need advice on breach of contract [Update in comments-- it gets WORSE]

thisismynickname2 · January 2015

Hi all,

My wedding was 9/13/14 and I only have half of my professional wedding photos uploaded online, and I have not received the CD I am owed with all the images.

The contract said I'd have everything within 60 days (11/13/14). The photographer is self employed.

This photographer went completely MIA until December, at which time she uploaded half the photos. She wrote a nice apology letter and explained that she had a bit of a family tragedy, which of course I understand. I wrote a nice reply but was honestly of the impression that, since she was in process of uploading my photos, that I'd get all of them. But no, I got half. She also said in her e-mail that in 2015 she would no longer be doing wedding photography. Thanks to the internet I know she is doing other professional photography and theatre endeavors in her own name (rather than her wedding photo company name). Again, thanks to the internet, I know she is out and about going on vacation and seeing friends.

So, I waited a bit, and before New Years I wrote a stern e-mail explaining that I am requesting to have my completed CD no later than January 13th. It was stern, but I think it was plenty polite. I love the photos so far and said as much. I think two months' grace period on a contract is generous. In the business world, collections start 60-90 days past due, right.

The contract said she would not be held liable for "unforeseen delays." Unforeseen: family tragedy. Not unforeseen: taking other jobs and going on vacation.

My husband thinks I should not have written the stern letter and should just be patient. He thinks if I bother her, that she'll just take longer out of spite, or do a half-ass job editing the rest of the photos. He says she's immature and I should just wait.

I say I have a freaking contract and I don't care if you're self employed, you honor a contract. I can't threaten her company with bad reviews, after all, since she's no longer doing the wedding business.

So, I am waiting until the 13th. From there, I am considering filing a complaint with the city's Consumer Protection. As of January 13th it would be four months since my wedding and two months overdue on the contract. I know some lawyers at work and they all said in my shoes, they'd hire a lawyer to send a nastygram, which usually works. I know my husband won't go for that. (And since the lawyers work for my employer, they can't do a favor for me due to liability.)

What say you? Take hard-hitting action, or wait awhile longer?

Thanks a bunch.

novella1186 · January 2015

I'd wait till January 13th like you said, and then have a lawyer write up a letter to her, as your friends at work advised you. It doesn't have to be overly threatening. It can just outline your expectations, remind her of that particular clause in the contract, and insure her what specific legal action you're prepared to take at this point, including collecting damages (if you're eligible for damages in a case like this; ask the lawyer). This seems like pretty clear-cut breach of contract.

If your husband really doesn't want to go that route (yet) then reach out to her again after the 13th and tell her you need to know the date by which she'll have everything delivered or you're going to consult a lawyer. Either way, I find this really frustrating. It makes me ragey for you! When people fail to perform on their contract there should be some sort of consequence, IMO

MairePoppy · January 2015

She should have gotten in touch with you to update you on the timeline when she realized she wasn't going to make the deadline.

I wouldn't wait, because I'm a PITA. I have found that contacting the consumer protection department in my state usually gets prompt results.

artbyallie · January 2015

What do you mean by saying you got 'half' the photos? Do you have ceremony but not reception? Pictures of his family but not yours? Or do you merely have half of the total number taken?

No good photographer is going to give you every single shot they snapped because they weed out the ones that didn't come out quite as good and edit select ones so that you get the best quality pictures. That's why they take so many. I have worked with photographers on numerous occasions and they will take hundreds of pictures, many of which I never see. That means they're doing their job correctly rather than the reverse.

Also, it's ultimately none of your concern if she wants to take her business a different direction. There are lots of photographers who don't do weddings. Weddings are long, require working weekends, and involve dealing with bridezillas/momzillas (not saying you are being one, just that many can be difficult to work with).

charlottesmom0626 · January 2015

artbyallie said:

What do you mean by saying you got 'half' the photos? Do you have ceremony but not reception? Pictures of his family but not yours? Or do you merely have half of the total number taken?

