Wedding Woes

I feel bad for Mia, but your husband's frustration is understandable.

Dear Prudence,

Our daughter “Mia” and her husband have been struggling with infertility for the past decade. They burned through all their savings, had two GoFundMe’s, and asked everyone in the family for money. My husband and I have already given them thousands and thousands of dollars. We are tapped out. We recently helped our other daughter with a down payment on a new house. When Mia found out, she got extremely upset and accused us of favoring her sister and not wanting to help her become a mother. The girls ended up getting into an ugly fight and are no longer speaking. My husband lost his temper with Mia and told her we give her more than any of our other children and nothing came of it. He also said that she needs to seek professional help and to come to grips with the fact that she might not have a biological child. I know he regretted it as soon as the words came out of his mouth, but the damage was done. Mia is no longer speaking to us. My husband has apologized many times, but Mia will not bend. We don’t know what to do.

— Mia Matters

Re: I feel bad for Mia, but your husband's frustration is understandable.

  • Oof.  This is terrible for everyone involved.  

    I think LW is just going to have to back off for awhile and let Mia process.  

    I don't quite know how to say this, but I hope Mia and her husband do go into therapy for tools on how to deal with this.  This issue already affects so many aspects of the "wanting to be parents" people and it seems to be getting larger for them now.  I also can't imagine slogging away at this for a decade.
  • mrsconn23 said:
    banana468 said:
    You need to have a quiet one on one with Mia.

    The stress of someone going through infertility compares to the stress of someone going through cancer.

    But there comes a time where Mia needs to face two things:
    1) The reality that they've spent a lot of money and it's not leading to a pregnancy that is sustained.  

    2) (and maybe say this first).  Apologize for the outburst and the tone but then follow up w/ the above.  Furthermore, you can also advise Mia that she's allowed to be frustrated and sad in her situation but she's not entitled to be upset that you are no longer paying for this.

    Then recommend therapy  - Allll the therapy. 
    Also, that attacking her sister because you helped her out with a down payment on a house was uncalled for and unacceptable. 

    I understand the frustration and sadness of this process so far being unsuccessful is likely driving the feelings, but the entitlement is out of control.  And Mia's sister could turn the tables right back on her since LW has funded Mia's fertility journey. 
    I completely agree.  I'd probably add that you can be upset that this is not working but I will not be criticized for how I spend my money especially when I truly HAVE kept things equal.  

    Depending on the conversation I may add, "You're allowed to have your feelings but when you said this, it really hurt because truth be told, we have spent far more on you than your sister through all the fertility treatments and the criticism was both hurtful and inaccurate." 
  • I think LW and family really needs to stay focused on Mia's behavior and not the issue driving it b/c there's no way to deal with that for Mia or get through to Mia.  I mean...a decade?  I am floored, I don't think I've had any friends who pursued it longer than 5 years without making some sort of "not biological child" decision; a decade is really scary to me for a lot of reasons, not just $.  I'm really curious what Mia's husband thinks of all of this.

    I like the apology for the outburst and tone.  After that, I think I'd stay focused on "we are in charge of our money and the decisions for it.  We have given you X amount and that is all we are able to give to you.  What we give your sister is between your sister and us and will be remaining so."  I'd tell the other sister the conversation and try and make sure everyone toed that same line, so that Mia met with a firm wall about money conversations from anyone again.  Maybe that would be the shock of reality she needs to start dealing with this issue for real and hopefully through therapy.
  • banana468 said:
    mrsconn23 said:
    banana468 said:
    You need to have a quiet one on one with Mia.

    The stress of someone going through infertility compares to the stress of someone going through cancer.

    But there comes a time where Mia needs to face two things:
    1) The reality that they've spent a lot of money and it's not leading to a pregnancy that is sustained.  

    2) (and maybe say this first).  Apologize for the outburst and the tone but then follow up w/ the above.  Furthermore, you can also advise Mia that she's allowed to be frustrated and sad in her situation but she's not entitled to be upset that you are no longer paying for this.

    Then recommend therapy  - Allll the therapy. 
    Also, that attacking her sister because you helped her out with a down payment on a house was uncalled for and unacceptable. 

