Should parents force/encourage their children to get married in a Catholic Church?

lalaith50 · November 2011

We all know it happens sooo often...

The parents are practicing Catholics, but the kid doesn't really find it applicable, so she stops going to Mass. Then, when she wants to get married, she says she "has to" get married in a Catholic church, either due to financial reasons (her parents won't pay for the wedding,) or more personal (her parents won't even come if it's not in a church.)

Is this a good thing?

It seems to me to not be good...

They might even feel forced to have a Mass, and the couple and their friends are then going to be receiving communion (most likely not being properly disposed/prepared...)

They probably don't understand the seriousness of a Catholic wedding, and if they do get divorced, remarried then later have a re-conversion to the Catholic faith, they are going to run into BIG trouble.

If they didn't have a Catholic wedding, then when/if they ever decide that they really want to be Catholic, it would be a lot easier to just get a convalidation!

But I do understand the parents view that if their kids don't get married in the Catholic Church, that their marriage *won't* be valid. (Well, chances are, if they're anything like 95% of non-church-going Americans, they were already living together prior to the wedding, so....)

But are there spiritual benefits? The couple would obviously receive the Sacrament of Marriage (if they're both baptized,) and doesn't this actually give spiritual benefits?

But what about things like promising to raise their kids Catholic, which they probably have no intention of doing? (Or even being open to life!)

Thoughts?

Riss91 · November 2011

I think you have to try your best to raise your children Catholic, to ensure you've given them the best chance at learning and knowing the Truth. If they begin to doubt the faith, you should do whatever you can to teach them who/what/when/where/why, help them understand why you believe so strongly in it.

If, after doing whatever you can (including utilizing others), they do not believe in the Church's teachings, and you feel they have a firm point of view, I think it is inappropriate to blackmail them or guilt-trip them into having a Catholic wedding. I think it is disgraceful when parents force their children to do this. They need to believe in what they are promising. It's harmful to our faith to support "empty" ceremonies in this way.

Typically, the parents that I see doing this, haven't put much effort into instructing their children in the faith, or have done so in an unproductive or damaging way that deters their children from the Church.

shawna127 · November 2011

I agree with you lalaith, Youshould not force your children to get married in the church. Chances are if they don't want to get married in the catholic church then they don't understand the importance of the sacrament. Also, by forcing it you are probably just pushing your children further away from the church and from yourself.

professorscience · November 2011

I imagine this is part of the reason churches require such a long "waiting period" before a couple can marry. I know that at our parish, we really got to know everyone who participated in putting our ceremony together, and I think any of them would have figured out if either of us had reservations about what we were doing.

tmeyer621 · November 2011

I defiantly agree you should never "force" your children to get married in the Church, but I can certainly understand or even relate to parents that feel strongly about it. FI and I have had this discussion and I know I would be terribly upset if our children didn't get married in the Catholic Church. Like I failed as a parent or something. I would be much more ok with them getting married in a Christian Church, even if it isn't Catholic. FI says he will support our children no matter where they choose to get married. It's their choice. Pry good he's so level headed, he'll probably keep me in check if we ever run into that situation.

lalaith50 · November 2011

[QUOTE]Typically, the parents that I see doing this, haven't put much effort into instructing their children in the faith, or have done so in an unproductive or damaging way that deters their children from the Church.
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]
Good point... It's almost like the extent of the parent's religion is "go to church on Sundays, and get married in the church." No wonder they failed their children in their upbringing!<div>
</div><div>But, I'm not saying we should judge any parents for not having children who aren't Catholic! in fact, I recently came across this very touching blog post, about a homeschooling mother who wonders what she did wrong</div><div><a href="http://www.elizabethfoss.com/reallearning/2011/11/what-im-never-going-to-tell-you.html">http://www.elizabethfoss.com/reallearning/2011/11/what-im-never-going-to-tell-you.html</a></div><div>which is a whole discussion in itself!</div>

Riss91 · November 2011

absolutely - plenty of people can try their best and have their children walk away from the Church. That is the glory of free will. At some point, the child has to be responsible for their own soul.

