Can we do this? Civil Ceremony BEFORE Catholic Church?

roselyn81 · January 2010

My fiance and I were thinking about having a private (secret) civil ceremony at City Hall—just the two of us—before we do the big Church wedding later in the year. We just think it would be a special private moment for us.

Firstly, does anyone know if this is “allowed”?

I should probably preface this by saying, we are getting married in the Catholic Church and I’m pretty sure this would not be allowed...but would they technically be able to find out? i.e. when we sign marriage licenses later, etc? I’m not sure how that works…. Any information and/or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Jamilynn627 · January 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_ceremony-ideas_civilcity-hall-ceremony-before-catholic-church-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:10Discussion:30f14d8c-1e24-4ff7-a029-943c325ea03cPost:bf5c1e53-d452-40b5-91ba-0f27b3894fac">Re: Civil/City Hall Ceremony BEFORE Catholic Church Wedding??</a>:
[QUOTE]1) If you get married outside of the church, they do not recognize your marriage, unless there are extenuating circumstances (you were married and you later became a catholic or began practicing again, or one of you was terribly ill and unable to come to the church). And since your officiant will have to know that you are already married, you can't really keep it a secret from the church. 2) It is a horrible, hurtful, and selfish thing to have a secret wedding and then do a big fake wedding afterwards without telling your family. You can't eat your cake and haveit to. Either elope and have your nice private ceremony, or don't and then get to share it with friends and family.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

This.

roselyn81 · January 2010

Ouch!

We didn't think of it that way. We just thought it would be a nice thing to have privately. We didn't want to elope and hurt our family, but we did want a private ceremony.

Yes, I see your point...you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either we eloped and hurt our family and friends, or we had a big wedding and missed out on the chance to have something private for the two of us.

MyNameIsNot · January 2010

If you are old enough and mature enough to get married, you are old enough to make a decision and live with the consequences, and explain it to your parents. If you want a private ceremony, have one. You're an adult, and you can explain the importance to your parents. And you can still have the party.

If you are already married, the ceremony in the Catholic church would be a convalidation. They do not usually let you have the white dress and attendants for a convalidation, so it wouldn't be the same thing. Also, they would not help you lie to your friends and family. Even if they did, people would find out, and they'd be really hurt that you lied to them and tried to cover it up with a fake wedding.

megk8oz · January 2010

I'm going to ditto everybody else here. You can't lie to the Catholic Church about being legally married. They will find out, even if you don't 'fess up right away (Because, yes, there will be papers that need to be signed the first time around). And I'm pretty sure if you're "caught", Jesus wouldn't be a happy camper about it.

And having a private ceremony and then a public to-do is pretty selfish. It's pretty much sending the message of "Oh, I didn't think you were good enough to see the real ceremony, but I'd still really like you to come out to give me a present and fawn over how pretty I am". Even if that's not what you're intending to do, that's still the message sent.

DH and I had debating having a "private" ceremony for a while, but even if we'd done that, we still could never imagine getting married without at least our parents and siblings present. It sounds like you want a ceremony that is just you, your FI and whomever is doing the ceremony ... Is there a reason you want something that private beforehand? Why are you tying to hide from people that you're married?

mbcdefg · January 2010

Ditto above.

If you really want something private, and aren't willing to elope, then maybe renew your vows privately on your honeymoon or in a private ceremony on your 1/5/10 year anniversary.

Or meet each other before the ceremony, and/or exchange letters or some personal words to each other.

roselyn81 · January 2010

Meg, we have nothing to hide! We just thought it would be sweet to go through it together with nobody watching. More intimate..? I don't know. But no. There is NOTHING to hide.

Mbc, I like your ideas about renewing vows on our anniversary. I don't think I will want to see FI before the ceremony--I want to save that for walking down the aisle. And I've thought about exchanging letters...I like that idea a lot. Thank you!

MNVegas · January 2010

Wouldn't you still need a witness or 2 depending on your state's requirements?. So there goes the private moment out the window.

duckie1905 · January 2010

Ditto what everyone else has said. If you want a private ceremony then have one in lieu of the big wedding. But, don't lie to your friends and family and the Catholic Church (who will know when you don't bring a marriage license for them to sign) about it.

roselyn81 · January 2010

Thanks, everyone

amandajean36 · January 2010

just as a note to the "catholic church won't allow it"....

i'm not sure that's true. my FI's brother did just want OP is suggesting. they went to city hall and got married, then had a huge (over 300 guests) catholic wedding and reception months later and didn't tell anyone they were already married besides their immediate family. the church knew ahead of time and allowed it - wedding party, white dress, all of it.

so...i think depending on the church, you can technically do it.

but i'm going to agree with everything else all the other posters said. i wouldn't do it, nor would i advise anyone to do this.

hagen.colleen · January 2010

OMG! What catty responses! Just for the record- you can get married civilly before the church ceremony with no consequences. That is what I am doing since our ceremony site is outdoors and Catholic priests will only marry in the church.

It is TOTALLY allowed. My priest already knows our plan and says it happens all the time, so no need to try and hide it from them.

As for holier than thou responses from people like StageManager, ignore them. Someone obviously has a stick up their ***!

roselyn81 · January 2010

Hagancolleen--I thought it was just me who felt a catty vibe

Eek. Thanks for the info! I didn't think that there was that much wrong with what we wanted to do...in fact I think my own parents got married civilly first and then got married in the Catholic Church. I'm not sure that we'll look into it more, but it is nice to consider. Thanks again.