    I understand the frustration and sadness of this process so far being unsuccessful is likely driving the feelings, but the entitlement is out of control.  And Mia's sister could turn the tables right back on her since LW has funded Mia's fertility journey. 
    I completely agree.  I'd probably add that you can be upset that this is not working but I will not be criticized for how I spend my money especially when I truly HAVE kept things equal.  

    Depending on the conversation I may add, "You're allowed to have your feelings but when you said this, it really hurt because truth be told, we have spent far more on you than your sister through all the fertility treatments and the criticism was both hurtful and inaccurate." 
    Agreed!  I don't fault the dad for pointing out that more money has already been spent on Mia, so the parents are being fair.  But talking about how "nothing came of it", implying it was wasted money, was really cruel.

    Mia is way too entitled and was being a jerk, but her father should be falling all over himself for how he said things.

    And Mia doesn't need to accept his apology.  She probably and hopefully will someday, but she needs more time.  The LW (mom) should occasionally reach out to her.  But, overall, they need to give Mia space.
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • banana468 said:
    mrsconn23 said:
    banana468 said:
    You need to have a quiet one on one with Mia.

    The stress of someone going through infertility compares to the stress of someone going through cancer.

    But there comes a time where Mia needs to face two things:
    1) The reality that they've spent a lot of money and it's not leading to a pregnancy that is sustained.  

    2) (and maybe say this first).  Apologize for the outburst and the tone but then follow up w/ the above.  Furthermore, you can also advise Mia that she's allowed to be frustrated and sad in her situation but she's not entitled to be upset that you are no longer paying for this.

    Then recommend therapy  - Allll the therapy. 
    Also, that attacking her sister because you helped her out with a down payment on a house was uncalled for and unacceptable. 

    I understand the frustration and sadness of this process so far being unsuccessful is likely driving the feelings, but the entitlement is out of control.  And Mia's sister could turn the tables right back on her since LW has funded Mia's fertility journey. 
    I completely agree.  I'd probably add that you can be upset that this is not working but I will not be criticized for how I spend my money especially when I truly HAVE kept things equal.  

    Depending on the conversation I may add, "You're allowed to have your feelings but when you said this, it really hurt because truth be told, we have spent far more on you than your sister through all the fertility treatments and the criticism was both hurtful and inaccurate." 
    Agreed!  I don't fault the dad for pointing out that more money has already been spent on Mia, so the parents are being fair.  But talking about how "nothing came of it", implying it was wasted money, was really cruel.

    Mia is way too entitled and was being a jerk, but her father should be falling all over himself for how he said things.

    And Mia doesn't need to accept his apology.  She probably and hopefully will someday, but she needs more time.  The LW (mom) should occasionally reach out to her.  But, overall, they need to give Mia space.
    Agreed.  The husband's word choice was terrible. 

    And it's why I wonder if Mia's feelings of entitlement are due to her desperation (again, similar to going through cancer).  She's looking for ONE MORE option but also needs to face reality.

    It's why I really wish that there was some kind of a requirement that those who worked with a reproductive endocrinologist had a requirement for a psychologist in conjunction once the treatments exceeded 1-2 standard deviations of average timing.  
  • banana468 said:
    banana468 said:
    mrsconn23 said:
    banana468 said:
    You need to have a quiet one on one with Mia.

    The stress of someone going through infertility compares to the stress of someone going through cancer.

    But there comes a time where Mia needs to face two things:
    1) The reality that they've spent a lot of money and it's not leading to a pregnancy that is sustained.  

    2) (and maybe say this first).  Apologize for the outburst and the tone but then follow up w/ the above.  Furthermore, you can also advise Mia that she's allowed to be frustrated and sad in her situation but she's not entitled to be upset that you are no longer paying for this.

    Then recommend therapy  - Allll the therapy. 
    Also, that attacking her sister because you helped her out with a down payment on a house was uncalled for and unacceptable. 

    I understand the frustration and sadness of this process so far being unsuccessful is likely driving the feelings, but the entitlement is out of control.  And Mia's sister could turn the tables right back on her since LW has funded Mia's fertility journey. 
    I completely agree.  I'd probably add that you can be upset that this is not working but I will not be criticized for how I spend my money especially when I truly HAVE kept things equal.  

