with FI on Saturday to talk to his parents, so still not sure what to do! I definitely don't want him to cave and I want to be united with him, but I don't want to (further) alienate my FILs by potentially arguing with them.

I would just be careful about the whole "if you want more people then you have to cover the costs" thing.  This could start getting out of hand in regards to how many people they end up wanting to invite.  And remember that covering the costs of people is more then just the food and booze.  You also have to add in costs of extra seating, linens, favors, centerpieces, etc.

As for whether or not to go with your FI, I personally would go.  This way you and FI are seen as a united front, rather then your FI being seen as your "message boy."  Alsoif you go you are able to hear exactly what is said.  I would definitely let your FI do most, if not all, of the talking, and if you do have to speak just make sure not to sound defensive or irritated or argumentative.  I know that is hard when you might actually be feeling all of those things, but just stay calm.

In the end, unless you plan on giving into everything your FILs want, there will be hurt feelings and frustrations on their part, but that is life.

JediElizabeth

nerdwife said:

Thanks everyone for the replies! I am all good with SOs being invited and other invite etiquette, so I don't think that's it. I think going in and saying here are your 22 people (FTR, it's their immediate family, plus aunts, uncles, and first cousins who FI and his family are close with, plus a couple of close family friends - everyone we thought was necessary and important to have there), and if you want to swap people out, that's cool, but if you want more, you need to cover their costs, is the way to go here, so thank you for laying that out for me. I have gotten pretty split advice as to whether to go with FI on Saturday to talk to his parents, so still not sure what to do! I definitely don't want him to cave and I want to be united with him, but I don't want to (further) alienate my FILs by potentially arguing with them.

This has been my issue, too. I don't want to be too forceful, and I'll admit, I've taken him away from the conversation a time or two to have a little chat about where we both are and what to say. That works when you're staying at someone's home and can say "can you help me find something in our suitcase?" - not so much if you're just going over for a visit.

Even still, going there and standing with him as he talks is important. And there's ways to politely steer the conversation by saying "Well, earlier we were talking about xyz. Honey, do you remember that idea we came up with?" 

Also, I let them come up with my solutions. For example (with your numbers) "Fire code allows up to 95 in the venue after vendors, but we can only afford 70 of them, and even that's a stretch." They might offer to pay for another 25, but you'd also have a very good reason to cap it at that. Maybe add in other information that backs up your FI's words: that extending the engagement means waiting even longer to have a house, give them grandkids (if that's true and you want kids), etc. You can come off as sympathetic and reasonable, and still support your FI, whose responsibility it is to give the hard "No."

At least, that worked for me and my guest list issues. 

OliveOilsMom

JediElizabeth said:

nerdwife said:

Thanks everyone for the replies! I am all good with SOs being invited and other invite etiquette, so I don't think that's it. I think going in and saying here are your 22 people (FTR, it's their immediate family, plus aunts, uncles, and first cousins who FI and his family are close with, plus a couple of close family friends - everyone we thought was necessary and important to have there), and if you want to swap people out, that's cool, but if you want more, you need to cover their costs, is the way to go here, so thank you for laying that out for me. I have gotten pretty split advice as to whether to go with FI on Saturday to talk to his parents, so still not sure what to do! I definitely don't want him to cave and I want to be united with him, but I don't want to (further) alienate my FILs by potentially arguing with them.

This has been my issue, too. I don't want to be too forceful, and I'll admit, I've taken him away from the conversation a time or two to have a little chat about where we both are and what to say. That works when you're staying at someone's home and can say "can you help me find something in our suitcase?" - not so much if you're just going over for a visit.

Even still, going there and standing with him as he talks is important. And there's ways to politely steer the conversation by saying "Well, earlier we were talking about xyz. Honey, do you remember that idea we came up with?" 

Also, I let them come up with my solutions. For example (with your numbers) "Fire code allows up to 95 in the venue after vendors, but we can only afford 70 of them, and even that's a stretch." They might offer to pay for another 25, but you'd also have a very good reason to cap it at that. Maybe add in other information that backs up your FI's words: that extending the engagement means waiting even longer to have a house, give them grandkids (if that's true and you want kids), etc. You can come off as sympathetic and reasonable, and still support your FI, whose responsibility it is to give the hard "No."

At least, that worked for me and my guest list issues. 

I disagree with the bolded, all you would be doing is trying to offer FILs an excuse.  The only excuse that matters to OP and her FI, is that their currently planned wedding is the wedding they want.  If you start feeding lines, people will always try to find a way around them.  "Oh, your fire code is 95 people - well then just find a new venue!"  Keeping it simple and saying, "Sorry that you don't like our decision, but this is want we want." doesn't really have a work around.  Also, if something ends up being a lie (and even a small white lie), they always have a way of coming out.  I think that would hurt FILs more than just denying their request outright.

Liatris2010

I don't think you should suggest they pay for the extras. There is no way it ends well. They will either pony up the money, and you'll be struck inviting an extra 20 people, or they will be resentful that they couldn't buy what they wanted, especially if they find out your mother was able to purchase a few extra invites.

