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I'm Dealing With A Problem...

I've only been engaged a few months and already feel like my FI and I have been married for twenty years. We argue all the time. Before we were engaged we were completely perfect and now I feel like we are falling apart.

I feel like all my dreams are being crushed. When he proposed we had a plan for a beautiful, elegant fun wedding. Anytime i wanted to go see a venue he was on board and he was looking at magazines for suits and helped choose flowers and it seemed like a dream come true.

Than we started talking about our finances and he said "Until we get out of debt, no talking about the wedding." Well, it's been three months since then and we still aren't out of debt. I used to have enough money to pay my bills, put hundreds in savings a month and go out and spend money on myself. And now, we are pawning off almost all of our possessions to cover our bills (which I don't understand why because I'm still making the same amount I always have, just now I have to buy all the groceries, we only take my car places so I'm always using gas, plus my other bills, plus my school payments and I pay for when we go out to eat or the movies or anywhere). He is a bartender and says he hasn't been making enough in tips. Whatever. This isn't what I'm venting about... moving on.

He convinced me we don't need a big pretty wedding. Instead we agreed on only friends and family very simple ceremony. Which, I don't want, but I don't want him to resent me for making us save to have a beautiful wedding.

Well now, we agreed on a simple wedding and today I went out shopping for a dress with my mom, and I came home and told him I think I found the perfect one and he said "You don't need a dress. We aren't having a fancy wedding. Just dress like you..."

and it really upsets me. He still tells me he loves me and he wants to be my husband. I just think he would be happy if we just lived together for the rest of our lives (it's been two years so I don't think much is going to change). And I'm not a bridezilla. I just want something I'll be proud of 50 years later. And he just isn't helping at all.

Any advice?
Or words of encouragement?
Or.. whatever.

I just feel like I'm slowly losing everything I ever dreamed of. I even am busy applying for a second job (on top of another job and a full time grad school student) just so I can use the second job savings to go to a wedding so he won't have to worry about any of "his money" being put towards something stupid.

I'm just in serious need of other women to talk to
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Re: I'm Dealing With A Problem...

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    First, you shouldn't list your full name, bad idea.

    Sounds like in one sense, FI is right. Its doesn't make sense to have a blow-out reception if you can't even really pay bills very well (I mean, eventually you'll run out of stuff to pawn). However, most importantly, you need to have a sit-down and figure out finances aside from the wedding. The fact that you want to get a second job to pay for the wedding on your own is kind of a red flag to me. Your worry about him resenting you, but you're on your way to resenting him for being a dead-weight financially, sounds like you don't exactly trust him when he told you what's been going on with his money, only you can say whether that distrust is well-founded, but you still need to figure that out before you get married.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_im-dealing-problem?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:d75437ad-2bb4-4b27-9bdc-8318bb9758efPost:8413eda7-6d07-4c21-a5af-ad5d739d07c6">Re: I'm Dealing With A Problem...</a>:
    [QUOTE]First, you shouldn't list your full name, bad idea. Sounds like in one sense, FI is right. Its doesn't make sense to have a blow-out reception if you can't even really pay bills very well (I mean, eventually you'll run out of stuff to pawn). However, most importantly, you need to have a sit-down and figure out finances aside from the wedding. The fact that you want to get a second job to pay for the wedding on your own is kind of a red flag to me. Your worry about him resenting you, but you're on your way to resenting him for being a dead-weight financially, sounds like you don't exactly trust him when he told you what's been going on with his money, only you can say whether that distrust is well-founded, but you still need to figure that out before you get married.
    Posted by sister2groom[/QUOTE]