ElisabethJoanne · November 2011

I'm not sure I disagree with anything being said, but the OP's objections seem easily counter-acted to me. The way to make sure the couple understands the seriousness of the Sacrament of Marriage is with proper marriage prep. The way to address people not properly receiving Communion is addressing it in the marriage prep, the ceremony programs/bulletins/orders of service, and by the celebrant from the lecturn.

I've reviewed some of the pre-Cana, etc., materials, and they seem to address Who is Christ? before they address What is marriage? - kind of a mini general catechesis before the specifically marriage-related stuff. So I think the Church does, or at least can, address bigger issues in a couple's practice of their Faith through the marriage preparation process.

One more note on Communion: I was at a Requiem Mass Saturday. There actually wasn't anything printed or said about who and how to receive Communion, and yet about half those in attendance, including the decedent's entire family, did not receive. So I think often people "get it" more than we might think.

Resa77 · November 2011

I know some people who believe it's a sin to attend the wedding of a Catholic marrying outside the Church. My parents, for instance, didn't go to my brother's JOP wedding. I get the idea of not wanting to imply your approval by attending, but at the same time, I don't think anyone will say "hmmm, I'm not going to get married now, because so-and-so doesn't approve and therefore isn't coming to the wedding." And therefore I see no point in boycotting a wedding. Especially my own child.

Riss91 · November 2011

I can understand how someone might feel like attending a wedding would be showing approval of their child leaving the Church. But I don't think it has to be that way. If I did everything I could to raise my child in the Church, they would know how important that was (at least to me and my husband). If they were getting married outside of the Church, I would likely have already had a few discussions with them about the faith, because it's likely the decision to leave the Church happened well before the wedding day. If, after thoroughly discussing it, my child felt strongly about leaving the Church, I would express my concern, ask them to continue to question and dig deeper and then I'd have to let them do what they are going to do. And I would absolutely be at their wedding.

I'd have a much harder time if my child refused to give up an "outdoor" wedding, yet planned to remain in the Church and continue received sacraments like communion.

lisa89760 · November 2011

I honestly struggled before getting engaged about getting married in the church/having communion at my wedding mass. When I casually said something to my mom about it, she started crying. When my husband and I got engaged we decided that we wanted to have a wedding in the church with my uncle marrying because. It was obviously our decision but our parents and familes played a role in that decision. Not only was it important to us, but we also knew how important it was to our parents.

On a side note, we both were in a wedding that was kinda like this. The groom wasn't catholic but the bride's mom told her she wouldn't go to the wedding if it wasn't in a catholic church. On top of that, they got married during lent and had their rehersal dinner on a Friday at a bbq restaurant that only served meat! ummm at least pretend and have fish? Luckily I could order a fish plate seperately. I mean I'm all for accomodating the non-catholics but at least off something for the catholics, you are getting married in a catholic church!

agapecarrie · November 2011

I think its a bigger question than one about parents/kids. I don't envy priests who see problems with the couples they are counseling, but don't want to discourage them from marrying in the church. While I hope everyone that marries in the church actually believes in what they are doing, I'm uneasy about discouraging people from marrying in the church who are iffy.....the reason? well... grace.

I have a friend who used to be a youth minister. He and his wife, when they were engaged, were living and sleeping together. The priest talked to him about it-- but still married them. Later on he went on a lifeteen training conference as a youth minister and had a full out conversion to believe 100% of the church teachings like NFP, chastity, etc. He and his wife went on to have some more kids and are very faithful. He told me that if their priest had refused to marry them, they would have gone to a protestant church at that earlier time. Who knows what would have happened? Possible he never would have been a y.minister and had a conversion. Instead though, they had the grace from the sacrament to be open to the conversion.

Priests have a tough job.

