Condom question

e_jakiela · February 2010

Ok, I know it will probably stirr a debate, but can someone tell me what the Catholic Church really thinks about the condoms?

I used to have really bad periods when I was about 21 and used the pill. But it messed up my liver and I put it away about 7 years ago. Since then I have always been using condoms. Fi actually likes using them because he is stressed about having children too early. We have been discussing NFP because we want to prepare for our Engaged Encounter class, and have mixed feelings. I think it would be great to be able not to use condoms because they stink, and I feel that it would just all feel better. But, we just cannot afford having children in at least the next two years. On the other hand, we both have pretty high libidos and in our understanding we would have to give up sex on my fertile days...

So is it really bad to use condoms on those days? If you were to rank how you, as a Catholic, feel about the following, what would your ranks be (1 being the best and 3 worst) for the following: Condoms, Pill, UDIs? (I am not including NFP, because I expect as Catholics we would all put this as #1).

Thank you,

meltoine · February 2010

The Church puts condoms in the same category as all other forms of non-natural BC. For my money they are even worse. Here's why:

According to the Church, sex has two purposes; unity and procreation. The opposition to condoms as an impediment to procreation is fairly self-explanatory. All sex acts must remain open to the genesis of new life. NFP is acceptable because God created women to be infertile at certain times, so engaging in sex during those times when you are TTA for a good reason is in keeping with His natural design. To use condoms and continue to have sex when you are TTA is disrespectful of His plan for human sexuality.

Additionally, condoms (unlike BCP, IUD, Depo, etc) also impede the unitive function of sex. When a couple chooses to use condoms they are, in effect, saying to one another, "I want to have sex with you, but I don't want to have your children (at least right now) so I'm going to put a physical barrier between our bodies during this most intimate act that is supposed to bring us closer together."

As for rating, I put condoms at a 3, the Pill and IUDs (which is what I assume you meant by UDI) both at a 2.9.

I think it's great that you are looking into NFP in preparation for your marriage. I know tons of people who have been using it for years with no surprises. One of my mentors used it from the time she got married until menopause (about 35 years) with no surprises.

As far as having a high libido and having to abstain - it's not as hard as you'd think. If you chart all three signs (cervical fluid, temperature, and cervix position) your no-sex days could be as few as 4. 87% of couples must abstain for 9 days or less. And honestly, the short period of abstinence each month makes it seem like you get a honeymoon every few weeks!

Also FWIW, my undergraduate thesis was on NFP. I interviewed 20+ married couples who had been using NFP for at least a year (including the lady I mentioned earlier who used it for 35) and couples who were using other forms of BC, and the NFP folks actually had sex more often than the BC folks.

meltoine · February 2010

Also, check out Janet Smith's lecture, Contraception, Why Not? I recommend trying to get your hands on an audio copy (most parishes have a few floating around) but if you can't, you can read the transcript here:

clicky me!

GulfCoaster · February 2010

I have nothing to add to Meltoine's explanation of Church teaching. She explained it pretty well.

To me, using a condom feels so wrong -- you're literally putting a barrier between yourself and your spouse. We've been using NFP for 40+ cycles TTA with no surprises. Once you have a few charts' worth of experience, it becomes easier to see patterns of your own body. There are several rules to interpret the ending of Phase I (the initial infertile period), and which rule you use will depend on your body. For example, the Couple to Couple League's 21-day rule, the most conservative rule for determining the end of Phase 1, would end Phase 1 for me at CD6. But I know my own body and charts, and I know that I've never ovulated prior to CD18, so a day-based method in this case would be far too conservative (following this rule would lead to 13 days of abstinence, several of which are unnecessary). So we rely on other rules that more accurately reflect my fertility day-to-day, and have had no surprises yet.

My Phase 2 (fertile phase) is usually only 8 days long, occasionally 9. Honestly, that's not that long -- it's just over one week. Plenty of couples abstain for 8 or 9 days or much longer for reasons unrelated to NFP: illness, injury, recent birth of a child, crazy work schedules, etc. So it's definitely possible to abstain for 8 days because it's the fertile period. Are there months when abstinence during the fertile period feels especially difficult? Yes. But I would much rather wait a couple more days to have great sex than have sex with a condom.

caitriona87 · February 2010

Ditto PP's on pretty much everything, with one other consideration to add.