    Depending on the conversation I may add, "You're allowed to have your feelings but when you said this, it really hurt because truth be told, we have spent far more on you than your sister through all the fertility treatments and the criticism was both hurtful and inaccurate." 
    Agreed!  I don't fault the dad for pointing out that more money has already been spent on Mia, so the parents are being fair.  But talking about how "nothing came of it", implying it was wasted money, was really cruel.

    Mia is way too entitled and was being a jerk, but her father should be falling all over himself for how he said things.

    And Mia doesn't need to accept his apology.  She probably and hopefully will someday, but she needs more time.  The LW (mom) should occasionally reach out to her.  But, overall, they need to give Mia space.
    Agreed.  The husband's word choice was terrible. 

    And it's why I wonder if Mia's feelings of entitlement are due to her desperation (again, similar to going through cancer).  She's looking for ONE MORE option but also needs to face reality.

    It's why I really wish that there was some kind of a requirement that those who worked with a reproductive endocrinologist had a requirement for a psychologist in conjunction once the treatments exceeded 1-2 standard deviations of average timing.  
    Most fertility clinics already require some level of counseling 
  • banana468 said:
    banana468 said:
    mrsconn23 said:
    banana468 said:
    You need to have a quiet one on one with Mia.

    The stress of someone going through infertility compares to the stress of someone going through cancer.

    But there comes a time where Mia needs to face two things:
    1) The reality that they've spent a lot of money and it's not leading to a pregnancy that is sustained.  

    2) (and maybe say this first).  Apologize for the outburst and the tone but then follow up w/ the above.  Furthermore, you can also advise Mia that she's allowed to be frustrated and sad in her situation but she's not entitled to be upset that you are no longer paying for this.

    Then recommend therapy  - Allll the therapy. 
    Also, that attacking her sister because you helped her out with a down payment on a house was uncalled for and unacceptable. 

    I understand the frustration and sadness of this process so far being unsuccessful is likely driving the feelings, but the entitlement is out of control.  And Mia's sister could turn the tables right back on her since LW has funded Mia's fertility journey. 
    I completely agree.  I'd probably add that you can be upset that this is not working but I will not be criticized for how I spend my money especially when I truly HAVE kept things equal.  

    Depending on the conversation I may add, "You're allowed to have your feelings but when you said this, it really hurt because truth be told, we have spent far more on you than your sister through all the fertility treatments and the criticism was both hurtful and inaccurate." 
    Agreed!  I don't fault the dad for pointing out that more money has already been spent on Mia, so the parents are being fair.  But talking about how "nothing came of it", implying it was wasted money, was really cruel.

    Mia is way too entitled and was being a jerk, but her father should be falling all over himself for how he said things.

    And Mia doesn't need to accept his apology.  She probably and hopefully will someday, but she needs more time.  The LW (mom) should occasionally reach out to her.  But, overall, they need to give Mia space.
    Agreed.  The husband's word choice was terrible. 

    And it's why I wonder if Mia's feelings of entitlement are due to her desperation (again, similar to going through cancer).  She's looking for ONE MORE option but also needs to face reality.

    It's why I really wish that there was some kind of a requirement that those who worked with a reproductive endocrinologist had a requirement for a psychologist in conjunction once the treatments exceeded 1-2 standard deviations of average timing.  
    Most fertility clinics already require some level of counseling 
    And if it's going on 10 years then they need to be aggressive with it.    Furthermore after 10 years I'd want to see more disclaimers about any additional procedures offered.   These are often an out of pocket expense which means that patients are paying out of pocket in cash.  Cash is king but there is a point where you're taking money and know it's not going to work. 
  • banana468 said:
    banana468 said:
    banana468 said:
    mrsconn23 said:
    banana468 said:
    You need to have a quiet one on one with Mia.

    The stress of someone going through infertility compares to the stress of someone going through cancer.

    But there comes a time where Mia needs to face two things:
    1) The reality that they've spent a lot of money and it's not leading to a pregnancy that is sustained.  