Riss91 · November 2011

In Response to Re: Should parents force/encourage their children to get married in a Catholic Church?:
[QUOTE While I hope everyone that marries in the church actually believes in what they are doing, I'm uneasy about discouraging people from marrying in the church who are iffy.....the reason? well... grace.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

I agree - there's a difference between being iffy/unsure of some things and completely a non-believer. I wouldn't encourage someone who was still questioning NOT to be married in the Church.

And priests have a really tough job.

lmeade62 · November 2011

I think the original question makes a major part of the point: Encourage, yes. Force, no.

I was raised Methodist, and my parents MADE us go to church, Sunday school, confirmation class...all of it. As a result, with some exceptions, I saw church as a chore, something to be endured. When I went to college, and later when I was on my own, I couldn't skip out of church fast enough.

HOWEVER...there were at least a couple of times in my teens, early twenties, and thirties, that I went back to church. Each time, it had meaning for me...though never to the extent that the Catholic church has for me now, and had the minute I went to my first Mass.

There are so many elements of Catholicism that I already believed, because I had learned about it from childhood. I've never doubted that Jesus was the son of God - in fact, when I went through a brief "spiritual but not religious" phase, I tried to convince myself that he was just a good man and a great teacher, and I just never could buy it. I've always believed the bread and wine were the Body and Blood of Christ (and was somewhat startled to find out that some Protestants don't believe that??). I've always believed in God, though my relationship with Him has been strained from time to time. Some of the rituals were new to me - like going to Mass weekly, and sometimes during the week - and there were some habitual behaviors I had to change (before the Church, I used to swear a LOT, and use the Lord's name in vain).

But I think the childhood introduction to Christianity, and the fact that it was a regular part of my growing up, are what prepared me for the Church. So I think it is important to make Church a regular part of a child's upbringing. There comes a point where you have no control as a parent over whether they go or not, or follow the Church's teachings, but I truly believe that if you instill that foundation, children will eventually find their way back to those values.

That being said, I think it would be really, really tough if, on DH in particular, if SS decided not to get married in the Church. Maybe you just have to express your concern or your disagreement, and encourage them to explore marrying in the Church, but still assure them that you love them and want them to have a sacred marriage. Maybe then, even though they don't get married in the Church then, they'll come back to it later.

Really tough question. Very thought-provoking.

Linda

bibliophile2010 · November 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_should-parents-forceencourage-their-children-married-catholic-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:05dcc963-3223-4def-8ef1-d23bca547c48Post:ae0b01a5-b737-4a99-9a59-81fadd20d8a9">Re: Should parents force/encourage their children to get married in a Catholic Church?</a>:
[QUOTE] That being said, I think it would be really, really tough if, on DH in particular, if SS decided not to get married in the Church. Maybe you just have to express your concern or your disagreement, and encourage them to explore marrying in the Church, but still assure them that you love them and want them to have a sacred marriage. Maybe then, even though they don't get married in the Church then, they'll come back to it later. Really tough question. Very thought-provoking. Linda
Posted by lmeade62[/QUOTE]

I agree with almost all of your post, but this part in particular. I think that it is appropriate to have an honest, loving conversation with the child. Tell them about WHY you want them to be married in the church without hystrionics/bribes/threats. People don't respond to that. Encourage them to think about it and, if they are so inclined at that point, pray about it.

In terms of raising kids to practice the faith, I think about it a lot. I think that it is important to not just make kids go to mass on Sundays and go to all the RE classes and stuff, but to show that faith is a real part of your life, too. Let them know that you pray, that you read scripture, etc. That example, I think, is just as important. When they are out of the house, they will do whatever they want anyway.

My MIL was of the drag the boys to church every Sunday type. She was involved in stuff with the parish. My H never had a problem with it and continued to attend mass weekly when he moved out. My BIL, on the other hand, was done the second he left home. He would go on rare occasion when he was home for Christmas or whatnot. The first year H and I were dating, BIL was home for Christmas, so got dragged to Midnight Mass with the rest of us. Fr. said something that night that clicked with him and he had a major conversion experience. He is now one of the most passionate Catholics I know. I cannot help but believe that his upbringing helped make sure that his conversion was possible.