NFP helps you sort out which days it is possible for you to conceive and which days it would not be possible. On those fertile days when conception is most likely, abstaining is going to give you complete assurance, whereas with a condom you're still taking that 2-10% risk of failure. Besides the religious/moral reasons, personal distaste, & (as PP mentioned) a barrier between you & your spouse during what is supposed to be your most intimate time together, I simply wouldn't trust a condom anywhere near as much as I trust NFP.

e_jakiela · February 2010

Thank you meltoine and others. Meltoine, thank you for being so kind in your response... I often heard people just get judgemental. It's great to hear that there are so many girls on here who use NFP and are successfully avoiding pregnancy at the time when they are not ready for it...

It's a weird feeling when you said that having sex with a condom is like saying "I don't want to have your kids"... I never thought I would agree with that, but it is true... especially when you do it with someone who you do not love or want to marry. I am so happy in my relationship with FI, I really never thought I would get to the point where I do want to have his kids, and I would be probably OK if it happened anytime, but I really want to be ready for them more than for myself. I believe children should be born to the homes that are ready for them, where they have a loving family and opportunities open. I think starting with NFP would help me prepare in a way too. I want to be as chemical free as I can.

Again, thank you ladies. I really am happy to hear there are so many girls doing NFP and liking it. It really motivates me more and more to get on it as well.

Riss91 · February 2010

I just wanted to add that abstaining during your fertile time doesn't mean you can't do anything at all... ;-)

Also - while some people may only need to abstain for 4 days, I find that we abstain for more like 10 days because we want to be very careful and we're still new to the charting game. Perhaps once we're more confident with charting, we'll be able to decrease down from 10 to 6 or 7...

Theresa626 · February 2010

For me:
1. condoms
2. pill
3. IUD

But i'm not having sex yet so my opinion isn't really that valid I guess. That said, I would never ever get an IUD. Do you know what that is? I think the Catholic Church would be more in favor of condoms than IUDs even though they disaprove of condoms.

I am going to be getting on the pill but I put it as second because I'm worried about whether I'll remember to take it every day. Honestly, I might use both condoms and the pill.

Also, I don't plan on ever using NFP. I know there are people on here that use it so you might want to ask their experiences.

As far as your question goes..... if you're using NFP because of your catholic beliefs, I have no idea why on earth you would use condoms during those fertile days as the point of NFP is to not use condoms.

But, honestly, you do what is right for you. You probably don't agree with the churches teachings on every single thing especially since you're already having sex.. Most people don't agree with every single thing the church teaches. You decide what you feel is best for you and what you ultimately believe in and do that.

If you want to use NFP so you don't have to use condoms most of the time then go ahead and do so. But, don't do it and say it's because of your catholic beliefs because the church would not want you to use NFP and condoms.

Theresa626 · February 2010

I just realized that my answer may have come off as judgemental and I soo did not mean it to be that way. I definitely don't judge you so please don't think that.

e_jakiela · February 2010

Theresa, no worries, I am not offernded and I don't think you were judgmental. I was thinking about using condoms on fertile days to make extra sure I don't get pregnant. I was not sure how well the NFP works.

Calypso1977 · February 2010

Fertility Awareness Method (FAM) allows for the use of condoms during your fertile time. NFP does not allow for use of condoms at all. That said, IMO, if you are TTA its stupid to use condoms when you know for a fact you are fertile, because if for some reason the condom broke or had some other malfunction, you'd have a very good chance of getting pregnant.

I was on the Pill for 10+ years. I have practiced NFP now for 10 months (started 2 months after the wedding after much thought and contemplation). My only regret is that i wish i had started it years ago. It is so easy, and i am not worried at all abotu getting pregnant. In fact, when the time comes to try to get pregant, i'm extremely hopeful that the method will allow me to get pregnant relatively quickly, since i know exactly when to have sex.

Id say in general, there's only about 10 days per month that we have to abstain. its really not that big a deal, at least for us. We follow teh 'when in doubt, don't' rule, meaning that if i have any doubt about whether i'd get pregant, we play it safe adn dont have sex. in reality, the number of days we need to abstain is probably less. i have chosen to be overcautious both becuase i bleieve i'm still flushing the hormone from my system AND we just really cannot get pregnant right now.

agapecarrie · February 2010

Condoms have a misleading effective rate because they don't take into account that the woman can't get pregnant 2/3 of the month. It gets credit for "preventing" pregnancy when it actually didn't do anything at all. It is not an effective form of preventing pregnancy.

