Black Tie Optional...Groomsmen HELP

mbuckley85 · February 2012

My mom is convinced that in my black tie optional wedding, the guys should only be in black vest/ties. Am I crazy in thinking that it is fine for them to match my girls?

I was planning on having them in black tuxes with three of them having gold vests and the best man having a brown vest (my mother keeps telling me you can't wear brown with black either).

These are my bridesmaids dresses. They are mainly Claret with the ribbon being Harvest Gold on three dresses, and Espresso on my MOH's dress.
http://www.alfredangelo.com/collections/productdisplay.aspx?productID=b693da45-fb86-4cc9-bca4-10b42b002dd3&categoryID=772f03c9-de43-4942-bfa0-da77e21ebd65&pg=2&colorId1=

My fiance, father, father-in-law and ring bearer will all have tuxes with black vests/ties. Also, I want to do long ties over bow ties, because my Fiance has a short neck and is kind of short and stubby and I don't think that a bow tie will be flattering to him.

I need serious help...

AdeleDazeem · February 2012

If you are having a "black tie optional" wedding (which means your wedding is going to be upscale, open bar, etc...) then the groomsmen should be in tuxes. I'd feel totally out of place and think the dress code was misleading if I showed up dressed for a black tie affair (since it was optional and all) and found your groomsmen to be in suits.

ehrbuim · February 2012

I bought from the website：http://www.sharonbridal.co.uk/ is the black dress, I think that is really quite beautiful.

Habs2Hart · February 2012

This is my favourite line from the website:

Black-tie affairs are grownup affairs. As a girl it may have been quaint to coordinate your boyfriend's outfit with your dress color but as a lady you should leave the role of matching accessory to your handbag, not your husband.

In other words, don't play matchy-matchy with your bridemaids and groomsmen. It looks way too prom.

mbuckley85 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_attire-accessories_black-tie-optionalgroomsmen?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:15Discussion:413fd1ad-6320-4619-84ba-5f0b201f6237Post:088509cf-7e4e-4b2b-99cd-ec14da1fa1ff">Re: Black Tie Optional...Groomsmen HELP</a>:
[QUOTE]If you are having a "black tie optional" wedding (which means your wedding is going to be upscale, open bar, etc...) then the groomsmen should be in tuxes. I'd feel totally out of place and think the dress code was misleading if I showed up dressed for a black tie affair (since it was optional and all) and found your groomsmen to be in suits.
Posted by Joy2611[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Oh, there is ABSOLUTELY no question that the men will be in tuxes, even down to our 7 year old ring bearer. Neither of our parents would stand to have the wedding party in suits and frankly, we wouldn't either.

</div>

mbuckley85 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_attire-accessories_black-tie-optionalgroomsmen?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:15Discussion:413fd1ad-6320-4619-84ba-5f0b201f6237Post:08e192ef-18d4-4c2a-b35b-54630fcd2e81">Re: Black Tie Optional...Groomsmen HELP</a>:
[QUOTE]This is my favourite line from the website: Black-tie affairs are grownup affairs. As a girl it may have been quaint to coordinate your boyfriend's outfit with your dress color but as a lady you should leave the role of matching accessory to your handbag, not your husband. In other words, don't play matchy-matchy with your bridemaids and groomsmen. It looks way too prom.
Posted by Habs2Hart[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>THANK YOU! I don't know why I have it in my head that they have to even wear color at all...

</div>

TheDoctor10 · February 2012

Thanks for the nod, ILoveMilkDuds.

OP, please reconsider your "Black Tie Optional" dress code. (Check my reasons in this thread: http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_attire-accessories_black-tie-optional-vent)

Either set your event as "Black Tie" or don't.

Further, take the time to learn a bit about the dress code you're suggesting, and actually follow it yourself. I promise it isn't quite what the tuxedo rental salesperson at MW or Jos. A. Banks told you it is.

On your point about the neckties: you can certainly substitute long black neckties in place of black bowties. Long ties have become more modernly acceptable in black tie attire. Also, need I say that they should all be self-tie and not pre-tied?

The long tie can also provide some visual elongation to a short stocky gent. As a shorter gent myself, I find it is of crucial importance to keep my clothes well-fitting. I recommend you ensure your FI's suit fit him like a glove: little to no break in his trousers hem; jacket just long enough to cover his butt; jacket sleeves hitting at his wristbone. Keep the whole thing well-fitted (but not hipster slim) and he'll look like a million bucks. You may want to consider avoiding vests. The deep v-cut of a 1-or 2-button jacket sans vest will provide elongation, whereas the vest will cut it off. If your gent were on the slimmer side, then the vest would be ok.

Now, the tough part regarding fit is that you'll be hard-pressed to get that sort of tailoring out of a rental. Rental suits/tuxedos are generally cut like a box and haphazardly hemmed. They're not going to tailor the waist/shoulders/chest/legs for your rental- just the pants and sleeves hems.