No good photographer is going to give you every single shot they snapped because they weed out the ones that didn't come out quite as good and edit select ones so that you get the best quality pictures. That's why they take so many. I have worked with photographers on numerous occasions and they will take hundreds of pictures, many of which I never see. That means they're doing their job correctly rather than the reverse.

Also, it's ultimately none of your concern if she wants to take her business a different direction. There are lots of photographers who don't do weddings. Weddings are long, require working weekends, and involve dealing with bridezillas/momzillas (not saying you are being one, just that many can be difficult to work with).

This. How do you know you have half? If there are pictures from your entire wedding day, you might just have all your photos. You're still entitled to the CD you were promised, but I wouldn't count on additional pictures at this point.

dcbride86 · January 2015

I'm also confused about how you know you only have half, but you're obviously still entitled to the CD. Also, double check the contract to make sure it says 60 days instead of 60 business days.

I would email her again soon, and be a bit more stern, but still polite. All business. At the end of the month, if she still hasn't responded, have an attorney draft a demand letter. That usually gets people moving fairly quickly. I don't know what state you live in (or the laws of that state), but I've drafted my fair share of demand letters and they don't take a long time to do. You shouldn't have to pay a lawyer for more than an hour or so to have a well-drafted one.

thisismynickname2 · January 2015

Hi there,

What I mean by "half" is I have all the preceremony formal portraits. I have the ceremony, and some cocktail hour photos. I have nothing from dinner onwards- no cake cutting, no toasts, no first dance, no dance floor action. She and her second shooter were taking lots of photos. There's a 3 hour time period from which there are no photos.

And @artbyallie, while it's certainly not my concern what she does with her photography business, it IS my concern that she follows through on contracts made while she was still officially a wedding photographer. Just because she decided to stop doing weddings in 2015 doesn't mean she can simply not edit and upload, and mail me, 3 more hours worth of the 8 she was contractually paid for. That's what I mean, and that's why I believe it's breach of contract. She was not to be held liable for unforseen delays, but her taking her business in another direction and leaving my photos undone is certainly "foreseen."

But like Marie says, another issue is her inability to communicate when she'll be done. Don't just say "next few days" and not talk to me again for a month. It's just been so frustrating. I'm leaning towards the Consumer Complaint process after the 13th, as the lawyer is going to cost a couple hundred bucks.

This is all too bad- other than the communication and this delay, she was great to work with and the photos are just as beautiful as I'd hoped.

l9i · January 2015

We only got about 2/3 of our pictures (mistake, not on purpose, and was fixed right away) because our photographers forgot a CD. We knew, because we didn't have any reception photos. Perhaps this is the same instance when she says she only got half.

dcbride86 · January 2015

I would write another email right away detailing exactly what happened and what you are owed. It's important to have a paper trail with these things. Include a timeline, and mention the times you have called and emailed her in the past.

Something like:

Dear [photographer],

I hope this email finds you well. I am emailing in reference to the photos from my [date] wedding at [location]. As stipulated in our contract, my photos were to be sent to me within 60 days of the wedding, which would have been [date]. On [date], you contacted me to tell me that you had a family emergency and were running behind. I expressed understanding for the extenuating circumstances. However, to date, I have only received photos of [description]. I am still missing photos of [description], as well as a CD of my photos.

Please respond as soon as possible with the remainder of my photos or with when I can expect to be sent the remainder of my photos as well as the CD.

Respectfully,

[Name]

PrettyGirlLost · January 2015

Go talk with a lawyer.

thisismynickname2 · January 2015

dcbride86 said:

I would write another email right away detailing exactly what happened and what you are owed. It's important to have a paper trail with these things. Include a timeline, and mention the times you have called and emailed her in the past.
Something like:
Dear [photographer],
I hope this email finds you well. I am emailing in reference to the photos from my [date] wedding at [location]. As stipulated in our contract, my photos were to be sent to me within 60 days of the wedding, which would have been [date]. On [date], you contacted me to tell me that you had a family emergency and were running behind. I expressed understanding for the extenuating circumstances. However, to date, I have only received photos of [description]. I am still missing photos of [description], as well as a CD of my photos.
Please respond as soon as possible with the remainder of my photos or with when I can expect to be sent the remainder of my photos as well as the CD.
Respectfully,
[Name]

Yup, this was basically what I did in my last "stern" message. She hasn't responded but my subject line was "Requesting completed CD by January 13" and in the body I mentioned the contract and said that 1/13 would be 60 days past due.