Also, I have read that those who use NFP have more sex than those that use Artificial birth control.

lovelyladybabydoll148 · February 2010

Wow, some of you make NFP sound so easy! I guess I have more reading to do, but with my honeymoon coming up, I'm very concerned and am going on a'hope and a prayer' that I don't get pregnant. Thanks for your input-it's helped me to reevaluate my situation. Great question e_jakiela!

ocgirl310 · February 2010

My fiance and I are waiting to have sex till we get married, but I will then be on birth control (even though I am a devoted Catholic) because we do not feel prepared to have children right now. I would consider NFP, but it doesn't work (maybe that is just GOD though! hehe). There is a decreased risk of pregnancy, but it is still a chance we are not willing to take right now! My cousin and her husband waited to have sex before they were married and then practiced NFP, she was 4 months pregnant on their one year anniversary. That scared the you know what out of me. My advice, if you really are not prepared to have children, use condoms or birth control all the time. I don't see how it can't be any worse in the eyes of the church than having sex before marriage.

ocgirl310 · February 2010

Maybe I am a little biased though, since my cousin did have a baby while practicing NFP. I love her little girl though, I don't want anyone to think that I think she is a "mistake". As we all know, any pregnancy is wanted. Just wanted to clear that up:)

banana468 · February 2010

I don't know that you can say it's "worse" than having premarital sex but it's just as against Church teaching.

If practiced correctly, NFP is just as effective as birth control. Plus, long term use of birth control can result in physiological health effects for the woman - not the case with NFP.

I was a BC user for many years, but on some levels, I really wish I wasn't.

ocgirl310 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_condom-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:93b7bcf3-f7e4-450f-b451-bfcfd499e49bPost:91f8c77a-e409-410a-85a4-05b3954ebd26">Re: Condom question</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't know that you can say it's "worse" than having premarital sex but it's just as against Church teaching. If practiced correctly, NFP is just as effective as birth control. Plus, long term use of birth control can result in physiological health effects for the woman - not the case with NFP. I was a BC user for many years, but on some levels, I really wish I wasn't.
Posted by banana468[/QUOTE]

I am just wondering why birth control and condoms are okay for premarital sex but not when your married.
I didn't know that it was just as effective as birth control though, and In that case, I am going to use bc and condoms and NFP. I love kids but I want to enjoy being married first for a long time first! :)

boogerbearoriginal · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_condom-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:93b7bcf3-f7e4-450f-b451-bfcfd499e49bPost:832e439d-2423-4989-b0df-d658d538af66">Re: Condom question</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Condom question :<strong> I am just wondering why birth control and condoms are okay for premarital sex but not when your married.</strong> I didn't know that it was just as effective as birth control though, and In that case, I am going to use bc and condoms and NFP. I love kids but I want to enjoy being married first for a long time first! :)
Posted by ocgirl310[/QUOTE]

Who said bc/condoms are ok for premarital sex?

The efficacy of anything is largely based on its proper use. NFP is effective when used properly because the woman is only fertile at a certain point of the month. If you have sex then, you will risk pregnancy. If you abstain then you won't get pregnant. I've heard of people using NFP for years to both prevent and achieve pregnancy and have been 100% successful.

If you only follow the NFP rules sometimes you will probably get pregnant, likewise, if you only use condoms sometimes or forget to take your pill sometimes you're running the same risk.

ocgirl310 · February 2010

"Since then I have always been using condoms. Fi actually likes using them because he is stressed about having children too early."
In the original post.

Calypso1977 · February 2010

ocgirl, H and i dont want a child any time soon for a variety of reasons. we use NFP and i'm not worried in the least about getting pregnant. having sex when your fertile means you have a good chance of getting pregnant. having sex when you are not fertile means you cannot get pregnant.

those that get pregnant while practicing NFP generally are not strict about following the rules and take chances. we follow a "when in doubt, dont" and always err on teh side of abstaining if my signs arent clear.

agapecarrie · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_condom-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:93b7bcf3-f7e4-450f-b451-bfcfd499e49bPost:db91c60d-559c-4257-8370-c6a3a0da8ec3">Re: Condom question</a>:
[QUOTE] those that get pregnant while practicing NFP generally are not strict about following the rules and take chances. we follow a "when in doubt, dont" and always err on teh side of abstaining if my signs arent clear.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

Just a little semantics difference, but important to note: those that aren't following the rules and take chances are NOT using NFP then to avoid pregnancy. It isn't fair (I'm not intending to address you particularly here, Calypso) for people to say they are using NFP and got pregnant, when in reality, they had abandoned the method by going against it. I'm beginning to learn how to teach creighton and I've seen SOOOO many charts with people that say they were avoiding pregnancy, but used at least one if not several more days that were considered fertile.

