The Groom's Payback?

Knottie1435002966

My wedding is 179 days away, and right now, today, I am so disappointed.  I love my fiancé and I can't wait to be his wife, but he has been so lazy about any and everything wedding related.  He has no input what so ever on anything.  This weekend, we went to complete a wedding registry.  I didn't tell him to come, I asked him if he wanted to come and he said yes.  As we're pulling into the parking lot, he begins a narrative on how he's not use to these types of fancy things.  Wedding registries are for the people on TV.  Mind you, this is not the first time he's said things like this (albeit, the topics were things like nightstands in the bedroom, decorative hand towels, and other typical man things that I know he's not interested in nor cares about). So, I tried the best I could by explaining that I've never done a wedding registry, or purchased anything from a registry. However, some of our older relatives were asking about it, so I wanted to finish one.  I also told him that if he didn't want to, he didn't have to.  Again, he said "No, let's just do this." Once inside Macy's, he completely shuts down.  He swears that I have an attitude with him and that I let people disrespect him in his own home (where that came from I had no clue). I finally tell him to stop bitching and complaining and that he didn't have to come, so he proceeds to stand quietly seething in the corner while I scan dishes with tears in my eyes. 

I think that this is his payback for me wanting a wedding in the first place.  When we talked about getting married, he wanted to go to the JOTP.  I didn't.  So we decided to have a smaller ceremony in a lounge, and not have a big, banquet hall affair.  Now I'm not so sure that he's on board with it. He drags his feet at every corner and laments that this wedding is solely for me and that if he had his way we would have gone to the courthouse and been married and pregnant by now.  I'm overwhelmed we've been planning this ceremony for over a year and now I wish that I had never wanted a wedding at all.

I just needed to vent, I don't know what I'm going to do at this point.

 

geebee908

Knottie1435002966 said:

My wedding is 179 days away, and right now, today, I am so disappointed.  I love my fiancé and I can't wait to be his wife, but he has been so lazy about any and everything wedding related.  He has no input what so ever on anything.  This weekend, we went to complete a wedding registry.  I didn't tell him to come, I asked him if he wanted to come and he said yes.  As we're pulling into the parking lot, he begins a narrative on how he's not use to these types of fancy things.  Wedding registries are for the people on TV.  Mind you, this is not the first time he's said things like this (albeit, the topics were things like nightstands in the bedroom, decorative hand towels, and other typical man things that I know he's not interested in nor cares about). So, I tried the best I could by explaining that I've never done a wedding registry, or purchased anything from a registry. However, some of our older relatives were asking about it, so I wanted to finish one.  I also told him that if he didn't want to, he didn't have to.  Again, he said "No, let's just do this." Once inside Macy's, he completely shuts down.  He swears that I have an attitude with him and that I let people disrespect him in his own home (where that came from I had no clue). I finally tell him to stop bitching and complaining and that he didn't have to come, so he proceeds to stand quietly seething in the corner while I scan dishes with tears in my eyes. 

I think that this is his payback for me wanting a wedding in the first place.  When we talked about getting married, he wanted to go to the JOTP.  I didn't.  So we decided to have a smaller ceremony in a lounge, and not have a big, banquet hall affair.  Now I'm not so sure that he's on board with it. He drags his feet at every corner and laments that this wedding is solely for me and that if he had his way we would have gone to the courthouse and been married and pregnant by now.  I'm overwhelmed we've been planning this ceremony for over a year and now I wish that I had never wanted a wedding at all.

I just needed to vent, I don't know what I'm going to do at this point.

 

I think you need to start some premarital counseling to work on communication (and other issues, most likely), and seriously look at postponing your wedding for now until you've worked on your relationship.

DrillSergeantCat

Premarital counseling...NOW! Pouting and acting like a child is not conducive to the communication required to have a successful marriage.

charlotte989875

There are a lot of red flags here, and maybe it is just venting. However, if you truly believe that he is acting like this (having an attitude, not helping you plan or make decisions, etc.) because he is engaging in some sort of "payback" this is a big problem. If you two compromised on a wedding and now he is making you feel bad about this, or treating you poorly because of it you two need to have some serious conversations about your decision making skills. Pre-martial counseling would be a good place to start, but it sounds like there are some major issues you two need to resolve before any further planning takes place. 

OliveOilsMom

You two need to learn to communicate better.  There is nothing you two will be able to accomplish if this is how you both act.  Other big things will come up in your lives and you will need to work together to overcome it.  Planning a wedding can be a little taste of what's to come, so imagine that how you are both acting now, will be how you will both face other issues in the future.