Well, since it seems like the reasonable and polite options are exhausted, if I don't have this sucker next week I'll see what the Consumer Complaint office can do for me. The lawyer letter is my last option because it's going to cost me...

I hate to do this. Thanks for the advice!

dcbride86 · January 2015

thisismynickname said:

dcbride86 said:

I would write another email right away detailing exactly what happened and what you are owed. It's important to have a paper trail with these things. Include a timeline, and mention the times you have called and emailed her in the past.
Something like:
Dear [photographer],
I hope this email finds you well. I am emailing in reference to the photos from my [date] wedding at [location]. As stipulated in our contract, my photos were to be sent to me within 60 days of the wedding, which would have been [date]. On [date], you contacted me to tell me that you had a family emergency and were running behind. I expressed understanding for the extenuating circumstances. However, to date, I have only received photos of [description]. I am still missing photos of [description], as well as a CD of my photos.
Please respond as soon as possible with the remainder of my photos or with when I can expect to be sent the remainder of my photos as well as the CD.
Respectfully,
[Name]

Yup, this was basically what I did in my last "stern" message. She hasn't responded but my subject line was "Requesting completed CD by January 13" and in the body I mentioned the contract and said that 1/13 would be 60 days past due.

Well, since it seems like the reasonable and polite options are exhausted, if I don't have this sucker next week I'll see what the Consumer Complaint office can do for me. The lawyer letter is my last option because it's going to cost me...

I hate to do this. Thanks for the advice!

I'm almost positive I'm not barred in your state, so I certainly can't write a letter for you or anything, but if you would like any advice or help, please feel free to DM me. I'd be happy to do some research for you

thisismynickname2 · January 2015

Thanks @dcbride86!

dcbride86 · January 2015

No problem

. Also, hiring a lawyer shouldn't cost you anything upfront. Most will just do it on a contingency. PM me if you have any questions, and I can do as much for you as I'm allowed to while only having bar membership in another state.

JCbride2015 · January 2015

You aren't in NJ, are you?

thisismynickname2 · January 2015

No, I'm in Chicago.

I did speak a few weeks back with two different male lawyers (this was after she was completely MIA for a month and no photos whatsoever) who were very gung-ho that a nastygram would light a fire under the photographer's butt. One charges a bit more than the other (an hour of billable time). I thanked them for the info and said I might be in touch if the situation worsened.

It's really my last resort, one for money reason and two because my husband thinks I'll only piss her off royally and have even less a chance of getting my photos. The lawyers said if she didn't respond to a legal letter, the next step would be actually suing here -$$$$! That just scares me.

dcbride86 · January 2015

thisismynickname said:

No, I'm in Chicago.

I did speak a few weeks back with two different male lawyers (this was after she was completely MIA for a month and no photos whatsoever) who were very gung-ho that a nastygram would light a fire under the photographer's butt. One charges a bit more than the other (an hour of billable time). I thanked them for the info and said I might be in touch if the situation worsened.

It's really my last resort, one for money reason and two because my husband thinks I'll only piss her off royally and have even less a chance of getting my photos. The lawyers said if she didn't respond to a legal letter, the next step would be actually suing here -$$$$! That just scares me.

I'll tell you a little secret: they aways respond to demand letters. Always. One semester during law school, I interned at a firm where I basically just wrote demand letters all day (super fun job!), and there was literally a 100% response rate. Usually the response contained a settlement offer, and most of my cases were a lot more muddled than this.