If it were me, I'd nix the tuxedos and put them all in well-fitting, tailored suits they either owned themselves or purchased on their own dime. Every man has his own personality/style/body type that should be reflected in his clothing. Set a level of formality and some elements to tie them all together like neckties, pocket squares, or lapel flowers, then let them choose navy or charcoal grey suits. I promise you won't regret foregoing rental tuxedos.

LoveMuffins · February 2012

We had a black-tie optional wedding and the Groomsmen wore matching vests and ties to the BMs. I've never understood the prom-y thing, tbh... I don't think they need to match, but I don't think it's a bad look either.

I'm not a huge fan of brown with black, but it doesn't not match either, and it sounds to me like your Mom is making up weird rules to get the look she wants. This is one of the few areas where it really is your decision, 100%, and as long as it all fits in the budget that the GMs gave you, it's up to you and your FI what color vests they're in.

You can check out my Married Bio (link in siggy) if you want to see matching vests & ties to BM dresses =P

TheDoctor10 · February 2012

(First, sorry if this double-posts. I think TK ate my post!)

Thanks for the nod, Duds.

OP, please reconsider your "Black Tie Optional" dress code. (Check my reasons in this thread: http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_attire-accessories_black-tie-optional-vent)

Either set your event as "Black Tie" or don't.

Further, take the time to learn a bit about the dress code you're suggesting, and actually follow it yourself. I promise it isn't quite what the tuxedo rental salesperson at MW or Jos. A. Banks told you it is.

On your point about the neckties: you can certainly substitute long black neckties in place of black bowties. Long ties have become more modernly acceptable in black tie attire. Also, need I say that they should all be self-tie and not pre-tied?

The long tie can also provide some visual elongation to a short stocky gent. As a shorter gent myself, I find it is of crucial importance to keep my clothes well-fitting. I recommend you ensure your FI's suit fit him like a glove: little to no break in his trousers hem; jacket just long enough to cover his butt; jacket sleeves hitting at his wristbone. Keep the whole thing well-fitted (but not hipster slim) and he'll look like a million bucks. You may want to consider avoiding vests. The deep v-cut of a 1-or 2-button jacket sans vest will provide elongation, whereas the vest will cut it off. If your gent were on the slimmer side, then the vest would be ok.

Now, the tough part regarding fit is that you'll be hard-pressed to get that sort of tailoring out of a rental. Rental suits/tuxedos are generally cut like a box and haphazardly hemmed. They're not going to tailor the waist/shoulders/chest/legs for your rental- just the pants and sleeves hems.

If it were me, I'd nix the tuxedos and put them all in well-fitting, tailored suits they either owned themselves or purchased on their own dime. Every man has his own personality/style/body type that should be reflected in his clothing. Set a level of formality and some elements to tie them all together like neckties, pocket squares, or lapel flowers, then let them choose navy or charcoal grey suits. I promise you won't regret foregoing rental tuxedos.

Mimmer04 · February 2012

To answer only the questions you asked and not offer opinions on anything else...

In my opinion based on the weddings I've been to and the tons of pictures I have seen, you can have the groomsman in whatever color vest/ties/cumberbunds you want. You can have them match or be all different. Brown is fine. It might not be the best color for a tux, but there is nothing wrong with it. Long ties with tuxes have been acceptable for at least the last 10-15 years. You are right. You're Mom is wrong.

To prove the point, you can just look for pictures of real weddings on the Knot or anywhere else and show her tons of examples of non-black accent pieces with tuxes.

lopezalonso · February 2012

Black tie to me means that the Groom and the GM will be wearing black tuxes and probable a flower matching the BM on the lapel. Sorry but I think I agree with your mom. That's just my opinion, it's your wedding. You should do what you want.

mbuckley85 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_attire-accessories_black-tie-optionalgroomsmen?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:15Discussion:413fd1ad-6320-4619-84ba-5f0b201f6237Post:7407ef18-298c-425a-b416-82711acd3e23">Re: Black Tie Optional...Groomsmen HELP</a>:
[QUOTE](First, sorry if this double-posts. I think TK ate my post!) Thanks for the nod, Duds. OP, please reconsider your "Black Tie Optional" dress code. (Check my reasons in this thread: <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_attire-accessories_black-tie-optional-vent)">http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_attire-accessories_black-tie-optional-vent)</a> Either set your event as "Black Tie" or don't. Further, take the time to learn a bit about the dress code you're suggesting, and actually follow it yourself. I promise it isn't quite what the tuxedo rental salesperson at MW or Jos. A. Banks told you it is. On your point about the neckties: you can certainly substitute long black neckties in place of black bowties. Long ties have become more modernly acceptable in black tie attire. Also, need I say that they should all be self-tie and not pre-tied? The long tie can also provide some visual elongation to a short stocky gent. As a shorter gent myself, I find it is of crucial importance to keep my clothes well-fitting. I recommend you ensure your FI's suit fit him like a glove: little to no break in his trousers hem; jacket just long enough to cover his butt; jacket sleeves hitting at his wristbone. Keep the whole thing well-fitted (but not hipster slim) and he'll look like a million bucks. You may want to consider avoiding vests. The deep v-cut of a 1-or 2-button jacket sans vest will provide elongation, whereas the vest will cut it off. If your gent were on the slimmer side, then the vest would be ok. Now, the tough part regarding fit is that you'll be hard-pressed to get that sort of tailoring out of a rental. Rental suits/tuxedos are generally cut like a box and haphazardly hemmed. They're not going to tailor the waist/shoulders/chest/legs for your rental- just the pants and sleeves hems. If it were me, I'd nix the tuxedos and put them all in well-fitting, tailored suits they either owned themselves or purchased on their own dime. Every man has his own personality/style/body type that should be reflected in his clothing. Set a level of formality and some elements to tie them all together like neckties, pocket squares, or lapel flowers, then let them choose navy or charcoal grey suits. I promise you won't regret foregoing rental tuxedos.
Posted by TheDoctor10[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>How do you convey that it is completely unacceptable to show up in less than a suit? My way of doing this would be calling it "Black Tie Optional" and hoping that people get that they have the option of wearing a tux if they would like, but suits are also appropriate and for females, beach dresses are not appropriate but long dresses/black dresses are okay. I do not want to call it "black tie" because I don't want everyone to feel like they have to rent a tux if they do not own one.</div><div>
</div>