I do think you should go with your FI this weekend. You don't have to argue, you just don't discuss. When they bring it up, you say, "Our decision is final and the subject is no longer open for discussion." and then you change the subject. If they insist, you and your FI should leave. "I'm sorry, we misunderstood the invitation for this weekend. We are not here to argue. I hope we can get together another time when you've moved past this." And then you go.

No fighting, no debating. This will be hard for them but they need to learn that their kid is all grown up, and makes decisions with the future spouse, and not parents.

thisismynickname2

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, not only is the advice above great about putting your foot down, you may have to go stronger on the bean dip. We also had a wedding about your size (69 came) and DH had to negotiate with his mom, who has a huge family. He was great about putting his foot down when she asked to invite more people every so often (after they'd agreed on the original guest list). 

What I mean by stronger is, you may actually need to pull the "it's MY wedding" card. It is YOUR wedding, not your future in-laws'. It is a day that you want to celebrate with people YOU know, not cousins you wouldn't know if you passed them on the street. YOUR wedding is NOT a family reunion! You may need to tell them this. 

(As I typed that, I just remembered that my sister had to use that line-- 'not a family reunion'-- on her in-laws when she and her hubby insisted on a wedding of roughly 20, rather than the 150 everyone expected of them.)

Honestly, people will get butthurt about it now, and then they'll get over it. It's their problem not yours. 

marie2785

Agreed with some PPs about paying for extras. It can get out of hand quick. For my wedding, food (dinner, apps, drinks, cake) came out to around $100 a person. Had it been a situation where my parents were paying me per guest, they would have fought tooth and nail only to pay me $100 a person. At the end of the night, when the final bill came due and we calculated the total cost of the wedding (so flowers, cake, linens, valet, servers, gratuity, etc) the per person cost was closer to $200.  Luckily, we didn't fight since they covered the actual bill. 

Money makes people go crazy, so I can almost guarantee if your FFIL and FMIL are fighting about the guest list, they'll fight about paying the actual cost per guest. 

zitiqueen

Others have said don't tell them they can pay for their extra guests. If you do cave and tell them this would be okay, make sure you have the cash in your hand before you mail out the invitations. You can always refund them for the "no" RSVPs.

levioosa

You should go, but let your FI do the talking.  It's important that you are seen as a united front, and also that you put boundaries in place.  

JediElizabeth

OliveOilsMom said:

JediElizabeth said:

nerdwife said:

Thanks everyone for the replies! I am all good with SOs being invited and other invite etiquette, so I don't think that's it. I think going in and saying here are your 22 people (FTR, it's their immediate family, plus aunts, uncles, and first cousins who FI and his family are close with, plus a couple of close family friends - everyone we thought was necessary and important to have there), and if you want to swap people out, that's cool, but if you want more, you need to cover their costs, is the way to go here, so thank you for laying that out for me. I have gotten pretty split advice as to whether to go with FI on Saturday to talk to his parents, so still not sure what to do! I definitely don't want him to cave and I want to be united with him, but I don't want to (further) alienate my FILs by potentially arguing with them.

This has been my issue, too. I don't want to be too forceful, and I'll admit, I've taken him away from the conversation a time or two to have a little chat about where we both are and what to say. That works when you're staying at someone's home and can say "can you help me find something in our suitcase?" - not so much if you're just going over for a visit.

Even still, going there and standing with him as he talks is important. And there's ways to politely steer the conversation by saying "Well, earlier we were talking about xyz. Honey, do you remember that idea we came up with?" 

Also, I let them come up with my solutions. For example (with your numbers) "Fire code allows up to 95 in the venue after vendors, but we can only afford 70 of them, and even that's a stretch." They might offer to pay for another 25, but you'd also have a very good reason to cap it at that. Maybe add in other information that backs up your FI's words: that extending the engagement means waiting even longer to have a house, give them grandkids (if that's true and you want kids), etc. You can come off as sympathetic and reasonable, and still support your FI, whose responsibility it is to give the hard "No."

At least, that worked for me and my guest list issues. 

I disagree with the bolded, all you would be doing is trying to offer FILs an excuse.  The only excuse that matters to OP and her FI, is that their currently planned wedding is the wedding they want.  If you start feeding lines, people will always try to find a way around them.  "Oh, your fire code is 95 people - well then just find a new venue!"  Keeping it simple and saying, "Sorry that you don't like our decision, but this is want we want." doesn't really have a work around.  Also, if something ends up being a lie (and even a small white lie), they always have a way of coming out.  I think that would hurt FILs more than just denying their request outright.

I should point out that this worked for me because (a) we didn't mind extra people as long as we weren't paying for them, (b) our buildings fire code is about 130% of our guest list, so I was ok with them filling up the rest of the space, and (c) we're very firm on not changing the venue. My FILs also hate the fact that we're renting (they think it's throwing away money), so the very true part about saving up for a house worked with them.  If that's not true for the OP, then obviously she shouldn't lie. But since she sounded open to letting them pay for some of their list, this was a course of action that worked very well for me in practice. 