Also, she doesn't want to be sued - especially when it appears to be a pretty clear breach of contract action. She would respond within 30 days with the pictures because it's certainly not worth it to her to go to court. And it did go to court (it wouldn't), she would have to pay your legal fees after it settled in mandatory pre-trial conferences.

thisismynickname2 · January 2015

Thanks again @dcbride86.... I will absolutely keep that in mind. I appreciate it!

atlastmrsg · January 2015

dcbride86 said:

No problem . Also, hiring a lawyer shouldn't cost you anything upfront. Most will just do it on a contingency. PM me if you have any questions, and I can do as much for you as I'm allowed to while only having bar membership in another state.

No. I charge hourly rates, never contingency on things like this. What do I have to get out of something like this that's contingency? 30-40% of the recovery would be 30-40% of the photos since she isn't asking for anything financial.

And yes, hiring a lawyer costs money upfront unless the person is doing you a favor. Many of us offer a 30-minute free consultation, but then we often charge a retainer for anticipated hourly bills, a filing fee if an action is initiated, etc.

So while @dcbride86 might not charge, I can't say the same for those that I practice with. If you end up hiring someone, don't go without being prepared to pay. It won't be much though since a letter is less than an hour of work. Even a small claims court is something that can be given to the newest attorney in a group with the lowest billing rate for just a few hours of work.

dcbride86 · January 2015

atlastmrsg said:

dcbride86 said:

No problem . Also, hiring a lawyer shouldn't cost you anything upfront. Most will just do it on a contingency. PM me if you have any questions, and I can do as much for you as I'm allowed to while only having bar membership in another state.

No. I charge hourly rates, never contingency on things like this. What do I have to get out of something like this that's contingency? 30-40% of the recovery would be 30-40% of the photos since she isn't asking for anything financial.

And yes, hiring a lawyer costs money upfront unless the person is doing you a favor. Many of us offer a 30-minute free consultation, but then we often charge a retainer for anticipated hourly bills, a filing fee if an action is initiated, etc.

So while @dcbride86 might not charge, I can't say the same for those that I practice with. If you end up hiring someone, don't go without being prepared to pay. It won't be much though since a letter is less than an hour of work. Even a small claims court is something that can be given to the newest attorney in a group with the lowest billing rate for just a few hours of work.

I assumed she would be asking for monetary damages as well as the actual pictures, which is why a lawyer would take it on a contingency. I admittedly primarily have experience with the government, where this wouldn't be an issue, but all the small firms I've worked with and my friends have worked with took everything on contingency (except obviously criminal law, child support, etc.). Yes, if she exclusively asked for the pictures in a legal action, she would have to pay an hourly rate. I just assumed that wouldn't be the case.

thisismynickname2 · January 2015

Yeah, I was quoted about $150 to $350. A billable hour. No big deal in the grand scheme of things, but enough to make me want to exhaust all other options first!

novella1186 · January 2015

I had to hire a lawyer for a real estate legal battle last year. All he did was send two letters, and I met with him once and we e-mailed back and forth a few times. $2,800.

ETA: he also read through the contracts and related correspondence, and of course billed me per hour for that too. So don't count on it being free/cheap if it has to go beyond just sending 1 letter.

LadyMillil · January 2015

I'm in Canada so it's likely different, but I had a similar problem with my photographer. We went through the Better Business Bureau and the Ministry of Consumer Affairs. They sent a letter to the photographer stating all the consequences he could face if he didn't give us the photos or our money back, which included fines in the $10,000s and jail time. We didn't have to pay anything, but we had a wait time of one month before they got to our complaint. The photographer never contacted us after, but all the pictures were put in DropBox for me about 2 weeks later. Suing and going to small claims court was the last resort.

sophhabobopha · January 2015

That's so frustrating! How unprofessional of her, my god.

Good luck!

lurkergirl · January 2015

LadyMillil said:
I'm in Canada so it's likely different, but I had a similar problem with my photographer. We went through the Better Business Bureau and the Ministry of Consumer Affairs. They sent a letter to the photographer stating all the consequences he could face if he didn't give us the photos or our money back, which included fines in the $10,000s and jail time. We didn't have to pay anything, but we had a wait time of one month before they got to our complaint. The photographer never contacted us after, but all the pictures were put in DropBox for me about 2 weeks later. Suing and going to small claims court was the last resort.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

I was wondering what happened with that! So glad you finally got them!

thisismynickname2 · January 2015

Well, everyone, it gets worse.