    2) (and maybe say this first).  Apologize for the outburst and the tone but then follow up w/ the above.  Furthermore, you can also advise Mia that she's allowed to be frustrated and sad in her situation but she's not entitled to be upset that you are no longer paying for this.

    Then recommend therapy  - Allll the therapy. 
    Also, that attacking her sister because you helped her out with a down payment on a house was uncalled for and unacceptable. 

    I understand the frustration and sadness of this process so far being unsuccessful is likely driving the feelings, but the entitlement is out of control.  And Mia's sister could turn the tables right back on her since LW has funded Mia's fertility journey. 
    I completely agree.  I'd probably add that you can be upset that this is not working but I will not be criticized for how I spend my money especially when I truly HAVE kept things equal.  

    Depending on the conversation I may add, "You're allowed to have your feelings but when you said this, it really hurt because truth be told, we have spent far more on you than your sister through all the fertility treatments and the criticism was both hurtful and inaccurate." 
    Agreed!  I don't fault the dad for pointing out that more money has already been spent on Mia, so the parents are being fair.  But talking about how "nothing came of it", implying it was wasted money, was really cruel.

    Mia is way too entitled and was being a jerk, but her father should be falling all over himself for how he said things.

    And Mia doesn't need to accept his apology.  She probably and hopefully will someday, but she needs more time.  The LW (mom) should occasionally reach out to her.  But, overall, they need to give Mia space.
    Agreed.  The husband's word choice was terrible. 

    And it's why I wonder if Mia's feelings of entitlement are due to her desperation (again, similar to going through cancer).  She's looking for ONE MORE option but also needs to face reality.

    It's why I really wish that there was some kind of a requirement that those who worked with a reproductive endocrinologist had a requirement for a psychologist in conjunction once the treatments exceeded 1-2 standard deviations of average timing.  
    Most fertility clinics already require some level of counseling 
    And if it's going on 10 years then they need to be aggressive with it.    Furthermore after 10 years I'd want to see more disclaimers about any additional procedures offered.   These are often an out of pocket expense which means that patients are paying out of pocket in cash.  Cash is king but there is a point where you're taking money and know it's not going to work. 
    Yeah this too I think is very much already happening. I’m sure there are isolate predatory practices but clinics are very open on the odds. And some people still want to keep on trying which is their right. 
  • Casadena said:
    I'm actually surprised that a fertility clinic is still working with them after this long. Unless they're doctor hopping, which they totally could be. Maybe someone with more medical knowledge can chime in, but i would think 10 solid years of medical intervention is pretty irresponsible on the part of the medical team? Thats definitely speculation, but in my couple of years of fertility intervention, there were definitely limits on how many times my doc would attempt certain procedures. 

    Dad said some very true things in a very hurtful way and should apologize. Mia should stop acting like an entitled child. Everyone has things to apologize for and move forward with. 
    And struggling with infertility for a decade doesn’t necessarily mean they’ve been doing back to back IVF cycles the whole time! That could include a couple years of just trying at home, some IUI rounds, attempted treatment of underlying conditions etc. I mean I fully agree it’s a very long time and it’s probably long past time to stop, but like you I doubt it’s been ten years of medical intervention with one team. 
  • Casadena said:
    I'm actually surprised that a fertility clinic is still working with them after this long. Unless they're doctor hopping, which they totally could be. Maybe someone with more medical knowledge can chime in, but i would think 10 solid years of medical intervention is pretty irresponsible on the part of the medical team? Thats definitely speculation, but in my couple of years of fertility intervention, there were definitely limits on how many times my doc would attempt certain procedures. 

    Dad said some very true things in a very hurtful way and should apologize. Mia should stop acting like an entitled child. Everyone has things to apologize for and move forward with. 
    And struggling with infertility for a decade doesn’t necessarily mean they’ve been doing back to back IVF cycles the whole time! That could include a couple years of just trying at home, some IUI rounds, attempted treatment of underlying conditions etc. I mean I fully agree it’s a very long time and it’s probably long past time to stop, but like you I doubt it’s been ten years of medical intervention with one team. 
    Definitely true!
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