SP29

zitiqueen said:

Others have said don't tell them they can pay for their extra guests. If you do cave and tell them this would be okay, make sure you have the cash in your hand before you mail out the invitations. You can always refund them for the "no" RSVPs.

Definitely this. If you do go the route of letting the ILs pay for extra guests, make sure you have the money in hand before invites go out, lest they don't contribute like they said and now you and FI are stuck paying. 

I also agree that at the end of the day, you shouldn't feel obligated to invite extra guests, even if the ILs are paying. A wedding is not a family reunion. If your ILs want to get the whole family together, THEY can host a family reunion on their own time and dime. If that is something that they bring up, that you must invite *everybody* because it would be so great to see everyone, I would tell them that. "This is our wedding, not a family reunion. However we would be happy to attend a family reunion if you wanted to host one sometime."

MegEn1

I've noticed a few posts here recommending that you show FMIL the list of the 22 overlaps and say 'fine, who do you want to cut?' Do NOT do that, imo. Because she might take that and start swapping out people you actually want. Even if she offers to pay for a few key people do NOT show her the list, because then she'll start having judgments on who you are inviting as well as who you are not. 

nerdwife

Thanks everyone! I talked to FI and he does want me to go with him, so I will be. We'll have talking points covered beforehand so I (hopefully) won't have to jump in. We'll just say that this is the wedding that we want and that we're throwing, we're sorry you feel upset about it, but this is what we're doing (nicely - explain that this is not where we want to spend all our money, etc.). I do think we'll offer to let them add up to 6 people if they pay, only because we already told my mom that's okay and I don't want to not extend them the same courtesy/risk them finding out and being more mad.

I like @MegEn1 last tip about not showing them the list - I don't know if they might try to intentionally take people off that they know we want to/have to invite, and I'd rather not risk it. Also thanks @zitiqueen - good tip and I will be sure to do so.

Thanks again everyone and I'll let you know how it goes!

nerdwife

So we went and let's just say it did not go great. FILs had their list and were demanding to know who FI thinks they can not invite from the list. After some time, FMIL seemed to be coming around, especially after hearing how my mom has the same number of guests and was frustrated but moved on. However, FFIL was not being reasonable, including lamenting about how far the venue is from them. This is ridiculous because, as stated in my original post, it is not that far, plus FMIL's cousin is a dentist and they travel past the venue every year for cleanings, and you're going to sit across from us and say it's too far for our wedding? I could go on and on about all the crazy things that FFIL said (including "[X and Y cousin, extended family member, friend, etc.] won't even send us Christmas cards anymore if we don't invite them!" and a follow-up voicemail on Sunday that "[our venue] is really ridiculous, we should reconsider" while FMIL can be heard in the background yelling at him to hang up). *le sigh*

Unfortunately, FI wasn't as firm as I wanted him to be/we discussed, which was disappointing. It was hard to sit at the table with FILs and have to listen to them be generally unreasonable and not be able to yell at them while simultaneously getting angry with FI for not speaking up like he should have. All in all, not a pleasant experience.

Ultimately, it seemed to end with FILs finally hearing/understanding that my mom is paying for six additional guests and they can, too, but, since FI was not firm, I think we left them thinking they can invite eight (we said six, not eight!) additional people they like that will "probably come" plus a bunch of people who "probably won't come," which is not a great outcome. So FI needs to fix it.

I am very glad I took your advice and went with him because I cannot imagine how much more he would've have given in to them had I not been there glaring at him, kicking him under the table, and very occasionally speaking up. I feel bad because it sucks that his parents do not seem at all excited about our wedding while also being crazy about our guest list and the location – I know he, just like everyone else, just wants his parents on his side and to be excited and not crazy – but I'm frustrated at the same time that this went so poorly. And that we have to go through this again.

I really do appreciate everyone's advice and support – like I said, I'm glad I went and I hope FI uses more of your suggested talking points the next time around. On a bright note, we signed our venue and have our date for next October! While it certainly came at an awkward moment as I was less than thrilled with FI from the day before, I am excited and know we can work past all this.

Thanks again!

Pupatella

Oh no!! I'm so sorry that it turned out this way. That sounds super frustrating.

Inviting people that "probably won't come" sounds so scary and not okay. I'm hoping your FI can fix this for you. He needs to put his food down with his parents, and it sounds like you will need to be there any time in the future that this is discussed.

I'm just reiterating what other have said - I think you are very smart for not going into debt, and inviting a ton of guests that you can't afford to host. I really wish your IL's could see this as well.

Jen4948

I'm very sorry that things didn't go well. 

It sounds like you need to be very firm with your FI that he needs to be very firm with his parents and make crystal clear that they cannot invite more people than the six, and certainly not anyone who "probably won't come."  And he has to shut down the complaints about the location.  He might say something like, "Mom, Dad, we've heard what you have to say about this, but we're standing firm on our decision.  You can invite six additional people, but that's it.  Not eight-six.  And we're not changing the location of the wedding.  These are closed subjects and we're not willing to discuss them further."