MyNameIsNot · January 2010

You really don't think there's anything wrong with lying to your family and friends and then covering it up with a fake wedding later? Really?

The way people responded here are nothing compared to what your family and friends are going to think when they find out you lied to them and had a fake wedding just to get presents.

roselyn81 · January 2010

OMG, mynameis, WE ARE NOT DOING IT TO GET PRESENTS. Why am I even asking people who don't even know me, for their opinion.

MyNameIsNot · January 2010

Either presents or attention. But people are going to assume you did it for presents.

You are asking strangers because you want an unbiased opinion, and you can't ask anyone that does know you because you intend to lie to them.

roselyn81 · January 2010

WOW.

MyNameIsNot · January 2010

Having a fake wedding and lying to your family about it is pretty much the definition of no class.

I think you've proven that you don't care what anyone thinks, you came here looking for validation.

I have been neither rude nor mean to you. You are simply sensitive because deep down you know what you are doing is wrong. As as Catholic, I'm shocked. You should know that lying is wrong.

banana468 · January 2010

There's a huge difference between how marriages are handled here in the US and in other countries. In European countries, the civil marriage occurs a few days before the religious ceremony - but the guests are well aware of that.

Here, keep in mind that the Catholic Church often finds that a couple doing this willingly is commiting a grave sin and it's not viewed very favorably by all priests as they believe the only wedding ceremony be the one in the Church.

The other aspect is being honest with your guests. If for some reason you do opt for the civil ceremony first, you need to tell your guests what you're doing. It's completely inappropriate to turn something you want to share into a secret.

hagen.colleen · February 2010

I don't know where you got that info because it simply isnt true. I've checked with the church. There is no problem getting married civilly first.

And anyway as far as the telling the truth thing, she never said she wanted to lie to anyone, just that she wasn't sure that if the church knew, if they'd still allow it. READ first before you judge, people.

Secondly I totally understand the sentiment of wanting a private and special ceremony with just the couple.

My parents eloped. Just them and two witnesses on my dad's boat on a lake. And they never told anyone one else. Then had a ceremony two months later for their friends and family. I thought it was romantic.

I guess some girls on here simply think their opinion is gospel. Everyone is different!!

LAGallerina · February 2010

I complete agree and can feel Roselyn on this question. But I should preface that with I really don't care what a church thinks. I think a ceremony is an incredibly intimate moment that I don't think needs to be blessed by family or church. May people have a destination wedding and then have a reception or a second wedding to share the moment with family. It's not 'all about presents.'
Stagemanager14 I think your ideas are archaic and judgmental. I completely agree with Hagen. You are very catty.

duckie1905 · February 2010

Since when is it archaic to tell people the truth?

It is perfectly acceptable to get married privately and have a reception later as long as you tell people the truth and don't drag them through some fake, trumped up, lie of a ceremony. No one was saying that the OP couldn't have a small, private ceremony. Everyone was saying that she gets one or the other. She doesn't get her private ceremony and then a huge ceremony after that. In this case, she would already be married and lying to her family, friends, and the church would not only be heinous, but a waste of everyone's time because they would already be married.

A small private ceremony followed by a reception would've been fine. But that's not what she wanted to do. She wanted to get married alone and then lie to the church, her friends, and her family so she could still have her huge, fancy, church wedding.

Good manners, honestly, and respect are never archaic.

preciosa4 · February 2010

How about this option? Instead of having a civil ceremony (and risking hurt feelings, any church complications or whatever) have a private, non-legal ceremony with just the 2 of you? If the goal is to promise your love and committment to each other in a very intimate setting, then that can easily be done without filing paperwork with the government. (And frankly, civil ceremonies hardly have the reputation for being romantic affairs.) Buy a pretty dress. Light candles. Play music. Gaze into each other's eyes. Be completely alone. File nothing with the government. Then...have your big day with family and friends.

hagen.colleen · February 2010

Stagemanager---

Again I have to say-- READ FIRST!

I never said the church will recognize a ceremony performed off grounds. I said since I am having mine outdoors and therefore not a church-recognized union, I will be getting married in the church AFTER that ourdoor (ie civil) ceremony. One outdoors with a judge, one in the church with a priest. Get it?

And as far as checking with someone goes, no need. I am doing this through my Catholic school I graduated from. And the priest who told me that is actually the monsignor and head of our entire regions Catholic church.

And I've already arranged it all and put all paperwork through. There is no such thing as a Catholic church having rules that put them in the "minority." They all follow universal and quite strict code.

And for those others who seem confused- a civil ceremony is just the term for one not done by a priest/reverend/pastor. It doesn't mean you just go to a courthouse. So it doesn't mean it's not a "romantic affair." Just that it's not a religious one.

banana468 · February 2010

Hagen, it's great that you can do this.

MANY Catholic priests do frown upon this when the desire is for the outside marriage rather than the Catholic one. And if you enter into this union knowingly then you are sinning in the eyes of the Church as you will have consummated your union outside of Holy wedlock.

It's great that your own priest is OK with this, however it's against the rules and technically a no-no; particularly if you're going to go a long period between the two.

And since when is it archaic for telling the truth?

I guess this is the issue with our society. We're supposed to be able to do what we want when we want with no consequences.

Can we do this? Civil Ceremony BEFORE Catholic Church?

Re: Can we do this? Civil Ceremony BEFORE Catholic Church?

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