Calypso1977 · November 2011

i think the parents who force it are more often than not, the parents who they tehmselves dont practice/live the faith!

i'm sorry, but if you yourself are not living the catholic life, and attending mass regularly, then how can you force your kid to marry in a church? seems to me you falied as a parent years before if your child has already fallen away. getting them to marry in the church is not going make up for what they've already lost (althoguh one could argue that the sacrament might help them consider returning). parents who have not led by example should not question or wonder why their child stops going.

mica178 · November 2011

Encourage, yes. Force, no.

Willingness is part of the marriage vows. I personally think when the priest is asking if the couple is there by free will, he's not just referring to the marital union but also the Sacrament as defined by the Catholic church. If neither of the couple really wants to marry in the church, is that a marriage that is truly by free will? What other issues are hiding under the surface?

blush64 · November 2011

I don't think anyone should force their children to marry in the church. (any church)

The parents do have the right not to pay if it's outside the church and hopefully adults who plan to marry will not make their decision depending on money from mom and/or dad.

professorscience · December 2011

Per lala's ticker, she is married.

Also, one of the vows a couple agrees to in their wedding ceremony, whether with a mass or without, is:

"Will you accept children lovingly from God, and bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?"

While it's all up to interpretation, that basically says: "Will you raise your children Catholic?" You're right that all you can do is try your best, but your best means teaching them the ways of the church.

lkirby85 · December 2011

To address the question directly, I think encouraging is what you have to do as a parent, but forcing is not the right thing to do at all, it is not the Catholic thing to do as far as I understand. A convalidation is not a simple process, neither is a marriage for that matter and that is why the process is so long and detailed when it comes to getting married in the Catholic Church. I think even mentioning divorce or remarriage is an indication of unpreparedness and one of the issues that the Catholic Church addresses thoroughly. It should not only be a deterrent of having a Catholic wedding but of having any wedding at all. If the issue is not the Catholic faith but that the couple feels restricted, there are many situations that, with the permission of the priest and bishop, can be accommodated, including outdoor weddings, priests from another denomination performing part of the ceremony. It of course all depends on the diocese you are a part of.

lalaith50 I wonder if this is an issue you are passionate about or if it is an issue you are experiencing. I am also from metro-Detroit and we have had thus far, an incredible experience at Saint Ambrose in Grosse Pointe Woods. If you are dealing with this issue yourself I would highly recommend talking to someone in the Church about how you feel. If you are Catholic, go to your church or your fiancé's if he is. If not find a church you are comfortable with, your parents', his parents' or just one where you like the atmosphere.

I am not Catholic and my fiancé has not been close with his church after the many changes that occurred there. We did our research and found Saint Ambrose and I have been very impressed by the pastoral minister there and Father Tim. I already have committed to a Catholic ceremony but I think that even if you have not and are only considering it, it would be beneficial to talk to someone that can properly advise you about the Church's practices.

I was initially apprehensive because of rumors I had heard from non-Catholic Christians about Catholic weddings. It turns out they don't make you promise to raise your children Catholic, they make you promise that you will try your best to raise them as such and basically promise to be responsible and moral parents. You also don't have to receive the Eucharist at your ceremony, at least not per the Arch Diocese of Detroit. In fact, Father Tim will not allow us to have it during our ceremony since I am a non-Catholic because he believes a wedding is supposed to emphasize our union and he does not like to highlight our differences by having only my fiancé and the other Catholics attending receive it.