TheDoctor10 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_attire-accessories_black-tie-optionalgroomsmen?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:15Discussion:413fd1ad-6320-4619-84ba-5f0b201f6237Post:21d723da-85ea-4788-b531-a9ec610bb62d">Re: Black Tie Optional...Groomsmen HELP</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black Tie Optional...Groomsmen HELP : How do you convey that it is completely unacceptable to show up in less than a suit?
Posted by mbuckley85[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>That's an etiquette question a lot of people wrestle with. The majority of people will tell you that the only time stipulating a dress code on an invitation is ok is when you're hosting a Black or White Tie affair. In those cases, protocol requires it. </div><div>
</div><div>For other less formal events, there are enough context clues to give guests the hint:</div><div>
</div><div>-- time of day</div><div>-- venue (indoor v. outdoor/country club v. fire hall/etc.)</div><div>-- "theme" of wedding</div><div>-- formality of invitations</div><div>-- type of dinner (plated v. buffet)</div><div><div>
</div><div>Aside from that, you can rely on word of mouth. Most guests will ask around to find out what others are wearing. There's also a bit of trust you need to put in your guests that they'll wear something appropriate.</div><div>
</div>If, in the end, your concern over what your guests are going to wear really eats at you, the furthest I'd go is putting a polite, discreet, but clear note on your wedding website (if you have one). For many people, that's too far. It's up to you, really.</div>

mbuckley85 · February 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_attire-accessories_black-tie-optionalgroomsmen?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:15Discussion:413fd1ad-6320-4619-84ba-5f0b201f6237Post:e058bfc7-25fe-4909-a248-5bb94b55364e">Re: Black Tie Optional...Groomsmen HELP</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black Tie Optional...Groomsmen HELP : That's an etiquette question a lot of people wrestle with. The majority of people will tell you that the only time stipulating a dress code on an invitation is ok is when you're hosting a Black or White Tie affair. In those cases, protocol requires it. For other less formal events, there are enough context clues to give guests the hint: -- time of day -- venue (indoor v. outdoor/country club v. fire hall/etc.) -- "theme" of wedding -- formality of invitations -- type of dinner (plated v. buffet) Aside from that, you can rely on word of mouth. Most guests will ask around to find out what others are wearing. There's also a bit of trust you need to put in your guests that they'll wear something appropriate. If, in the end, your concern over what your guests are going to wear really eats at you, the furthest I'd go is putting a polite, discreet, but clear note on your wedding website (if you have one). For many people, that's too far. It's up to you, really.
Posted by TheDoctor10[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Once I sit down and look at it, there are only a handful of people I am concerned about. These same people would probably not even understand what "black tie/black tie optional" means. I feel like certain members of my father's family won't get any clues either though. We are having an evening wedding at an indoor historic building with a sit-down meal. The invitations will be formal in look. I just get upset when I think about people showing up in khaki's or beach dresses. I should just resign myself to the fact that it is going to happen.

</div>

bbashaw · March 2012

Had to reply to this one - in the 21st century, "Black tie" does not mean that the ties are black any more than "white tie" means that the ties are white.

Black tie means formal wear, no tail coats. Colored ties, vests, and cumberbunds are fine, as long as everyone is in a tuxuedo or similar formal wear (not a grey suit or some other approximation of "business attire"). They must also refrain from wearing tailcoats, top hats, or other "supper with the queen" style clothing.

And, to answer some of the naysayers- I don't know why you would ever consider not having them match! What will the pictures look like if the MOH is in a brown sash and the BM is in electric blue? Or even in black?

futuremrsbruno · June 2012

Well you weren't kidding when you said you asked on other boards... or that you need serious help.

I do find it interesting that the story keeps changing/being added to on each board you go on.

http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_guest-attire-4

Take the advise of the 162 posts on that link and get over it. It's not that important.

Black Tie Optional...Groomsmen HELP

Re: Black Tie Optional...Groomsmen HELP

Choose Another Board

Search Boards