    Ditto all of this. You need to take a look at his finances. He may have debt that you don't even know about. I see all kinds of red flags here.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_im-dealing-problem?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:d75437ad-2bb4-4b27-9bdc-8318bb9758efPost:bd8c0a0a-febe-4858-98f8-609fcfc41b58">I'm Dealing With A Problem...</a>:
    [QUOTE]I've only been engaged a few months and already feel like my FI and I have been married for twenty years. We argue all the time. Before we were engaged we were completely perfect and now I feel like we are falling apart. I feel like all my dreams are being crushed. When he proposed we had a plan for a beautiful, elegant fun wedding. Anytime i wanted to go see a venue he was on board and he was looking at magazines for suits and helped choose flowers and it seemed like a dream come true. Than we started talking about our finances and he said "Until we get out of debt, no talking about the wedding." Well, it's been three months since then and we still aren't out of debt. I used to have enough money to pay my bills, put hundreds in savings a month and go out and spend money on myself. And now, we are pawning off almost all of our possessions to cover our bills (which I don't understand why because I'm still making the same amount I always have, just now I have to buy all the groceries, we only take my car places so I'm always using gas, plus my other bills, plus my school payments and I pay for when we go out to eat or the movies or anywhere). He is a bartender and says he hasn't been making enough in tips. Whatever. This isn't what I'm venting about... moving on. He convinced me we don't need a big pretty wedding. Instead we agreed on only friends and family very simple ceremony. Which, I don't want, but I don't want him to resent me for making us save to have a beautiful wedding. Well now, we agreed on a simple wedding and today I went out shopping for a dress with my mom, and I came home and told him I think I found the perfect one and he said "You don't need a dress. We aren't having a fancy wedding. Just dress like you..." and it really upsets me. He still tells me he loves me and he wants to be my husband. I just think he would be happy if we just lived together for the rest of our lives (it's been two years so I don't think much is going to change). And I'm not a bridezilla. I just want something I'll be proud of 50 years later. And he just isn't helping at all. Any advice? Or words of encouragement? Or.. whatever. I just feel like I'm slowly losing everything I ever dreamed of. I even am busy applying for a second job (on top of another job and a full time grad school student) just so I can use the second job savings to go to a wedding so he won't have to worry about any of "his money" being put towards something stupid. I'm just in serious need of other women to talk to
    Posted by futurehuerta[/QUOTE]
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    I'm sorry you're going through this, but like the pps said  you two need to have a long talk.  If you can't even cover your bills without pawning stuff the last thing you should be thinking about is trying to pay for a wedding.  You're willing to take what is essentially a third job & all your FI says is he's not making as much money lately as usual!  Something isn't right here.
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    Oh dear! I'm really sorry that you're going through all of this.  It's really unfortunate that you're having so many money issues.  I know how hard it can be to get back on your feet. 

    It sounds like you need to take a look at your FI's finances.  Is there a reason why he isn't contributing more?  Maybe he is saving up for something himself, or maybe he has debt you are unaware of?

    As for feeling like you will regret not having a fancy wedding, totally untrue.  If anything, I think people regret spending as much as they did.  We had a relatively low budget wedding, and I wish we would have used the money for a down payment on a house.  Your wedding is just a day, but your marriage is a lifetime.

    Hope that helps!
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    Sounds like you both need to work out your money issues before you get married.  Starting out a marriage in debt is a very bad idea.
     
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    I think everyone else has said it, but your options are to basically take the small wedding (which, btw, you can definitely get a dress for) or to wait an extra year or two to have the wedding you want.  You can't always get your cake and eat it too, if that's what you're wanting.

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    My suggestion would be financial counseling (there are groups out there who do this for free) and couples counseling.  It seems y'all have some issues to work out before you even think about getting married.
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    redheadfsuredheadfsu member
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    edited November 2010
    Yeah, the wedding is not the issue here. The lack of communication about your finances is huge. How much debt does he have? Why did your spending/money change so drastically lately? Something is up. He could have been hiding how much in debt he was until now.

    Don't talk wedding, talk money. This is a huge red flag. You need to know what is finances are. If you plan on combining finances he can really mess your credit up. Figure this out now. Money problems cause divorce. Do not get married, until you have some real answers.

    Now this might not all be his fault either. Not saying it is. But, you really need to figure out the finances first. After the finances are explained properly, then pick a wedding budget that really works (then plan).

    Edit: Also, did he get you a ring? Are you sure he paid it off or is it on a payment plan type of thing. That could be some of this. ERing on credit is a bad idea, but he could have done it and that is where his money is going to now.  

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    I get that this is a challenge for you but the issue isnMt the wedding.  As PPs have said, you really need to clear up any financial problems you have before getting married.  When that is done end everyone is honest with each other, THEN you can talk about the wedding and you can start putting your foot down on what's also important for you. 

