Polygamy Question

FutureMrsTR · September 2010

My mom just started watching Big Love from Netflix and we were talking about it (and the new TLC show Sisterwives) and she asked me why it was illegal if the man is legally only married to one woman. Why can't he also shack up with as many other women as he wants?

I thought about it and realized I don't really know and I feel kind of dumb asking, but why is it illegal?

danieliza1127 · September 2010

I assumed for the same reasons same sex marriages are - it hurts the sanctity of marriage or some such bullshit.

squirrly · September 2010

Adultery is against the law in many states. I think it is only prosecuted in the military, though.

And it's just not legal to be married to multiple people at one time.

I guess I'm missing the question. Specifically what "it" are you talking about?

Celles · September 2010

Probably for the same reason oral sex is still illegal in some jurisdictions. ^.^

eta - Our laws are a little outdated, and we do love to legislate "morality"...

zippityb · September 2010

I don't know why, but I find it amusing that Nicki is the one who is the handyman.

FutureMrsTR · September 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_polygamy-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:47c1a821-4228-4fc6-b89c-4b0f6b2648daPost:9a575e23-ce1e-454a-a49a-18eb649a5547">Re: Polygamy Question</a>:
[QUOTE]Adultery is against the law in many states. I think it is only prosecuted in the military, though. And it's just not legal to be married to multiple people at one time. I guess I'm missing the question. Specifically what "it" are you talking about?
Posted by squirrly[/QUOTE]

Well, with many "polygamists" I guess they aren't technically committing polygamy because they're only legally married to one woman and the other "marriages" are just within their church and not the state. But I think that's still illegal and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's not and then my confusion is all for nothing.

packlite · September 2010

We LOVE that show, we just watched all of the seasons on netflix too! Anyway, I think its b/c of the law that defines marriage as one man and one woman. The same law that is used to justify why same sex marraiges are illegal, which has lots of religious history. Also polygamy is the practice of mutliple wives, if it were legalized...it would have to be also made legal for women to have multiple husbands, which is polyandry

we also wondering if it had something to do with money, taxes or public aid as we watched the series unfold.

anyway, love the show! cannot wait for the next season

Celles · September 2010

There's a weird law in Tempe, AZ that prohibits more than X number of women from being housemates. (I can't remember the exact number, but it's low -- maybe four or five?) Once upon a time, the idea was to prevent brothels from forming. The modern day implication is that sororities at ASU live in dorms while fraternities get houses.

FutureMrsTR · September 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_polygamy-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:47c1a821-4228-4fc6-b89c-4b0f6b2648daPost:b5c97dc0-9a8a-4823-9403-1baf5a48d3b6">Re: Polygamy Question</a>:
[QUOTE]There's a weird law in Tempe, AZ that prohibits more than X number of women from being housemates. (I can't remember the exact number, but it's low -- maybe four or five?) Once upon a time, the idea was to prevent brothels from forming. The modern day implication is that sororities at ASU live in dorms while fraternities get houses.
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]

That was the way it was at UNCG, too.

ootmother2 · September 2010

pp, in the state of Massachusetts, it' s illegal for more than 4 women to occupy the same dwelling.

otherwise it's prostitution and you can be charged with that.

dumb

FutureMrsTR · September 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_polygamy-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:47c1a821-4228-4fc6-b89c-4b0f6b2648daPost:7990594f-60af-4485-a552-78fae6adc3bf">Re: Polygamy Question</a>:
[QUOTE] Also polygamy is the practice of mutliple wives, if it were legalized...it would have to be also made legal for women to have multiple husbands, which is polyandry :)
Posted by packlite[/QUOTE]

Actually, polygamy covers all multiple spouses, multiple wives is polygyny. But absolutely, if you allow one you have to allow both. Although I don't know why someone would object to one and not the other.

kikibaby · September 2010

Yeah, I'm sure if polygamy was legal, everyone would go out and marry a bunch of illegal immigrants.