As PP said, I think premarital counseling is in order.  You two seemed to have come to a compromise on your wedding vision, but he is now not happy about it for whatever reason and you need to figure out why.

Heffalump

Hello to a fellow North Carolinian!  Remember, early voting begins this Thursday, 10/20.  Make sure you get out and vote!

As for your actual question...yikes.  So if I may paraphrase:

• Your fiancé has not been involved with your (plural) wedding planning to-date
• As a result, you have labeled him lazy
• You trot out the tired, old "men don't care about anything domestic" trope--please stop with this nonsense
• Your fiancé agrees to go to the registry appointment, but while there "shuts down," accuses you of having an attitude, and brings up some dispute unrelated to the task at hand (people disrespecting him in his own home vs. choosing linens and tableware)
• You chastise him, he sulks, you try not to cry

Do you see how there was a conflict there, but neither of you did anything to address it, and instead basically just made each other feel badly?  Not constructive. 

As for the second half, where you two tried to compromise on the type of wedding you both wanted, he seemingly compromised, and now complains that it's not what he wants at all?  Stop planning.  Stop until the two of you can have an honest, objective conversation about what you both want, and can use your words and talk about your feelings. 

If you want a big wedding and he doesn't, the solution is not for him to cave to your wishes, guilt you about it, and use it as an excuse to behave badly, while you carry on with your plans as if nothing is happening.  Talk to each other.  I agree that counseling is needed to help facilitate this, since it sounds like it's not happening on its own.

Right now, neither of you are ready to marry each other, and if you simply push on, it won't make the relationship work, it will just hasten its demise.  You can't build a house on a cracked foundation, so fix your problems before they become much bigger problems.

glasgowtolondon

If treating you poorly is "payback" for you wanting a wedding, how do you foresee the rest of your life with him going? What if you want to do something else he doesn't like but goes along with anyway? Must you walk on eggshells forever incase you displease him?

Heffalump

Knottie1435002966 said:

My wedding is 179 days away, and right now, today, I am so disappointed.  I love my fiancé and I can't wait to be his wife, but he has been so lazy about any and everything wedding related.  He has no input what so ever on anything.  This weekend, we went to complete a wedding registry.  I didn't tell him to come, I asked him if he wanted to come and he said yes.  As we're pulling into the parking lot, he begins a narrative on how he's not use to these types of fancy things.  Wedding registries are for the people on TV.  Mind you, this is not the first time he's said things like this (albeit, the topics were things like nightstands in the bedroom, decorative hand towels, and other typical man things that I know he's not interested in nor cares about). So, I tried the best I could by explaining that I've never done a wedding registry, or purchased anything from a registry. However, some of our older relatives were asking about it, so I wanted to finish one.  I also told him that if he didn't want to, he didn't have to.  Again, he said "No, let's just do this." Once inside Macy's, he completely shuts down.  He swears that I have an attitude with him and that I let people disrespect him in his own home (where that came from I had no clue). I finally tell him to stop bitching and complaining and that he didn't have to come, so he proceeds to stand quietly seething in the corner while I scan dishes with tears in my eyes. 

I think that this is his payback for me wanting a wedding in the first place.  When we talked about getting married, he wanted to go to the JOTP.  I didn't.  So we decided to have a smaller ceremony in a lounge, and not have a big, banquet hall affair.  Now I'm not so sure that he's on board with it. He drags his feet at every corner and laments that this wedding is solely for me and that if he had his way we would have gone to the courthouse and been married and pregnant by now.  I'm overwhelmed we've been planning this ceremony for over a year and now I wish that I had never wanted a wedding at all.

I just needed to vent, I don't know what I'm going to do at this point.

 

Oh, and one more thing: do not have children until you sort out your communication issues, no matter how badly he wants them.  If you two can't plan a party without tearing each other down, then you definitely should not bring a baby into the mix right now.

thefanciestbeckler

Get premarital counseling stat. You guys are clearly not communicating effectively. There should be no "punishing" or paying each other back for ANYTHING. Ever. That is not the way to resolve conflict.

kimmiinthemitten

I can see why you wanted to cry, but it seems like neither of you know how to fight fair yet.

As hard as it will be, I agree with PP's that you need to postpone the wedding until you've worked out your communication problems.  Compromise is a part of daily life in a relationship and I personally would not want to spend a lifetime keeping score, one upping each other and plotting revenge when it's my turn to lose.

levioosa

Lots of red flags here. 

I would not marry a person I thought was giving me "payback" because they didn't approve or like a situation. Nope. That's what children do. I'm marrying an adult, and that adult better be able to communicate like one. 