    I don't get why all of a sudden you can't pay off your bills?  If nothing has changed besides the amount of tips he's getting...I don't know it sounds very strange to me.  You really need to get to the bottom of this issue
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    If you have to pawn your belongings, you shouldn't be going out to eat or to the movies.  I think you both need to sit down and take a good look at your income and expenditures. 

    If you were saving hundreds a month before, do you have enough of a cushion to use savings to pay rent etc as opposed to pawning your things?  I'm not saying you should use up your savings because you should have some extra (at least 5K IMO) in case anything big happens.

    Generally, I agree that if you're in debt you shouldn't spend a lot of money on a wedding.  Student loans are fine, but you're paying of credit cards and struggling for everyday expenses, I think you should hold off.
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    Agreed. You need to go over your finances and make a budget for yourself.  Everyone has "debt".  As long as you own a Car or a house technically you have debt.  However if you have so much debt your pawning things off, your either living beyond your means or your not budgeting your money right.  FI and I sat down before we planned anything. I had a calender I wrote down his pay days and mine along with all the bills the date they were due. It helped us to be able to physically see where our money went and what we had left. 
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    You should most certainly not be pawning things off to pay your bills.  If your monthly expenses (rent, utilities, gas, basic food, other bills) exceed your monthly income, then you need to seriously reassess your finances.  Maybe it's time for extreme measures: take a second job, look for a roommate, maybe even move.  Our lease is up in April and we were considering the second option, but settled on the third and are relocating to an area with a much lower COL so we can knock out our debt faster.

    While I don't think that it's strictly necessary to combine finances (we haven't), I do think that you should be working out a more or less equal contribution to your shared expenses.  Sometimes DH or I take a bigger share temporarily (like when he got offered early settlement on one of his debts if he made a larger payment than usual, or when I went ahead and purchased the Christmas presents for everyone), but we always, always talk about it when one of us needs a little help that month.

    Look, financial problems are one of the leading causes of divorce, right up there with infidelity.  If you can't figure out how to talk about this and work it out NOW, you're sunk.  It doesn't matter how much you love each other, the odds are overwhelmingly against you.  Before you can consider any sort of wedding, even a JOP one, you need to be able to talk openly and honestly about money.  Get into counseling for it if necessary.

    As far as the wedding itself, you need to set a budget.  "Small and simple" is not a budget.  You need a total number you're willing to spend, which you can then itemize out (the Knot's budgeter is handy for that).  Then, as long as you're staying within the agreed-upon budget for each item, he can't really have cause to complain.
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    Sometimes I feel like people think that brides are delicate little flower princesses who get all dressed up and pretty for one special moment of their dreams, when really they're just normal people who just happen to be getting married. Things shouldn't have to be sugar-coated for grown-ass women. -mstar284
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_im-dealing-problem?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:d75437ad-2bb4-4b27-9bdc-8318bb9758efPost:ba3d86f0-304b-4031-850b-1b9113c9b01e">Re: I'm Dealing With A Problem...</a>:
    [QUOTE]Agreed. You need to go over your finances and make a budget for yourself.  Everyone has "debt".  <strong>As long as you own a Car or a house technically you have debt.</strong>  However if you have so much debt your pawning things off, your either living beyond your means or your not budgeting your money right.  FI and I sat down before we planned anything. I had a calender I wrote down his pay days and mine along with all the bills the date they were due. It helped us to be able to physically see where our money went and what we had left. 
    Posted by jessienjeremy[/QUOTE]

    How does OWNING a car mean someone has debt?  I happened to pay for my car in full when I bought it.  While people pay on morgages for years, plenty of people own them free and clear.  My parents have ZERO debt, despite the fact they they own 2 vehicles and a house.
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    I see several things here.

    1. Financial issues - get those resolved before even considering marriage
    2. Sounds like there is a control issue - counseling can help
    3. Resentments are already happening - over money, and style of wedding
    4. Communication issues - need to learn to discuss everything openly and without blame

    I would suggest that you put the wedding off until you: one figure out finances and who's contributing what; two find out why he feels he needs to control you; three learn to communicate with trust and love. 

    A wedding is one day - a marriage should be for a lifetime - but not with the issues I see present you get married now you are going to have a very rocky start.
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    It sounds to me like the financial aspect is not the biggest issue to you, seeing as you are clearly a hard worker and good with money yourself and willing to work your butt off to get what you want - however, I do agree with PPs that you need to have a long talk about finances with future hubbs...