If a woman isn't fertile, or near fertility, she won't get pregnant.

If she is charting and the signs don't match up to fertility then there is a medical issue that needs to be addressed. This is why charting long before marriage is recommended. I started 8 years ago for my health. My charts helped diagnose 4 different medical issues that would never have been found without charting. The causes of those were addressed, examined, and fixed.

On the VERY rare occurance that a woman does not show signs of ovulation and gets pregnant, it is a miracle. This is what "open to life" means in marriage. Addressing each and every month what the reasons are for avoiding children, and if they are big enough reasons to avoid yet another month. Constant communication, every month has a courtship/honeymoon phase.

ocgirl310 · February 2010

Calypso- ok so u say its %100 effective at preventing pregnancy, I guess I shouldn't have suggested it wasn't.
The only thing I am trying to say is that the original poster wanted to know if condoms were ok to use in the eyes of the Catholic Church. My response is, if it is working ok for her and her fiance while they are having premarital sex, than why is it not ok for them when they get married?
I understand that NFP is the only way to prevent pregnancy that is condoned by the Church, but I know (and op porbably does too) that premaritalsex is definitely not condoned with or without condoms. I am just trying to understand the logic in the question.

boogerbearoriginal · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_condom-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:93b7bcf3-f7e4-450f-b451-bfcfd499e49bPost:95ea46d1-82ea-4e85-a749-c20626b970de">Re: Condom question</a>:
[QUOTE]"Since then I have always been using condoms. Fi actually likes using them because he is stressed about having children too early." In the original post.
Posted by ocgirl310[/QUOTE]

I don't think she's saying its ok - just that's their current method. She goes on to say she doens't like them for physical reasons so I think the point of her post is to find an acceptable method of birth control that also is in keeping with the church's teachings. And if she were to go against the NFP method, what she should chose.

IMO the OP is simply looking for more information.

Jay+Marissa · February 2010

I think everything that needs to be said to answer the OP's question has already been written, but I will add this about the effectiveness of NFP

My parents have practiced NFP/ecological breastfeeding exclusively all 23 years of their marriage. The first 8 years my mother told me they were very lax: they wanted to have a large family and start quickly. The first four of us were all born almost exactly 18 months apart.

After #4, my dad lost his job and my mom had her hands full, so they decided against having any more kids at that point. 4 years later, they were in a comfortable position, and decided to have another. They were able to conceive in exactly the MONTH they wanted to (my mom had to have major dental work around that time and couldn't be pregnant during it). She was 35 then. Since then, no more kiddos

If that isn't effective, I don't know what is.

Calypso1977 · February 2010

They were able to conceive in exactly the MONTH they wanted to

i love hearing this, as i am very optimistic that wehn we decide we're ready (if we ever are) that it will happen in the first month, second at most. we're old (soon to be 33 and 36) so we dont want to be trying forever, for waht will most likely be our only child. that's teh great thing about NFP- not only is it effective for preventing, it can also be very effective for achieving.

meltoine · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_condom-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:93b7bcf3-f7e4-450f-b451-bfcfd499e49bPost:832e439d-2423-4989-b0df-d658d538af66">Re: Condom question</a>:
[QUOTE]I am going to use bc and condoms and NFP.
Posted by ocgirl310[/QUOTE]

<div>Um, that's not possible. NFP is about figuring out when you ovulate. If you are on BC you don't ovulate. It defeats the point. You have to pick one. </div>

ocgirl310 · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_condom-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:93b7bcf3-f7e4-450f-b451-bfcfd499e49bPost:14057f14-c28c-4b42-8ec7-85f17d483883">Re: Condom question</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Condom question : Um, that's not possible. NFP is about figuring out when you ovulate. If you are on BC you don't ovulate. It defeats the point. You have to pick one.
Posted by meltoine[/QUOTE]

Thanks for pointing out the irony in my <u>joke</u>. I was kidding. I said that to poke fun at how cautious I want to be when trying to put off having kids for a while. I apologize for not putting an "lol" or "jk"...

zoot · March 2010

Very interesting (and civilized!) discussion. I am pretty new to the Knot and threads like this make me very happy to be here

All comments were good. Meltoine your post was one of the best written, simple explanations I have ever read. .

Condom question

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