Eta: and to the tired trope of "domestic things aren't for men," SO and I just got a house. He has been obsessing over decorating it. I wish he cared a little less, because he's not great at it, but the point is he seriously cares, and he has a lot of opinions about it. Men care about weddings and "domestic" things too. If your FI can't work with you on a simple issue like a registry, you have a lot of much bigger problems. 

ShesSoCold

OP, I know these responses probably seem really harsh but it's true. Conflict resolution and compromise are going to be extremely important in your daily lives, for the rest of your lives. If you both don't learn how to do these things in a healthy way, you're setting yourself up for disaster.

NOLABridesmaid

Ditto, to what the other ladies have already said.

On a side note. I've noticed that when some men have only attended very simple weddings; they think that's all they need too.

I just mean that if he has only attended very simple weddings, then he might not have the same vision that you have for a wedding. I have a friend and her husband thought she was going overboard with their wedding, until the day of. He loved everything she chose and was glad they didn't have it at a lodge or hall.

kvruns

speaking from experience, the counseling aspect is important. We had some issues early on with planning and I realized that he was taking out his issues on the planning rather than actually address the real issue. It wasn't fighting fairly and it caused a lot of stress.

Knottie1435002966

Hi ladies! I don't think that your responses aren't at all harsh. I'm really at a place that I just want to throw my hands up. Usually, its hard to see where you also shoulder blame in any situation. In my eyes, I felt that he deserved my words because of the "tough love" he was dishing out. And, at the time, I didn't feel one bit remorseful about it.  I guess I didn't fight fair either.  I was hurt because we have done so much talking and discussing.  I thought at this point it would be a little easier to get to the end goal.  We've never fought this much.  We've had disagreements and heated discussions about our life together before, but nothing like this.  Thank you for all of your insight.  I took it to heart.

SaintPaulGal

I'm so glad to hear you are taking everybody's comments in the positive spirit with which they were intended.  I will add my voice to the chorus: get counseling right now, immediately, before any further plans are made.

Getting counseling doesn't mean you have failed.  It helps you lay the foundation for a successful relationship.  You need strategies in place for dealing with disagreements that arise.  Because no matter how great your relationship is, disagreements WILL arise.  

And I hate to even bring it up, but if you discover through counseling that there are some irreconcilable differences, it is far better to know that now than once you have gotten married and perhaps even scrambled your DNA with this person.  Don't be afraid to walk away if it comes to that.  Calling things off now is a thousand times better than pushing forward into the wrong marriage.

DrillSergeantCat

SaintPaulGal said:

I'm so glad to hear you are taking everybody's comments in the positive spirit with which they were intended.  I will add my voice to the chorus: get counseling right now, immediately, before any further plans are made.

Getting counseling doesn't mean you have failed.  It helps you lay the foundation for a successful relationship.  You need strategies in place for dealing with disagreements that arise.  Because no matter how great your relationship is, disagreements WILL arise.  

And I hate to even bring it up, but if you discover through counseling that there are some irreconcilable differences, it is far better to know that now than once you have gotten married and perhaps even scrambled your DNA with this person.  Don't be afraid to walk away if it comes to that.  Calling things off now is a thousand times better than pushing forward into the wrong marriage.

I always tell people that getting out of the wrong relationship does nothing but open you up for the right one. 

flantastic

Just on the "married and pregnant by now" front - what does that even mean? (Do you even know?)
1. Have you (plural) talked about when you want to have children?
2. Do you (singular) want to have children ASAP after marriage (as it seems that he does)?
3. Was that decision pushed back in order to save for a wedding?

Particularly if the answer to question 1 is no, then I'm adding emphasis on the counseling. You two need to learn to talk to one another about important things, how to compromise, and what happens after a compromise.

The Catholic Church offers pre-Cana preparation, and most of it isn't focused on any aspect of religious belief. It primarily brings up conversations that adults should definitely have before a marriage. That's a cheap option, although if you can afford an actual licensed relationship counselor, that would be much better.

Knottie1435002966

Hi Flantastic, the children comment would seem as if it were coming out of no where without context. We have talked about children. We've talked about it a lot. He already has a 16 year old daughter from a previous relationship, but I don't have any. We both would like to start a family, however, it has always been my personal preference to have my husband's children, not my boyfriend's, not my fiancé's.  I've taken necessary precautions to prevent pregnancy, even being celebate for years.  I'm one of the last of my friends to get married and start a family.  I recently commented, after seeing my self-described spinster cousin's birth announcement, that I felt like I had waited too long.  At 36, I have friends and family that are already GRANDPARENTS!