    But it sounds to me like the bigger issue here is the way your relationship dynamic has changed - and trust me, I relate! BF and I arent engaged yet but know we are going to get married and we currently live together. Our relationship started out INCREDIBLY romantic, all kinds of sweep-you-off-your feet kind of stuff, and almost instantaneously upon moving in together things started to get....comfortable. Honestly, I think some men are just always going to be ok with the comfortable status quo, no matter how boring it may seem to us. Sounds to me like you are looking for a little more assurance about the strength of your relationship, rather than a big fancy party, and THAT is what you need to talk to him about. If you bring it up in terms of his shortcomings in providing this for you, he will only get more nasty and defensive. And it sounds like he is a genuinely nice guy that may be having a rocky time of it right now and taking some of his stress out on you.  But if you tell him you are hurt by the way he has been treating such an important occasion, and that all you really care about is expressing your love for each other in a real and romantic way. You may get better results! Best of luck to you, I am sorry you are going through this, but you are not alone!

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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_im-dealing-problem?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:d75437ad-2bb4-4b27-9bdc-8318bb9758efPost:331e92f6-803d-4d56-84e7-cb2eb10d7af0">Re: I'm Dealing With A Problem...</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I'm Dealing With A Problem... : How does OWNING a car mean someone has debt?  I happened to pay for my car in full when I bought it.  While people pay on morgages for years, plenty of people own them free and clear.  My parents have ZERO debt, despite the fact they they own 2 vehicles and a house.
    Posted by jenn.daniel[/QUOTE]

    Ummm, as far as the eyes of the law and the state are concerned as long as  you are making payments, the car is "yours". If you start defaulting on payments, then that's when respossession happens. You basically get full rights to the vehicle as long as you hold up your end of the bargain each month.

    And MOST people, jenn, make car payments and do not have the luxury of buying their car in full.
    .
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    The biggest issue I see is that you say you don't know why you can't make ends meet.  It also sounds like you are clearly taking on a bigger chunk of the finances, and don't feel that it is fair.

    It sounds to me like he is keeping something from you with money.  He doesn't need to account for every penny, but he should be totally honest with you.  
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_im-dealing-problem?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:d75437ad-2bb4-4b27-9bdc-8318bb9758efPost:e717f4db-dc22-44d1-9e26-1864ade64bd9">Re: I'm Dealing With A Problem...</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I'm Dealing With A Problem... : Ummm, as far as the eyes of the law and the state are concerned as long as  you are making payments, the car is "yours". If you start defaulting on payments, then that's when respossession happens. You basically get full rights to the vehicle as long as you hold up your end of the bargain each month. <strong>And MOST people, jenn, make car payments and do not have the luxury of buying their car in full.</strong> .
    Posted by Manwaithiel[/QUOTE]

    That's why I bought a 9 year old car.  :)  It's really not that hard to save for a year and a half, not unlike people saving for a wedding.  I bought what I could afford at the time.  Since I don't have payments, I can save to pay in cash for another used car when this one dies.  It's really not that difficult to do.
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    do you even know how much debt he has?  The fact that he says no wedding until you're out of debt seems troubling.  Also, in case you do go through with this wedding that, according to your ticker, is 4 months away, I would highly suggest not combining finances until you are completely aware of where the both of you stand. 

    Lastly, don't be a doormat.  Make sure some aspects of your dream wedding are there.  If you concede and have a small intimate wedding, get the cake you want, or a nice dress, or something like that.  A marriage is about compromises, don't be afraid to talk to FI about things that are important to you. 
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_im-dealing-problem?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:d75437ad-2bb4-4b27-9bdc-8318bb9758efPost:9ab55128-7ad8-4def-9cdc-2a40ef914072">Re: I'm Dealing With A Problem...</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I'm Dealing With A Problem... : That's why I bought a 9 year old car.  :)  It's really not that hard to save for a year and a half, not unlike people saving for a wedding.  I bought what I could afford at the time.  Since I don't have payments, I can save to pay in cash for another used car when this one dies.  It's really not that difficult to do.
    Posted by jenn.daniel[/QUOTE]