Trifury2007 · September 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_polygamy-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:47c1a821-4228-4fc6-b89c-4b0f6b2648daPost:fed9505b-394c-4f50-b301-ec0dd8baac52">Re: Polygamy Question</a>:
[QUOTE]pp, in the state of Massachusetts, it' s illegal for more than 4 women to occupy the same dwelling. otherwise it's prostitution and you can be charged with that. dumb
Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]

Actually, I just read somewhere that MA does not have that law in place. Cannot remember where I read that now though.

NuggetBrain · September 2010

I'm kind of with her, though. If you can only legally be married to one person, than it doesn't matter how many wives show at at the hospital when you're brain dead - the only one who gets to decide is the one that you are legally married to. That means the earliest still-valid marriage license on record. So I'm not sure how polygamy is illegal, when it legally can't even be done.

FutureMrsTR · September 2010

Oh lord, Nugget I want to make out with you. Yeah, I'm really only asking how the guys who has one legal wife and a bunch of live-in girlfriends (for lack of a better term) is breaking the law?

Obviously, someone who is living a double life and has two identities that are each legally married to someone and giving that person benefits is doing something illegal. But that's not what I'm curious about.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · September 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_polygamy-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:47c1a821-4228-4fc6-b89c-4b0f6b2648daPost:9777f5de-3520-414b-ad1d-008db53d83ea">Re: Polygamy Question</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Polygamy Question : Well, with many "polygamists" I guess they aren't technically committing polygamy because they're only legally married to one woman and the other "marriages" are just within their church and not the state. But I think that's still illegal and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's not and then my confusion is all for nothing.
Posted by FutureMrsTR[/QUOTE]

But that's the thing. They aren't technically committing bigamy, which IS illegal, when they are only legally married to one woman. That's WHY they're only legally married to one women. If they could legally marry more than one, they would.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · September 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_polygamy-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:47c1a821-4228-4fc6-b89c-4b0f6b2648daPost:3b2e116f-52c9-44ad-9f96-a959a25b3837">Re: Polygamy Question</a>:
[QUOTE]We talked about this once before. . . marriage confers legal benefits that would be difficult to sort out if there are multiple legal partners. If Hubby is in the hospital, brain dead, and 2 wives differ on pulling the plug, who decides? When he does die, what happens with his estate? His pension? <strong>How many wives does his company-sponsored insurance have to cover?</strong> If he has children with multiple wives, do the non-bilogical mothers who are legally married have any status or standing? I don't really care how many people they're hooking up with. But there are a lot of things that come with being married that would be super tough to sort out. And, if you created another status for those things (like, getting a certificate of polygamy and everybody signs), what does that confer if the above questionable items are removed? As for why it's still against the law - it's probably the brothel laws and/or the adultery laws. Some prosecutors will likely go to lengths to prosecute polygamy.
Posted by squirrly[/QUOTE]

It's my understanding that many sister-wives qualify for government benefits as technically they are single mothers and many don't work.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · September 2010

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's more to avoid social persecution than legal persecution. Except in the case of them marrying underage girls. But even in, say, urban areas of Utah, polygamy is looked down upon. It's not really a popular opinion.

Birdie1483 · September 2010

I've read a few books by women who have "escaped" the polygamist sects. They live off in the middle of nowhere usually so they can do their own thing and not have the government or outside police force bug them. They view outsiders as evil. From what I understand they used to be a little bit more lax in terms of dealing with outsiders, but have recently become more and more secretive with the rise of Warren Jeffs. Those that used to be able to live in Salt Lake City have been ordered to move to the border towns of Colorado City and Hilldale or to the Yearning for Zion ranch in Texas.

Places like Colorado City, Arizona and Hilldale, Utah are completely self sufficient. They have their own church-run schools, their own government, their own police force, etc. They like to do things "their" way. Most are discouraged from talking to outsiders and have rarely left their compound.

And it's true that the sister wives generally live off of welfare, etc because they aren't allowed to work well paying jobs (if at all) and don't have marital benfits.

Yeah, I have a weird fascination with polygamist sects.

squirrly · September 2010

Mery, you read my post out of context. I wasn't asking how do they get by now. I was postulating about if polygamy were legalized, how certain issues would be handled.