I haven't heard from the photographer since December 8. This past Friday, DH called his credit card company to dispute half the charges. Apparently, the photographer is supposed to find out right quick that her money is gone from whichever account of hers holds such payments.

We spent time with my family over the weekend and I was telling them some more about the issues. My sister looked up the company on Yelp and told me, "Did you see there's a really recent review on Yelp?"

I looked and sure enough, there was. ANOTHER bride with no communication from our photographer. Yelp lets you e-mail people so I did-- I told the other bride that I was in the same boat as her.

So, the other bride has received nothing. No communication since the end of November. She also outreached to the second shooter and the second shooter has also been trying to reach the primary photographer to prompt her into action.

Apparently, the other bride had sent a demand letter in December--- no response. She just disputed her credit card charges as well. She logged a complaint with the Attorney General and gave me the record number in case I want to pile on. She recently logged a complaint with the BBB- no response just yet, but it's a new complaint. She's looking into hiring an attorney to sue the photographer (not the one who wrote the letter; they didn't like that attorney.)

I told the other bride I might be interested in joining forces legally but that I'm not ready yet. I think the photographer is putting her head in the sand and hoping this will all just go away. Seriously.

I reached the second shooter yesterday and she just feels terrible. She's trying to help both me and the other bride. She's willing to complete the work if the primary photographer will just hand over the remaining images. At the wedding, she used the primary photog's memory cards and did not get copies for herself. She also feels terrible about that and said in the future she'd do that.

I wrote another text and e-mail to the primary asking her if she'd hand over the work. We'll see how this goes.

You have to think that missing several thousand dollars from your account would spur a person into JUST COMPLETING THE WORK right? Right??

In the meantime, I have the aforementioned images online and I don't give a fuck about watermarks. That photographer owed me a CD of all digital images and printing rights. My family and I are all right-click-saving to our computers and I should be able to get those on Snapfish and at least get 4x6 prints at decent resolution. It's better than nothing.

ARGGGG. Something had to go wrong, right? Something always goes wrong with a wedding. My day was perfect so this is the one thing that had to go wrong.

themuffinman16 · January 2015

I am so ragey for you, right now. I don't know how people can be so low! I hope that, by some, miracle, you get your photos back. Hugs

novella1186 · January 2015

WTF is wrong with this photog? It's one thing if she just doesn't feel like doing the work, but she won't even hand the raw images over to the second shooter? Why not? Why can't she just mail the memory cards or something? Ugh. This makes me so mad for you. I would be incredibly frustrated. And it's scary to think that other brides are also going through the exact same thing. How many people have been totally screwed by this asshole?

If she's being threatened by legal action, why can't she just hand the stuff over? Why!!!

[Deleted User] · January 2015

thisismynickname2 · January 2015

pinkrevenge said:

novella1186 said:

WTF is wrong with this photog? It's one thing if she just doesn't feel like doing the work, but she won't even hand the raw images over to the second shooter? Why not? Why can't she just mail the memory cards or something? Ugh. This makes me so mad for you. I would be incredibly frustrated. And it's scary to think that other brides are also going through the exact same thing. How many people have been totally screwed by this asshole?

If she's being threatened by legal action, why can't she just hand the stuff over? Why!!!

That's what gets me too. She doesn't even have to do the work, she literally just has to hand over the raw data. It takes NO effort on her part, none, and then she won't be sued into the ground. Why in the hell would she not immediately toss those files over like a hot potato and save her skin?

At this point, the second shooter is going to do what she can too to get the images and complete the work. I'm praying she can talk sense into the primary photog....!

lovegood90 · January 2015

UGH! I'm so mad for you! Sue her ass. Best of luck to you and the other bride!

need advice on breach of contract [Update in comments-- it gets WORSE]

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