    Good for you. Just be aware of the fact that you can still own a car and be making payments on it. It's how the system works. I didn't say saving for a used car was difficult. But if you choose to buy new, and there are plenty of good reasons to do so, then most people cannot fork over $15000+ in cash. That's just common sense.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_im-dealing-problem?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:d75437ad-2bb4-4b27-9bdc-8318bb9758efPost:fce9553d-346c-4109-bd83-206fcab4882c">Re: I'm Dealing With A Problem...</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I'm Dealing With A Problem... : I don't think she ever said that making payments on a car meant you didn't own it. She just said that owning a car doesn't necessarily mean making payments on it, because the previous poster had said that anyone who buys a car goes into debt for it, or something to that effect. ETA:
    Posted by jamierobin[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps...
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    I agree with most of the posts on here. I understand where you are coming from with having a vision of a wedding that you have always wanted. Here is the thing though, at the end of the day the most important thing is the person you are marrying. It doesn't matter if you have a million flowers or none, the most beautiful reception hall or your parents basement, etc. 

    I truly think you both need to sit down, assess your finances, talk about your goals for the future and then broach the type of wedding you would like and how you can reach that goal.

    A wedding is an idea. Ideas and visions can change. I think once you become comfortable with that you will be happier planning a more budget friendly wedding.
    Good luck, try not to let this bother you and happy planning. There are tons of books and tips out there on how to plan on a dime.

    Also, not to be stupid but what the heck does MUD mean? I have seen this on several posts and I don't get it.
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    MUD - Made Up Drama
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_im-dealing-problem?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:d75437ad-2bb4-4b27-9bdc-8318bb9758efPost:fce9553d-346c-4109-bd83-206fcab4882c">Re: I'm Dealing With A Problem...</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I'm Dealing With A Problem... : I don't think she ever said that making payments on a car meant you didn't own it. She just said that owning a car doesn't necessarily mean making payments on it, because the previous poster had said that anyone who buys a car goes into debt for it, or something to that effect. ETA:
    Posted by jamierobin[/QUOTE]

    Thanks.  That was what I was trying to say.  I wasn't trying to say anything about owning (or not) if you're making payments b/c I have no idea.  Actually, I guess I know now since Manwait explained it.

    Where'd OP go?  Everyone's given good suggestions. 
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    Money related issues are the number one cause of divorce. Figure that stuff out before you even think about getting married!
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_im-dealing-problem?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:d75437ad-2bb4-4b27-9bdc-8318bb9758efPost:bd8c0a0a-febe-4858-98f8-609fcfc41b58">I'm Dealing With A Problem...</a>:
    [QUOTE]I'vThan we started talking about our finances and he said "Until we get out of debt, no talking about the wedding." Well, it's been three months since then and we still aren't out of debt. I used to have enough money to pay my bills, put hundreds in savings a month and go out and spend money on myself. And now, we are pawning off almost all of our possessions to cover our bills (which I don't understand why because I'm still making the same amount I always have, just now I have to buy all the groceries, we only take my car places so I'm always using gas, plus my other bills, plus my school payments and I pay for when we go out to eat or the movies or anywhere). He is a bartender and says he hasn't been making enough in tips. [/QUOTE]

    Wow.  Just exactly how many red flags is this guy waving here?  Why isn't he making enough in tips?  Why isn't he looking for a better paying job?  Exactly how much IS he bringing home in tips - is he counting it, depositing something in the bank or checking account, using it to pay bills in cash?  If not, WHERE is that money going?  Is he giving you money to put towards mutual bills?  How is he accounting for what he does bring home, and what is he doing to do a better job at this for BOTH of you?  And otherwise he's content to do this and allow you to support him?  You buy all your groceries, only use your car and gas, pay the bills, pay for all of your entertainment... what does HE pay for?  And how long after you're married does he quit/get fired and just can't seem to find another job, so then you'll be paying for everything anyway?  You really want a man who is okay with mooching off of you like that?  And what else is he hiding from you... because I think even you know he's hiding something.  How much debt?  And where?  From what? 

    Maybe I'm not one to talk so much, as my FI got laid off this past spring.  But he's spent the summer busting his ass mowing yards for his dad in 100 degree weather with a seriously injured shoulder, so he can bring home a paycheck and keep a roof over his son's head, at the same time as papering the city with his resume.  We've put off the wedding until he's working again.  And he's TRYING.  What is yours trying to do for you?

    Girl, you've got a problem.  And it ain't your wedding. 
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