DrillSergeantCat

Knottie1435002966 said:

Hi Flantastic, the children comment would seem as if it were coming out of no where without context. We have talked about children. We've talked about it a lot. He already has a 16 year old daughter from a previous relationship, but I don't have any. We both would like to start a family, however, it has always been my personal preference to have my husband's children, not my boyfriend's, not my fiancé's.  I've taken necessary precautions to prevent pregnancy, even being celebate for years.  I'm one of the last of my friends to get married and start a family.  I recently commented, after seeing my self-described spinster cousin's birth announcement, that I felt like I had waited too long.  At 36, I have friends and family that are already GRANDPARENTS!

I'm 39 and pregnant. It's never too late (ok sometimes it is too late, but mid-thirties isn't). It's also different being an older mom vs. a younger one. Don't sweat it. 

artbyallie

Here's my take. He doesn't have to give a shit about any of the wedding-related pomp and circumstance if that's not his thing. (H enjoyed using the scanner gun for the wedding registry and wanted--and got!--input on the ceremony and reception, but male or female, that's not everyone's cup of tea.)

HOWEVER, what he does have to do (and of course this applies to you as well regarding things that are important to him) is to be respectful of you and of the things you consider important. His behavior is not appropriate. What is he, twelve?! It also sounds like he's bottling feelings about other situations (the stuff that he seemed to blurt out of nowhere) so a calm sit-down conversation about what all that's about should be in order too. You're never too old to practice mature communication.

Heffalump

DrillSergeantCat said:

Knottie1435002966 said:

Hi Flantastic, the children comment would seem as if it were coming out of no where without context. We have talked about children. We've talked about it a lot. He already has a 16 year old daughter from a previous relationship, but I don't have any. We both would like to start a family, however, it has always been my personal preference to have my husband's children, not my boyfriend's, not my fiancé's.  I've taken necessary precautions to prevent pregnancy, even being celebate for years.  I'm one of the last of my friends to get married and start a family.  I recently commented, after seeing my self-described spinster cousin's birth announcement, that I felt like I had waited too long.  At 36, I have friends and family that are already GRANDPARENTS!

I'm 39 and pregnant. It's never too late (ok sometimes it is too late, but mid-thirties isn't). It's also different being an older mom vs. a younger one. Don't sweat it. 

I had my first just 2 weeks before I turned 34, and my second at 38, and I have lived to tell the tale.   

Heffalump

Knottie1435002966 said:

Hi ladies! I don't think that your responses aren't at all harsh. I'm really at a place that I just want to throw my hands up. Usually, its hard to see where you also shoulder blame in any situation. In my eyes, I felt that he deserved my words because of the "tough love" he was dishing out. And, at the time, I didn't feel one bit remorseful about it.  I guess I didn't fight fair either.  I was hurt because we have done so much talking and discussing.  I thought at this point it would be a little easier to get to the end goal.  We've never fought this much.  We've had disagreements and heated discussions about our life together before, but nothing like this.  Thank you for all of your insight.  I took it to heart.

Also, I know it's super frustrating when someone says something is okay and then acts like it is definitely not.  But that's where I think talking it through is effective--sure, it's tempting to throw up your hands, I get that.  But it sounds like you're more interested in resolving your issues than arguing, so that's where I think counseling can be really helpful.

missJeanLouise

OP, don't get too discouraged. My FH has been great about wedding planning and even he needed a break from doing every little thing together. I built most of our registry on my own online, then shared it with him (amazon registry) for him to add to at his leisure. He did about 3 or 4 mo ths later.
Premarital counseling is great. We went to a low cost couseling clinic since neither of us are religious. I highly recommend it for all people talking about getting married.

mrsconn23

missJeanLouise said:

Premarital counseling is great. We went to a low cost couseling clinic since neither of us are religious. I highly recommend it for all people talking about getting married.

You could see if your company (or his) offers free counseling through an Employee Assistance Program.   DH and I sought counseling after we were married, and we got 5 sessions free. 

short+sassy

When my H and I got married, it was his third marriage and my first.

Like your FI, he would have liked nothing better than to have taken the day off, gone to a JOP, and then out to a nice dinner.  I understood his point of view, but he also understood mine.  I wanted a ceremony and reception with friends and family.  We compromised on a small, intimate wedding with 35 guests.

It was more than what he wanted.  A bit less than what I wanted.  But we worked together, communicated, and ended up with a wedding day we both cherished.  He was happy to make me happy, even if our plans weren't his first choice.  And that is what a marriage should be about on both sides.

For the planning leading up to it, I asked what decisions he wanted to be involved with and which ones he didn't.  Other than quick, verbal, "hey, our colors will be red/white, is that okay?," I didn't bother him with details he wasn't interested in.  He also didn't want to have a registry at all, because he didn't want gifts.  I told him people like to give gifts and, if they ask, I wanted to make things easier for our guests with a registry.