PharmacyBride · September 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_polygamy-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:47c1a821-4228-4fc6-b89c-4b0f6b2648daPost:b5c97dc0-9a8a-4823-9403-1baf5a48d3b6">Re: Polygamy Question</a>:
[QUOTE]There's a weird law in Tempe, AZ that prohibits more than X number of women from being housemates. (I can't remember the exact number, but it's low -- maybe four or five?) Once upon a time, the idea was to prevent brothels from forming. The modern day implication is that sororities at ASU live in dorms while fraternities get houses.
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div><div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;line-height:normal;">I can't believe more sororities don't get together and have those stupid laws repelled. I had an amazing 2 years living at my house. If it wasn't for the house- I would felt like I joined a club, not a sorority.<div>
</div><div>Wow- that really must have sucked for you girls : (</div></div></div>

Birdie1483 · September 2010

Lafayette, IN had weird laws about the number of unrelated people that were allowed to live in a house together. I think it was 4 of 5. I'm not sure why, but I heard rumors that it was because of illegal immigrants sleeping 8-10+ people a house. (Thats just what I heard!!)

Luckily, West Lafayette where Purdue was had no such rule. We had some sororities that had 100+ girls in one house. I have some good memories from my sorority but I always said the only person I'd live with after that would be a SO.

kathrynhabibti · September 2010

[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Polygamy Question : I can't believe more sororities don't get together and have those stupid laws repelled. I had an amazing 2 years living at my house. If it wasn't for the house- I would felt like I joined a club, not a sorority. Wow- that really must have sucked for you girls : (
Posted by PharmacyBride[/QUOTE]
That was a rumor at Penn State, too, which supposedly explained why we didn't have sorority houses there, but it's not true:
<a href="http://www.snopes.com/college/halls/brothel.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.snopes.com/college/halls/brothel.asp</a>

MyNameIsNot · September 2010

I think I get what you are asking. I was trying to figure it out a few months ago. Not that I use Nip/Tuck as a moral compass either, but there was a season where Christian and Kimber had a live in extra girlfriend, and everyone was ok with it. They weren't breaking any laws. I don't see how Big Love is really any different, since only the first wife is legally married.

If I remember correctly from when they broke up that commune a few years ago, the big issues were with the kids. A lot of the "women" were getting married at 14, so it was a child abuse issue. I think they were also taking away children from some of the "families" because of neglect.

If you ask me, raising a child in that kind of environment is abuse in and of itself, but I don't think they use my definition. I do think that CPS alleged that there was a lot of abuse/neglect stemming from having 47 kids in one house.

andy71781 · September 2010

Polygamy has been blamed (Alix can correct me if this is incorrect) to a lot of the spreading of HIV in among familes in South Africa.

Its basically an extension of patriarchial b.s. and that is why I don't like it. I don't think that it should be illegal though.

andy71781 · September 2010

Um never mind my earlier post - the skinnier one is the first wife.

Birdie1483 · September 2010

If you guys are interested in the family dynamics, I suggest reading "Escape" by Carolyn Jessop. She was forced to marry a community elder when she was 18. She was finally able to escape when she was in her forties. The amount of abuse that goes on between the man and the wives and between the "better" wives and the "lower" wives is astounding.

Another good book is "Stolen Innocence" by Elissa Wall. She's the girl (woman now) who put Warren Jeffs behind bars.

lisalou402 · September 2010

There's also the LDS that believe in plural marriage, but not the abuse and marrying of the younger girls. Think about how Bill and Barb are not on the compound, nor the dude that works for him ( i forget his name).

This season is going to be insane!

TheCranberry · September 2010

My FI and I were recently talking about this. I don't practice family law, so I'm not sure how prosecution would work for polygamy or if that even exists. Polygamy is illegal in that once you're married, future marriages are not valid so those future marriages wouldn't receive any of the benefits of an actual marriage. I'm not sure that a person with multiple spouses would actually go to jail (absent some other crime).

It would seem silly to put people in jail for that. What's the harm in a married couple living with other men/women who they also consider spouses? No one is going to be prosecuted for having a mistress or for having a child outside of marriage so what is the actual crime if all of those extra people are living together and consider themselves a family?

Now, the case of a man having 2 secret wives is different since he's engaging in fraud, which can have criminal and civil consquences.

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