There are so many other things we have discussed with the pastoral minister that have not only made me comfortable with a Catholic ceremony but actually excited that I have made this choice, and we have only had two meetings.

doctabroccoli · December 2011

Lkirby -
Lalaith is in fact married, and she is Catholic. Regardless, I am very glad you have had a good experience, even as a non-Catholic. And apparently the board is kickin' it Pacific Standard Time tonight. That's a new one. Usually when we break the space-time continuum it's in Central Time

.

professorscience · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_should-parents-forceencourage-their-children-married-catholic-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:05dcc963-3223-4def-8ef1-d23bca547c48Post:c1b9ae10-0bee-4753-8a44-19c8a8aa865b">Re: Should parents force/encourage their children to get married in a Catholic Church?</a>:
[QUOTE]Lkirby - Lalaith is in fact married, and she is Catholic. Regardless, I am very glad you have had a good experience, even as a non-Catholic. <strong> And apparently the board is kickin' it Pacific Standard Time tonight. That's a new one. Usually when we break the space-time continuum it's in Central Time :).
</strong>Posted by doctabroccoli[/QUOTE]

Hahaha. I'm fairly certain a few of my posts have magically appeared on random boards where they were not intended.

lalaith50 · December 2011

oops, I guess I should update my profile since I'm no longer in Michigan! :-o

:-)

ETA: (hmmm... I can't seem to figure out how to change that...anyone know?)

IAmLymelady · December 2011

I think it's as wrong as encouraging someone who doesn't believe in transubstantiation to take Communion. I think the bigger thing is to encourage someone to believe in Catholicism first; if you don't believe marriage is a sacrament, taking part in it to please your family is partially a lie.

I wish I had thought of it in those terms when I was 19 and my family told me I would be Catholic again some day (which I am) so I should get married in the Church. It made sense, my parents were paying for my wedding, and I didn't want to make them unhappy. I loved them dearly and didn't voice any objections. That is all on me; of course they didn't realize that they were putting pressure on me to do something that wasn't right for me. Even I didn't really realize it, because I didn't truly understand the significance of the sacrament. My pre-cana was rushed and there was no real detail involved in it, but even if it hadn't been, I think I would have gone in thinking "but it will make my family happy, and I'm sure I'll agree with this in a few years."

My husband was not a nice man, as it turned out. He had no intention of actually raising our children Catholic, and later on I was forbidden from having children. I left him. I'm at a point where I truly appreciate what the sacrament of marriage means and I can't possibly put in words how wrenching it is that at this moment, I officially have that with someone who was horrible and can never have that with the man who loves me as deeply as I love him, who helps me grow in my faith, and who would make a fantastic father. I'm in the process of applying for an annulment, but there is no telling if it will go through. It's not for me to judge that.

If I had understood marriage for the sacrament that it is, and not as an inevitability that would make my family happy, I would have never gotten married in the Catholic Church. I probably wouldn't have gotten married at all (I did go into it thinking marriage is forever and divorce was not an option, and if I had realized I wasn't ready to get married in the Church I would've figured out that I wasn't ready for the whole shabang). I would never tell my parents this because it would kill them, and it's not their faults, it's mine. I was an adult and made a bad choice in the face of certain pressures because I was weak. I just think it's a difficult pressure to face and that people should get married in the Church because they are Catholic and not because they were raised Catholic.

Calypso1977 · December 2011

He had no intention of actually raising our children Catholic, and later on I was forbidden from having children.

if this is true, that would be considered an impediment and you should be able to get an annulment. good luck! i hope it all works out.

IAmLymelady · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_should-parents-forceencourage-their-children-married-catholic-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:05dcc963-3223-4def-8ef1-d23bca547c48Post:9e331519-af6e-457e-87e5-def4c3cbeeca">Re: Should parents force/encourage their children to get married in a Catholic Church?</a>:
[QUOTE] if this is true, that would be considered an impediment and you should be able to get an annulment. good luck! i hope it all works out.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]
Thank you! I hope so too.

professorscience · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_should-parents-forceencourage-their-children-married-catholic-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:05dcc963-3223-4def-8ef1-d23bca547c48Post:709a972a-405d-4db2-bdcc-0b3b422b27b9">Re: Should parents force/encourage their children to get married in a Catholic Church?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Should parents force/encourage their children to get married in a Catholic Church? : Thank you! I hope so too.
Posted by IAmLymelady[/QUOTE]

<div>That was my SIL's grounds for annullment, actually.</div>

Should parents force/encourage their children to get married in a Catholic Church?

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