I know he saw choosing items for our registry as a bit of a chore.  One thing I did (strategically, muu-haha) knowing how he felt about the registry, is we only went to one brick and mortar store to set one up.  And then set a second one up at a national retailer, but set it up online.  That made it a lot more palatable for him.

Knottie1435002966

Hi ladies! Fiance and I had a very long discussion last night.  Did it go awesome? No. Did we get to the root of some things? Yes. Still a lot of work to do, but I was at least able to control my emotions enough to actually sit down and communicate with him.  I have realized (bullshit, I've known for a long time) that talking is not my favorite type of communication, but it is his.  I have to think and write down everything I want to say so that I won't miss anything.  Usually, when I do that, he said he feels like I'm in "teacher mode" (I used to be a teacher) and he automatically gets defensive.  So step 1, we agreed to have the conversation about what happened when we went to fill out the registry.  He told me that he would take the day to think about his feelings and I told him that I would take the day too, but that I was more comfortable in writing them down so that I wouldn't forget anything or stray off topic.  It really helped the both of us.  I didn't go awesome because I didn't like all of his feelings or opinions and vice versa, but we had the conversation. 

Thanks for listening ladies.  I just needed a friend.

SaintPaulGal

Just a thought: if writing things out is important to you but when you read off a script he feels like you are acting like a teacher, how about you have these exchanges entirely via email, at least for a while?  That might help you get to the bottom of some things in a less heated and emotional way.  It's not a magic bullet and it doesn't replace the need for counseling, but it could be a helpful strategy until you get a handle on some basic rules of engagement. 

kimmiinthemitten

Knottie1435002966 said:

Hi ladies! Fiance and I had a very long discussion last night.  Did it go awesome? No. Did we get to the root of some things? Yes. Still a lot of work to do, but I was at least able to control my emotions enough to actually sit down and communicate with him.  I have realized (bullshit, I've known for a long time) that talking is not my favorite type of communication, but it is his.  I have to think and write down everything I want to say so that I won't miss anything.  Usually, when I do that, he said he feels like I'm in "teacher mode" (I used to be a teacher) and he automatically gets defensive.  So step 1, we agreed to have the conversation about what happened when we went to fill out the registry.  He told me that he would take the day to think about his feelings and I told him that I would take the day too, but that I was more comfortable in writing them down so that I wouldn't forget anything or stray off topic.  It really helped the both of us.  I didn't go awesome because I didn't like all of his feelings or opinions and vice versa, but we had the conversation. 

Thanks for listening ladies.  I just needed a friend.

I'm glad you spoke but the bolded still concerns me. You're making an effort to communicate in his medium and he needs to respect yours. That statement is extremely patronizing. 

DrillSergeantCat

SaintPaulGal said:

Just a thought: if writing things out is important to you but when you read off a script he feels like you are acting like a teacher, how about you have these exchanges entirely via email, at least for a while?  That might help you get to the bottom of some things in a less heated and emotional way.  It's not a magic bullet and it doesn't replace the need for counseling, but it could be a helpful strategy until you get a handle on some basic rules of engagement. 

Or it could make things worse because of lack of tone. 

OP this is where I statements are extremely important. Example, "When you do (insert behavior), I feel (this emotion)." That makes it harder to get defensive. Try to not talk in absolutes like "You always" or "You never."

SaintPaulGal

DrillSergeantCat said:

SaintPaulGal said:

Just a thought: if writing things out is important to you but when you read off a script he feels like you are acting like a teacher, how about you have these exchanges entirely via email, at least for a while?  That might help you get to the bottom of some things in a less heated and emotional way.  It's not a magic bullet and it doesn't replace the need for counseling, but it could be a helpful strategy until you get a handle on some basic rules of engagement. 

Or it could make things worse because of lack of tone. 

OP this is where I statements are extremely important. Example, "When you do (insert behavior), I feel (this emotion)." That makes it harder to get defensive. Try to not talk in absolutes like "You always" or "You never."

True.  I guess it really depends on communication skills and styles.  My partner and I have pretty comparable skills in open communication, thank god.  But sometimes if I am really upset about something it is easier for me to text him about it because it forces me to select precise language and really get at the heart of what is bothering me.  Plus I don't have to worry about breaking into tears and then having the emotional response get in the way of what I am trying to say.  This has happened maybe two or three times in our relationship, where we have the initial convo via text and then follow up with an actual discussion once the important points are already out there.  But maybe this works for us because we both tend to be very intentional about word choice and conveying meaning.